Author Topic: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused  (Read 29178 times)

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Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #200 on: February 18, 2009, 08:59:27 PM »
Then let it go man, if we are guilty of the charge and are not repenting, you should rejoice rather than demand closure.  God is the one that brings the rewards . . .just let it go.

Paul says
2Cor. 12:21 Not again at my coming will my God be humbling me toward you, and I shall be mourning for many who have sinned before and are not repenting of the uncleanness and prostitution and wantonness which they commit."

I just want this for you, Brian and anyone else who character assasinated me so you don't have to go through grief, which you will go through.

I didn't get much sleep last night due to bringing this before God.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #201 on: February 18, 2009, 09:07:01 PM »
Then let it go man, if we are guilty of the charge and are not repenting, you should rejoice rather than demand closure.  God is the one that brings the rewards . . .just let it go.

Paul says
2Cor. 12:21 Not again at my coming will my God be humbling me toward you, and I shall be mourning for many who have sinned before and are not repenting of the uncleanness and prostitution and wantonness which they commit."

I just want this for you, Brian and anyone else who character assasinated me so you don't have to go through grief, which you will go through.

I didn't get much sleep last night due to bringing this before God.

If a person is spending time with God verses sleeping it is a very good thing in my book.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Brian

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #202 on: February 18, 2009, 09:48:35 PM »
Then let it go man, if we are guilty of the charge and are not repenting, you should rejoice rather than demand closure.  God is the one that brings the rewards . . .just let it go.

Paul says
2Cor. 12:21 Not again at my coming will my God be humbling me toward you, and I shall be mourning for many who have sinned before and are not repenting of the uncleanness and prostitution and wantonness which they commit."

I just want this for you, Brian and anyone else who character assassinated me so you don't have to go through grief, which you will go through.

I didn't get much sleep last night due to bringing this before God.

Well, for what it's worth, I do have the flu and was running a fever last night. But I do think Tony it's okay for two or three brothers to offer correction, constructive criticism, point out that what they hearing is causing them concern, expressing that concern and so forth. Without it having to take on dramatic reactions such as those brothers being in league with Satan, and calling upon the Lord to avenge you by punishing them. If you feel a brother, any brother, is off track, out of line, acting strange, being aloof, evasive, whatever. Should you keep silent or express your concerns? Just how is one supposed to go about such things?
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #203 on: February 18, 2009, 11:53:42 PM »
How should one handle such things? Like I'm doing. Trying to get them to quit character assasinating and to repent of these unfounded charges.

  • You don't call a brother a fool like you intimated, whether veiled or not.
  • You don't accuse a brother of being a troll, and falsely at that.
  • You don't wrongly accuse a brother as trying to post so he looks more knowledgeable like Nathan did and you agreed with his post.
  • You don't accuse me of being a false teacher, idol worshipper, luring people by the lust of the flesh, going after flesh in defiling lust, and acussing me of being a dog, etc. by saying this about my posts: "Suggested reading for this discussion group: 2 Peter 2" especially when I am allowed to give a biblical viewpoint on these boards.

Don't change the focus, Brian,
You and Nathan are just plain wrong in how you two hijacked this thread and went after me with your own agenda to try to discredit me.

Brian, God does not look at these things lightly. I suggest you and Nathan repent of these acts.

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline CHB

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #204 on: February 19, 2009, 12:30:36 AM »
How should one handle such things? Like I'm doing. Trying to get them to quit character assasinating and to repent of these unfounded charges.

  • You don't call a brother a fool like you intimated, whether veiled or not.
  • You don't accuse a brother of being a troll, and falsely at that.
  • You don't wrongly accuse a brother as trying to post so he looks more knowledgeable like Nathan did and you agreed with his post.
  • You don't accuse me of being a false teacher, idol worshipper, luring people by the lust of the flesh, going after flesh in defiling lust, and acussing me of being a dog, etc. by saying this about my posts: "Suggested reading for this discussion group: 2 Peter 2" especially when I am allowed to give a biblical viewpoint on these boards.

Don't change the focus, Brian,
You and Nathan are just plain wrong in how you two hijacked this thread and went after me with your own agenda to try to discredit me.

Brian, God does not look at these things lightly. I suggest you and Nathan repent of these acts.

Tony

Tony,

I know it is hard to do but just let it all roll of your back like water. Sometimes this is what happens when there is disagreement in beliefs. This same thing has happened to me a few times.

