Author Topic: Commandments?  (Read 2355 times)

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Syndicated

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Commandments?
« on: January 24, 2010, 12:20:34 AM »
John 14:12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

   13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

   14"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

   15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



John 14:21"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

   22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"

   23Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

   24"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.




I'm a little confused about something here...

If Jesus' death was the resolution of the Law of Moses, what then are Jesus's commandments?  Is it just to love one another?  or is it something else that I'm missing?    :dontknow:

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 01:13:07 AM »
Totally IMO, all the NT Books other than Paul is the fulfulling of the Law to it's people Israel, and MOST of Paul's books teach the fulfulling of the new life IN Christ.    two peoples and two ways to God through the same Son..

More later. Lee Damboise II

Oh ya. It is to God/Love one another....

Offline Dallas

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 01:43:07 AM »
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Totally IMO, all the NT Books other than Paul is the fulfulling of the Law to it's people Israel, and MOST of Paul's books teach the fulfulling of the new life IN Christ.    two peoples and two ways to God through the same Son..

I would agree...

Jesus speaking of the commandments are the focus, rather the disqualification of people. No one lives up to these commands... that is prescicley (spelling) what Jesus wants to identify in the Jew, and us... NO ONE lives up to commmands.

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 01:51:32 AM »
John 14:12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

   13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

   14"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

   15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



John 14:21"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

   22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"

   23Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

   24"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.




I'm a little confused about something here...

If Jesus' death was the resolution of the Law of Moses, what then are Jesus's commandments?  Is it just to love one another?  or is it something else that I'm missing?    :dontknow:

1Timothy 2 to pray for all men everywhere is the New Covenant version of "seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all of these things will be added to you as well."  And it does say to do that FIRST OF ALL in 1Timothy 2.  Secondly, 1Thessalonians 4 says to hold one's body in sanctification and honor, including sexually, because those who reject this precept about keeping it for marriage with the opposite sex are rejecting God.  So, between these two, your trusting God to be the Saviour of all and Christ to be the ransom for all men and all situations as you're interceding for them, and if you're not out behaving like Tiger Woods but are being the husband of one wife or the wife of one husband, then you're keeping all of the law with protecting your health and honor and seeing to Kingdom matters as your love abounds more and more.

By bringing Jesus up as the ransom for all in 1Timothy 2, then He's assuring you as 1John says twice that you're praying the will of God and by praying what 1John says twice that you know you've got what you're praying for if it is the will of God, you've got confidence and not condemnation of your conscience in praying that such a thing would be as the testimony given at due time that Jesus has in fact ransomed absolutely all.  So, this IMPLIES Colossians 2:6-7 about you've received Christ Jesus with thanksgiving and your walk is each step taken with thanksgiving.  So, by bringing up His number 1 prayer priority and saying to treat the Temple of the Holy Ghost correctly, you'll be being filled with Holy Spirit speaking and singing the hymns and giving thanks well so that Holy Spirit isn't grieved.

So, basically, under grace, 1Timothy 2 and 1Thessalonians 4 about keeping it on the straight and narrow regarding your eyes, desires, and other bodily organs and He's cool with you, 100% 'cause all else is covered by the Cross of Christ as you very well know.  And 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 says that giving's not even a commandment but a test of your love by comparing it with others who give and receive sooo much and advance in every other grace as well.  And obviously if you're diligent in prayers for all men and are keeping a blameless testimony, then as your prayer life for all of Creation grows, then when He wants you to take part in the "Great Commission" then you'll more readily be equipped to go out there, giving no occasion to the adversaries to reproach your blameless and spotless conduct in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation among whom you'll shine as a light in the world holding forth the Word of life.

But it all comes back to your prayers for all, and treating that body with honor realizing it's zero different from the Bread and Cup if He's in you.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 03:28:01 AM »
 :cloud9: My  :2c:. The commandments are fulfilled spiritually, within the heart, when the ruler of your heart is Him. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 03:35:37 AM »
thats a big ten 4

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2010, 12:59:33 AM »
:cloud9: My  :2c:. The commandments are fulfilled spiritually, within the heart, when the ruler of your heart is Him. Blessings....
Spiritually yes, but that never means figuratively, otherwise we have a figurative Redeemer, a figurative Redemption, a figurative Sanctification, a figurative Wisdom, a figurative Righteousness and all of the New Agers wind up having been 100% right all along.

Syndicated

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2010, 01:48:04 AM »
Wow, most of that's a great clarification... thanks guys.

Just a few questions that came into my head while reading your post Martin...

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to hold one's body in sanctification and honor, including sexually, because those who reject this precept about keeping it for marriage with the opposite sex are rejecting God.  So, between these two, your trusting God to be the Saviour of all and Christ to be the ransom for all men and all situations as you're interceding for them, and if you're not out behaving like Tiger Woods but are being the husband of one wife or the wife of one husband, then you're keeping all of the law with protecting your health and honor and seeing to Kingdom matters as your love abounds more and more.

Does the commitment between a man and a woman have to be in marriage?  I know that there's a lot of people now that live together and have for years, and are not married, yet are still 100% committed to each other AND they believe in God.  Does this disqualify them from keeping the law?  Do you think they'll be punished in a way for this?  What's your take on it?

