Author Topic: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused  (Read 28722 times)

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Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #300 on: February 20, 2009, 10:25:42 PM »

Tell us more.

This thread is doomed, anyways...

To purgatory or hell?

Is purgatory literal or figurative? Natural or spiritual?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #301 on: February 20, 2009, 10:26:55 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
You didn't ask me, but obviously, I would.  The shadow, also, is real, it's just not the whole story.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


So Molly, would you say the literal thing is the spiritual?

cp
If you want to put it that way, yes.

I would say the real thing is the 'spiritual.'

But, if you can only see the shadow, you have to start by defining it from the shadow.

And, to do that, you have to look at the shadow very closely.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #302 on: February 20, 2009, 10:27:49 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
You didn't ask me, but obviously, I would.  The shadow, also, is real, it's just not the whole story.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes Molly I agree...The shadow is real, One bearing witness to the other....I just dont see a seperation, althou both differ.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #303 on: February 20, 2009, 10:29:44 PM »

Tell us more.

This thread is doomed, anyways...

To purgatory or hell?

Is purgatory literal or figurative? Natural or spiritual?



purgatory is literal,  click here and see if it will handle you.

      http://www.purgatory.com/



Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #304 on: February 20, 2009, 10:31:32 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
You didn't ask me, but obviously, I would.  The shadow, also, is real, it's just not the whole story.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes Molly I agree...The shadow is real, One bearing witness to the other....I just dont see a seperation, althou both differ.
You don't see a separation because you are seeing through one eye?

But one is a function of the other.

The problem with the shadow is that we can't necessarily extrapolate the real thing correctly from the shadow.  That's why everyone disagrees on what the real thing looks like.  And, some think the shadow is all there is.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #305 on: February 20, 2009, 10:32:09 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
Thats rhetorical Right :icon_flower:

I know we can get Hung up on word defs....Kinda drives me nuts,My simplicity is FIRST the Natural , then the spiritual..The natural being the shadow of the spiritual reality is how I word it

Types and shadows,,as In Adam being Natural of the spiritual ADAM Christ

As with the Temple etc....



As Nat keeps saying and saying and saying :HeartThrob:


 :icon_flower:

why on earth would we wish to go back to the the Shadow :dontknow:



Taf, my point is, is that the word 'literal' seems to be misused. Does it matter? Only in the sense that I think we all still live in this physical world way too much. It is not our home. We compare things unconsciously with the physical. We say literal, meaning the physical, when we should be meaning the spirtual which, to me, is becoming the only real thing there is, all else is, as you say, the shadow.

Example........Goliath literally is our carnal mind, he was a physical being.

Maybe I'm way out to lunch here.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #306 on: February 20, 2009, 10:35:04 PM »

Tell us more.

This thread is doomed, anyways...

To purgatory or hell?

Is purgatory literal or figurative? Natural or spiritual?

Tony, define purgatory, preferrably in your own words.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #307 on: February 20, 2009, 10:37:32 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
You didn't ask me, but obviously, I would.  The shadow, also, is real, it's just not the whole story.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes Molly I agree...The shadow is real, One bearing witness to the other....I just dont see a seperation, althou both differ.
You don't see a separation because you are seeing through one eye?

But one is a function of the other.

The problem with the shadow is that we can't necessarily extrapolate the real thing correctly from the shadow.  That's why everyone disagrees on what the real thing looks like.  And, some think the shadow is all there is.

Molly . .that's the most profound thing that's been said yet!  Trying to embrace a shadow is impossible . . .trying to establish boundaries of a shadow is impossible . . . light is always on the move, causing the shadow to always shift . . . Very good observation . . . I love it!!

Cp, you're doing just fine . . . keep going with this . . .I can see it as sure as I'm sittin here . .but to explain it takes a body . . .not just one part of it.  I'll keep trying from my end, you keep going from yours . . .we're bound to meet cuz we're definitely on the same page with it. :happygrin:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #308 on: February 20, 2009, 10:39:11 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
You didn't ask me, but obviously, I would.  The shadow, also, is real, it's just not the whole story.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes Molly I agree...The shadow is real, One bearing witness to the other....I just dont see a seperation, althou both differ.
You don't see a separation because you are seeing through one eye?

But one is a function of the other.

The problem with the shadow is that we can't necessarily extrapolate the real thing correctly from the shadow.  That's why everyone disagrees on what the real thing looks like.  And, some think the shadow is all there is.

Yes Molly , Thats how I understand it..... :icon_flower:

Christ being the fulfilment\reality of the shadow , and yes some remain As I once did in the DARKNESS of it...quite Dark shadow egh?

