Does God curse those he has reconcilled?

[reFORMer]

I haven't yet seen anybody in the popular media take on what Robertson said.  It seems to be only they find it distasteful or offensive.  Sometimes they provide an alternative view that the same things happen to everybody, no matter what they believe or how they behave.  That is not how I view reality. Mostly the Hebrew Scriptures speak concerning the covenant with God in terms of what happens to you in this life, good or bad.

So did Haiti as a country make a pact with the devil?  If they did shouldn't they repent?  How can a Christian that recognizes the existence of a living God, real demons and evil spirits, as well as holy angels ever consent to the idea that such things are irrelevant?  A sister who was like a relative to our family had an orphanage of over 40 children in Port a Prince.  She was with the churches founded by a brother that went to the same seminary as my dad.  There were over 10,000 people in those churches in Haiti.  He had a vision of the clenched fist of a voodoo demon that was over Haiti.  It held the money of Haiti tight and wouldn't let it go.

Of course, part of the "Christian" thing to do is get help to them as quickly as possible in the name of the Lord without quibbles about what they believe, which I understand Robertson and those with him are doing.

[natcat86]

I've been thinking about this a lot.
My main beef with Roberston is that he has no authority to say that Haiti made a pact with the devil. where is he getting this information from God? If I were him I wouldnt listen to the voice in his head which he thinks is God. That voice (supposedly God) has told him in the past that:
- Terrorists will conduct a mass killing in the US in 2007- false
- George W Bush would enjoy victory after victory and that his social security reform would be approved- false
- Before the end of 2006 a Tsunami would crash into the west coast of USA- false

If God is telling Pat these thigs, God is a liar. Or Pat is a liar, or mislead. Either way he is a false prophet.
He has no business speaking on behalf of God when he has taken His name in vain so many times putting flase words in God's mouth.

The Haitian crisis is OUR falt not God's. The fact tht the world is pouring so much money into Haiti now shows that those resources existed all along. God provided them. We knew something like this could happen. If we had given this financial support two years ago and put it into infrastructor this earthquake would not have had such a devestating effect.

[jabcat]

I haven't yet seen anybody in the popular media take on what Robertson said.  It seems to be only they find it distasteful or offensive.  Sometimes they provide an alternative view that the same things happen to everybody, no matter what they believe or how they behave.  That is not how I view reality. Mostly the Hebrew Scriptures speak concerning the covenant with God in terms of what happens to you in this life, good or bad.

How can a Christian that recognizes the existence of a living God, real demons and evil spirits, as well as holy angels ever consent to the idea that such things are irrelevant? ...... vision of the clenched fist of a voodoo demon that was over Haiti.  It held the money of Haiti tight and wouldn't let it go.

Of course, part of the "Christian" thing to do is get help to them as quickly as possible in the name of the Lord without quibbles about what they believe, which I understand Robertson and those with him are doing.

Thanks James for coming back to this.  I've been thinking since yours and Martin's posts, if we're talking about the principle of reaping and sowing, then might it be said that Haiti as a country (and culture) is reaping what they've sown?  And isn't that the bottom line of what Pat was saying, i.e., they don't honor God, but as Christians, we're going to help them?

I don't know where Pat got his information, and I also am leery of false prophecy.  But maybe this wasn't prophecy.  Maybe it was more historical information.  I DON'T KNOW, but it may be worth considering and investigating further.

[natcat86]

Haiti was the poorest coutry in the western hemesphere BEFORE this thing happened. Was that them reaping judgement too? Or when they were take as slaves? 83 % of the population are christian! These people are living in poverty and so can't afoard to build houses that will withstand a strong earth quake. This is God's judgement??? Haiti are our poor neighbours? who deserves to be punished? Haiti- too poor to help themselves or the developed world which is rich enough that we could have helped long ago?

To say that the Father rains judgement on a nation with an earthquake but the Son compells us to care for those victims seems like a house divided to me.
 

[Paul Hazelwood]

I'll believe Pat Robertsons point of view when I see him running for cover.

[reFORMer]

I've certainly been under God's chastening rod precisely for what wickedness of mine I knew full well.  I also have had the protection of the Lord in dangerous situations.  Yet, there is much, both good and bad, for which I have no explanation.

When it comes to Haiti I can't say God has revealed much to me in particular.  With people near to me and my family ministering there it has been a matter placed before the Lord in prayer for many years.  The only thing I feel some confidence over is they need to abandon demonic voudou with its graceless false values and bondage to fear and turn to the Good Shepherd with all of their hearts.

That would be irrelevant if God does nothing for those who repent and serve Him.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Jn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The manifestations of the works of God are through the ones who help in this situation.

[jabcat]

I've certainly been under God's chastening rod precisely for what wickedness of mine I knew full well.  I also have had the protection of the Lord in dangerous situations.  Yet, there is much, both good and bad, for which I have no explanation.

That would be irrelevant if God does nothing for those who repent and serve Him.

In relation to the quote above, as well as other things said in the thread, such as the John 9:3 verse.  Reaping/sowing - scriptural principle - only applies in some situations, not in others?   God blessing and protecting for faithfulness and obedience - does He or not?  God bringing an experience of evil to teach and bring judgments - does He or not?  Do we not experience [punishment/consequences/wrath] that we may have "earned" or deserved?    OR, as the OP says (I'll word it a little differently according to the way I understand it - God has reconciled Himself to all, but all are not yet reconciled to God [not all called/chosen yet]) - then is it the belief of some that God has nothing to do with any consequences/punishment/chastistments -  that it's "life" and God just doesn't get all that directly involved?  All bad things are just "the devil" and God only wants to fix it?

I don't know, I'm not there.  But I've read even many/most Haitians that call themselves Christians mix in practices with "the spirits"/voodoo with their Catholicism.  Although we are to know the fruits (I'd suggest voodoo's not the best thing to mix with Christianity) still, I have my own sins I battle and I cannot judge Haiti or one single Haitian.   Maybe it comes back to the earlier thoughts, that sometimes we don't know for sure and our job is to love and help.  As with many things, I believe it's a great big subject - and there's probably been 500 books written trying to explain all this from 500 different philosophical and spiritual angles.  I sure don't understand all the reasons why, and I believe everyone has pain and trials - and obviously,  the Haitians are in extreme pain and need right now.  I believe God has good plans and He will help us and He wants us to help others.

In the end, I think it's right - "what does God want each of us to do to help?"  

[jabcat]

Does God curse those he has reconcilled?

I just re-read the above line.

Do you think there may be a difference between  (and it may be hard to know)  what's a curse vs. what's discipline, or correction, or cleansing, or consequences, etc...?  What we may view and call something, may be our own perspective from our own limited perception and understanding - when God may be up to something and have an entirely different outcome in mind than what we may have imagined.

It's a thought.

[reFORMer]

cures -- what heals and makes whole
curse -- evil causeing cures

in the course of this world
the curs licked Lazarus's sores



Job was sure of his righteousness.  God didn't say he was wrong.  Job's friends that tried to justify God, saying He wouldn't have smitten Job unless he did something to deserve it, God said they spoke wrong about Him.



devil
 evil
  vil  ("vile")
   il  ("ill")
    l  (sounds like, "hell")

[Paul Hazelwood]

There is also a serious fault line that runs through or near haiti,  sooner or later it's gonna shift,  don't matter who's good or bad.

[Cardinal]

  Natural disasters, such as the tidal wave that hit the mostly Moslem countries, do release people from the darkness of their own making in two ways; by death of the body, and some from seeing the Lord in action in His people, who are usually there with relief efforts faster than the bottle-necked government's red tape brigades. Operation Blessing, I read, was at Katrina before anyone else arrived. What the enemy means for evil, the Lord means for good. Blessings....

[onlytruth]

who sinned ,this man or his parents?neither but this is a good oppurtunity to show the glory of God
Now this is what I want to see happen....THE EARTH GROANS FOR THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO BE SEEN!!!
When will the glory fill the earth!?When is God going to release his sons and daughters!?