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this IMPLIES Colossians 2:6-7 about you've received Christ Jesus with thanksgiving and your walk is each step taken with thanksgiving.  So, by bringing up His number 1 prayer priority and saying to treat the Temple of the Holy Ghost correctly, you'll be being filled with Holy Spirit speaking and singing the hymns and giving thanks well so that Holy Spirit isn't grieved.

My opinion on this is that if I have already recieved Jesus, then my life has no choice BUT to change, and I will already be filled with the Holy Spirit who will MAKE me want to sing and give thanks, and that because of what Jesus did that there is no way that the Holy Spirit CAN be grieved with anything I do.  The way I read this made it sound that I still have to work on NOT grieving the Holy Spirit... isn't that then works?  Did I possibly misread what you wrote?

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2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 says that giving's not even a commandment but a test of your love by comparing it with others who give and receive sooo much and advance in every other grace as well.

This is something I don't understand... How come God would ask me to compare myself with other people in giving instead of focusing on the life He gave me?  Wouldn't that just cause us to judge ourselves as being not as good as other people if they give more than we do or can?  Or if they are blessed with more than we are?

Also, 2 Cor 8:7But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also...

Does this mean that God wants us to still preform works like giving?  How would you see this?

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And obviously if you're diligent in prayers for all men and are keeping a blameless testimony...  giving no occasion to the adversaries to reproach your blameless and spotless conduct in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation among whom you'll shine as a light in the world holding forth the Word of life.

I can understand being diligent in prayers but how can one keep a blameless testimony?  It seems rather impossible for a human to do.  Even though I have Christ in my life it doesn't mean that I won't still falter in my life as a believer.  If God still expects me to try to keep a spotless record I can honestly say right now and here that I WILL fail Him.  This is something I see as a 'works-based' belief.  This is something I was taught to do all my life, and this is the judgement based behaviour I am working to get out of.

The best that I can do is to be truthful with myself as to who I am, and not to try to be someone or to live a life that is a false representation of who I am through a works-based belief.  I know that God will still love me even though I fail Him and that He won't hold my humanity against me.... how can He when He's the one that created me?

As far as shining as a light to the world, I agree that living with Jesus in your life will give you the ability to do that without even thinking twice about it... you will radiate the love of God to the world.  I agree that having knowledge in the Word will better equip us (inwardly and outwardly) to share the love of Him who IS love to those in the darkness.

Livelystone

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2010, 03:41:43 AM »
:cloud9: My  :2c:. The commandments are fulfilled spiritually, within the heart, when the ruler of your heart is Him. Blessings....

Amen

When He spiritually is the ruler of our heart only then will all of His commandments be fulfilled to the point of every "jot &  tittle"

This is the only way that His commandments will be fulfilled and fulfilled they must be or the first resurrection has been missed.

Blessings

Doug

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2010, 04:19:41 AM »
Does the commitment between a man and a woman have to be in marriage?  I know that there's a lot of people now that live together and have for years, and are not married, yet are still 100% committed to each other AND they believe in God.  Does this disqualify them from keeping the law?  Do you think they'll be punished in a way for this?  What's your take on it?
I genuinely and deeply believe after a situation I saw last year, most especially, that there is genuinely no commitment and no depth, and I mean DEPTH of love, without the piece of paper.  I saw someone bail on someone that I never thought would, so...talk is cheap and apparently emotions are a dime a dozen and worthless.  Only reason for the lack of the marriage license is greed, selfishness, and cowardice.

To me, I'd liken it to believing one's self to be in a good place with God without Christ; to be saved without the Romans 10:9-10 confession that says is what makes your salvation good.  I was willing, going into last year, to entertain that commitment could stand for that piece of paper.  Wasn't fully persuaded of that in the least, 'cause I knew from my own experience with my late wife that the sex before and after the marriage ceremony FELT ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.  But after last year with what I saw between a couple of people, I'll never be convinced again that anything's less than an abomination to God without that marriage license registered with the county or perhaps something more cementing like a Catholic wedding where it can take the rest of your life to try to get out of that.  But minimally the county piece of paper, for goodness sakes.
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My opinion on this is that if I have already recieved Jesus, then my life has no choice BUT to change, and I will already be filled with the Holy Spirit who will MAKE me want to sing and give thanks, and that because of what Jesus did that there is no way that the Holy Spirit CAN be grieved with anything I do.  The way I read this made it sound that I still have to work on NOT grieving the Holy Spirit... isn't that then works?  Did I possibly misread what you wrote?
Lord Jesus said in Matthew 7 and St. Paul carried the same language and ideas into his epistles that those who hear His saying and do them have a house built on the rock that'll withstand the storms of life, but that the ruin of those who hear and don't do will be great, and James later in the New Testament gets nastier about it with placing a hearer that's not a doer in the same category as demons.
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This is something I don't understand... How come God would ask me to compare myself with other people in giving instead of focusing on the life He gave me?  Wouldn't that just cause us to judge ourselves as being not as good as other people if they give more than we do or can?  Or if they are blessed with more than we are?
Well, others are blessed much more than others because the hand of the diligent shall be made rich the Scriptures promise from cover to cover. The only argument that one ever finds one's self in with other believers is diligent at what, and the story of Mary and Martha in the Gospels lets us know where our diligence is to be.  And as far as acceptability to God, 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 say that it's according to what one has and not according to what one doesn't have, and Jesus singling out the woman that gave her last 2 mites (a type of coin back then) into the offering had outgiven the rich that were essentially tipping God with their fives and twenties.

As far as judging yourself, you're supposed to, because 1Corinthians 11 says that if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged with the world, but when we judge ourselves we're chastened by the Lord so that we won't be sick and prematurely die.  The Gospel of John tells us to make righteous judgments, and Proverbs and the epistle of James is all about judgment with carefully balancing in one's life the difference between the wisdom that is from above with what Ecclesiastes would call the wisdom that's under the sun that James refers to as pseudo-wisdom and demonic stuff.

We're to judge ourselves regarding whether we're being diligent, whether we're being doers of the Word and not hearers only, whether our lives and prayer lives are baring fruit, and whether we're treating our bodies and our spouses with honor, since Ephesians 5 says for the wife to honor the husband and 1Peter 3 says for him to honor her.  Paul's epistles say to make sure you're judging yourself about whether or not you're giving an employer the same level of service and excellence as you'd give the Lord.  Jesus said that for judgment He'd come into the world and the New Testament is all about judgment on what's love and what isn't.  It's the most judgmental book on the face of the earth because it teaches you how to discern between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Judgment isn't a bad thing.  It's when you're not rendering righteous judgments or are judging others by what they do and yourself by your good intentions and proceeding from a position of hypocrisy and lack of commitment that you run into problems if you open your mouth.  The New Testament is the White Throne that believers are to sit on and judge the nations as they preach the Gospel and command the repentance of every life on earth, their embracing and yielding to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and a proving of their repentance by their deeds in doing and saying everything in the Name of Lord Jesus while letting His Word dwell in one's heart richly in all wisdom as they confess it over and over again before His High Priestly ministry.
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Does this mean that God wants us to still preform works like giving?  How would you see this?
Every book in that New Testament emphasizes obedience.  We're called to a faith that works rather than to sitting on our blessed assurance and allowing the whole world to go to Hell in a hand basket.  Not of works, contextually to the first century hearer and per the context of the entire New Testament, is about not relating to God any more on the basis of the priesthood of Aaron, animal sacrifice, and circumcision.

But we are supposed to renounce ungodliness according to the teaching of God's grace in the epistle to Titus and prove that God's grace is growing in our lives by what we do.  All of the statements in this New Testament about it being by the faith of Christ means that it's by the faith that Jesus authors in your life through His High Priestly ministry, according to Hebrews, and your right relationship to the throne of God through the Scriptures as you approach your High Priest and fulfill your daily worship in being the express image of the invisible God, seated with Christ at God's right hand in everything you say and do.

Our lives are to be as diligent as His.  Ephesians 2:12-13 calls this a Covenantal relationship and Covenants automatically imply God has His part in what He does and we've got our part in what we do in intercession for the nations, and being barefooted priests that tread softly where the treatment of our bodies and one another is concerned as we grow more and more proficient in manifesting the Name of God in the same way that Lord Jesus did in John 17.

Otherwise, there would be no marriage with God and we'd merely be shacking up with Him and could be discarded on a whim, on an accusation, or whatever.  Marriage means both people bring all that they have into this marriage; the good, bad, and ugly, and it's not a matter of who brings more, but it's a mutual honor, admiration, adoration, and ceaseless tenderness, growing intimacy, and doing absolutely all you can for one another every single day and every single night.

Acts 13 in talking about the promotion of Saul and Barnabas from the offices of being prophets and teachers into Apostolic ministry says they were ministering to the Lord and fasting when Holy Spirit spoke saying to separate them to the work for which He has called them to.  He called them to a higher elevation of work.  Yes, it was a deeper level of grace, but it was a deeper level of grace that was about to work it's butt off harder than they ever did when they lived by the works of the Aaronic priesthood.

Romans 6 says to present yourself to God as alive from the dead and your members as instruments of righteousness for obedience.  Every book of the Bible, Old and New Testament has it's call to obedience and a few, including in the New Testament, growl at you about what you'll get if you don't.
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I can understand being diligent in prayers but how can one keep a blameless testimony?  It seems rather impossible for a human to do.  Even though I have Christ in my life it doesn't mean that I won't still falter in my life as a believer.  If God still expects me to try to keep a spotless record I can honestly say right now and here that I WILL fail Him.  This is something I see as a 'works-based' belief.  This is something I was taught to do all my life, and this is the judgement based behaviour I am working to get out of.
How's the 'works-based belief' working for you that says to do what thou wilt, harm none, that I don't mean to get ugly about on where that comes from -- but how's that working for you in place of taking Christ's yoke and being His disciple? :winkgrin:

Yes, His yoke is easy and His burden light, but it is a yoke and it is a burden.  God expects, fully expects for you to account each detail of Christ's life, teachings, sufferings, and glory -- each and every aspect of His glory and indestructible life -- as your very own and in your behalf and as the strength of your soul for doing greater things than He ever did or ever could, according to John 14:12.  That's New Testament Christianity.

The suffering of the believer is to account one's self as having ceased from one's own works towards and for self, and one's own sufferings to create one's fruit as is required under Moses's Law, and to consider one's self laboring to entered into His rest of meditation, speaking, doing, thanksgiving, and enjoying fruitful harvests from what one blesses, says, sanctifies, gives, receives, and does.  All else proceeds from evil.
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The best that I can do is to be truthful with myself as to who I am, and not to try to be someone or to live a life that is a false representation of who I am through a works-based belief.  I know that God will still love me even though I fail Him and that He won't hold my humanity against me.... how can He when He's the one that created me?
Only problem is claiming to be a believer and then don't believe it.  The wisdom that's from above, according to James 3, is without partiality and without hypocrisy.  The hypocrisy is claiming to believe it and then you won't do it, as he and St. Paul clarified again and again and again.

You're the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, if you've embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ, you are complete in Him, the head of all principality and power according to Colossians and 1Peter, and you've been given His Name according to John, Acts, and Ephesians.  You can do all things through His High Priestly ministry that strengthens you, and He meets all of your needs according to His riches in glory by the anointing that Jesus has as High Priest to see to it, according to Philippians.

According to Ephesians, Colossians, 1John, and 1Corinthians, you're the fullness of the Godhead in BODILY form.  That's who you are and nothing less if you've embraced His Lordship and are allowing the Word of Christ to dwell richly in you in all wisdom and are walking up and down in His Name according to Colossians and Zechariah.  You are His royal horse in the battle according to Zechariah 10:3, and all things are yours according to 1Corinthians, 2Corinthians, Hebrews, Ephesians, John 17, and many other passages and epistles of Scripture.
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As far as shining as a light to the world, I agree that living with Jesus in your life will give you the ability to do that without even thinking twice about it... you will radiate the love of God to the world.  I agree that having knowledge in the Word will better equip us (inwardly and outwardly) to share the love of Him who IS love to those in the darkness.
You sorta contradicted yourself saying this after saying all you'd never amount to in this life in Christ;-) :HeartThrob:

Offline Dallas

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2010, 06:44:10 AM »
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I genuinely and deeply believe after a situation I saw last year, most especially, that there is genuinely no commitment and no depth, and I mean DEPTH of love, without the piece of paper.  I saw someone bail on someone that I never thought would, so...talk is cheap and apparently emotions are a dime a dozen and worthless.  Only reason for the lack of the marriage license is greed, selfishness, and cowardice.

Because people who get married don't bail on each other?

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Only reason for the lack of the marriage license is greed, selfishness, and cowardice.

The only thing a marriage license provides are legal stipulations for responsibility, which are equalled by common-law status apart from paper.

It sounds like paper or not love wasn't the foundation of that relationship to begin with, so you put a blanket judgement over the whole topic?

I have been through divorce, and I'll tell you that paper held absolute sh&% meaning to her when she was sleeping with aonther person. It's easier to be dogmatic than understanding Martin.

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Well, others are blessed much more than others because the hand of the diligent shall be made rich the Scriptures promise from cover to cover. The only argument that one ever finds one's self in with other believers is diligent at what, and the story of Mary and Martha in the Gospels lets us know where our diligence is to be.  And as far as acceptability to God, 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 say that it's according to what one has and not according to what one doesn't have, and Jesus singling out the woman that gave her last 2 mites (a type of coin back then) into the offering had outgiven the rich that were essentially tipping God with their fives and twenties.

This type of preaching was to prove to people they weren't good, not how to be good. Jesus wasn't telling people how to act He was telling people they couldn't get into heaven based upon what they thought was good, based upon their behavior. You are living in the time of the acts church Martin, the last generation, you need to refresh your mind to what has come and get off of what was.

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Every book in that New Testament emphasizes obedience.
Obedience is trusting that because what Jesus did we are included and fully restored to God in all ways.

Do you even know where obedience became a bible issue, and why it came? I'm interested to understand this from your point of view, Why obedience?

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Yes, His yoke is easy and His burden light, but it is a yoke and it is a burden.

Well, get to work Martin, because God knows, you are far from perfect, and far from blameless and far from any end which would otherwise establish you.

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God expects, fully expects for you to account each detail of Christ's life, teachings, sufferings, and glory -- each and every aspect of His glory and indestructible life -- as your very own and in your behalf and as the strength of your soul for doing greater things than He ever did or ever could, according to John 14:12.

John 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."

Where does it say this?

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The suffering of the believer is to account one's self as having ceased from one's own works towards and for self, and one's own sufferings to create one's fruit as is required under Moses's Law, and to consider one's self laboring to entered into His rest of meditation, speaking, doing, thanksgiving, and enjoying fruitful harvests from what one blesses, says, sanctifies, gives, receives, and does.  All else proceeds from evil.

Seriously? Suffering to account yourself as stop working to produce fruit? That's suffering? Well I guess it's suffering when you live trying to gain your own self-righteousness and at the same trime try to stop....

I would agree with syndicated, you are preaching a works based gospel.

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Only problem is claiming to be a believer and then don't believe it.

It's only a problem based upon what you think it means to be a believer, if it means to take up my sword, to fight for Jesus, to spread the gospel against these heathen unbelievers,, well then count me out....

But if it's, because God loved me and the world so much that He secured me and them to an everlasting relationship with truth and freedom knowing Him... well then ya.

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You're the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, if you've embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ,

I thought you believed in all are saved, not disqualifying people and telling them why they aren't.