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #309 on: February 20, 2009, 10:42:28 PM »
You all are great but I gots to run for a bit.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #310 on: February 20, 2009, 10:50:46 PM »
Quote
The real thing is casting the shadow.
Tis why its the SHADOW :icon_flower:

Amen Taf. Would you say 'The literal thing is casting the shadow?'

cp
Thats rhetorical Right :icon_flower:

I know we can get Hung up on word defs....Kinda drives me nuts,My simplicity is FIRST the Natural , then the spiritual..The natural being the shadow of the spiritual reality is how I word it

Types and shadows,,as In Adam being Natural of the spiritual ADAM Christ

As with the Temple etc....



As Nat keeps saying and saying and saying :HeartThrob:


 :icon_flower:

why on earth would we wish to go back to the the Shadow :dontknow:



Taf, my point is, is that the word 'literal' seems to be misused. Does it matter? Only in the sense that I think we all still live in this physical world way too much. It is not our home. We compare things unconsciously with the physical. We say literal, meaning the physical, when we should be meaning the spirtual which, to me, is becoming the only real thing there is, all else is, as you say, the shadow.

Example........Goliath literally is our carnal mind, he was a physical being.

Maybe I'm way out to lunch here.

cp

Nah Bro im with ya..just trying to explain in the terms  I understand......I agree...

If ya go back to Cards post..its a progression,...

Mollys Turn..shes been wicked lately.. :laughing7:

when Molly first came to Tent, much of what she understood was Literal , But slowly but surely she started seeing differently..I pmd her a couple of Mths back acknowleging it...Tis what Happened with me..and I suppose all of us...

Thesedays she compares spiritual with spiritual, again its different levels as I see it...

 :icon_flower:

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #311 on: February 20, 2009, 10:53:08 PM »
Yes, so when both eyes are seeing the same thing and seeing it perfectly--working at 20/20 so to speak--working together so to speak--we suddenly can see clearly because we are seeing through one eye.

Matthew 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 :cloud9: Single there means, "clear". Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #312 on: February 20, 2009, 11:00:00 PM »
Quote
Yes, it's figurative, but the figurative leads into the spiritual.  And the spiritual can only be seen when God "reveals" it to you through your relationship with him.

The ark was literal.  The tent of the meeting was literal.  The temple was literal.

What you are calling the spiritual aspect of any of those items is literal.

If you are seeing a shadow, it is of something that is real.  The real thing is casting the shadow.

Build it exactly to my specifications...

That's the one eye--both together--the miracle...


This thread is flying again . . .sheesh!  First off . .these things are not casting shadows . .they "are" the shadows being cast.  The substance casting them is Christ.  The tabernacle . . .the grandaddy of the shadows of Christ . . .it is a type and shadow . . .Hebrews states that.  

A shadow is without substance . .all it is, is the "form" of the substance.  The "act" of a literal animal sacrifice is "shadowing" the act of "the" sacrifice of Christ on the cross.  The physical lamb is a shadow of the spiritual Lamb.  The physical washing of the priests at the laver is a shadow of the cleansing of God in us as he equips us to enter into the ministry of the temple.

The temple is a shadow of Christ . . .the book of Revelation is an "unveiling" of CHRIST.  If you want to understand the book, you need to study up on the blueprint the book was taken from . .and that is the tabernacle.  You'll find every article of the tabernacle in the book of Revelation.

If you look down on the tabernacle from an areal view . . .you'll see Jesus stretched out on the cross . . .his feet are the altar of sacrifice, the spear in his side where water and blood came forth . . .water and blood was the contents of the laver . . .the candle stick giving light on his one hand, the table of shewbread that the light illuminated on the other hand . . .the altar of incense . . .another altar . . .fill your "mind" with heavenly "thoughts".  This is where the prayers of the saints are ushered up and mixed with praise.  And there lies the body . . .the desire of my own personal heart is that the church would see that it's not about the ministry in this temple . .but it's about the veil that's been removed and what lies beyond.  It's what the head is "crowned" with . .the presence of God that "renews" the mind.

All of these things are literal . . . but when you see how they are a shadow of Christ . .that's where they become spiritual . .when you take them in you on a "personal" level.  What? know ye not that YOU are a temple?  This is how Christ lives "in" you.  You are his dwelling place.  Once Jesus left the temple in Matthew 23, he never went back because his purpose was not to dwell in brick and mortar, but in a temple of flesh . . .soul and spirit.

While your elevated there . . .you see the articles mentioned form a cross.  Well . .outside the temple, each tribe was "assigned" a section where they would set up camp . . .and that formation also forms a cross as well. . . .AND . . ..  at the east gate of the temple is where Judah was assigned to always be.  Know why?

Judah means "praise".  If you want to enter into "this" realm of the temple . . .you can only come through praise.