Ye have to be tuff man.  :spank: (Tit. 3:2) To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Jesus said "be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 

CHB

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #205 on: February 19, 2009, 12:33:07 AM »
Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 




Call someone a hypocrite, snake,  that they are of their father the devil?



Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #206 on: February 19, 2009, 12:45:40 AM »
Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 




Call someone a hypocrite, snake,  that they are of their father the devil?



Im TRULY Hoping this is a Joke Paul....

COS THIS father of  DEVIL LARK IS getting out of Hand...

Tis all Lies against HE who is the TRUTH...., a Murderer is One who HATES his Brother and persuades him to LIVE IN DEATH...NOT in LIFE WHO IS TRUTH...lies are DEATH, not TRUTH of the ONE WHO IS!

but  then we take scripture and USE it for ourselves.

Consider your tongue..Kinda shaped like a Snake egh....

SPITS poison which KILLS...as In LIFE and death are In the POWER of the TONGUE....funny how satan has the POWER of death also egh..ever see the connection :icon_flower:







Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline CHB

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #207 on: February 19, 2009, 12:46:45 AM »
Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 




Call someone a hypocrite, snake,  that they are of their father the devil?

 :laughing7: But Paul, who was Jesus speaking to? It wasn't another brother. These people were trying to kill him. If everyone on here called each other by these names what do you think would happen? A big BAN.

CHB

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #208 on: February 19, 2009, 12:49:49 AM »



I'm not calling anyone that,  just pointing out that it is not as simple as a phrase.

If I would call anyone those things it would be myself.



Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #209 on: February 19, 2009, 12:52:20 AM »
Quote
SPITS poison which KILLS...as In LIFE and death are In the POWER of the TONGUE....funny how satan has the POWER of death also egh..ever see the connection

Satan can just give death; he can't give life.

But our tongue is a double-edged sword?

Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #210 on: February 19, 2009, 01:55:54 AM »
How should one handle such things? Like I'm doing. Trying to get them to quit character assasinating and to repent of these unfounded charges.

  • You don't call a brother a fool like you intimated, whether veiled or not.
  • You don't accuse a brother of being a troll, and falsely at that.
  • You don't wrongly accuse a brother as trying to post so he looks more knowledgeable like Nathan did and you agreed with his post.
  • You don't accuse me of being a false teacher, idol worshipper, luring people by the lust of the flesh, going after flesh in defiling lust, and acussing me of being a dog, etc. by saying this about my posts: "Suggested reading for this discussion group: 2 Peter 2" especially when I am allowed to give a biblical viewpoint on these boards.

Don't change the focus, Brian,
You and Nathan are just plain wrong in how you two hijacked this thread and went after me with your own agenda to try to discredit me.

Brian, God does not look at these things lightly. I suggest you and Nathan repent of these acts.

Tony

Tony,

I know it is hard to do but just let it all roll of your back like water. Sometimes this is what happens when there is disagreement in beliefs. This same thing has happened to me a few times.

Ye have to be tuff man.  :spank: (Tit. 3:2) To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Jesus said "be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 

CHB

Thanks CHB for the good post. Good thoughts. I will try to heed your wisdom.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #211 on: February 19, 2009, 02:06:39 AM »
Quote
SPITS poison which KILLS...as In LIFE and death are In the POWER of the TONGUE....funny how satan has the POWER of death also egh..ever see the connection

Satan can just give death; he can't give life.

But our tongue is a double-edged sword?
..f

well Molly consider James...AND that of the Tongue,,that little helm which Guides the ships :icon_flower:

the tongue AND  THE double MINDED Man..TO ME SPEAKS OF BOTH LIFE AND DEATH

like most of scripture ,for mine speaks of Both Covenants.. the Ministry of DEATH and HIM.. THE NEW C....the spirit of  prophesy we speak..LIFE!

we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 02:09:04 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #212 on: February 19, 2009, 02:36:59 AM »
we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:

 :cloud9: Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it?  :winkgrin: 

We're blessed to be alive standing tiptoe waiting for the greatest outpouring of His Spirit the world has ever seen to bring in the final harvest. It is not an accident that we're here, or that these truths that angels have desired to look into and couldn't, have been given to us. Glory to You Father for Your mercy and grace among men, that we live to see this day. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #213 on: February 19, 2009, 02:38:52 AM »
we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:

 :cloud9: Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it?  :winkgrin: 

We're blessed to be alive standing tiptoe waiting for the greatest outpouring of His Spirit the world has ever seen to bring in the final harvest. It is not an accident that we're here, or that these truths that angels have desired to look into and couldn't, have been given to us. Glory to You Father for Your mercy and grace among men, that we live to see this day. Blessings....
AMEN