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You're the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, if you've embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ, you are complete in Him, the head of all principality and power according to Colossians and 1Peter, and you've been given His Name according to John, Acts, and Ephesians.  You can do all things through His High Priestly ministry that strengthens you, and He meets all of your needs according to His riches in glory by the anointing that Jesus has as High Priest to see to it, according to Philippians.

According to Ephesians, Colossians, 1John, and 1Corinthians, you're the fullness of the Godhead in BODILY form.  That's who you are and nothing less if you've embraced His Lordship and are allowing the Word of Christ to dwell richly in you in all wisdom and are walking up and down in His Name according to Colossians and Zechariah.  You are His royal horse in the battle according to Zechariah 10:3, and all things are yours according to 1Corinthians, 2Corinthians, Hebrews, Ephesians, John 17, and many other passages and epistles of Scripture

1 John, "You are as He is, in this world already..." I am, and need to do nothing, I am. You don't seem to fulfill your own preaching, you aren't as He is.....or are you now?

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As far as shining as a light to the world, I agree that living with Jesus in your life will give you the ability to do that without even thinking twice about it... you will radiate the love of God to the world.  I agree that having knowledge in the Word will better equip us (inwardly and outwardly) to share the love of Him who IS love to those in the darkness.

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You sorta contradicted yourself saying this after saying all you'd never amount to in this life in Christ;-)


Based upon how you have interpreted Syndicated's post I see how come you misread scripture. They were saying that as long as you are trying to establish yourself you will amount to nothing, but the effect of the reality of Jesus will transform you thus reflecting His qualities.


martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 06:51:54 AM »
 :HeartThrob: I love you, Dallas, no matter what :HeartThrob:

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 07:15:50 AM »
Because people who get married don't bail on each other?
Not people that God brings together to be together where the marriage was His intent between two people building their lives, and as Luke's Gospel says "digging deep" in the laying of the foundation of their home on the Word of God.  Doesn't happen with what God's put together, if it's submitted to Him and His Gospel always.  Marriage is of faith so that it would be by grace, but it also says in Scripture to avoid the appearance of evil and to test all things and hold fast only to the good.
I have been through divorce, and I'll tell you that paper held absolute sh&% meaning to her when she was sleeping with aonther person. It's easier to be dogmatic than understanding Martin.
I've been through divorce as well, and I personally thank God for that, that I can look back upon that as marriage rather than personal whoredom.  It simply was not to be because I made a series of bad decisions that weren't based upon either the Word or Holy Spirit.
This type of preaching was to prove to people they weren't good, not how to be good. Jesus wasn't telling people how to act He was telling people they couldn't get into heaven based upon what they thought was good, based upon their behavior. You are living in the time of the acts church Martin, the last generation, you need to refresh your mind to what has come and get off of what was.
Of course I'm living in the book of Acts.  I wouldn't want a powerless Christianity, and Jesus wasn't telling people to do what He told them to do because they couldn't, but so that they'd be just like their Master according to Luke 6:40 and about two dozen other passages that I could get into on the matter.  The Scriptures teach doing and saying everything as Him.
Obedience is trusting that because what Jesus did we are included and fully restored to God in all ways.
Precisely, reread my entire post.
Seriously? Suffering to account yourself as stop working to produce fruit? That's suffering? Well I guess it's suffering when you live trying to gain your own self-righteousness and at the same trime try to stop....
No, on the contrary, you're the one going about to establish yourself in your own righteousness and have not submitted yourself to the righteousness of God if it's not a life lived according to Holy Writ and Holy Spirit.
I would agree with syndicated, you are preaching a works based gospel.
I am teaching the Gospel that actually works, yes. :Sparkletooth:
It's only a problem based upon what you think it means to be a believer, if it means to take up my sword, to fight for Jesus, to spread the gospel against these heathen unbelievers,, well then count me out....
You were counted out a long time ago, per the Word of the Lord.  You've not understood manifesting the Name of the Lord according to Colossians 3:17.
But if it's, because God loved me and the world so much that He secured me and them to an everlasting relationship with truth and freedom knowing Him... well then ya.
Nobody was talking about your eternity. Sounds like you still fear for it.  That demonic lie of preterism not working for you any more?
I thought you believed in all are saved, not disqualifying people and telling them why they aren't.
You were completely mistaken in what my beliefs were then.  I believe that all men are to repent and embrace His Lordship and prove their repentance by their deeds and that the mandate of the Church is to compell them to come in, and by the prayers of the saints and the application of the atonement they not only secure their own salvation but that of the world so that in the dispensation of the fullness of times, He'd gather all things to Himself in Christ of those in the heavens and of those in the earth.  I'm thinking it's Jeremiah 33 that covers the latter fruits of redemption, but don't have a Bible handy.  All are not saved until they are saved, but the price has been payed to save all according to 1Timothy 2.  I never could stomach Hosea Ballou and Thomas Whittemore.  Time to get back in the Word;-)
1 John, "You are as He is, in this world already..." I am, and need to do nothing, I am. You don't seem to fulfill your own preaching, you aren't as He is.....or are you now?
Of course, I'm everything to the Father that Jesus is, according to John 17, just as you are, but we must obey the Word and the Spirit.  Romans 6, Romans 12, Ephesians 4 and 5 and everything else in the Word still applies regarding the transfigured life by the renewing of the mind and the anchoring of the soul and the sanctification of the mouth and body still applies.  I'm dealing in a Living Word whereas you believe in a Dead Word that has passed away.  The Scriptures have not passed away as in your preterist theology, bud. :HeartThrob:

Offline Dallas

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 07:23:24 AM »
And now that I call you out for the blaring inconsistencies with your preaching you try to put on a show, "oh I love you"

-Now everyone will see how good you are, that you are loving someone who disagrees with you...

I find it hard to respect you, and take what you say because of this phony behavior. :dontknow:


martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2010, 07:34:43 AM »
And now that I call you out for the blaring inconsistencies with your preaching you try to put on a show, "oh I love you"

-Now everyone will see how good you are, that you are loving someone who disagrees with you...

I find it hard to respect you, and take what you say because of this phony behavior. :dontknow:


I still love you more than ever :boyheart: Never going to change how much I intensely love you just as much as Father does, according to John 17.  But, I'm going to distinguish between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error and keep it clear with as much Scripture as possible on what an understudy of Christ looks like, who walks hand in hand, according to 1John 1:7, with their High Priest.

Offline Dallas

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 07:40:45 AM »
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Not people that God brings together to be together where the marriage was His intent between two people


So then your earlier testimony about that guy bailing shouldn't have unsettled you because it was simply something God didn't want.

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I can look back upon that as marriage rather than personal whoredom

So you have never been in a relationship outside of marriage? Does looking back as marriage make it different, I'll tell you straght forward that it means squat looking back at her bahavior through marriage or salvation, the behavior was junk through both, married or not.

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Of course I'm living in the book of Acts.  I wouldn't want a powerless Christianity

This explains why you are still waiting for the parousia and all His great things.... Just keep waiting.

 
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Jesus wasn't telling people to do what He told them to do because they couldn't, but so that they'd be just like their Master

You actually think you can become like Jesus by copying Him?!! Wow you are further off base than I thought!

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you're the one going about to establish yourself in your own righteousness and have not submitted yourself to the righteousness of God if it's not a life lived according to Holy Writ and Holy Spirit.

I believe that I am fully and completely as righteous as God because of what Jesus did... not because I do anything, unlike your testimony or obedience.

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You were counted out a long time ago, per the Word of the Lord.  You've not understood manifesting the Name of the Lord according to Colossians 3:17.

You have missed why He came, to enter rest and peace, not war and self-impossed judgement...

Quote
Nobody was talking about your eternity. Sounds like you still fear for it.  That demonic lie of preterism not working for you any more?

Again, you can't seem to understand the words right in fromt of you, how can you understand the bible? No where does my post even suggest these things, so you know I am already in eternity... unlike you I don't have to wait for His presence, I live in it because He lives. I have all things, you need to keep waiting... like all the prophets whom claim that this generation is His grat returning.... like they have been saying for 2000 years.

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but we must obey the Word and the Spirit
Which you aren't hearing in your visions, for the Spirit only testifies about one thing, that because of Jesus yo9u have been restored!

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I'm dealing in a Living Word whereas you believe in a Dead Word that has passed away.

You believe in a Word that hasn't been established and wait, I believe in the Living Word, the fullness that was and will always be established, through truth and reality...

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The Scriptures have not passed away as in your preterist theology, bud.

Don't know why you speak about things you obviously have no idea what you are commenting about, if you knew anything about preterism you wouldn't make such comments because they aren't based on fact just your biased and twisted understanding.

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 07:52:37 AM »
I'll tell you straght forward that it means squat looking back at her bahavior through marriage or salvation, the behavior was junk through both, married or not.
Because after all, you were amazingly easy to live with, right?
This explains why you are still waiting for the parousia and all His great things.... Just keep waiting.
Careful, or I'll demonstrate on the boards what I've already received in fullness;-)  Not tarrying any more.  Already have all power and authority both in heaven and in earth.
You actually think you can become like Jesus by copying Him?!! Wow you are further off base than I thought!
He said to do everything He does, duh!  Colossians 3:17, Philippians 3:17, Ephesians 5:1, 1Corinthians 4:16, 1Corinthians 11:1, 1John 2:6, and if you'd like, I can give you references for another 4 dozen of these on doing and saying everything in His Name.
I believe that I am fully and completely as righteous as God because of what Jesus did... not because I do anything, unlike your testimony or obedience.
The Scriptures and Holy Spirit MUST be obeyed.
You have missed why He came, to enter rest and peace, not war and self-impossed judgement...
He came to restore the image of God in the earth.
Again, you can't seem to understand the words right in fromt of you, how can you understand the bible? No where does my post even suggest these things, so you know I am already in eternity... unlike you I don't have to wait for His presence, I live in it because He lives. I have all things, you need to keep waiting... like all the prophets whom claim that this generation is His grat returning.... like they have been saying for 2000 years.
There is no 3 dimensional second coming, try again bud, with trying to label my theology;-)
You believe in a Word that hasn't been established and wait, I believe in the Living Word, the fullness that was and will always be established, through truth and reality...
No, the Word I stand on has been established by sacred Blood forever.  All you've gotta do is stand on it and walk it out for absolutely all of it's fruit;-)
Don't know why you speak about things you obviously have no idea what you are commenting about, if you knew anything about preterism you wouldn't make such comments because they aren't based on fact just your biased and twisted understanding.
Biased doesn't mean anything.  Just a subterfuge 'cause you're biased as well.  Everybody's biased, but I can inspect the fruit of preterism and how much it must set aside of the Word as not being relevant to a Christian's life as anything other than history.

