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Offline lookingup

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Faith as Gift of God
« on: December 24, 2009, 07:37:53 PM »
I get daily verses to ponder from the Berean. Today I looked at other verses available on other pages and came across this:

Faith as Gift of God

John 6:44 
Not a single person can come to God for salvation unless God draws him through Jesus Christ. Saving faith is a very special faith, existing in an individual only because of a miraculous gift from God. It is not generated internally by logical human reason, common sense, or human experience. If faith were not a graciously and freely given gift of God, but rather our own internally generated response to hearing the gospel, God would be indebted to us. In other words, He would owe us because we, on our own, provided the faith to begin and continue in His way.

Notice the conversation Jesus had just moments before what is recorded in John 6:44:
"Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you. . . ." Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." Therefore they said to Him, "What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do?" (John 6:27-30)

Jesus clearly says that believing in the One God sent—Jesus Christ—is God's work! He clarifies this in verse 44, declaring that God is that specific belief's Originator and Source; otherwise, we would not have the faith of which He speaks. As usual, the Jews did not completely understand.
John W. Ritenbaugh


 These verses and comments really stuck out and sent a flurry of thoughts thru my itty bitty mind.

Particulary this one:
"As usual, the Jews did not completely understand".

The thought  that immediately crossed my itty bitty was that the church today doesn't get it either, for they teach it is up to the individual to make the decision to believe


It makes me sing when something just jumps out at me, that testifies to the WONDERFUL God and Saviour we have. I wish, hope and pray that someday ALL will come to the knowledge of the truth

If any one would like to read more from the website the address is: http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1694

Also wanted to wish to all a wonderful and Merry Christmas

 :bigGrin:

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 08:46:50 PM »
This is why I printed out this for some friends of mine, it explains who humans were lied to to believe that it is in our hands to be saved, and that is the lie...

Saved? Born Again? was you or not you who made it happen????????
Jesus' Faith or Yours -- Who's  ?[/b][/color]
K.J.V.                Rom. 3:22
   Even the righteousness of God which is by Faith of Jesus Christ…

N.I.V. :Shoot:
   The righteousness from God comes through Faith in Jesus Christ…
This is just a plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :banana:
   A righteousness of God through Jesus Christs' Faith.(E ph. 2.8  Too –through Jesus' Faith)

Gal. 2:16

K.J.V.
   Knowing the a man is not justified by the works of the law, But by the faith of Jesus Christ, even when we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we be justified by the faith of Christ.

N.I.V.  :Shoot:
   Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but( by faith in) Jesus Christ.  So we too have put our faith in Jesus Christ that we may be justified by faith in Jesus Christ.  This is a plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :trampoline:
   Having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ….(His Faith Not Ours…)

Phil. 3.9
K.J.V.
   And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law, But that which is through the faith of Christ, ( Who's ?) the righteousness which is of God by faith. ( JC'S Faith    NOT ours).

N.I.V. :Shoot:
   And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ the righteousness that  comes from God and is by faith…This is another Plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :rocker
   And be found in Him, not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith,( J.C.'s Faith)
Gal. 2:20
K.J.V.
   I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God
N.I.V. :Shoot:
   I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the son of God=Plain Lie
C.L.N.T.V. :banana:
   With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is of the son of God.

Lee Damboise II asks you to really check out how differant these Holy Books are written, one teaching deception one teaching truth. Can YOU see it......

martincisneros

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2009, 09:06:39 AM »
Well, people don't take the phrase "gift of God" literally enough.  Additionally, when the Scriptures are calling us to the faith of Christ, it's contrasting the priestly systems rather than asserting a lackadaisical system of indulgence of the flesh or that we're indulged in our sloth.  Paul's Gospel from Romans to Philemon is a sanctification unto obedience.  The priesthoods are being contrasted when it's talking about the difference between the works of the law via the priesthood of Aaron and the principles and precepts of a modified Torah that takes into account Christ Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchezedec in the idea of the "faith of God" or the "faith of Christ."  The New Covenant that we're adopted into as sons of Abraham is actually tougher to walk out by faith than the Old Covenant.  It's not talking about something that Christ does in our behalf in the particular places where it's talking about the faith of Christ or the faith of God. 