 :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #214 on: February 19, 2009, 03:01:16 AM »
we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:

 :cloud9: Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it?  :winkgrin: 

We're blessed to be alive standing tiptoe waiting for the greatest outpouring of His Spirit the world has ever seen to bring in the final harvest. It is not an accident that we're here, or that these truths that angels have desired to look into and couldn't, have been given to us. Glory to You Father for Your mercy and grace among men, that we live to see this day. Blessings....
I kinda wish to emphasise this Card-

  Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. ********************************************You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it***************************************

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #215 on: February 19, 2009, 03:43:55 AM »
we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:

 :cloud9: Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it?  :winkgrin: 

We're blessed to be alive standing tiptoe waiting for the greatest outpouring of His Spirit the world has ever seen to bring in the final harvest. It is not an accident that we're here, or that these truths that angels have desired to look into and couldn't, have been given to us. Glory to You Father for Your mercy and grace among men, that we live to see this day. Blessings....
I kinda wish to emphasise this Card-

  Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. ********************************************You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it***************************************

 :icon_flower:

Let me add an emphasis to the emphasis that Taf added to your thought, Card.  :dontknow:

The Word is alive. It is no dead thing. It lives and breathes and kills and makes alive. It is in us, around us and in it we live and move and have our being.

I just can't say what I want to but there ya go. It's the best I got right now.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Brian

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #216 on: February 19, 2009, 04:08:04 AM »
How should one handle such things? Like I'm doing. Trying to get them to quit character assasinating and to repent of these unfounded charges.

  • You don't call a brother a fool like you intimated, whether veiled or not.
  • You don't accuse a brother of being a troll, and falsely at that.
  • You don't wrongly accuse a brother as trying to post so he looks more knowledgeable like Nathan did and you agreed with his post.
  • You don't accuse me of being a false teacher, idol worshipper, luring people by the lust of the flesh, going after flesh in defiling lust, and acussing me of being a dog, etc. by saying this about my posts: "Suggested reading for this discussion group: 2 Peter 2" especially when I am allowed to give a biblical viewpoint on these boards.

Well, actually Tony, I was accusing other people of being fools (so to speak), if they feel someone else is foolish but they keep playing into his hands. I've encountered this in other forums where I was sure someone was stringing everyone along, and they were sure he was genuinely "unique". So, it's quite possible that I'm incorrect in being suspicious of you in those regards. Perhaps you really are as "unique" as you present yourself to be. When you get into a debate with someone and they seem to start making things up, side stepping, skirting around the issue, putting up a smoke and mirrors routine, then yeah, you have to come to the conclusion that they're trying, even if inadvertently, to sound more knowledgeable than they are.
My suggestion to everyone to read 2 Peter 2 was to put them on their guard regarding anyone who's out there who's attempting to teach them. You, Nathan, Martian - whoever.

Quote
Don't change the focus, Brian,
You and Nathan are just plain wrong in how you two hijacked this thread and went after me with your own agenda to try to discredit me.

Tony, this is my thread, that I started. I think you have your hijackers mixed up. I know my mistake was going after you more out of frustration than in love. If you read Matt Slick's comments on his CARM website about how Tentmaker went after him, you'll see there's nothing new about that. And while I certainly didn't go to those lengths, I didn't express myself as lovingly as I should have.

Quote
Brian, God does not look at these things lightly. I suggest you and Nathan repent of these acts.

And just what would you qualify as repentance in this issue?



For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Brian

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #217 on: February 19, 2009, 05:12:41 AM »
Molly, I can understand their aggravation. It is a hard and bitter pill to swallow when someone like me comes along and presents ideas counter to what Nathan, Brian and cp have held.

The pill only becomes hard to swallow when it's wrapped up in too much bologna.

Quote
So rather than change, they change the focus from where their theology is wrong to focusing on the messenger, me.

Oh, so we're all supposed to change/conform to someone's personal brand of theology? Even if the messenger is the inventor?

Quote
So rather than them seeing anything wrong on their end, they go so low as to accuse me of all manner of evil in the hopes that this refocusing on me will deflect away from them and their defects.

The pendulum has swung both ways in those regards.

Quote
Hey, they did it to Jesus when He brought to light all the bad theology of the Pharisees, scribes and Sadducees. And look what they did to Him. First, to deflect attention away from themselves they accuse Him of having a demon, being a drunkard and one who eats with sinners and born illegitimately. When that deflection didn't work they crucified Him.

