Author Topic: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC  (Read 3039 times)

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Offline AJ

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Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« on: March 04, 2009, 08:31:30 AM »

Here's some thoughts that I have - that may or may not be fitting.


Everything comes from God…. and returns to God.
Thus, there isn't anything that exists - that could resort to becoming a nonentity / a nothing.
Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC into something else.



All throughout nature, we see aspects of metamorphosis = 

1.  Change of physical form:  a complete or marked change of physical form, structure, or substance,
      i.e. - the overnight metamorphosis of the pond water - into ice.
      Water – can change from liquid to steam to vapor to droplets and to solid.

2.  Change of appearance or character:  a complete or marked change in appearance, character, or condition,
      i.e. – caterpillar into a butterfly. 

3.  Supernatural transformation:  a transformation caused by supernatural powers, 
      i.e. – changing water into wine, a talking ass / donkey.



Let's consider how diamonds are metamorphic:
Diamonds are made up of pure carbon which has been placed under immense pressure for millions of years. The intense heat produced due to this pressure hardens the carbon.
Diamonds are made from the same substance that the lead in your pencil or coal is made up of. The only difference is that atoms are arranged more tightly in a diamond, which makes them harder.
The carbon comes from the mantle of the earth and some from the bodies of shells and other micro-organisms like algae. Most of the carbon is buried in rocks that are dragged down into the mantle due to continental drifts.

As we see above – who would have believed that clear bright diamonds were made from black coal, which is made from sea shells and seaweed.


In Genesis 1 – we find that the earth was unmanaged, without form and void…..but when God spoke….He created order from chaos and he said of the results – it was good.


In light of metamorphosis, …what comes to mind, is the two unique and distinct natures at war within each individual person.

Especially, - our corrupt, - old man, - body of sin, - fleshly nature from the first Adam, - that's an enemy of God, - that causes us to sin, - that needs to be destroyed.
But just because 'sin' will and needs to be destroyed, it doesn't mean it becomes – a nothing.

(A. ) We each have the 'old man' the 'body of sin' that is to be put off with his deeds and has to be destroyed.
(B. ) And we each also will need to put on the one 'new man' created in righteousness and true holiness.



The Scriptures speaks of  'Reaping what we Sow'.
While we do reap what we sow to a degree in the here and now….I also believe that the greater reaping of what we've sown will be in the ages to come.


If a person had never seen a oak tree before - and he was given an oak tree seed, an acorn   ….there is nothing about looking at the acorn to indicate what a mature tree might look like.
But, when the seed is put in the ground….it dies…and the life that's in the seed begins to sprout, produces roots, stem and leaves.
And after a long period of time a mature tree is revealed that doesn't look anything like the little oak acorn.


James and Peter -  speak of the fiery trials that so easily beset us, …..yet we are to count it all joy for them.   
Huh,…. why count it all joy?

James 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

1 Peter 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:


Our Temporal experiences, do not compare to what lies ahead, eternally.

2Cor. 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


Now back to:
Everything comes from God…. and returns to God.
Thus, there isn't anything that exists - that could resort to becoming a nonentity / a nothing.
Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC into something else.



With that being said…. here's my point.

Is it unreasonable to consider, that all our myriads of sins, could actually become [metamorphic =  relating to or involving a change in form, appearance, or character],  in other words....that our sins, transgression, iniquities –  could somehow become changed to another superb and astonishing form and then returned to us (at a time of reaping) in the ages to come.

Otherwise, …..really…. what is the point of all humanity living through this stinking mess of sins, for years and years and years.
Therefore, a child would have little returned….but a 90 year old person, would have much returned.

I see little difference if one is suffering a horrible pain from a nasty disease like cancer - or suffers from any number of sinful addictions that plague nearly every persons who has lived.
He who is forgiven much – loveth much…..TRUE …..but how many of mankind has even begun to experienced this?

Further:
If our sins return to God our Father…...then where do they go?.......what does He do with them?.....
We should remember, that all things come out from Him…..and will return to Him.

However,….as commonly taught]…. if our Heavenly Father does away with all of our sins completely by (annihilation / obliteration) – then He is without question….getting rid of Himself.