It's talking about our entering in by faith into the nature of Christ Jesus as our salvation and receiving everything for our anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, ministries, and relationships.  Again, the references to the faith of Christ are statements of contrast with the Aaronic priesthood and have nothing to do with an easy salvation.  Broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life and there are few that find it.  And I understand the atonement.  I'm talking about the difference being drawn between the works of the law and the faith of Christ.  He exercises His part of the Covenant and we exercise our part of the Covenant 'til we're blessed so that we're a blessing to all of the nations of the earth.  And He's the guarantee that sin will never cause us to fall short if we'll keep the Written Word in our heart, mouth, and actions until every thought is brought captive to the obedience of Christ and every care is cast upon God.  But again, it's a process of greater diligence than was ever prescribed by Deuteronomy or Leviticus to know the life of a son of God.

martincisneros

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2009, 09:16:56 AM »
I hope I wrote that with enough clarity. I originally had the above written with much greater clarity and much shorter in notepad, but accidentally lost it and every computer trick I knew wouldn't bring it back. roflol  So, had to try to reconstruct it and lengthen it to try to clarify but lost that original breath that had brought it and had to try to bring back the concepts I'd written mentally, and I hate doing that, but I felt the points were too important to wait another year or two to be able to comment on.

Jerm

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2009, 03:33:51 PM »
This is why I printed out this for some friends of mine, it explains who humans were lied to to believe that it is in our hands to be saved, and that is the lie...

Saved? Born Again? was you or not you who made it happen????????
Jesus' Faith or Yours -- Who's  ?[/b][/color]
K.J.V.                Rom. 3:22
   Even the righteousness of God which is by Faith of Jesus Christ…

N.I.V. :Shoot:
   The righteousness from God comes through Faith in Jesus Christ…
This is just a plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :banana:
   A righteousness of God through Jesus Christs' Faith.(E ph. 2.8  Too –through Jesus' Faith)

Gal. 2:16

K.J.V.
   Knowing the a man is not justified by the works of the law, But by the faith of Jesus Christ, even when we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we be justified by the faith of Christ.

N.I.V.  :Shoot:
   Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but( by faith in) Jesus Christ.  So we too have put our faith in Jesus Christ that we may be justified by faith in Jesus Christ.  This is a plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :trampoline:
   Having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ….(His Faith Not Ours…)

Phil. 3.9
K.J.V.
   And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the Law, But that which is through the faith of Christ, ( Who's ?) the righteousness which is of God by faith. ( JC'S Faith    NOT ours).

N.I.V. :Shoot:
   And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ the righteousness that  comes from God and is by faith…This is another Plain Lie

C.L.N.T.V. :rocker
   And be found in Him, not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith,( J.C.'s Faith)
Gal. 2:20
K.J.V.
   I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God
N.I.V. :Shoot:
   I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the son of God=Plain Lie
C.L.N.T.V. :banana:
   With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is of the son of God.

Lee Damboise II asks you to really check out how differant these Holy Books are written, one teaching deception one teaching truth. Can YOU see it......


Awesome post Lee.  It truly is the faith/faithfulness of Christ which brings our salvation and NOTHING on our part.  The faith which we do have is merely a gift from God which reveals to us what He has already done.  I use to have such a hard time with this concept but now, thanks to God, I see it loud and clear  :bigGrin:

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2009, 12:22:30 PM »
Quote
If faith were not a graciously and freely given gift of God, but rather our own internally generated response to hearing the gospel, God would be indebted to us. In other words, He would owe us because we, on our own, provided the faith to begin and continue in His way.
-Profound.

I'm doing a search through the Amplified version's use of the word "freely," such as here:

[All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus (Rom. 3:24).

God's forgiveness is also given FREELY, something which is foreign to traditional Christian teaching:

Col. 2:13
And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions

and Col 3:13
Be gentle and forbearing with one another and, if one has a difference (a grievance or complaint) against another, readily pardoning each other; even as the Lord has [freely] forgiven you, so must you also [forgive].