I know Jesus. Jesus is a friend of mine. You are not Jesus.

Quote
I see these people are not repenting of this abuse of me so I must *sigh* give them over to God and let Him deal with them.

May He be merciful to them in that day[/size].[/font]

Do you like consider yourself God's anointed one? His special messenger, bringing special truth?
And that God will actually hold those accountable on that day who don't hold thee in the highest of esteem and that thou art beyond any reproach?
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #218 on: February 19, 2009, 05:32:57 AM »
Let me add an emphasis to the emphasis that Taf added to your thought, Card.  :dontknow:

The Word is alive. It is no dead thing. It lives and breathes and kills and makes alive. It is in us, around us and in it we live and move and have our being.

I just can't say what I want to but there ya go. It's the best I got right now. cp

 :cloud9: That's very true on so many levels cp.  :thumbsup: The visible Word and the waters below the firmament (ALL created that is under heaven) are one and the same thing, so truly in IT we live and move and have our being. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #219 on: February 19, 2009, 06:13:13 AM »
we either speak from the grave...DEATH\ hades.....or from the heavens \waters above etc...tis all the same..just repeated and recorded in types shadows et all :icon_flower:

 :cloud9: Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it?  :winkgrin: 

We're blessed to be alive standing tiptoe waiting for the greatest outpouring of His Spirit the world has ever seen to bring in the final harvest. It is not an accident that we're here, or that these truths that angels have desired to look into and couldn't, have been given to us. Glory to You Father for Your mercy and grace among men, that we live to see this day. Blessings....
I kinda wish to emphasise this Card-

  Amen yes it is the same.....He repeats the same messages over and over again, in types and shadows, and even in the meanings of the Hebrew letters themselves. ********************************************You think maybe He wanted to make sure none could miss it***************************************

 :icon_flower:

Let me add an emphasis to the emphasis that Taf added to your thought, Card.  :dontknow:

The Word is alive. It is no dead thing. It lives and breathes and kills and makes alive. It is in us, around us and in it we live and move and have our being.

I just can't say what I want to but there ya go. It's the best I got right now.

cp
Are you saying the Word is God?

Offline Brian

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #220 on: February 19, 2009, 06:34:47 AM »
Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"? 
Call someone a hypocrite, snake,  that they are of their father the devil?

 :laughing7: But Paul, who was Jesus speaking to? It wasn't another brother. These people were trying to kill him. If everyone on here called each other by these names what do you think would happen? A big BAN.

CHB

Well, I don't think He called the Pharisees hypocrites, snakes, and that they are of their father the devil because they were out to kill Him. He called them those things because they were:

Shutting the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. (Mat. 23:13-14)

Making converts twice as much a son of hell as the converters themselves are. (Mat. 23:15)

Claiming that swearing by the temple is nothing, but claiming that swearing by the temple's gold is everything. (Mat. 23:16-22)

Obeying the minutiae of the law (such as giving up a tithe) but neglecting the important facets (such as justice, and mercy) - metaphorically straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel. (Mat. 23:23-24)

Being shallow - metaphorically cleaning the outside of the cup and dish but leaving the inside full of greed and self-indulgence. (Mat. 23:25-26)

Hypocrisy - appearing righteous but actually being full of wickedness, metaphorically like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside, but full of dead men's bones. (Mat. 23:23-27)
Claiming that they would have behaved better than their forefathers - even though they build and respect the tombs of those who murdered the prophets. (Mat. 23:29-36)

Mind you this didn't apply to every Tom, Dick and Harry in Judea. But exclusively to the Priesthood.

The thing is. What's to keep a false, bad, misguided, delusional, wacky etc. teacher from comparing himself to Christ and those pointing out his error as Pharisees?
This is usually how it goes. I think the true divider is, if someone truly thinks someone to be a false, bad, misguided, delusional, whacky etc. teacher and points it out. Or if someone is purposefully maliciously attacking someone's character, reputation etc. Now the false, bad, misguided, delusional, wacky etc. teacher will of course accuse them of this.
And this is where God comes in: If someone is purposefully maliciously attacking someone's character, reputation etc. then they are of course under His judgment. However, if someone truly thinks someone is a false, bad, misguided, delusional, wacky etc. teacher and points it out, then they are either correct or simply mistaken. I listen to pastors and teachers on the radio all the time who point out those who they consider to be false, bad, misguided, delusional, wacky etc. teachers. But it's not being done out of malice or hatred or false motives, it's being done because that person sincerely believes the person they are addressing on the airwaves is false, bad, misguided, delusional, wacky etc. teacher.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 08:51:27 PM by Brian »
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #221 on: February 19, 2009, 12:35:09 PM »
Obeying the minutiae of the law (such as giving up a tithe) but neglecting the important facets (such as justice, and mercy) - metaphorically straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel. (Mat. 23:23-24)

