Author Topic: water baptism for one  (Read 2223 times)

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Offline AJ

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Re: water baptism for one
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2010, 06:19:09 AM »

Someone named "SteppingStone" wrote at another sites:


Something I'm still looking into but it appears that the Baptism shifted from Water to Holy Ghost Fire in the book of Acts when the words of Christ were recalled..

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

At this point below they were still realizing that the Holy Ghost was being given prior to water baptism yet Peter was still commanding water baptism as well.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

From this point fwd it appears that Peter may or may not have realized that Baptism shifted from Water to Holy Ghost Fire because he was recalling the words of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

And here above Paul appears to be declaring that the power of God is in the cross, meaning death, burial, and resurrection is simply receiving the Holy Ghost. Otherwise why would he be trivializing water baptism and saying he doesn't teach it anymore?

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The message is from natural things to Spiritual things. John prepared the way of the Lord with the baptism of water repentance but the one greater did come and He did verily Baptize with Holy Ghost Fire..

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

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Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the "principles of the doctrine of Christ." KJV

other versions call them:
"the elementary teachings about Christ" NIV
"the elementary teaching about the Christ" NASB
"the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ" The Message
"the basic teachings about Christ" NLT
"the elementary principles of Christ" NKJV
"the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ" Amplified

These 6 basic or fundamental doctrines are listed as:
repentance from dead works
faith toward God
baptisms (plural)
laying on of hands
resurrection of the dead
eternal judgment

I've considered Hebrews 6 and it could possibly  be that water baptism was only intended until the Holy Ghost came on Pentecost.
I also noted in my original post that it appears that it took them a while to recall this because they were still doing both water and Spirit baptisms.
It's almost as if the water baptism of John was still under the time period of, "The Law & The Prophets."
Then grace came on Pentecost..



AJS writes:

I do not believe that it is necessary for a believer in Christ to be water baptized at all.
..
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism – yes… the early disciples did at the beginning baptize their converts in water,
…but I believe that God does NOT NOW count man's physical water baptism as essential at all.
 
Everything Jesus did was for mankind, thus by his own baptism everyone…. has been baptized into Christ…because he was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29)

The whole human race died and was buried (baptized) by the Messiah's baptism.
Any water baptism done now by a believer, it is simply getting him wet.
Thus, we should be teaching - the complete end of physical water baptism.


-
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Quaesitor

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Re: water baptism for one
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2010, 03:00:22 PM »
Interesting, but I do not agree with the Hebrews 6 arguments, all others things listed there are not to be abandonned but are just supposed to be simple teachings which should have been known by now, baptisms(plural) are of those.

I still think there's nowhere in the Scriptures where we see we have to stop baptising in water.

These verses are all unclear ones not advocating the end of water baptism, reminds me of those saying that prophecies and tongues are extinct based on 1Cor 13.

Interesting read nevertheless, thanks AJ. :happygrin:

Offline Green-Arrow

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Re: water baptism for one
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2012, 11:09:44 PM »
As the Bread and Cup are a reliving of everything He did in the redemption of our bodies and souls and THE WAY in which He's made known to us, according to Luke 24, water baptism has a similar purpose regarding our reclaimed, Christ-centered self esteem, because in water baptism what you're SUPPOSED TO BE reliving is Matthew 27:27-31 when a whole garrison ABSOLUTELY IMMERSED HIM in their spit.  Shouldn't be a "we have to," but "we get to," when we understand, when the opportunity is right, and it's a potential for great intimacy with Him when it's prompted by both understanding the aforementioned and the leading of His Spirit on the timing.

Offline Green-Arrow

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Re: water baptism for one
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2012, 11:20:13 PM »
As the Bread and Cup are a reliving of everything He did in the redemption of our bodies and souls and THE WAY in which He's made known to us, according to Luke 24, water baptism has a similar purpose regarding our reclaimed, Christ-centered self esteem, because in water baptism what you're SUPPOSED TO BE reliving is Matthew 27:27-31 when a whole garrison ABSOLUTELY IMMERSED HIM in their spit.  Shouldn't be a "we have to," but "we get to," when we understand, when the opportunity is right, and it's a potential for great intimacy with Him when it's prompted by both understanding the aforementioned and the leading of His Spirit on the timing.
Anyone facing real timidity about going fully forward with some aspect of the will of God for their lives that's right then in their face every single day should genuinely consider, besides receiving communion as often as possible, spending hours and hours in Matthew 27:27-31, really focusing on all that He substituted for us in what should have happened to us -- the just for the unjust in the words of the Apostle Peter -- and as a matter of faith pursue being water baptized with that new level of consciousness of Matthew 27:27-31: looking unto Him, as we're told in Hebrews, that as easily applies to this subject of water baptism.  There's no reason to believe that water baptism has to be any more a one time event than being filled with His Spirit or receiving communion.  There are examples of further dimensions of His Spirit that they entered into in Acts, from glory to glory, and it says regarding communion to do it often in Remembrance of Him.  I personally believe that when done IN ACTUAL FAITH on Matthew 27:27-31 that whatever is our equivalent of spiritual opposition to our inheriting of what's before us HAS TO FALL BEFORE US in our baptism, the way the soldiers collapsed when they went to arrest Lord Jesus.  Every single thing He did and does is for us, in our behalf, and to burst the dam in our lives that's held back all of His blessings so that they cannot be held back any longer.  Water baptism done in faith UNQUESTIONABLY would be a New Testament way of forcing our own walls of Jericho to collapse!