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 07:53:54 AM »
And again, I still love you, Dallas, no matter what!! :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Offline Dallas

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 08:28:34 AM »
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Because after all, you were amazingly easy to live with, right?

That's my point, marriage or not, relationships are left in the hands of people, and people crap all over everything, so for you to blanket a statement that marriage is

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talk is cheap and apparently emotions are a dime a dozen and worthless.  Only reason for the lack of the marriage license is greed, selfishness, and cowardice.

Married or not people mess things up, to judge them for "this or that" is useless.

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Careful, or I'll demonstrate on the boards what I've already received in fullness;-)  Not tarrying any more.  Already have all power and authority both in heaven and in earth.

No you don't, you're weak, so weak you can earn rejection for not being obedient. Get to work sustaining your greatness, otherwise it's quite the fall.

Colossians 3:17, Philippians 3:17, Ephesians 5:1, 1Corinthians 4:16, 1Corinthians 11:1, 1John 2:6

Colossians 3:12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

some where in there we are told act like Jesus? Cause I see, after the effect of Christ within us we will display the same type of characteristcs and likewise behavior....as a result not trying to duplicate.

Philippians 3:17 "Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have '
 in us."

Again Martin, you want to see it is a copy cat show, then that's how you will see it. For others who may read this, God knows you can't copy Him, no one can...use good judgement.


This is Paul trying to ecourage people to trust in Jesus, not to copy thier behavior.

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The Scriptures and Holy Spirit MUST be obeyed

That's what I am promoting, obedience, trusting that because of what Jesus did I am righteous and fulfilled in all way already forever without fear to lose favor...and not just me but all people.

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He came to restore the image of God in the earth.

That's one part...

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There is no 3 dimensional second coming, try again bud, with trying to label my theology;-)

You are still waiting for His return to judge all people according to thier works and deeds, do play silly now...

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No, the Word I stand on has been established by sacred Blood forever.  All you've gotta do is stand on it and walk it out for absolutely all of it's fruit;-)

Show me one post I have ever said that I need to walk anything out to gain it's fruit... I will show you all and proclaim that I have and am all fruit!

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but I can inspect the fruit of preterism

No you can't. You can witness the fruit of preterism's followers, but not through them do you gain the understanding as a whole, because all men are flawed.

You must study it out, as you said test all things.... yet you say it but don't do it, you judge the idea based upon imperfect behavior.

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 08:39:45 AM »
I love you, no matter what, Dallas.  Wasn't judging anyone with what I said about marriage.  Was simply stating a fact that words and a heart to have commitment must be followed through on with that public testimony with the county that sink or swim, it's happening together.  Don't know where you get the rejection aspects on walking in the image of Christ that I've emphasized.  Don't know where you get that at all.  Was talking about keeping all things by the Word and Spirit.

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This is Paul trying to ecourage people to trust in Jesus, not to copy thier behavior.
Philippians 3:17 again, and lots of quotes from Timothy and Titus quite to the contrary.  Increased fruits of righteousness, in the language of 2Corinthians 9, are measureable in the lifestyle, it's consistency, it's wisdom, and it's expressions of limitless love.

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You are still waiting for His return to judge all people according to thier works and deeds, do play silly now...
Nope, His High Priestly ministry doesn't function that way. It operates in the spirit via the Word and actions that follow after the Spirit that's brought into manifestation through diligence to the Written Word.  The nations are judged everyday via the preaching of the Gospel, and many things are yet being fulfilled.  Doesn't reflect an incomplete atonement, but the revelation of the will of God through the manifestation of His Sons in recorded history.

martincisneros

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2010, 08:57:45 AM »
Dallas, further on this marriage issue: I've got the opposite experience.  The only thing I EVER did wrong -- EVER -- was I didn't have the strength to obey God about a 40 day fast that He spoke to me about during the October before that marriage fell apart.  But my behaviour was flawless.  Not going to say how much I spent on flowers in such a short marriage.  I've got no temper or patience issues.  I get frisky, rambunctious, and can get preachy, but your top 5 or 10 things that come to mind on why people screw up, more than likely, though obviously not seeing your list before sticking my neck on the chopping block, but most likely, never made those mistakes a single time.  But God didn't want me in THAT marriage, and I was clear about it going into it that I was basically on my own although my relationship with God was the greatest and had never been better right before, during, and since then.  I'm the last guy in the world to judge 'cause I DID EVERYTHING RIGHT -- AND IT STILL DIDN'T WORK OUT AT ALL!!  That's why I've got the dogmatism that it's gotta be the one and only that He picks out for you, if it's going to weather the storms when it's firmly set by the two people involved on His Written Word and obedience to His Spirit.  I don't judge in this matter at all 'cause I know that doing it right doesn't even blankety work, IF IT AIN'T THE RIGHT ONE.  Still certain I know the right one for me though, so, ask me again on that subject a few decades from now if you want to hear a testimony of amazing grace;-)

Offline rosered

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2010, 04:27:08 PM »
 
  It was by the hardness of your hearts that divorce is even permitted  through the Law of Moses
Mark 10
 
 2 Some Pharisees came and tried to trap him with this question: "Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife?"