Being the literalist that I am, I really do believe they swallowed camels back then. Says so in the bible! Yep! Sure does. :happygrin:

I liked what C.S. Lewis said about a camel passing through the eye of a needle, one long bloody thread from tail to snout. I think it was a poem.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #222 on: February 19, 2009, 12:59:11 PM »
Molly, I can understand their aggravation. It is a hard and bitter pill to swallow when someone like me comes along and presents ideas counter to what Nathan, Brian and cp have held.
Quote
The pill only becomes hard to swallow when it's wrapped up in too much bologna.

But balogna still has its good points. Every try frying it? Yummy.

Quote
So rather than change, they change the focus from where their theology is wrong to focusing on the messenger, me.

Quote
Oh, so we're all supposed to change/conform to someone's personal brand of theology? Even if the messenger is the inventor?

No, that's not the point. No one, myself included is telling you that you have to change/conform to the biblical perspective of what I've said. But these are message boards and last I looked, we are allowed to give our opinion of what we believe the Bible says on a given issue without the threat of being character assassinated.


Quote
So rather than them seeing anything wrong on their end, they go so low as to accuse me of all manner of evil in the hopes that this refocusing on me will deflect away from them and their defects.

Quote
The pendulum has swung both ways in those regards.

I have not accused you of all manner of evil in hopes of refocusing away from me.

Quote
Hey, they did it to Jesus when He brought to light all the bad theology of the Pharisees, scribes and Sadducees. And look what they did to Him. First, to deflect attention away from themselves they accuse Him of having a demon, being a drunkard and one who eats with sinners and born illegitimately. When that deflection didn't work they crucified Him.

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I know Jesus. Jesus is a friend of mine. You are not Jesus.

But, Brian, you see, that is where you are wrong. Everyone who is a true, genuine believer is Jesus. We have the spirit of Christ in us. We are in fact in the body of Christ and one member can't say to another member "I have no need of you." We as a plurality of believers are also the temple of God. So if you mistreat me you in fact mistreat Jesus.
When the nations will persecute Christ's brethren Christ will tell them" "When you do it to the least of these My brethren, you do it to Me." When Paul persecuted Christ's brethren Christ said: "I am Jesus Whom thou persecutest."


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I see these people are not repenting of this abuse of me so I must *sigh* give them over to God and let Him deal with them.

May He be merciful to them in that day[/size].[/font]
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Do you like consider yourself God's anointed one? His special messenger, bringing special truth?
And that God will actually hold those accountable on that day who don't hold thee in the highest of esteem and that thou art beyond any reproach?

Brian, you keep deflecting away from the real problem. It is not about me wanting people to hold me in highest esteem or that I believe I am beyond reproach. The point is what you and Nathan were doing in your attempts to character assassinate me because I held views different from you guys. You two got frustrated so you lashed out at the messenger. I am in Christ. I am a believer. Christ's spirit is in me. So when you abuse me, you abuse Christ. And what if I am a messenger of God? Where does that leave you who abuse such ones?

« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 02:05:30 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #223 on: February 19, 2009, 03:55:40 PM »
Tony, you wrote.......

Brian, you keep deflecting away from the real problem. It is not about me wanting people to hold me in highest esteem or that I believe I am beyond reproach. The point is what you and Nathan were doing in your attempts to character assassinate me because I held views different from you guys. You two got frustrated so you lashed out at the messenger. I am in Christ. I am a believer. Christ's spirit is in me. So when you abuse me, you abuse Christ. And what if I am a messenger of God? Where does that leave you who abuse such ones?

Tony, do you see yourself as in the wrong anywhere in this situation? I know you see yourself as the abused one who is wrongfully accused of so many things but do you view your behavior as Christlike in all of the the transactions in the threads you are involved in?

If you see yourself in the wrong somewhere could you please explain where you see yourself wrong?