Romans 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

1 Cor. 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Cor. 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
 

Thus, since all things came into existence from out of God, then it follows that all things are of 'God'.

Peace my friends, 
AJ
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 04:47:55 AM by AJ »
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Offline claypot

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 02:48:14 PM »
Man AJ, there is something big in your writings for me. I sense something grand. I am going to read it again.

What stands out to me right away is that, yes, everything must experience metamorphosis. God is said to bring good out of evil.

I have conversed with God, together with some very bad people, to try and sort out how God will deal with the extremely bad acts and their residual effects upon so many others and themselves.

What I wonder about is how our wrongs will be actually be made right. I mean God can forgive us and the people who may be horribly wronged by us may forgive us but that in no way takes away the fact that we did something horrible that caused pain and misery. It will always be a done deal, something we did and can't be undone.

Even if we see that good came out of it, we will always know that we did not do it so good would come.

I suppose we will be forever humbled. No more tears or sorrow to me means we may always carry the scars of our actions but without the sinful pain and condemnation. Kind of like an eternal lesson or truth for us.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Sarah

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 03:38:52 PM »
AJ,

I love the metaphor of diamonds. Another metaphor to consider is feces. I once was wondering the purpose of eveything and I had this interesting dream. I dreamt an eagle killed it's prey and deficated. I saw it falling from the sky. Then I saw a lion eat it's prey. I then saw the poop of the lion descending into the ocean, knowing it would feed the creatures in the depths. Then I woke up.

The funny thing is the importance of the little particles that descend into the oceans to feed the microorganisms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be here as this process is vital for our existance. The scientific reason escapes me now. But the dream made me realize the importance of crap. Although I hate to even mention this because then it sounds like I'm saying we need sin to survive, but that is what nature seems to shout. But really if you consider it more, the planet is a giant filtering system. It is constantly transforming the toxins until they do not exist anymore.

Offline sheila

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 04:12:39 PM »

  the dust of the earth-metamorphes into Adam's body of flesh

  then returns to the dust..when the spirit returns to God.

   It was the spirit of God[spirit of life] that made the dust

   appear as life. Spirit and life is one and the same


   Sin serves mankind and God in many ways. Through the

operation of sin death enters the flesh..and the spirit returns

 unto God who gave it.

   Often times God has used evil to work good for all who love

   Him .[Christ crucified] Joseph sold by brothers.

   Mankind will be educated that they could have done no other

 than what they did..because they were never responsible for

 the condition they were placed in...but it was the will of God

  they expierence the vanity they have.

   God can change anyone into anyhing in the blink of an eye...

  an encounter can change an unbeleiver into a beleiver in an

  instant....some are blind,some are dead,some live,some are

 unfaithful some have great faith..it all depends on God who

  does the choosing. We as His creation can only be what He

has made us...nothing more and nothing less. Coming to the

knowledge of that, that the whole creation has always been in

 His hands...will comfort us...if we find ourselves being what we

  do not want to be. He has promised to deliver us from all

 these circumstances that have made us feel alienated from

  Him. We have all been humbled in this lowly estate we

  presently reside in...but He will exalt mankind in due time

   and all mankind will bear the image of the one from above.


                                                Sheila

Offline claypot

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 04:23:44 PM »
I think of the fact that many more of us would be outright evil doers were it not for the lack of opportunity. Same with being 'heroes'. But for lack of opportunity, like pulling someone out of a burning building, most of us never realize all the good that lies within.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline sheila

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 05:20:40 PM »


  I hear you,CP

   Surely all that GOODNESS IN GOD IS DUE TO BE


   MANIFEST IN HIS SONS AND DAUGHTERS


   and He shall orchestrate it!

Offline sparrow

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 05:56:48 PM »
Excellent topic, AJ!


AJ,

I love the metaphor of diamonds. Another metaphor to consider is feces. I once was wondering the purpose of eveything and I had this interesting dream. I dreamt an eagle killed it's prey and deficated. I saw it falling from the sky. Then I saw a lion eat it's prey. I then saw the poop of the lion descending into the ocean, knowing it would feed the creatures in the depths. Then I woke up.