Blessings and Merry Christmas to all,
Brian

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 02:56:22 PM »
The New Nature
Spiritual not Carnal
     The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (our new nature) supersedes the Law of Sin and Death, our old carnal nature.  Every life has a law.  Adam, our carnal nature, has a life law that constantly brings us into sin and death.  Just like a bird sings and flies, and a dog barks, because it is their Law of Life.  You cannot defy a law unless it is superseded by a higher law.  Take the law of gravity, for instance.  You can't not defy the law of gravity.  If you get on a building and jump off, the law of gravity is going to pull you down.
          You cannot live out of Adam without the law of Sin and Death pulling you down.  I don't care how strong your desires for God are, I don't care how bad you want Adam to be conformed into Christ----He cannot be!  The law of his life will continually pull you down when he tries to be godly.  It was designed that way, because in the Tabernacles realm there is no place for carnality, none!  Even in the Old testament, it said, "No man can see God and Live…                  ( Ex.33:20).  The moment that Christ begins to appear within you, you see that Adam is dead.  And when you realize that, then you understand the scriptures that say, "And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming (2 Th. 2:8 )  He destroys that Law of Sin and Death that is continually pulling you down and not allowing you to operate in the realm of spirit. 
The Law of the Spirit of His life raises you above the law of sin and death.  The only way you can defy the law of gravity is to get into a higher law, the law of lift.  An airplane can defy the law of gravity.  When you begin to enter into Tabernacles, the law of His Life Supersedes the Law of Sin and Death.
The Concordant New Testament Version

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2009, 03:09:53 PM »
The Gift of Salvation !   NO POOF[/b][/color]

      Discover for yourself what Scriptures actually teach about the work of Christ.  There is one thing most hold in common: the confidence that man can use his own " Positive Volition" or "Free Will" to accept Christ and get himself "saved" .
   More than a century ago a great man of God, A. P. Adams, penned the following: "I wish to add a word further in regard to the Salvation of ALL men, suggested by the following extract which I clipped from one of my exchanges.  The extract is as follows: The Rev. B.W. Ward, the popular Boston evangelist, and efficient superintendent of the Bleeker St. Mission.  Thus beautifully illustrates the Gift of Salvation: A friend of mine invited me into a jewelry store and asked the clerk for samples of their pocket knives. Placing the price of he best one  alongside of it, on the counter, he said, Ward, I want to make you a little present. There's a knife and there is the price of it, make your choice. Take which one you will as a momento from me.  ( Just like mike saying with a dollar bill in hand, just reach out and take it.) Now, said the evangelist, whose knife was that while it lay there on the counter? It wasn't mine. It would become mind by my deciding to accept it; but without such an act on my part it was not for me. So of salvation. Jesus has paid the price, but the sinner must decide whether or not he will reach forth and take it before it becomes his.  ( Now is this what Your Religion Teaches ?)

   In this extract it will be seen that the salvation of the individual is made to depend upon his own decision. THE SINNER MUST DECIDE, and as he decides so will his future destiny be to all eternity.  Thus ONE'S salvation is practically made to depend on one's self.  God and Christ have done or are doing their part and now they simply wait for the sinner's decision.  By the way, how long did God wait for the ' decision ' of Saul of Tarsus when [ it pleased God to call him ?]

Most people, however, would accept the above extract as a correct presentation of the case, and would assent thereto without any hesitation. But there is a fatal defect in the illustration. The case of the one choosing the knife or {Michael's and Dave's story of the dollar bill } is NOT PARALLEL TO THAT OF THE SINNER CHOOSING SALVATION, because the former has his EYES WIDE OPEN  and knows full well the value of what is presented to him for his choice, while the LATTER IS BLINDED, and knoweth not what he does, 'but if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost; in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ …should shine unto them (II Cor. 4: 3-4 ).
 " The bible plainly teaches that fallen man is blinded to the truth; the soulical man receives not the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned, and the soulical man has not the spirit.
This the sinner does not realize and appreciate the value of the salvation that is offered to him.  In the first place, he does not know that he is lost, and hence feels no need of salvation.  Secondly, this sinner does not know that the salvation offered him in Christ is worth anything.  All he has to go by in determining its worth is the lives of those who profess to possess it, and they for the most part, are very deficient illustrations of its merit.
 
