Author Topic: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET  (Read 6216 times)

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Tim B

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2009, 05:34:36 AM »

Not to be discouraging (so I hope this is more encouraging than discouraging) but for as far back as I can remember I would pray to God to reveal himself to me so that I would "know" him (as others said that "they" did), but after many years of praying and begging and pleading with Him - to no avail - I gave up altogether and figured I would just find out when I die. And it wasn't until I was in my 30's (about 5 years ago) that God finally revealed himself to me in such a way that I did not doubt for a second that it was God reaching out to me. So, it is my experience that God can and will find us wherever we are, but it certainly doesn't come by demand or by any other timetable but His. Sometimes it doesn't even seem to come by prayer and seeking... because it does take so long, sometimes, unfortunately.  :gsigh:


I can definitely relate to the text I bolded, about giving up, in a different sense. I grew up always listening to people saying that they heard God say "this and that" to them, and I wanted to hear God too. I would try and listen for him, but I could never seem to decipher his words from my own thoughts in my head. Eventually though, I realized that rather than speak to me through my mind, he would speak to me through others or life circumstances, in answer to my prayers. So, since that revelation, I've more or less given up on hearing him "in my thoughts," but just continue to pray and hope for the best, even though I don't really hear any particular "calling" or "direction" in "my thoughts" from God. The closest thing that I've got to that, and I wouldn't even necessarily say it's in my thoughts, but rather my heart, is: love others. I feel that love is the absolute most important thing on this planet, and if God exists, and is love as the apostle John proclaimed, then the best thing I can do is love others. To me, there may be no other calling higher than this.  :boyheart: :girlheart:

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2009, 05:46:07 AM »

Not to be discouraging (so I hope this is more encouraging than discouraging) but for as far back as I can remember I would pray to God to reveal himself to me so that I would "know" him (as others said that "they" did), but after many years of praying and begging and pleading with Him - to no avail - I gave up altogether and figured I would just find out when I die. And it wasn't until I was in my 30's (about 5 years ago) that God finally revealed himself to me in such a way that I did not doubt for a second that it was God reaching out to me. So, it is my experience that God can and will find us wherever we are, but it certainly doesn't come by demand or by any other timetable but His. Sometimes it doesn't even seem to come by prayer and seeking... because it does take so long, sometimes, unfortunately.  :gsigh:


I can definitely relate to the text I bolded, about giving up, in a different sense. I grew up always listening to people saying that they heard God say "this and that" to them, and I wanted to hear God too. I would try and listen for him, but I could never seem to decipher his words from my own thoughts in my head. Eventually though, I realized that rather than speak to me through my mind, he would speak to me through others or life circumstances, in answer to my prayers. So, since that revelation, I've more or less given up on hearing him "in my thoughts," but just continue to pray and hope for the best, even though I don't really hear any particular "calling" or "direction" in "my thoughts" from God. The closest thing that I've got to that, and I wouldn't even necessarily say it's in my thoughts, but rather my heart, is: love others. I feel that love is the absolute most important thing on this planet, and if God exists, and is love as the apostle John proclaimed, then the best thing I can do is love others. To me, there may be no other calling higher than this.   :boyheart: :girlheart:

Your post made me smile, Tim. 
And the bolded REALLY made me smile.  :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2009, 05:55:21 AM »
Intimidating?
That will change.

That is what we are created to do — and it is a response to Him — not a first action on our part.

Ahh, to walk again with the Lord in the cool of the day!

Well, intimidating in the sense that it's something that I can't do - I've tried many times - and sometimes when I look at all those who are like that I begin to secretly have thoughts that maybe God doesn't want me as much as he wants others.  Which is an entirely un-Biblical thought, I know - but it's a persistent one nonetheless.

I understand.
While never envious, I am amazed with people like J. Preston Eby and others who have been given a tremendous ability to communicate the scriptures.
That said, these abilities are gifts of the Spirit and nothing of their own doing.
And when we seek the Lord with all our heart we find ours.
The potter makes some vessels for honour and some dishonour.
If it's His desire that I live a life without fame — or fortune, who am I to argue? And nor do I care.
Righteousness, peace and joy are found in Him and His grace is always enough to ensure that we endure through all things — wherever we find ourselves along the path of mercy.

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2009, 05:58:19 AM »
Intimidating?
That will change.

That is what we are created to do — and it is a response to Him — not a first action on our part.

Ahh, to walk again with the Lord in the cool of the day!

Well, intimidating in the sense that it's something that I can't do - I've tried many times - and sometimes when I look at all those who are like that I begin to secretly have thoughts that maybe God doesn't want me as much as he wants others.  Which is an entirely un-Biblical thought, I know - but it's a persistent one nonetheless.

Perhaps that part of themselves is hidden from view.
Maybe that is the main difference, some conceal it, some let it show.
Many people don't feel comfortable showing what they consider to be weakness.
That may be all it is. Some folks only feel comfortable being "weak" in front of God, not others.
"weak" meaning having doubts, insecurities, going through dark times, etc.

