Author Topic: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation  (Read 778 times)

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Offline Universalist Catholic

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Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« on: June 16, 2010, 09:20:18 PM »
They think that the only scripture that universalists use to support their beliefs is 1 Timothy "Who will have all man saved and come to the knowledge of the truth".  Most people says that "Will" really means "desires".  Only reason that is because if this were the only text, it would not be the strongest text, and they completely gloss over the second part

They tend to assume that Universalist believe in no judgment, and that everyone automatically gets saved no matter what with no chastisement. 

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 09:52:55 PM »
 :cloud9: Unfortunately (IMO) some universalists DO believe that. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 09:59:48 PM »



Hebrews 12:

 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 10:18:34 PM »
I think the best defence for universalism, against the tradditionist is the fate of the old testament prophets

For according to the traddionist theology people like David, Solomon, Daniel will have to burn in eternal hell.
For these men die without knowing the salvation of the cross.

Even though these men knew God, the sacrifices of animals did not take away the sins according to Paul.
They probably come up with things such as, it did not apply to them for Israel were Gods chosen people, but then wouldn't God be breaking his idea of being no respector of persons.

Jesus said that there were no greater, than John the baptist born of women, but yet he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Also I remember Paul saying that how we are given a better promise than the old saints, who had to endure the persuctions, yet did not receive the promise.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 10:28:28 PM »
to chastise
*to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
**of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
-of God
--to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
+to chastise with blows, to scourge
++of a father punishing his son
++of a judge ordering one to be scourged
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 10:36:06 PM »



A man found a cocoon for a butterfly. One day a small opening appeared, he sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared as if it had gotten as far as it could and could go no farther. Then the man decided to help the butterfly. He took a pair of scissors and snipped the remaining bit of the cocoon. The butterfly then emerged easily. Something was strange. The butterfly had a swollen body and shriveled wings. The man continued to watch the butterfly because he expected at any moment, the wings would enlarge and expand to be able to support the body, which would contract in time. Neither happened. In fact, the butterfly spent the rest of its life crawling around with a swollen body and deformed wings. It was never able to fly. What the man in his kindness and haste did not understand, was that the restricting cocoon and the struggle required for the butterfly to get through the small opening of the cocoon is Gods way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight once it achieved its freedom from the cocoon. Author Unknown.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Do Traditionalists know much about Universal Salvation
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 07:28:07 AM »
 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor