Author Topic: ET view on Matt 5-7...  (Read 1010 times)

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ET view on Matt 5-7...
« on: January 03, 2010, 11:09:09 PM »
I was talking to my sister (a very strict ET'er) about what Jesus did on the cross and that because of it everyone has been saved.  Somehow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7) came up, and she was telling me that Jesus was 'upping the ante' so to speak.  She told me that according to the Christian church (and she believes as well) the teachings in fact gave us MORE rules to follow, and at the same time included EVERYONE in those rules, not just the Jews.  I have heard this question once before, and I thought I'd share it:

'How in the world does God expect US to be able to live up to elevated standards when His own chosen people (the Jews) could not follow the ones that were set up in the first place through the first covenant?'

It just doesn't make sense.  If your child was really struggling with something in life, tried and tried but could never EVER reach up to your standards, would you really give tougher rules to follow?  Or would you do something to make it easier and end his or her struggle?

What's everyone else's thoughts on this?

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 11:18:31 PM »
Thoughts;

Jesus was primarily speaking to the Jews (most often the Jewish religious leaders) PRIOR TO THE CROSS - often, about their position in the kingdom and the coming end of that age;

The Law and many things Jesus said did "up the ante", but in the sense that we were shown we couldn't be good enough to save ourselves, we would never measure up - that we needed the grace of the cross.

I heard a poor old fella say once "we are perfect when we get saved, then it's up to us to stay that way".   :mshock:    

Overcoming and pressing into Him for His completion of our faith is one thing, but without the cross, we're all still in trouble.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 01:34:54 AM »
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I heard a poor old fella say once "we are perfect when we get saved, then it's up to us to stay that way".       


I have always been taught the same thing;  That our salvation is us accepting Jesus and then after that it's up to us and our works that will keep us saved... what we do for others and how it makes us look to the world... how we have to be the 'shining light' to the world and show that we love Jesus by our actions/works. If we fail at every aspect of that then apparently we aren't saved no matter how many times we pray 'the sinner's prayer'.

I have seen not too long ago that this isn't the case; That it's Jesus's completed work that saved us, not ours... in the past, present nor the future... that there is NOTHING we can do 'works wise' that will get us any closer to being saved.

Jesus IS the shining light that came to the world.  He shines on everyone.

Offline CHB

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 03:17:15 AM »
Thoughts;

Jesus was primarily speaking to the Jews (most often the Jewish religious leaders) PRIOR TO THE CROSS - often, about their position in the kingdom and the coming end of that age;

The Law and many things Jesus said did "up the ante", but in the sense that we were shown we couldn't be good enough to save ourselves, we would never measure up - that we needed the grace of the cross.

I heard a poor old fella say once "we are perfect when we get saved, then it's up to us to stay that way".   :mshock:    

Overcoming and pressing into Him for His completion of our faith is one thing, but without the cross, we're all still in trouble.

Amen Jabcat.  :thumbsup:

CHB

Offline Dallas

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 06:52:29 AM »
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Jesus was primarily speaking to the Jews (most often the Jewish religious leaders) PRIOR TO THE CROSS - often, about their position in the kingdom and the coming end of that age;

The Law and many things Jesus said did "up the ante", but in the sense that we were shown we couldn't be good enough to save ourselves, we would never measure up - that we needed the grace of the cross.

I would say this is where universalism along with ET'rs are trying to "be saved."

Many people, and there are many here that understand that they couldn't save themselves yet try very hard to work out their healing, progressing thier salvation. Almost like there are levels and as if some are further along than others.

We are all in the exact same place, chidren with a father, none sit higher, none are better and none are worth more... we all recieved the same inheritance but that has eluded people.

Just as we have accepted the ante has been up'ed doctrine, we are (unfortunatley) ignoring it and are still hard at work trying to thank God and fix our own broken hearts.

Offline jabcat

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 07:26:16 AM »
Thanks C.  I sure can't save myself brother Dallas, and I agree, I don't think anyone else can either.  Either by our own works or our own faith - otherwise Jesus came and died for what?  Just to make it "possible for some"?.  I have to trust in the sacrifice and blood of Jesus and His finished work on the cross.  And I can only trust in that with the faith He gives me.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;  Eph. 2:8
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 07:27:15 AM »
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We are all in the exact same place, chidren with a father, none sit higher, none are better and none are worth more... we all recieved the same inheritance but that has eluded people.

This reminds me very much of this:


Matthew 20:1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

   2"When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard.

   3"And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place;
   
   4and to those he said, 'You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' And so they went.

   5"Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing.

   6"And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, 'Why have you been standing here idle all day long?'

   7"They said to him, 'Because no one hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too.'

   8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.'

   9"When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius.

   10"When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.

   11"When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner,

   12saying, 'These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.'

   13"But he answered and said to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?

   14'Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.

   15'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?'

   16"So the last shall be first, and the first last."



I've never seen the parallel between this story and how God is going to give everyone the same inheritance before.  It makes so much more sense now.

Thank You Dallas.


Offline Dallas

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Re: ET view on Matt 5-7...
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 12:06:00 AM »
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I've never seen the parallel between this story and how God is going to give everyone the same inheritance before.

Going isn't going to give everyone the same inheritance... that's just the thing.

He GAVE everyone the FULL inheritance... No lacks anything.

Every person from Hittler to Jesus have the whole Kingdom promises, yes even you have in your possesion already the whole kingdom... You have just as much of it as Jesus.....

Wow, did Jesus really do that much for us...YES!!!!

Halleluhjha!!!