And fight off that persistent thought. You know it's not true. Though it may whisper in your ear... you know it's a lie. I've had similar thoughts so I know where you're coming from.

Remember each of us have a purpose. We should never compare our journey with anothers. It's something I have to remind myself every single day of my life. We are all on a unique journey and our life cannot be compared with anyone else's. God is doing unique things through each and every life. We can't see the whole picture now.


Our weakness, God's glory.

peace to ya...
I like your posts.
and am Glad you're here.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2009, 05:59:13 AM »
Righteousness, peace and joy are found in Him and His grace is always enough to ensure that we endure through all things — wherever we find ourselves along the path of mercy.

 :thumbsup:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Chris

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2009, 06:01:40 AM »

Not to be discouraging (so I hope this is more encouraging than discouraging) but for as far back as I can remember I would pray to God to reveal himself to me so that I would "know" him (as others said that "they" did), but after many years of praying and begging and pleading with Him - to no avail - I gave up altogether and figured I would just find out when I die. And it wasn't until I was in my 30's (about 5 years ago) that God finally revealed himself to me in such a way that I did not doubt for a second that it was God reaching out to me. So, it is my experience that God can and will find us wherever we are, but it certainly doesn't come by demand or by any other timetable but His. Sometimes it doesn't even seem to come by prayer and seeking... because it does take so long, sometimes, unfortunately.  :gsigh:


I can definitely relate to the text I bolded, about giving up, in a different sense. I grew up always listening to people saying that they heard God say "this and that" to them, and I wanted to hear God too. I would try and listen for him, but I could never seem to decipher his words from my own thoughts in my head. Eventually though, I realized that rather than speak to me through my mind, he would speak to me through others or life circumstances, in answer to my prayers. So, since that revelation, I've more or less given up on hearing him "in my thoughts," but just continue to pray and hope for the best, even though I don't really hear any particular "calling" or "direction" in "my thoughts" from God. The closest thing that I've got to that, and I wouldn't even necessarily say it's in my thoughts, but rather my heart, is: love others. I feel that love is the absolute most important thing on this planet, and if God exists, and is love as the apostle John proclaimed, then the best thing I can do is love others. To me, there may be no other calling higher than this.  :boyheart: :girlheart:

I absolutely agree!!  :thumbsup:

It is by/through LOVE that we are "made perfect". Not even "all knowledge" trumps LOVE.  :grouppray:

I don't "hear" from God "that way" either. If he does speak to me through my mind/thoughts I'd have to say that it's generally through the scriptures, as I read and study them and grow (hopefully, by the will and grace of God) in understanding.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2009, 06:21:37 AM »
I grew up always listening to people saying that they heard God say "this and that" to them, and I wanted to hear God too. I would try and listen for him, but I could never seem to decipher his words from my own thoughts in my head.

 :cloud9: There is definitely merit in the other part of your post to be sure, but I just wanted to touch on this, if I may. I learned to hear Him to begin with thru reading His Word. I had asked Him early on for His Spirit to teach me, not having any clue how that could happen, but I believed the scripture that we need not that any man teach us, but that He would teach us.

So the way it started was, I would be reading a particular part of scripture, when another part of scripture would instantly come into my mind out of seemingly nowhere, and it was not readily obvious that it was connected to the first one I was reading. But I found, time and time again, when I went to the passage that came into my mind as a thought that I recognized was not mine (since I was concentrating on what I was reading), that both passages were connected in some way.

A few dozen times of this, and I knew I had my answer to prayer. He speaks as a thought, which initially, until we really know His character and His Word, is usually only scripture. In a few months after conversion, a friend and I started having weekly bible studies, and we prayed for people for everything under the sun.

Pretty soon, other thoughts were coming in, in the same still "voice" I had learned to recognize from studying the scriptures, only this time it was about specifics of healings they needed that they did not express,  or things in the person's life (word of knowledge). My friend was experiencing the same thing, in the same pattern of Word first, then praying for others, as far as learning how to hear Him.

So I'm saying this to comfort and encourage all those that think they don't hear Him. It's entirely possible and even extremely probable that you ARE hearing Him at least in the study of the Word, and just don't yet realize it. He absolutely does speak to us in a lot of different ways, as well as this. No righteous man would have a child then never speak to it, and man is not more righteous than God. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2009, 06:28:20 AM »
God often speaks to us through simple realities.
He is a child's smile and the distant star.
A flower that suddenly attracts our attention.
And the sound of our name,
on the lips of those we love.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2009, 07:33:59 AM »
p.s. Willie, can I be the green one? Green is my favorite color. Thanks!  :winkgrin:
Sparrows usually are brown.
Green sparrows usually are called parakeets.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2009, 07:36:52 AM »
p.s. Willie, can I be the green one? Green is my favorite color. Thanks!  :winkgrin:
Sparrows usually are brown.
Green sparrows usually are called parakeets.

I'm an enigma.