           Furthermore the sinner is surrounded by circumstances entirely adverse to his acceptance of Christ. And finally, worse than all, 'the mind of the flesh' a corrupt nature, an 'evil heart of unbelief,' a body of death,' that leans toward the BAD and opposes the good continually: and mark you, all these things are circumstances over which the individual has NO control and for which he is NOT to blame.  "Again, mark you, that if he overcomes these unfavorable circumstances and in spite of them does accept Christ, it must be by some power OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF, for in himself he would never have any power for his own deliverance.  This is the teaching of the 7th chapter of Romans.  God must deliver him if he is delivered at ALL he must bring him to the knowledge of his lost condition, so that he will feel his need of a Saviour, and he must give him repentance and faith. God must open his eyes so that he shall not only see the need, but also the priceless value of salvation, that like the apostle Paul, he will be willing to count all things but dross for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus his Lord. 
   " And he must be endowed with power to overcome the evil around and within him.  ALL this help must come from God, and must be imparted to the sinner before he can make the slightest movement toward salvation.  Are there any such elements as these in the case of the man choosing the knife?  Is it not plain that that illustration and the case of the sinner are NOT PARALLEL at all?  And yet just such illustrations are constantly presented as setting forth exactly the case of the sinner in "his" choice or rejection of salvation in Christ!  The fact is there are many factors to be taken into account in the regeneration and new creation of a human being.  It is not such a small matter as picking up a little present that a friend passes over to you. Hence these illustrations are very faulty and misleading " -----------end quote.
   When addressing the unsaved, an evangelist often drew an analogy between Gods sending the gospel to the sinner, and a sick man in bed, with some healing medicine on a table by his side; all he needs to do is reach forth his hand and take it,  ( like Michael's or Dave's dollar bill story )
But in order for this illustration to be in any wise true to the picture which scriptures gives us of the fallen and deprived sinner, the sick man in bed must be described as one who is Blind(Eph. 4:18),so that he can not see the medicine, his hand paralyzed(Rom.5:6) so that he is unable to reach forth for it, and his heart not only devoid of all confidence in the medicine but filled with hatred against the physician himself (Jn. 15:18 ).  Oh, what superficial views of man's desperate plight are not entertained!
 
Christ comes here NOT to help those who were willing to help themselves, or even those willing to be helped, but to do for people what they were incapable of doing for them selves: "to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house". (Isa. 42:7)
   Some one will ask, "will God save men eventually against their will?"  The answer is NO !  He will have no need to do that, for ALL men will be 100% willing when God reveals Himself to them.  Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped, and the doors of the prison house shall be opened.  We have only to consider the case of Saul of Tarsus to understand the miraculous power of the Lord to change the leopard's spots and melt the heart of stone. {new-cov.Jer 31:31 or Ez.36:26-27 ).  There are those who suppose that God could not convert a soul unless that depraved and lost soul gives to almighty God that permission. ( NOT ). I only wish they would ask the Apostle Paul, that Great despiser of Christ and hater of His church, that persecutor of Christians, who while on his way to Damascus was suddenly cast to the ground and converted (turned ).  No man was ever more hateful toward Christ than was Saul of Tarsus, yet, when his turn came (to see the light), he changed in an instant, crying out in fear and trembling and with bitter repentance, "Who art thou, Lord? " and "What will thou have me do ?" Did God ask Saul of Tarsus whether or not he wanted to be saved ?, or did He say to Ananias, "He is a chosen vessel unto me to bear My name before the gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel"  (Acts 9:15 )

It is only God who can change the human heart, and when God wills to change every single human heart in earth and in hell, each will be changed in an INSTANT (Twinkle ).
Jer,31:31-34 Plus Ez.36:26-27
   
   

Behold, the days come, saith the lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their "hearts"; and will be their God, and they shall be my people, 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, Saying, know the Lord: for they shall ALL know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their inquity, and I will remember their sin ( singular ) no more.
EZ. 36: 26-27 says, A new heart also will I give you, and 'ALL'. a new spirit will I put WITHIN YOU: and  I will take away the stony heart out of you 'flesh' and I will give you a heart of flesh.  And I will put my spirit WITHIN you, and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and ye shall keep my judgments, and DO THEM…29 And I will save you from ALL  your uncleannesses, ( Sin ). Can you understand ALL This….?
   Taken from the book "Saviour of the world series" By J. Preston Eby  Just What Do You Mean " Man is a Free Moral Agent!   Typed by Lee Damboise II

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2009, 05:00:25 AM »
Well, people don't take the phrase "gift of God" literally enough.  Additionally, when the Scriptures are calling us to the faith of Christ, it's contrasting the priestly systems rather than asserting a lackadaisical system of indulgence of the flesh or that we're indulged in our sloth.  Paul's Gospel from Romans to Philemon is a sanctification unto obedience.  The priesthoods are being contrasted when it's talking about the difference between the works of the law via the priesthood of Aaron and the principles and precepts of a modified Torah that takes into account Christ Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchezedec in the idea of the "faith of God" or the "faith of Christ."  The New Covenant that we're adopted into as sons of Abraham is actually tougher to walk out by faith than the Old Covenant.  It's not talking about something that Christ does in our behalf in the particular places where it's talking about the faith of Christ or the faith of God. 

It's talking about our entering in by faith into the nature of Christ Jesus as our salvation and receiving everything for our anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, ministries, and relationships.  Again, the references to the faith of Christ are statements of contrast with the Aaronic priesthood and have nothing to do with an easy salvation.  Broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life and there are few that find it.  And I understand the atonement.  I'm talking about the difference being drawn between the works of the law and the faith of Christ.  He exercises His part of the Covenant and we exercise our part of the Covenant 'til we're blessed so that we're a blessing to all of the nations of the earth.  And He's the guarantee that sin will never cause us to fall short if we'll keep the Written Word in our heart, mouth, and actions until every thought is brought captive to the obedience of Christ and every care is cast upon God.  But again, it's a process of greater diligence than was ever prescribed by Deuteronomy or Leviticus to know the life of a son of God.

Wonderful! Brother Martin, Wonderful!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2009, 05:02:47 AM »
THIS! Is for His Glory.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2009, 05:34:34 AM »
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." (Rm 12:3, AV)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2009, 05:54:23 AM »
 13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 14 All things do without murmurings and reasonings,

 15 that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God, unblemished in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse, among whom ye do appear as luminaries in the world,

aspiring son

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 12:43:22 AM »
Well, people don't take the phrase "gift of God" literally enough.  Additionally, when the Scriptures are calling us to the faith of Christ, it's contrasting the priestly systems rather than asserting a lackadaisical system of indulgence of the flesh or that we're indulged in our sloth.  Paul's Gospel from Romans to Philemon is a sanctification unto obedience.  The priesthoods are being contrasted when it's talking about the difference between the works of the law via the priesthood of Aaron and the principles and precepts of a modified Torah that takes into account Christ Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchezedec in the idea of the "faith of God" or the "faith of Christ."  The New Covenant that we're adopted into as sons of Abraham is actually tougher to walk out by faith than the Old Covenant.  It's not talking about something that Christ does in our behalf in the particular places where it's talking about the faith of Christ or the faith of God. 

It's talking about our entering in by faith into the nature of Christ Jesus as our salvation and receiving everything for our anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, ministries, and relationships.  Again, the references to the faith of Christ are statements of contrast with the Aaronic priesthood and have nothing to do with an easy salvation.  Broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life and there are few that find it.  And I understand the atonement.  I'm talking about the difference being drawn between the works of the law and the faith of Christ.  He exercises His part of the Covenant and we exercise our part of the Covenant 'til we're blessed so that we're a blessing to all of the nations of the earth.  And He's the guarantee that sin will never cause us to fall short if we'll keep the Written Word in our heart, mouth, and actions until every thought is brought captive to the obedience of Christ and every care is cast upon God.  But again, it's a process of greater diligence than was ever prescribed by Deuteronomy or Leviticus to know the life of a son of God.

Good post Martin

friendofmankind

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2009, 01:10:45 AM »
I think 'God gave them over to unbelief so that he could have mercy upon all'.
I think the more faith we have the more will be asked of us, so thats why I believe we only get a measure of it, but as we show ourselves faithful God increases our faith, lest we end up with lots of faith and have to go through a greater punishement by somehow misusing our faith....I dont think God just throws faith at us (for our own good).

Its all in Gods hands I say, God (love) is driving this thing, what could go wrong, since he saw and passed the finish line before time even began.

That has been my experience of things.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2009, 10:04:31 AM »
Some speak of our knowing or prophecying in part, that God to us is in a measure, but for Jesus it is without measure.  But what is the measure?  When Paul is speaking of being "'called' an apostle" he is speaking of how much he hears of the never to be superceded utterance of God, His Word made flesh.  The measure is , "...of the stature of the fulness of Christ." (Ep 4:13)  And Scripture says, "Of His fulness  have we all received, and grace for grace." (Jn 1:16) We are to learn to not go beyond Christ, but be defined by the limits of His nature.

