Evangelical Basics 101

[whyiloveitaly]

I found an interesting commentary on Paul's preaching method here:
http://greater-emmanuel.org/jm/permission.htm

No tracts, altar calls, pocket NTs, music, or hellfire and brimstone...

-Even speaking in tongues seemed different then than what we see today as "tongues:"

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


Blessings,
Brian

[Cardinal]

  Hi Brian......I read it and for sure there is some truth in it. As for the reference to Acts 2, I know from experience the miracle there was one of supernatural hearing PLUS speaking.

They spoke a heavenly language BUT they heard it translated AT THE SAME TIME, into their own native tongue. So they heard both the tongues with the natural hearing, and the translation into their native tongue, with the hearing gift of the Spirit.

It was quite startling to me also the first time it happened to me; that's how I know what happened to them. Blessings....

[SteveW]

An interesting article.  Just one more example of how the boxes we evangelicals uses to systematize and define things are too small and restricting.

Cardinal, I don't know that I agree with you about what happened in Acts 2, we just don't know.  Maybe that is what happened for some of them.  Either way it was totally miraculous.  However, the fact that it happened to you is WAY cool.  You make it sound like it was very clear, as I'm sure it was in Acts 2.

[WhiteWings]

  find Brian.

[Pierac]

I found an interesting commentary on Paul's preaching method here:
http://greater-emmanuel.org/jm/permission.htm

No tracts, altar calls, pocket NTs, music, or hellfire and brimstone...

-Even speaking in tongues seemed different then than what we see today as "tongues:"

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Blessings, Brian

Excellent!  You have found a Pearl of great value! So Keep it, and don't let others destroy it's value!


Paul

[whyiloveitaly]

Cardinal,
I don't know what type of experience you've had with tongues. I will tell my own:
when I got "saved" or whatever we should call it, people told me that I should start speaking in tongues. Not immediately, but at some point during prayer in the following months it seemed that my tongue was "loosed." Obviously I don't know what I said, and maybe that doesn't matter, although some would say that understanding is better than just speaking.
I have seen many many people also pray in this manner, where no one else knows what they are saying.

What happened in Acts seems different to me: one person spoke, and 20 people of different countries all heard that one person speak in their own language! We could call it, "the end of Babylon."

Yes, maybe it was not only "supernatural tongues" but also "supernatural hearing!" 

This is how I read Acts 2, and I see it very different from what I see in churches today.
Clearly, there was (at least one) purpose in the Acts 2 experience--- that of evangelizing. What we see in churches today, however, doesn't convince me.

Just like the fact that preaching back then looks to be very different than your average Joe Blow Preacher on a shoebox on Main Street. Or Benny Hinn. Or.......

After all, back then, they didn't even have a New Testament!!!!!!

These days, I feel the Lord drawing me higher in Him through the Psalms. I asked the guy at the bookstore if they had a "pocket Psalms edition" and he looked at me pretty weird.

But the message of Christ is as old as time, if we can see it...

  to all,
Brian

[Cardinal]

An interesting article.  Just one more example of how the boxes we evangelicals uses to systematize and define things are too small and restricting.

Cardinal, I don't know that I agree with you about what happened in Acts 2, we just don't know.  Maybe that is what happened for some of them.  Either way it was totally miraculous.  However, the fact that it happened to you is WAY cool.  You make it sound like it was very clear, as I'm sure it was in Acts 2.

  It was no different than if you spoke to me (yet it was not audible to the physical ears), only it was the Spirit of God speaking the translation AT THE SAME TIME, the woman who got the tongues was speaking under the inspiration of the Spirit of God in tongues.

My friend got tongues and interpretation as a gift that she walked in fairly frequently, but I had never asked her exact details on how it worked. I didn't realize she actually was hearing the interpretation at the same time the tongues was coming forth. So when it happened to me it was a complete shock, since I really didn't know how it worked.

So I totally understand why they were shocked on the day of Pentecost, because you hear with your natural ears the tongues, but with your spiritual ears (at the same time), the interpretation. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Cardinal,
I don't know what type of experience you've had with tongues. I will tell my own:
when I got "saved" or whatever we should call it, people told me that I should start speaking in tongues. Not immediately, but at some point during prayer in the following months it seemed that my tongue was "loosed." Obviously I don't know what I said, and maybe that doesn't matter, although some would say that understanding is better than just speaking.
I have seen many many people also pray in this manner, where no one else knows what they are saying.

What happened in Acts seems different to me: one person spoke, and 20 people of different countries all heard that one person speak in their own language! We could call it, "the end of Babylon."

Yes, maybe it was not only "supernatural tongues" but also "supernatural hearing!" 

