Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

Anyone read "Visions Beyond the Veil"?

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Liberty:
I've only just discovered the existence of a "Christian classic" called "Visions Beyond the Veil" by well-known missionary H.A. Baker (he is the grandfather of missionary Roland Baker).  Apparently he worked in China for many years and writes of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at a children's orphanage in the 1930's. He goes on to describe the many visions of heaven & hell the children experienced.  The book is still being published and well-praised according to my internet searches.  The entire book itself is available for reading at: http://godspeak.net/veil/veil_index.html

I scanned sections of it and chapter 7 seems to be especially disturbing to me!  Many of the children saw visions of hell & the lake of fire while getting the message that it was "too late" to help these victims and that they were beyond hope because they had not received the gospel!

Anybody have any info or insights re: this book or the author? :dontknow:

Thanks!

97531:
I also had a quick squiz at Chapter 7.  From the surface, I would surmise that because so many testimonies are of children, they are 2nd hand and my suspicion comes in what did they learn from this man.

Surely if you paint a picture of a merciless God and spare no effort in describing hell, then young and vulnerable minds can be manipulated to see "things".

The story is just that a story.

H. A. Baker was a missionary to China operating an orphanage in the Yunnan Province beginning in the early 1920s

I googled Mao Tse Tung and from one snippet

Mao Tse-tung. Son of a prosperous peasant, Mao was born in Hunan province on December 26, 1893. Although he worked in the fields from an early age, Mao also ...

So in 1920's he would have been 37-47.

A quote from this link

Son of a prosperous peasant, Mao was born in Hunan province on December 26, 1893. Although he worked in the fields from an early age, Mao also received enough schooling to develop an interest in learning. This drew him back to school at age 16. Next, he worked at various teaching jobs and became active in radical student groups. In 1921 he was a founding member of the Chinese Communist Party. Soon afterward, he began to develop his theory of the revolutionary potential of the peasantry, which deviated from the traditional Marxist-Leninist emphasis on the industrial proletariat.

After the bloody communist fallout with Nationalist Chiang Kai-shek in 1927, Mao established a base in the southern Kiangsi province. He began to put into practice his ideas about a revolutionary peasantry by way of a guerrilla war against the government. In 1934, Chiang's armies closed in, but the communist forces escaped for their "Long March" to the northwestern Shenshi province

Now I am not a scholar of China but needless to say, just a few digs and one can maybe get the setting in which these orphans were exposed to.  Being orphans would indicate a traumatic experience already in the lives of these children.  Add to that an ET teaching with kid's getting fried forever, and the stage is set.

I am not saying 2+2 = 4 here.  Just what we do not know is the author's exposed to theology and what did he teach the children, good news or bad news.  An outpouring of the "Holy Spirit" takes place, now bear in mind the culture of China is riddled with dragons and beasts, so buying into a myth of a fiery hell was not difficult.

What was the foundation?  That is a better question to ask than perhaps believing the account to be true. 

Add a bit of creative licence and wallah, you have another book that ET will promote to sell/substantiate their ET doctrines.

Look at your 2nd last paragraph


--- Quote from: Liberty ---I scanned sections of it and chapter 7 seems to be especially disturbing to me!  Many of the children saw visions of hell & the lake of fire while getting the message that it was "too late" to help these victims and that they were beyond hope because they had not received the gospel!

--- End quote ---

Just bolded a few.  That IMO equals fear.

"God's not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind"

Blessings

Zach:
It doesn't really help either side to take such "visions" as authoritative. After all, the pluralist can just quote a bunch of near-death experiences in response.

Michele:
I just read Chapter 7, and it just shows me and solidifies my view that visions at any age are a reflection/projection of the individuals belief or what the individual has mentally been fed over the years, and one thing that is important to remember is that visions are highly symbolic, and though they may appear as one familiar thing (whether beautiful or scary), they may be representing something much more profound than what is on the surface.

Liberty:
Thanks for the replies so far!  Yes, I can see that context is a major factor  - the political, social/cultural environment and definitely the spiritual influences would affect the experiences of these kids.  When I think about it, visions are comparable to dreams - symbolic rather than literal.

It makes me wonder if this really was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

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