Author Topic: Does Satan believe know about UR?  (Read 5588 times)

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natcat86

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Does Satan believe know about UR?
« on: November 24, 2009, 07:55:42 PM »
I had always been told that Satan wanted to steal as many souls into hell for eternity as possible. But seeing as there isn't an eternal hell, I guess his mission is to keep us dead in our sin(?). But-

Does satan know about UR?
Will he be saved? (Coll 1:15- comes to mind.)
If the LoF is now, like some people believe, when will Satan be saved?

Appologies if this has been covered before, which I suspect it has, a link to the appropriate thread would be very appreciated!  :thumbsup:
 :dsunny:
 :icon_flower:

Offline sven

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2009, 08:00:04 PM »
Quote
Does satan know about UR?

interesting question, I've read in an UR article that the doctrine of eternal torment is lie of the lawless one (i.e. the devil), that believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword. (Job 15:22)

Offline legoman

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 08:01:24 PM »
Satan's mission is to deceive the world - I'd say he's doing a pretty good job...


Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 08:04:52 PM »
Natcat,

I hate this topic.  Mostly because it is similar to the circular one about free will.   And it always ends with someone who believes Satan will be saved (which sounds horrible and I don't believe he will be).  But anyhow, I just thought I'd say I have had this discussion before and find it is not worth discussing.
No offense intended toward you.  If people want to discuss it, it matters not to me.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 08:07:40 PM »

 that believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword. (Job 15:22)

[/quote]

Does this mean Satan doesn't believe he will be saved?

Offline sven

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 08:12:01 PM »
well that Job 15:22 refers to the devil is a far fetched interpretation but an interesting thought anyway, I think the devil believes that he will oppose God forevermore.

I can not imagine that the devil believes he will be saved, maybe he does, but opposes this thought, maybe he does not want to be saved.

Quote
And it always ends with someone who believes Satan will be saved

I'm just curious, what do you think will happen to him?

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 08:17:05 PM »
I think that is Satan doesn't want to be saved and this leads to him not being saved, what about humans who do not want to be saved?

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 08:48:42 PM »
If this topic is as contentious as the free will one mayne we should wait for the green light from a mod?

Dont want to cause any problems  :HeartThrob:

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 08:56:09 PM »
Ok friends, I am giving this as my personal understanding...

Satan, devil, or what ever I think you mean by a thing outside of Humanity, i.e. a red horned being. "never existed" a being other than the Bible devil/Satan is man made. Now the bible devil/Satan is the element that dwells inside all humanity as the 5 scenes. And the condition known as human feelings through the awareness of the human mind, "thought", will never be saved/can't. This is not the soul,spirit and body of humanity. It is the Lusts of the dirt we are made up of. Man.

Satan, can't be saved also because about 2000 years ago the image that the followers of God / His People had  Was, "past tense" saved by the Holy Anointed of the father in a Man called Jesus. And this Jesus Killed and imprisoned this "image' his people had of this beast.

I believe that most of UR knows that in mankind, dwells something that "can" be bad. I call it the 5 senses of Mankind.
sorry about miss spelling, can't spell great.

Lee Damboise II

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 09:08:22 PM »
I think satan is on the fourth place of knowing things. (Father Son HS)
Even the demons begged Jesus not to torment before their time.
And if satan really wasn't aware of UR until Jesus he had plenty of time to read the scriptures.
Maybe a better question would be: "Is it even possible for satan to do something good? Can he control himself? Is he just a tool?"
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 01:59:05 AM »
Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

peacemaker

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 02:43:06 AM »
 :cloud9: He must or he wouldn't be after EVERYONE, LOL....... :dontknow: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Pierac

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 03:09:20 AM »
Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

Joh 8:44  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning (G746), and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

G746 αρχή  archē  Thayer Definition: 1) beginning, origin

1Jo 3:8  Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning (G746). The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Job 26:13  By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.


Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient (G744) serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

G744   αρχαιος   archaios
Thayer Definition:
1)   that has been from the beginning,  original

Interesting topic, does Satan know?

2Co 4:4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

One might conclude, Satan is part of the plan?

Mar 4:15  And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.

Now why is Satan only bound at the end of the age yet not now?

 Rev 20:2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient (G744) serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand  years,


I think Satan knows why he was created! As Paul said… All is of God!



Paul




HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 03:53:28 AM »
Ok friends, I am giving this as my personal understanding...

Satan, devil, or what ever I think you mean by a thing outside of Humanity, i.e. a red horned being. "never existed" a being other than the Bible devil/Satan is man made. Now the bible devil/Satan is the element that dwells inside all humanity as the 5 scenes. And the condition known as human feelings through the awareness of the human mind, "thought", will never be saved/can't. This is not the soul,spirit and body of humanity. It is the Lusts of the dirt we are made up of. Man.

Satan, can't be saved also because about 2000 years ago the image that the followers of God / His People had  Was, "past tense" saved by the Holy Anointed of the father in a Man called Jesus. And this Jesus Killed and imprisoned this "image' his people had of this beast.

I believe that most of UR knows that in mankind, dwells something that "can" be bad. I call it the 5 senses of Mankind.
sorry about miss spelling, can't spell great.

Lee Damboise II


Hey Lee, I removed your [quote/quote] to make you post look better. I did not alter your text Paul :mblush:
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 07:12:06 AM by Pierac »

Offline Pierac

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 07:20:13 AM »
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."

Webster...1828 version

And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

I'm familiar with your view, however the Satan here in Job 1:6, is not dwelling inside all humanity.

Paul
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 07:23:28 AM by Pierac »

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 10:05:34 AM »
I'm also familiar with your view, nevertheless, are human beings less adversarial or life without adversity?

A calamitous event, either way you look at it.

peacemaker

Offline jabcat

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 10:26:04 AM »
If this topic is as contentious as the free will one mayne we should wait for the green light from a mod?

Dont want to cause any problems  :HeartThrob:

I don't see any problem with it Nat as long as folks follow the basics.  

Like most topics, actually, it could lead into a free will/sovereignty battle, or a "gee, the Bible's not true anyway" or "it doesn't matter to me what the Bible says, let me tell you what I think", etc...

Let's just not go there + the mods won't let it, so it should be fine.  I personally think it's a pretty relevant UR question, i.e., "so what does God being All in All really mean, anyway"?  Thanks for being considerate.  :bigGrin:

James.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 10:32:51 AM by jabcat »

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 03:59:03 PM »
If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2009, 04:11:38 PM »
natcat,

My thought on this.
There are several verses about burning things.
Bad works for example.
A better example imo is wheat and chaf.
The chaf is burned. But wheat and chaf both are the same plant. So the same person.
There are also several verses telling us Father is a refiner and a fullars soap.
So I think that all the bad parts (chaf) of us will be burned up and never return. The cleaned part (chaf) goes to heaven.
Now for satan if he is pure evil then he is pure chaf. And nothing remains for heaven.
Not sure the Bible writes something like that about satan because (nearly) all verses are about humans.
Just an idea for you to consider.

/edit not to start a debate about it but you should also consider that some think satan is a tool in God's plan. Satan won't get wiped out of existance because he did what he was designed for. I just mention this because it makes my whole wheat/chaff explanation none relavant...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 04:17:49 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2009, 04:31:43 PM »
I was wondering if Satan is a part of the plan like Judas, Pharaoh, raised up to show God's glory. If people want to let me know their opinions PM me so we dont get into the free will debate.  :girlheart:

I can understand the purpose of the fire being refining. I cant imagine God creating anything without a purpose which glorifies him (apart from men's nipples :laugh:).

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2009, 04:38:13 PM »
A good example of God In MEN, minus the "and"
Was any of these men in possession of evil in them "ever"????

If evil is Satan, or Satan is Evil....?  IF


As to anyone saying that the bible "isn't the Word of God Question" I feel that the Day that I have to stop saying IMO "in my opinion" about what the Father Reveals to me then I'll go to a Baptist church for knowledge.

These were the Sons of God at Jesus' time, who where the Rest of humans.?????????????????????????????????????

Lee  Be back in an hour

Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself was beginning to be about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, son of Joseph,
Luk 3:24  the son of Eli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph,
Luk 3:25  the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Naum, the son of Esli,
Luk 3:26  the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Juda,
Luk 3:27  the son of Joanna, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
Luk 3:28  the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er,
Luk 3:29  the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
Luk 3:30  the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Juda, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim,
Luk 3:31  the son of Melea, the son of Mainan, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
Luk 3:32  the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Booz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon,
Luk 3:33  the son of Amminadab, the son of Aram, the son of Esrom, the son of Pharez,
Luk 3:34  the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
Luk 3:35  the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
Luk 3:36  the son of Salah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
Luk 3:37  the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel,
Luk 3:38  the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 04:38:19 PM »
(apart from men's nipples :laugh:).
Psssst, it's for deflating potbellies :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 04:42:06 PM »
 :cloud9: :laughing7: Good one...... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

natcat86

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2009, 04:47:23 PM »
 :mrflo:

Offline Pierac

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Re: Does Satan believe know about UR?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2009, 03:57:55 AM »
If Satan is not saved what will happen to him? burnt up in LoF?

Good question... Col 1:20  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

What things in heaven need reconciled?


Paul