The Son is The Standard of All Measure and The Measure of All Relationship.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Faith as Gift of God
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 12:44:04 PM »
Well, people don't take the phrase "gift of God" literally enough.  Additionally, when the Scriptures are calling us to the faith of Christ, it's contrasting the priestly systems rather than asserting a lackadaisical system of indulgence of the flesh or that we're indulged in our sloth.  Paul's Gospel from Romans to Philemon is a sanctification unto obedience.  The priesthoods are being contrasted when it's talking about the difference between the works of the law via the priesthood of Aaron and the principles and precepts of a modified Torah that takes into account Christ Jesus as our High Priest after the order of Melchezedec in the idea of the "faith of God" or the "faith of Christ."  The New Covenant that we're adopted into as sons of Abraham is actually tougher to walk out by faith than the Old Covenant.  It's not talking about something that Christ does in our behalf in the particular places where it's talking about the faith of Christ or the faith of God. 

It's talking about our entering in by faith into the nature of Christ Jesus as our salvation and receiving everything for our anointing, spirit, soul, body, finances, ministries, and relationships.  Again, the references to the faith of Christ are statements of contrast with the Aaronic priesthood and have nothing to do with an easy salvation.  Broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life and there are few that find it.  And I understand the atonement.  I'm talking about the difference being drawn between the works of the law and the faith of Christ.  He exercises His part of the Covenant and we exercise our part of the Covenant 'til we're blessed so that we're a blessing to all of the nations of the earth.  And He's the guarantee that sin will never cause us to fall short if we'll keep the Written Word in our heart, mouth, and actions until every thought is brought captive to the obedience of Christ and every care is cast upon God.  But again, it's a process of greater diligence than was ever prescribed by Deuteronomy or Leviticus to know the life of a son of God.


Now when this "different gospel" while true for the people for whom it was divinely ordained, was perversely forced upon the Galatians, the Uncircumcision, the "gentiles," its promises could not be fulfilled, therefore, their faith was misplaced and nullified! And on this account Paul doubly emphasized the "curse" or anathema upon the preachers, saying, "though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you        ( Galatians, the Uncircumcision or "gentiles"), than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Gal   1:8-9;2:2,7).    Now the reason for all this defense is as follows.  Paul had gone into Galatia in accord with his divinely ordained commission, bringing the gospel which came to him through a revelation of Jesus Christ" (Gal. 1:11-12 ), for which he had been separated (Rom 1:1-5),and which he specifically designated "that gospel which I preach among the gentiles" (Gal 2:2), and "the gospel of the Uncircumcision" ( Gal 2:7) .  Later, Christianized Jewish preachers visited the churches of Galatia and "removed" or transferred the believers from the grace of Christ in which they had been called to "a different Gospel" of faith and works


Martin, Sorry but I have to disagree with your above post, there is a process of working out our walk with God/Jesus, Although in the above post you put so much into telling people that it is up to them to "do the right thing or more work/effort that Arrons' Priesthood.

We all have to be very careful to not bring down the curse from God for preaching a mixed Gospel, of Works and Faith. ALL the work is done By God. This does not nagate the process of how man learn to work with what God has given us and use it. It is all a process. And does incress our faith by the things we suffer(self inflicted suffering) good choices and bad choices do give us good or bad suffering.

Hope you understand where I am coming from, no disrespect intended.
Lee

Livelystone

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Do all men have faith ?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2009, 10:53:41 PM »
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." (Rm 12:3, AV)

By the above verse being quoted by itself it would seem that all men have at least some faith

However as Jesus said man shall live by every word that comes forth from God. "Every Word" means as in accordance with the Laws of God for determining all truth as given to Moses in the Law of God that does not change.

In Galatians it would seem that Paul would have us to note the difference between those who have faith and those who do not

Galatians 6:10
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


However in Thessalonians Paul makes it perfectly clear that all men do not have  faith

2 Thessalonians 3:2
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.


This is important to be undestood and especialy so amongst the UR camp because of the false doctrine taught that all men are born with Christ already in them when nothing could be further from the truth.

Faith and sin are both oposites and as Paul also said anything that is not of faith is sin

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


This is in support of the OP that faith is the gift of salvation. All men are forgiven of their sins through the work of Jesus on the Cross but not all men AT PRESENT are YET saved by the work of Jesus on the Cross !!!. As Paul says each man in his own order.

Faith and sin are both nouns that create verbs in their own image. Works of faith that defines the works of the Lord in man given unto us as the free gift of salvation from repentance that prepared the way for "Christ in us". On the other hand the works of sin are the works of "Adam in us" that are works of sin because men are born unclean through the " serpent seed " found in Adam that is the law of sin in man. Thus  man needs to be born again through the Blood Of Jesus that has the seed (spirit that is the life) that is Christ in us aka the Law of Faith that trumps the law of sin.

Blessings

Doug