Author Topic: Firist shedding of Blood  (Read 1878 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Firist shedding of Blood
« on: May 17, 2010, 12:33:42 AM »
I was taught that the first shedding of blood was Gen.3:21 when Lord God made coats of skins. Now 35 yrs
later the Lord is having me question that.. I read no blood shedding in that verse. Now this all came about
when the I was reading Heb 11:4  by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain,
through which he was testified to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it,
he being dead, doth yet speak.
It was the word sacrifice that the Lord said look! SoI looked up the word "sacrifice,"G2378 sacrifice
(the act or the victim, literally or figuratively): from G2380A primary verb; properly to rush (breathe hard,
 blow, smoke), that is, (by implication)
to sacrifice (properly by fire, but generally); by extension to immolate (slaughter for any purpose):
- kill, (do) sacrifice, slay.
The word sacrifice has all the implications of blood letting or shedding.
There had been no such enactment of any such when I read the account, so I dutifully went back and
read the account in Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and  to his wife coats of skin.       
A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application: - accomplish, advance, appoint, apt,be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, + displease, do, (ready) dress (-ed), (put in) execute (-ion), exercise, fashion, + feast, [fight-] ing man, + finish, fit, fly, follow, fulfil, furnish, gather, get, go about, govern, grant, great, + hinder, hold ([a feast]), X indeed, + be industrious, + journey, keep, labour, maintain, make, be meet, observe, be occupied, offer, + officer, pare, bring (come) to pass, perform, practise, prepare, procure, provide, put, requite, X sacrifice, serve, set, shew, X sin, spend, X surely, take, X thoroughly, trim, X very, + vex, be [warr-] ior, work (-man), yield, use.
Yes the word sacrifice is there, but there is absolutely no evidence of any shedding of blood taking place.
I, as anyone would have to assume there was a shedding of blood. It is the same make= to do or make of Gen.1:26, 2:18
and most of the makes I looked up, no blood was involved. Coats= H3801  "to cover" to (be) bare:
 -  be made naked.  fromH3802  to clothe of skin  H5785  skin (as naked);
 by implication hide, leather: - hide, leather, skin. And doth clothe them..clothe= H3847 A primitive root; properly wrap around,
Gen.3:21 And Jehovah God doth make to the man and his wife covers of skin, that wrap around.
Now I know that folks will consider me a little off, but this is how I can understand this verse.
But there is more because this began about the teaching that those coats of skin were the first shedding
of blood and that word sacrifice.  I have more thoughts of the coats of skin, but I'm trying to stay
on the path of the first blood shedding.
Now perhaps it was a different church I was going to, I cant say, but I was told that the first shedding
of blood was when Cain slew Abel. So, I went back to Genesis, the Lord has shown me much in
that book, and He has put this great desire for me to understand how this all began rather than just
some story to tell in Sunday school.
I was reading the KJV at the time so I will use it and the YLT to show my reasoning.
Gen 4:3  And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an
offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4  And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD
had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:3  And it cometh to pass at the end of days that Cain bringeth from the fruit of the ground a present
to Jehovah;
Gen 4:4  and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones;
and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present,

Offering H4503=From an unused root meaning to apportion, that is, bestow; a donation; euphemistically
tribute; specifically a sacrificial offering (usually bloodless and voluntary): - gift, oblation, (meat) offering, present, sacrifice.
Again I have sought some witness to "blood shedding" and I find none. There has been no shedding of blood
in the clothing of the man and his wife, nor is there been a shedding of blood in the "offerings" of
Cain and Abel. When speaking of Abel's firstlings of the flock and "fat thereof of the fat ones," we
again can assume the shedding of blood but what we find is that this is a expression of the "best of
the flock."   The "fat thereof or fat ones" H2459 From an unused root meaning to be fat; fat, hence the
richest or choice part: -  X best, fat (-ness), X finest, grease, marrow.

I am getting no where with this first shedding of blood as I have been taught. I know there are those
who will disagree and who know much more of the Bible than I, but I have not seen the first shedding
of blood in either Gen. 3:21 nor Gen. 4:3. The Lord had me to go back to Heb. 11:4 where the Lord had
began to shed light.

Heb.11:4

(ASV)  By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he had
witness borne to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness in respect of his gifts: and through it
he being dead yet speaketh.

(KJV)  By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness
that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

(YLT)  by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified to be
righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak.