The funny thing is the importance of the little particles that descend into the oceans to feed the microorganisms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be here as this process is vital for our existance. The scientific reason escapes me now. But the dream made me realize the importance of crap. Although I hate to even mention this because then it sounds like I'm saying we need sin to survive, but that is what nature seems to shout. But really if you consider it more, the planet is a giant filtering system. It is constantly transforming the toxins until they do not exist anymore.


Sarah... When I read your second sentence, ("Another metaphor to consider is feces.") I was like.. :mshock: :msealed:.. :laughing7:

What you wrote up there in the bold...pretty darn awesome.  :thumbsup:


I cannot tell you people how MUCH I LOVE when people see truths in His creation. He put it all here for us... It's all around us all the time. A person in a far out jungle can be taught by God just by what is around Him. That is what is so glorious.

Metaphors abound. Lessons abound. It's all out there.  :happy3:  :happy3:  :happy3:
Let him with eyes, see! It's there. Right in front of us!!
Everywhere.  Parables. God is constantly teaching us. His creation is so much more amazing when you SEE it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 05:59:44 PM by sparrow »
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline CHB

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 08:53:43 PM »

I don't know where I read this but someone ask what we had to do to be forgiven? A few different answers were presented and they all applied but the main one we had to do to be forgiven was SIN. Isn't that amazing?

It's like a cycle as AJ said. "all things come from God and all things return to God". Amen!!!  :happy3:

CHB

Offline Nathan

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 09:22:51 PM »
Wow . .that's pretty rich . .the only thing one must do to be forgiven of sin . .is to sin . . .very cool. :bgdance:

Offline onlytruth

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 10:48:59 PM »
all we have to do is sin...and we are forgiven! WOW THATS FREEDOM! :icon_king:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAORPHIC
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 12:17:06 AM »
 :cloud9: Good one, AJ  :thumbsup:. Our "black"/darkness/heart of coal, becomes diamond-like under extreme pressure (pressed on all sides), and once a diamond, like a prism, it can reflect all the colors/7 spirits of God. Great post.....Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 05:37:14 AM »
"Death of the Old, and a resurrection of the New; a complete life cycle."

An amazing, and rapid transformation is occurring! :gimmefive:

peacemaker

Offline Molly

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 06:05:07 AM »
So when that married man tempts me, I no longer have to say, no?

I'm not sure what you folks are talking about.


John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 08:33:19 AM by Molly »

Offline Sarah

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 02:37:23 PM »
Come on Molly, no one is saying to sin. It is just a simple fact, you can't be forgiven if you don't have anything to be forgiven of. It just stands that we have all sinned.

The big question is, why does sin exist and does it have a purpose?  That is simply what we are talking about in the analogies with nature.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 04:11:46 PM »
The focus is not on the sin . . .the focus is on the redemption . . .on the power of the blood of the Lamb that frees us from the power of sin . . .

You guys remember the famous claim of John the Baptist when he saw Jesus approaching him?  "Behold!  The Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world!!!"

Was he lying?  Was sin removed or not?  And if it was . .then what is all of this horror and terror going on around the world today on a regular basis?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 04:30:33 PM »
You guys remember the famous claim of John the Baptist when he saw Jesus approaching him?  "Behold!  The Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world!!!"

Was he lying?  Was sin removed or not?   And if it was . .then what is all of this horror and terror going on around the world today on a regular basis?

I think there was no lying. No exact time of 'takes away' was mentioned. Can mean teh next day or in 5 trillion years.
Personally I see it this way:
Jesus will start His process of taking away/reducing sin during His 1000 year reign.
The process will not be completed until an undefined period after those 1000 years.
It will be after Satan is thrown into LoF.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 05:52:29 PM »
 :cloud9: Food for thought here. Passover merely covered sin; it was not until the Day of Atonement, which is during the Feast of Tabernacles, that sin was actually removed. Selah. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline AJ

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 06:36:41 PM »
.
Claypot said:

I suppose we will be forever humbled. No more tears or sorrow to me means we may always carry the scars of our actions but without the sinful pain and condemnation. Kind of like an eternal lesson or truth for us.

AJ answer:
If our lord and savior and redeemer - will carry the scars in his hands, feet and side, and the servant is not greater than the master....yes we may carry our scars also.