Tony, one last thing, what if you are not a messenger of God? Where does that leave you who has been confronted and willed not to change but to defend himself, something Jesus did not do at the cross?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Catholicism and Hell... I'm so confused
« Reply #224 on: February 19, 2009, 04:00:41 PM »
Molly, I can understand their aggravation. It is a hard and bitter pill to swallow when someone like me comes along and presents ideas counter to what Nathan, Brian and cp have held.
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The pill only becomes hard to swallow when it's wrapped up in too much bologna.

But balogna still has its good points. Every try frying it? Yummy.

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So rather than change, they change the focus from where their theology is wrong to focusing on the messenger, me.

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Oh, so we're all supposed to change/conform to someone's personal brand of theology? Even if the messenger is the inventor?

No, that's not the point. No one, myself included is telling you that you have to change/conform to the biblical perspective of what I've said. But these are message boards and last I looked, we are allowed to give our opinion of what we believe the Bible says on a given issue without the threat of being character assassinated.


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So rather than them seeing anything wrong on their end, they go so low as to accuse me of all manner of evil in the hopes that this refocusing on me will deflect away from them and their defects.

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The pendulum has swung both ways in those regards.

I have not accused you of all manner of evil in hopes of refocusing away from me.

Quote
Hey, they did it to Jesus when He brought to light all the bad theology of the Pharisees, scribes and Sadducees. And look what they did to Him. First, to deflect attention away from themselves they accuse Him of having a demon, being a drunkard and one who eats with sinners and born illegitimately. When that deflection didn't work they crucified Him.

Quote
I know Jesus. Jesus is a friend of mine. You are not Jesus.

But, Brian, you see, that is where you are wrong. Everyone who is a true, genuine believer is Jesus. We have the spirit of Christ in us. We are in fact in the body of Christ and one member can't say to another member "I have no need of you." We as a plurality of believers are also the temple of God. So if you mistreat me you in fact mistreat Jesus.
When the nations will persecute Christ's brethren Christ will tell them" "When you do it to the least of these My brethren, you do it to Me." When Paul persecuted Christ's brethren Christ said: "I am Jesus Whom thou persecutest."


Quote
I see these people are not repenting of this abuse of me so I must *sigh* give them over to God and let Him deal with them.

May He be merciful to them in that day[/size].[/font]
Quote
Do you like consider yourself God's anointed one? His special messenger, bringing special truth?
And that God will actually hold those accountable on that day who don't hold thee in the highest of esteem and that thou art beyond any reproach?

Brian, you keep deflecting away from the real problem. It is not about me wanting people to hold me in highest esteem or that I believe I am beyond reproach. The point is what you and Nathan were doing in your attempts to character assassinate me because I held views different from you guys. You two got frustrated so you lashed out at the messenger. I am in Christ. I am a believer. Christ's spirit is in me. So when you abuse me, you abuse Christ. And what if I am a messenger of God? Where does that leave you who abuse such ones?


Tony, this is the last time I will address you on this whole matter . . .if you want to continue dragging it out, then let the readers discern where the truth lies.

You claim that because this is a forum, that everyone is simply sharing their opinions.  What I stated concerning you was just that.  For me, the telling nature of a mature person is one that knows what right thing should be done by another, but chooses not to instruct the offender to do what appears to be the right thing.  So you believe I should repent . . .I believe I have.  I do not apologize for what was said because I would be lying if I were to say I'm sorry, that I didn't mean it.  I'm not sorry, and I did mean it.  This is not to say I'm holding a grudge . . .but it was and still is my opinion . .and you've done nothing to disprove it as far as I'm concerned.  After rereading the original post on this that I wrote . . .there is really nothing there that is all that offensive . . . I didn't call you names, I didn't degrade you . . .I made it very clear that I was frustrated with how the conversation was going.  I was not lashing out in anger or attacking . . .if I was, I'm sure the mods would have deleted it.

I'm not above you . . you are not above me.  I have no bad feelings toward you, but I'm not going to submit to your thinking either.  You can think what you will, I'm not losing sleep over any of this.  What this is doing is the exact thing that I've said all along, you're argument over this is no different than what started this whole mess in the first place . . . it's all a distraction from what we are really here at these forums for.

I don't come here to bash or to be bashed . . .but when two people are at opposite ends, it happens on occasion where there are collisions.  After they occur, I get up, brush myself off and I move on.  For me, repenting is not saying I'm sorry for something I'm not sorry about . . .repenting is simply to stop doing it . . and I have.  But for you to continue stating my name in your conversation with others is not going to move me to apologize. 

I'm very comfortable with turning this entire thing over to the Lord and letting all of it go.  Are you willing to do the same?