Gen 4:4

(ASV)  And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And Jehovah had
respect unto Abel and to his offering:

(KJV)  And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had
respect unto Abel and to his offering:

(YLT)  and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones;
and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present,

What did the writer in Hebrews mean that Abel offered/brought a more excellent sacrifice when there was no
shedding of blood. The only shedding of blood that I had read was when Cain slew his brother Abel.......
Thats when the Lord started to shake me.  I had done some study on the names of Cain and Abel years
ago so I looked them up again.
Cain..H7013  fixity; a lance (as striking fast): - spear H6969 A primitive root; to strike a musical note, that is, chant or wail (at a funeral): - lament, mourning woman.

Abel...H1892 emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory;  vain from
H1891 A primitive root; to be vain in act, word, or expectation; specifically to lead astray: -
be (become, make) vain.

What was revealed to me took breath, but fits so well into how I can understand the
beginning and how I am here now. Cain, by the names definition is something that will use force
even kill to move forward.
Abel on the other side is empty, of what I am not sure, Abel is also transitory.
transitory: of a passing nature; not enduring or permanent; temporary, fleeting, or
ephemeral; transient.(Web. New World College Dict.)

What I have found for myself is the first shedding of blood, when Cain slew his brother Abel.   And
what is important is that I believe from how I read Heb.11:4 is that Abel was a willing sacrifice. A
willing sacrifice to begin what man is still doing today. Killing his brother out of jealousy and envy.

Heb 11:4  by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified
to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak.

The witness to this sacrifice of faith by Abel who was empty of an thought of malice, envy, jealousy and who was transitory, temorary.
sacrificed himself in the purpose of Jehovah and His reason; and we can read how God testifying of his gifts 
Gen 4:10  And He saith, `What hast thou done?
the voice of thy brother's blood is crying unto Me from the ground;

This better sacrifice that is spoke of is brought forth in the teaching of the Kingdom,  the
Gospel;  that Jesus,  when He offered Himself in faith, that His Father would accept
the better sacrifice. That is the Good News the Apostles and Paul and now those of
us who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying, His blood is life and He offered the
BETTER SACRIFICE.
Joh 15:13  greater love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;

Gal 2:20  with Christ I have been crucified, and live no more do I, and Christ doth live in me;
and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God, who did love me
and did give himself for me;

Rev 1:5  and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood,

Joh 3:16  for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.




Father I thank you for Your Word and Your Love.  Peace and Love Through Jesus.

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2010, 01:44:56 AM »
"Growing fat on dishonest profits; being puffed up on milk and animal tissue."

Insoluble in water, but a great insulator against heat loss!

peacemaker

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2010, 02:25:59 AM »

Having never been taught this; it is the way that I understood it the first time I read Genesis as an adult:
That the skins that the Lord clothed them with were the first human skins, made to clothe the Creation after it's fall from the spiritual realm.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2010, 04:18:19 AM »

Having never been taught this; it is the way that I understood it the first time I read Genesis as an adult:
That the skins that the Lord clothed them with were the first human skins, made to clothe the Creation after it's fall from the spiritual realm.

I wished I had been.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2010, 05:00:54 AM »
Jesus himself cites Abel as the first righteous blood shed upon the earth..


 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

--Mat 23


But, if blood=spirit, the first shed blood is Adam's.


7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

--Gen 3


'This cup which is poured out FOR YOU is the new covenant in my blood.'" Luke 22

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 05:38:14 AM »
"Coats of many colors." 

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 06:22:25 AM »
Blood in the flesh is akin to the Spirit of God.
It must be poured out upon creation for us to partake of true life from everlasting to everlasting.
The very first drop of Blood that poured from Jesus Christ set in motion a torrent of activity the world had/has never seen.
His blood is SO effectual that all creation thirsts for it.
There is not an atom created that does not yearn for its Creator.
A man grows weary from the day he is born.
His blood full of staunch iron, turned red.
But we are blessed, from the beginning, awake Sons of God white as snow!
For the Bread is broken and the Wine is poured.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 06:36:01 AM »

Having never been taught this; it is the way that I understood it the first time I read Genesis as an adult:
That the skins that the Lord clothed them with were the first human skins, made to clothe the Creation after it's fall from the spiritual realm.