.
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 07:21:08 PM »
:cloud9: Food for thought here. Passover merely covered sin; it was not until the Day of Atonement, which is during the Feast of Tabernacles, that sin was actually removed. Selah. Blessings....

Passover "covered" sins . . .as animal sacrificing covered sins . . "until" THE ultimate sacrifice had come, not to cover, but to remove . . and for me, I see that is just what he did do.  He removed sin from us/me 2000 years ago . .. in the spirit, there is no "now" and "then" and "later"  it's all a completion of every thing.  So in the flesh . .sin abounds . .but in the spirit .  .sin has no place in us.

1 John 3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Seeing him as he is . . .if you can see Christ now, as he truly is . .then you can become like him . . .you become what you behold . .which I believe that is a "now" experience also.  So many people see and image of Christ, but they can't see him as he really is . . .but I believe that's changing as these paradigm shifts continue to occur in and around us.

3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

See that?  It's your hope in him that purifies you . .not your works, not your laboring or reasoning.  Hoping for something is seeing it before seeing it.  See how powerful the cross really is?  Just "hoping" that I can be like him, purifies me so that . . I "can" be like him.

 4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is not breaking the spiritual truth . . .it's breaking a religious law . .one that we're no longer bound to.  If we're not bound to the law . .we're not bound to the sin.

 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; (Past tense) and in him is no sin.  6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

For me, this last part is saying if all you see is horror and terror around you . . .then you haven't seen Christ.  Because he is light . .and if all you're seeing is darkness . .then how can you claim to be in the light?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 07:44:51 PM »
 :cloud9: I understand where you're coming from and I agree with part of it, but my point was, that He was our Passover Lamb, sins were covered. Then we (hopefully) experienced Pentecost spiritually as well, and the HG began to do the works in us and through us. So then if these 2 were spiritual experiences that we had to walk out in shoe leather (appropriate for ourselves), and didn't get just by virtue of Him having done it all, then why is it anything out of the order here, to see that Tabernacles, the last day of which removes sin, might also be a spiritual experience (not yet had) that must be walked out in shoe leather?

Where I would want to go with this, might be better suited to the "Works" thread, but for now this is my point. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2009, 07:58:28 PM »
All you have to do to be forgiven is to sin?

Is that what the Bible says?

I thought it says, Repent.

Change your thinking--metamorphosis.

Isn't change the topic of this thread?

I'd like to hear more of what Cardinal is talking about because I don't understand it.

Mark 6:12
And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2009, 08:58:23 PM »
Of course repentance is involved, but if there is no sin, there's no need for repentance . . . it is simply explaining that even sin has a purpose. . .at least that's what I'm seeing with it.

Offline Molly

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2009, 09:00:42 PM »
Of course repentance is involved, but if there is no sin, there's no need for repentance . . . it is simply explaining that even sin has a purpose. . .at least that's what I'm seeing with it.
well, that's good.  But nobody mentioned repentence until now lol.

So, if you don't repent, then what?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2009, 09:17:14 PM »
The invitation of Christ in your heart is the evidence of repentence . . . I just thought it goes without saying. 

All repentence is to me is . . not so much what you're doing, but what you're thinking that causes you to do what you're doing.  Repentence is a paradigm shift in itself.  Accepting the finished works of Christ is a paradigm shift . . . it causes you to think differently  . . .thinking differently leads to doing differently . . . it's just that in some it takes longer to manifest, but that's not to say that it didn't happen.

Offline Molly

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Re: Everything – that can be changed will become METAMORPHIC
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2009, 09:30:27 PM »
The invitation of Christ in your heart is the evidence of repentence . . . I just thought it goes without saying. 

All repentence is to me is . . not so much what you're doing, but what you're thinking that causes you to do what you're doing.  Repentence is a paradigm shift in itself.  Accepting the finished works of Christ is a paradigm shift . . . it causes you to think differently  . . .thinking differently leads to doing differently . . . it's just that in some it takes longer to manifest, but that's not to say that it didn't happen.
But, see, that's the problem.  It doesn't go without saying.

Repentence is an action which we ourselves have to take--based on a feeling of remorse.