This is how I read Acts 2, and I see it very different from what I see in churches today.
Clearly, there was (at least one) purpose in the Acts 2 experience--- that of evangelizing. What we see in churches today, however, doesn't convince me.

Just like the fact that preaching back then looks to be very different than your average Joe Blow Preacher on a shoebox on Main Street. Or Benny Hinn. Or.......

After all, back then, they didn't even have a New Testament!!!!!!

These days, I feel the Lord drawing me higher in Him through the Psalms. I asked the guy at the bookstore if they had a "pocket Psalms edition" and he looked at me pretty weird.

But the message of Christ is as old as time, if we can see it...

  to all,
Brian

  Yes, it IS in a very real sense the end of the curse of Babylon. He came to redeem us from all the curses, and that includes when He confused their languages. Bringing them back under one spiritual language (although it may sound different, the source is the same), is what He did.

I have seen people in churches well-meaning but in error, try to get people to stammer, ect. It's a FREE GIFT, it comes from Him, it needs no arm of flesh to help it along, EXCEPT we can lay hands on people and pray for them to receive the free gift. That's it. The rest is up to the Spirit of God and His timing. There doesn't even need to be anyone else there; just you and God will suffice.

The main misconception that seems to plague the body is thinking that tongues (personal prayer language that ALL believers are entitled to) is the same as the gift of tongues AND INTERPRETATION.

Tongues AND interpretation is a separate gift. It is not the same as someone's personal prayer language, and this is obvious, especially to them, as the "language" is different in syllables.

And if someone has it, usually they are used both to speak and to interpret, but not necessarily at the same time. Sometimes one will get the tongues, but someone else will get the interpretation, UNLESS there is only the one person in the gathering that has that gift.

NEITHER gift comes thru your carnal mind, but actually bypasses it because it comes out of His Spirit in you. For this reason, you can read a book and speak in tongues and not be the least bit bothered by it or unable to keep track of what you read. This actually was proven in a scientific test I saw results of a few months back, in that the part of the brain that handles speech was unaffected. Blessings....

[martincisneros]

The article's pretty lousy from a lack of knowledge of the Scriptures. Sinner's prayers are very Scriptural. I won't do everybody's studying for them, but I'll give an example of what one looks like.  (Arguments from missing details in a New Testament text regarding practice doesn't mean stop looking there for what they likely did, since Lord Jesus was a Biblical fundamentalist and took every chance He could find to refute denominational traditions in Judaism of the day.  He always pointed them to the Scriptures, Luke 24's an example of where He did.)  But anyway, one example of a Biblical "sinner's prayer," though there are others, quite a few in fact, would be:

2 Take words with you,
      And return to the LORD.
      Say to Him,
      " Take away all iniquity;
      Receive us graciously,
      For we will offer the sacrifices of our lips.
       3 Assyria shall not save us,
      We will not ride on horses,
      Nor will we say anymore to the work of our hands, 'You are our gods.'
      For in You the fatherless finds mercy." (Hosea 14:2-3)


And again, that's not the only one in the Bible;-)

And as to the other -- not even worth answering again 'cause tongues and interpretation of tongues is the children's bread.

[SteveW]

In Acts 10 the HS came on them while Peter was still preaching.  It seems like a big stretch to insert a sinner's prayer there.

[martincisneros]

In Acts 10 the HS came on them while Peter was still preaching.  It seems like a big stretch to insert a sinner's prayer there.

Going back to context and you'll find that the man was already very repentant, feared the Lord with all of His heart, and was so much of a prayer and giver that his prayers and his money became a memorial before God, as the foundation upon which God went after Peter.  Not the same thing as a normal evangelistic situation.  It's like bringing a Catholic into the baptism with Holy Spirit where you're already dealing with someone that believes in the Lord with all of their heart -- up to their current level of knowledge, that's simply incomplete.  Just a matter of taking them the rest of the way beyond the veil in Christ.  Where it happens sans the prayer, they were already God fearing and crying out to Him.

[whyiloveitaly]

In Acts 10 the HS came on them while Peter was still preaching.  It seems like a big stretch to insert a sinner's prayer there.

 
In fact, I think later on the apostles were debating about this very fact.. that people were receiving the HS without water baptism first! Scandalous!

God does whatever He pleases, whenever He pleases, however he pleases-- even without "our permission!"
And John the Baptist pointed this out as well when he told the people not to think of themselves as the "obvious" chosen of God, because God can make followers out of stones if He so chooses!....

Blessings,
Brian

[Cardinal]

  Once again, God looks at the condition of the heart. The heart is turned towards the Lord for the "sinner's prayer" to "work" in the first place. Blessings.....