Am I to understand then that in Gen. 2 till Gen.3:6  it is speaking of a non-physical or spiritual realm that the man and the woman were in?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 06:47:03 AM »


Micah,
Seek, knock, ASK ASK ASK the LORD GOD YOUR FATHER TO TEACH YOU HIS WAYS.
KNOW HIM, KNOW HIM, KNOW HIM, AS YOUR FRIEND.
Faith
Faith
Faith
Cry unto God with every fiber of your being.
Worship the Lord with every second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year, decade, century of your life and know HIM!
And He will express Himself through us.
This trip we are on is not about us! No, not at all. It's all about Him! He desires a FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SQ

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 07:16:50 AM »


Micah,
Seek, knock, ASK ASK ASK the LORD GOD YOUR FATHER TO TEACH YOU HIS WAYS.
KNOW HIM, KNOW HIM, KNOW HIM, AS YOUR FRIEND.
Faith
Faith
Faith
Cry unto God with every fiber of your being.
Worship the Lord with every second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year, decade, century of your life and know HIM!
And He will express Himself through us.
This trip we are on is not about us! No, not at all. It's all about Him! He desires a FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BEAUTIFUL!!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 07:23:49 AM »

Yes, SQ, beautiful beyond words.
The Song of Solomon barely scratches the surface.
And THAT is the best that written language can do to express this Love Story.
Jesus, Himself, is the physical expression of the Love of God for His Creation.
He SOOOOOOOO loves this Creation of His that He actually became IT! HIMSELF!
Oh the pride of man! So futile, it's laughable!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 07:51:21 AM »



You Are! Everyday filled with hope!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X43XXpItGk0

Offline Molly

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2010, 08:23:02 AM »
Quote from: Micah
the
BETTER SACRIFICE.


4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
--Heb  11


What was the better sacrifice that Abel offered?


4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

--Gen 4


Why is this the better sacrifice?  What does it represent?

 
John 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!


How did Abel know this?

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

--Heb 11


 "the substance"

G5287
ὑπόστασις
hupostasis
hoop-os'-tas-is
From a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support), that is, (figuratively) concretely essence, or abstractly assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident, person, substance.


What did Abel have faith in?


...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

--rev 13:8




19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

--Rom 8

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2010, 09:03:30 AM »
 :cloud9: Just a comment here that He showed me on the fat. Fat was an offering. Fat is that which is above what is needed, and it was an offering to God. Fat is like congealed oil. Fire makes it give off light and heat, like a lamp. Our God is a consuming fire. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2010, 03:00:58 PM »
Quote from: Micah
the
BETTER SACRIFICE.


4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
--Heb  11


What was the better sacrifice that Abel offered?   Something with life

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

--Gen 4


Why is this the better sacrifice?  What does it represent?    Life

 
John 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!


How did Abel know this?   God's Spirit

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

--Heb 11


 "the substance"

G5287
ὑπόστασις
hupostasis
hoop-os'-tas-is
From a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support), that is, (figuratively) concretely essence, or abstractly assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident, person, substance.


What did Abel have faith in?


...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

--rev 13:8




19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

--Rom 8
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 03:03:07 PM »

Having never been taught this; it is the way that I understood it the first time I read Genesis as an adult:
That the skins that the Lord clothed them with were the first human skins, made to clothe the Creation after it's fall from the spiritual realm.

Am I to understand then that in Gen. 2 till Gen.3:6  it is speaking of a non-physical or spiritual realm that the man and the woman were in?
   I should have stated Are you speaking of a non-physical or spiritual realm...?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2010, 05:01:55 AM »
Here is a response from another site to the same post I made here about first
shedding of blood. :sigh:



 I am very sure there was A LOT of blood shed to get those coats of skin!

Gen. 3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Think about this for a moment;

Adam and Eve were ALREADY clothed. I'm sure you can recall seeing native people of many lands clothed in grass, leaves ect.!

But because of this;

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

God had to do this;

Gen.3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 12:03:58 AM »
Micah said

What I have found for myself is the first shedding of blood, when Cain slew his brother Abel.   And
what is important is that I believe from how I read Heb.11:4 is that Abel was a willing sacrifice. A
willing sacrifice to begin what man is still doing today. Killing his brother out of jealousy and envy.

Heb 11:4  by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified
to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak.


Altho I believe blood was shed to get the skins(a revelation to Adam and Eve perhaps).....

And blood was shed in Abels offering (a testimony that He was a prophet, as Jesus taught, who foresaw the sacrifice of Messiah).....

And while Abels blood was certainly the first blood of man to be shed...

I believe this statement you made about the nature of Adams martyrdom is wonderful and truly true, and worthy of great appreciation regardless of any other details.    Peace, John
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 07:16:07 AM »
The Lord Bless us! Thank you.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 07:13:48 PM »
oops i meant Abels martyrdom :o) peace-
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Firist shedding of Blood
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 08:20:14 AM »
I new that and He continues to Bless and Bless.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.