Author Topic: Are we God's ant farm?  (Read 1507 times)

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Apoc

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Are we God's ant farm?
« on: November 10, 2011, 08:25:13 PM »
Why create a solution and a problem if you can create perfection? 
I suppose God did create perfection and then also some things less than perfect as to have variety?
So here we are, walking the earth, not quite in a perfect world as suffering abounds and we are waiting for the fate of heaven for this ultimate resolve.  I conclude that turmoil and suffering have value.  Maybe an art form. To suffer, to rejoice, must have purpose, that or we are a great accident. I don't ascribe to the accident idea, but it is starting to look like we might be an ant farm. God gives his only son to die on the cross.  Now we are an expensive ant farm. Say over time, the ant farm looks pretty bad.  Why not scrap it and get a new one? Now if it so happens that by some metaphysical principle the ant farm is like an appendage or even an offspring then it could be difficult to just dismiss for vital and sentimental reasons.  The more this ant farm is likely a part of God the more it seems this ant farm should start saving itself with some intrinsic abilities.

Thank you.  That was 6 slices of bacon, 3 eggs and two cups of coffee.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 08:36:49 PM »
Although he was a son, he learned obedience through the things he suffered. Hebrews 5:8

I believe this is the why

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 12:11:27 AM »
 :cloud9: My  :2c:  He wanted us to know love by experience, ie. to have a choice in it, regarding loving Him. Aside from that, the invisible God desired visibility. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Taffy

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 12:18:10 AM »
:cloud9: My  :2c:  He wanted us to know love by experience, ie. to have a choice in it, regarding loving Him. Aside from that, the invisible God desired visibility. Blessings....
:icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Apoc

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 10:35:08 AM »
- nice point redhotmagma about the obedience and with that reference. It addresses a lot of the conflicts I was bringing up.


- as for cardinal, your reference to love being a purpose starts to make sense if i apply the meaning long suffering. 

all together both responses have a way of supporting my one thought that suffering has value and that is why we were created to experience it in a purposely made imperfect world.  Without suffering there is no platform to show obedience.  Without suffering there is no ingredient for love.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 01:27:37 PM »
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, 1 Pet 1:22

Here's the outcome of obedience like Cardinal said :HeartThrob:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 01:37:25 PM »


How could we inherit the Kingdom if we stay in the loins of the Father?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 03:37:26 PM »
 :cloud9: Good point, Beloved..... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 03:48:26 PM »
   the 'loiins of the Father are spirit.  the spirit overcomes...no weapon formed against it will suceed....my word does not return void.

Apoc

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 12:13:09 PM »
beloved servant - i like your statement but don't summarize my original statement out of context and make it so easy to reply to.  I'm not getting at an idea of why were we ever born as much as I'm wondering why we were not made perfect or with more ability.  I guess my question is why didn't God make a better Adam and Eve and thus save himself from having to sacrifice Jesus?  This is not an attack on my faith or that of others.  It is just a pondering.  Im stating that God is so wise and of grand abilities that he could have made a perfect creation that would have not been so naive to turn to sin.

Offline Deena

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 04:27:36 PM »
Apoc, I too have wondered the same things, but the questioning has not been allowed in traditional churches. It is encouraging to me that others have these musings. About the worth of suffering--it makes me uncomfortable to think God uses suffering to teach us. As a mom i would not make that choice for my children. I do not allow them to play in the street to teach them its a bad idea. For me, the Father heart of God can surely do better. Frankly, i recognize i know little of God, but I need to believe He is nothing short of perfect goodness and love or im screwed.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 05:39:57 PM »
- nice point redhotmagma about the obedience and with that reference. It addresses a lot of the conflicts I was bringing up.


- as for cardinal, your reference to love being a purpose starts to make sense if i apply the meaning long suffering. 

all together both responses have a way of supporting my one thought that suffering has value and that is why we were created to experience it in a purposely made imperfect world.  Without suffering there is no platform to show obedience.  Without suffering there is no ingredient for love.
" Without suffering there is no platform to show obedience.  Without suffering there is no ingredient for love."

Doesnt this throw your "vicarious" theory out the window?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 05:40:32 PM »


How could we inherit the Kingdom if we stay in the loins of the Father?

 :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Apoc

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2011, 05:37:45 AM »
@Micah

No because I am not talking about laboring for eternal life.  The sufferings I am talking about are those that put us to the test here in the mortal world.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2011, 06:23:07 AM »


Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,

because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.

Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.

That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;

he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.



Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 06:24:49 AM »
@Micah

No because I am not talking about laboring for eternal life.  The sufferings I am talking about are those that put us to the test here in the mortal world.


The Scriptures teach to consider these "sufferings" JOY!
He is the Prince of Peace.

Offline Molly

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 06:56:54 AM »
beloved servant - i like your statement but don't summarize my original statement out of context and make it so easy to reply to.  I'm not getting at an idea of why were we ever born as much as I'm wondering why we were not made perfect or with more ability.  I guess my question is why didn't God make a better Adam and Eve and thus save himself from having to sacrifice Jesus?  This is not an attack on my faith or that of others.  It is just a pondering.  Im stating that God is so wise and of grand abilities that he could have made a perfect creation that would have not been so naive to turn to sin.

Because 'perfect' means union with Christ---and if we were all self sufficient and perfect unto ourselves, we would not seek out that unon.

That's why he says count it joy when you have trials and tribulations, because now you are brought into [seeking and finding] closer union with God.

Offline Molly

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 07:07:56 AM »
Apoc, I too have wondered the same things, but the questioning has not been allowed in traditional churches. It is encouraging to me that others have these musings. About the worth of suffering--it makes me uncomfortable to think God uses suffering to teach us. As a mom i would not make that choice for my children. I do not allow them to play in the street to teach them its a bad idea. For me, the Father heart of God can surely do better. Frankly, i recognize i know little of God, but I need to believe He is nothing short of perfect goodness and love or im screwed.

Think more about  teenagers and young adults, rather than little children.

Offline Green-Arrow

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Re: Are we God's ant farm?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2012, 08:36:13 PM »
No, we're not God's ant hill, we're His ant eater because the ant hill is Christ and the ants are all of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge that are in Him, according to Proverbs 30:24-25.  See John 6 :Sparkletooth: