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julzabro2

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Comments: Tracing Universalist Thought...
« on: August 15, 2007, 03:58:31 PM »
It is very good to know that there were UR all along. So far, for me, UR seems to be a deeper look into Scripture possibly due to full spiritual maturity. Am I close? All I know is that when I stumbled upon certain "nuggets" of truth while walking as a Christian....I always wondered why so few, IF ANY, could see what I was seeing.

Like a golden thread the Truth IS in the Bible but not all can see it.....yet.

Offline chuckt

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Comments: Tracing Universalist Thought...
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 05:47:08 PM »
It is very good to know that there were UR all along. So far, for me, UR seems to be a deeper look into Scripture possibly due to full spiritual maturity. Am I close? All I know is that when I stumbled upon certain "nuggets" of truth while walking as a Christian....I always wondered why so few, IF ANY, could see what I was seeing.

Like a golden thread the Truth IS in the Bible but not all can see it.....yet.



WOWZA........

its your old pal euty!!! woohoo.


how ya been julz???


chuckt..aka euty
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Offline reFORMer

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Comments: Tracing Universalist Thought...
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 08:51:57 PM »
MATURITY

     Whether in the wilderness or the outskirts of Babylon, it's night and the beautiful, peaceful light of the moon is focused on an elevated foundation where a few people with their bundles of stuff are camped.  If we approach to let them know they only have a partial foundation (repentance from dead works and faith on God,) that they only keep digging up and laying it again and they're not even trying to build a house; then, the young men (who're strong in the word mixed with undiscerned traditions) stand to repel the invaders.  Their concerns are in the "outer court" with the altar of sacrifice (the judgement for sin) and the laver (for cleansing from sin.)  This is much of how the church, its lambs, appear today.  The moonlight is only reflected from the brides garments.  To them it is false doctrine to even mention with understanding ""The Manchild" (of Revelation 12) that may already be in the brides birth canal.
     The rest of the foundation or rudimentary word of Christ (Hbr 6:1-3) continues on with laying on of hands, something they have a little knowledge of, but only allow their men approved other mediators to practice.  Rather than the babes practicing these basics as indicated they're told to be hearers only, not doers of the word by those who rule over them in a Gentile system of authority.  The next word in the beginners doctrine, baptizings, has been a call to war for a very long time.  The last two, resurrection of the dead and what was translated in the KJV as "eternal judgment" which they mostly think of as eternal torment, are either almost not even there or so permeated with error as to be more destructive than useful. That we next are to go on into perfection, maturity or finishedness is not much understood since they think we're headed to a perfect place in death rather than becoming perfect persons in the image of God to enjoy union with Him in transcendant life.
     When you can consistently fly about by the Spirit as Elijah or Ezekiel, be instantly transported as Phillip, walk on water as Jesus and Peter, command the wind and waves, stop the rain, multiply food, heal the maimed, not die...well, you get the idea about what maturity might look like.  It's not just about getting the right ideas.  (Did I mention "love?")  The "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" (Rv 19:6-9) is actually the wedding party when God and his bride people are united in resurrection, a physically incorruptible state.  The house of God has virgins (no intimacy with God,) fewer concubines (implanted seed but not running lawfully) and far fewer queens (those bearing inheritors.)   If there are to be Overcomers (Rv 2 and 3) there must be elders.  Knowing there is only one head to Christ's body they are always casting their crowns (of achievment) before the Throne (Rv 4:10)  They are fulfilled by men being in subjection not to themselves, but to the Holy Spirit.  "Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty." (2 Co 3:17)  The mature law is liberty (Jas.1); so, elders preserve the liberty for every member to participate and preventing whoever would take over the meeting from doing so.  To Literal Futurists we justify suggesting that in the end maybe God is saying He was really able to produce only four-and-twenty elders (Rv 4:4,9-10,) maturity is so rare.
     The mistranslated phrase "eternal judgment" is actually "judgment eonian" and means something like, "setting things right according to the age in which they occur."  The doctrine that is variously referred to as UR, Universal Reconciliation, or, Universal Salvation, Apocatastasis, and such is mostly this same category of teaching.  Being part of the foundation it's very important and none can go on to maturity without it.  They can become very significant persons and influential in the kingdom of God but not mature.
     I've tried to rethink my use of the phrase "spiritually mature" because I realize God's salvation includes spirit, soul and body.  I tend much oftener to simply say, "Mature."  It's true we should be disposed to spirit with our entire personality, but the way we're misled is due to the surprising persistence of Greek philosophy that entered the Institutional Church about the time it was becoming Christendom over a Millennia and a half ago.  Very much the same as Eastern Mysticism, often referred to as "The Perennial Philosophy," among other things it teaches the body realm to be illusory or bad compared to the more permanent and superior idea or ideal realm which became the realm of spirit in its adaption by Christian theorizers.  A more dour view of life was given Christians.  We were to be saved from creation rather than to save creation and enjoy it.  (Ooh, am I a glutton and a wine bibber?)  Those trained in Greko/Roman rhetoric, or the use of words, brought this Platonic thought in when they took the money Constantine dispensed from the coffers of the Roman Empire for a "Christian" Priesthood as they also also payed for priests of other religions to conduct orgies and human sacrifice.  For three hundred years there was a religion on the earth that was not like any other before.  Only just now it seems we may be trying to recover it.  It has no priest and no temples.  We are all the priests and we are the temple.  Certain leaders in present Institutional Christianity vehemently defy bringing these things to light even today.

---James Rohde
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 03:28:03 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

julzabro2

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Comments: Tracing Universalist Thought...
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 11:47:57 AM »
It is very good to know that there were UR all along. So far, for me, UR seems to be a deeper look into Scripture possibly due to full spiritual maturity. Am I close? All I know is that when I stumbled upon certain "nuggets" of truth while walking as a Christian....I always wondered why so few, IF ANY, could see what I was seeing.

Like a golden thread the Truth IS in the Bible but not all can see it.....yet.



WOWZA........

its your old pal euty!!! woohoo.


how ya been julz???


chuckt..aka euty

Hey!

Good 2 c u here!!! I was hopin some of u guys would come here...missed u  :HeartThrob:

I have been awol past few days...sry it took me long to respond if it did.... :mblush:

I can't wait to hear your thoughts!

Also to Reformer: that was very insightful! :thumbsup:

Offline chuckt

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Comments: Tracing Universalist Thought...
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 06:29:09 PM »
hey...

its all good your not missing much over there, cept the ussually labels and name calling.

im just plain tired of it.

see ya round here!!

God bless
chuckt
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