 3 Jesus answered them with a question: "What did Moses say in the law about divorce?"

 4 "Well, he permitted it," they replied. "He said a man can give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away."

 5 But Jesus responded, "He wrote this commandment only as a concession to your hard hearts. 6 But 'God made them male and female' from the beginning of creation.
 
7 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, 8 and the two are united into one.' Since they are no longer two but one, 9 let no one split apart what God has joined together."

 10 Later, when he was alone with his disciples in the house, they brought up the subject again.
 
11 He told them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery against her.
 
  12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries someone else, she commits adultery."

hardened hearts cause alot of error  
 look at the Jews  in the Day of provocation , their  hard hearts brought on the wrath of God ..
 
 
hebrews 4  6 So God's rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. 7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:

   "Today when you hear his voice,
      don't harden your hearts"
 
 what is a hard heart anyways but   proud and disobedient to Him  , How does  God  deal with that but uttely humble them though loss .... much loss .. several examples in His Word   the Jews have had their place  with Goid taken away for a time till the fulness of the gentiles come in  

  the gentiles  are a blasphemous lot/ sinners  
   and the Jew are idolaters/unfaithful     what has God done and doing  
 testing the hearts of men / mankind all along ...
 peace .
 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:15:27 PM by rosered »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2010, 05:00:35 PM »
John 14:12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

   13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

   14"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

   15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



John 14:21"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

   22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"

   23Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

   24"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.




I'm a little confused about something here...

If Jesus' death was the resolution of the Law of Moses, what then are Jesus's commandments?  Is it just to love one another?  or is it something else that I'm missing?    :dontknow:




It is actually simple,  and it makes people mad (especially those who think others are going to hell forever) when you dare to say that there is not one person who has ever kept Jesus Commandments.


"This is my commandment, that you love one another
        as I have loved you." (John 15:12 )


All the other commandments are summed up in that one verse.  If you love as Jesus loves then you will follow Gods will precisely which means you will keep all his commandments, every last one.

But I do not love like Jesus loves me and I don't trust anyone who claims they do.

This does not mean we don't work towards that goal.   



Offline rosered

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2010, 05:12:11 PM »
 
   Very truthful Paul  , good thoughts
 who can judge ? who is without sin and never needed forgiveness ?
 who loves God first ?  
we are all striving to keep the  first command  which seems a high and constant goal  to reach /achieve .
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:16:43 PM by rosered »

Offline rosered

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Re: Commandments?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2010, 05:24:03 PM »
 

  There are those whom trust the scriptures  , and let them speak for them and there are those whom  do not even like scriptures to be used to correct us ..  :dontknow:
the new living translation
 
 Proverbs 17
 1 Better a dry crust eaten in peace
      than a house filled with feasting—and conflict.

 2 A wise servant will rule over the master's disgraceful son
      and will share the inheritance of the master's children.

 3 Fire tests the purity of silver and gold,
      but the Lord tests the heart.  

4 Wrongdoers eagerly listen to gossip;
      liars pay close attention to slander.

 5 Those who mock the poor insult their Maker;
      those who rejoice at the misfortune of others will be punished.

 6 Grandchildren are the crowning glory of the aged;
      parents[a] are the pride of their children.

 7 Eloquent words are not fitting for a fool;
      even less are lies fitting for a ruler.

 8 A bribe is like a lucky charm;
      whoever gives one will prosper!

 9 Love prospers when a fault is forgiven,
      but dwelling on it separates close friends.

 10 A single rebuke does more for a person of understanding
      than a hundred lashes on the back of a fool.

 11 Evil people are eager for rebellion,
      but they will be severely punished.

 12 It is safer to meet a bear robbed of her cubs
      than to confront a fool caught in foolishness.

 13 If you repay good with evil,
      evil will never leave your house.

 14 Starting a quarrel is like opening a floodgate,
      so stop before a dispute breaks out.

 15 Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent—
      both are detestable to the Lord.

 16 It is senseless to pay tuition to educate a fool,
      since he has no heart for learning.

 17 A friend is always loyal,
      and a brother is born to help in time of need.

 18 It's poor judgment to guarantee another person's debt
      or put up security for a friend.

 19 Anyone who loves to quarrel loves sin;
      anyone who trusts in high walls invites disaster.

 20 The crooked heart will not prosper;
      the lying tongue tumbles into trouble.

 21 It is painful to be the parent of a fool;
      there is no joy for the father of a rebel.

 22 A cheerful heart is good medicine,
      but a broken spirit saps a person's strength.

 23 The wicked take secret bribes
      to pervert the course of justice.

 24 Sensible people keep their eyes glued on wisdom,
      but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth.

 25 Foolish children bring grief to their father
      and bitterness to the one who gave them birth.

 26 It is wrong to punish the godly for being good
      or to flog leaders for being honest.

 27 A truly wise person uses few words;
      a person with understanding is even-tempered.

 28 Even fools are thought wise when they keep silent;
      with their mouths shut, they seem intelligent


 clearly we have lots to learn  to grow in truth and grace