Offline Sarah

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #313 on: February 20, 2009, 11:03:52 PM »
What a beautiful picture you've drawn Nathan!

Offline sheila

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #314 on: February 20, 2009, 11:09:05 PM »



                            :HeartThrob:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #315 on: February 20, 2009, 11:15:40 PM »
Glad ya mentioned FORM Nat....

As  of Rom 2-20 , Remained in the semblence (form)

b) the form befitting a thing or truly expressing the fact, the very form

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #316 on: February 21, 2009, 12:16:37 AM »

Tell us more.

This thread is doomed, anyways...

To purgatory or hell?

Is purgatory literal or figurative? Natural or spiritual?

purgatory is literal,  click here and see if it will handle you.

      http://www.purgatory.com/


Paul, I went there and found purgatory empty...so I left too.

Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #317 on: February 21, 2009, 12:19:12 AM »
Quote from: Nathan
This thread is flying again . . .sheesh!  First off . .these things are not casting shadows . .they "are" the shadows being cast.  The substance casting them is Christ.  The tabernacle . . .the grandaddy of the shadows of Christ . . .it is a type and shadow . .

That's what I said.

The shadow is a real shadow of a real object casting the shadow.

Christ is real.

Now what about this--even if I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...

wow--only the shadow can touch me, the real thing casting the shadow cannot...

therefore--I will fear no evil...

for thou art with me...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 12:22:40 AM by Molly »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #318 on: February 21, 2009, 12:23:15 AM »

Tell us more.

This thread is doomed, anyways...

To purgatory or hell?

Is purgatory literal or figurative? Natural or spiritual?

purgatory is literal,  click here and see if it will handle you.

      http://www.purgatory.com/


Paul, I went there and found purgatory empty...so I left too.


I got a "hello world" message and wondered for a moment.


Offline jabcat

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #319 on: February 21, 2009, 12:25:47 AM »
Yeah I saw that, but it didn't say "Hello Paul and James", so I'm out of there.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #320 on: February 21, 2009, 12:28:33 AM »
Quote from: Nathan
This thread is flying again . . .sheesh!  First off . .these things are not casting shadows . .they "are" the shadows being cast.  The substance casting them is Christ.  The tabernacle . . .the grandaddy of the shadows of Christ . . .it is a type and shadow . .

That's what I said.

The shadow is a real shadow of a real object casting the shadow.

Christ is real.

Now what about this--even if I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...

wow--only the shadow can touch me, the real thing casting the shadow cannot...

therefore--I will fear no evil...

for thou art with me...

Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #321 on: February 21, 2009, 12:37:13 AM »

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were made by God's word [By faith we understand the worlds to be shaped, or made, by God's word], that visible things were made of invisible things.

--Heb 11

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #322 on: February 21, 2009, 12:51:14 AM »
Yeah I saw that, but it didn't say "Hello Paul and James", so I'm out of there.


Well I have been accused of being worldly so I had to ponder.      :umnick:

SpiritDriven

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #323 on: February 21, 2009, 12:54:20 AM »
Hello Freinds,

Only Yesterday I had a Leaflet put in my letterbox....it warned of the consequences of burning in an ever lasting Hell.

Knowing Gods intentions for all I laughed to myself at being liberated from this sort of fear based religiouse bondage....and checked some of the Online Links written on the warning leaflet.

As it turned out they where all Roman Catholic Links.....not that I have anything against the RC Church....scripture does say that God has shut up all in disobedience that he may show mercy to all.

That would have to mean varying degrees of disobedience...surely ?

The RC Church is a big instituition, and they do a lot of good in the world as well, but I do get the feeling, that their left hand does not know what their right hand is doing theology wise...

Yet they profess to believe in Jesus....so that is enough for me.

Mind you I am left concerned about neighbours in my area, being touched by Demonic Doctrine in this particular instance, in regards to suggestion of ET.

Peace

Offline jabcat

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #324 on: February 21, 2009, 01:10:15 AM »

Only Yesterday I had a Leaflet put in my letterbox....it warned of the consequences of burning in an ever lasting Hell.  As it turned out they where all Roman Catholic Links.....

Interesting...so on the leaflets, if you go through the classes and become obedient to the RC "church", then you avoid hell?  At least make it into purgatory?

I had an old blind aunt...she was hilarious.  She told a story of a relative of hers that had died...I'll call him Ralph.  She said the catholics came to their house several times saying they needed to have a service and/or $ to work on getting Ralph out of purgatory.  They went along with it for awhile, but she said the last time the catholics came to the house, they didn't cooperate.  Instead the family told them "when Ralph was alive, he was a pretty good jumper.  Let him jump the rest of his way out".

« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 01:13:23 AM by jabcat »