 :laughing7:


"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2009, 07:39:11 AM »
I've tried many times - and sometimes when I look at all those who are like that I begin to secretly have thoughts that maybe God doesn't want me as much as he wants others.  Which is an entirely un-Biblical thought, I know - but it's a persistent one nonetheless.
Want or shows? I think elect is something Biblical. (not the ET type)
So I think it's not that odd you don't see everyone equally close to God.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Gab

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2009, 08:17:00 AM »
I understand.
While never envious, I am amazed with people like J. Preston Eby and others who have been given a tremendous ability to communicate the scriptures.
That said, these abilities are gifts of the Spirit and nothing of their own doing.
And when we seek the Lord with all our heart we find ours.
The potter makes some vessels for honour and some dishonour.
If it's His desire that I live a life without fame — or fortune, who am I to argue? And nor do I care.
Righteousness, peace and joy are found in Him and His grace is always enough to ensure that we endure through all things — wherever we find ourselves along the path of mercy.

I know, and I don't curse God or my fate or anything like that.  Like I said elsewhere, it's just painful sometimes.  And, at other times, confusing.

Perhaps that part of themselves is hidden from view.
Maybe that is the main difference, some conceal it, some let it show.
Many people don't feel comfortable showing what they consider to be weakness.
That may be all it is. Some folks only feel comfortable being "weak" in front of God, not others.
"weak" meaning having doubts, insecurities, going through dark times, etc.

And fight off that persistent thought. You know it's not true. Though it may whisper in your ear... you know it's a lie. I've had similar thoughts so I know where you're coming from.

Remember each of us have a purpose. We should never compare our journey with anothers. It's something I have to remind myself every single day of my life. We are all on a unique journey and our life cannot be compared with anyone else's. God is doing unique things through each and every life. We can't see the whole picture now.

Our weakness, God's glory.

peace to ya...
I like your posts.
and am Glad you're here.

Well, for me I suppose it's almost a sort of a perverse hope rather than a belief.  I suppose everyone has their own demons in life, and mine is a persistent feeling of inferiority, of not deserving the same as everyone else.  It's not as bad as it used to be - during my teenage years I managed to lose both my girlfriend and almost all the friends I had because I was such a depressant that after a while no one wanted to deal with me anymore.  But it's still around.

In some sense, it's a blessing - it makes it very easy to willingly and happily give to others what they need with no expectation whatsoever of repayment.  And my episode as a teenager made it exceptionally easy to be empathetic and compassionate towards others who are in pain.  So, in that respect, I would certainly prefer it without a moment's hesitation to the other extreme.  But, in other ways, it's a problem - however readily I may give away, I find it very hard to be OK with the receipt of a gift that I know I can't repay in full.  And I tend to feel guilty asking people for favors, preferring instead not to be a bother to anyone and to try to work things out by myself.

So, it's not really that I need to believe... it's more that I need to want what we are promised.  It's kind of funny - when preachers talking about eternal torment say that no one deserves heaven, but that it is a free gift that we ought to embrace warmly, most people stumble over the first part, assuring themselves that they do deserve heaven.  I, however, stumble over the second part.

Want or shows? I think elect is something Biblical. (not the ET type)
So I think it's not that odd you don't see everyone equally close to God.

I suppose, in thinking about the verses you likely have in mind, that that would follow.

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2009, 08:58:58 AM »
Well, for me I suppose it's almost a sort of a perverse hope rather than a belief.  I suppose everyone has their own demons in life, and mine is a persistent feeling of inferiority, of not deserving the same as everyone else.  It's not as bad as it used to be - during my teenage years I managed to lose both my girlfriend and almost all the friends I had because I was such a depressant that after a while no one wanted to deal with me anymore.  But it's still around.

In some sense, it's a blessing - it makes it very easy to willingly and happily give to others what they need with no expectation whatsoever of repayment.  And my episode as a teenager made it exceptionally easy to be empathetic and compassionate towards others who are in pain.  So, in that respect, I would certainly prefer it without a moment's hesitation to the other extreme.  But, in other ways, it's a problem - however readily I may give away, I find it very hard to be OK with the receipt of a gift that I know I can't repay in full.  And I tend to feel guilty asking people for favors, preferring instead not to be a bother to anyone and to try to work things out by myself.

So, it's not really that I need to believe... it's more that I need to want what we are promised.  It's kind of funny - when preachers talking about eternal torment say that no one deserves heaven, but that it is a free gift that we ought to embrace warmly, most people stumble over the first part, assuring themselves that they do deserve heaven.  I, however, stumble over the second part.


Y'know what..that all makes perfect sense to me.
Thanks for sharing more about your perspective.
I've had a bit of that "inferiority" gig going on over here on my path, too.
But you're right in that it has definitely cultivated compassion and empathy for others.  :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2009, 09:18:11 AM »
So, it's not really that I need to believe... it's more that I need to want what we are promised.  It's kind of funny - when preachers talking about eternal torment say that no one deserves heaven, but that it is a free gift that we ought to embrace warmly, most people stumble over the first part, assuring themselves that they do deserve heaven.  I, however, stumble over the second part.

 :cloud9: You know, when you're in the midst of it, it's very easy to feel like you're the only one. But I honestly don't know of anyone that has not felt this way, and it comes from a spirit of unworthiness the enemy of our souls fostered upon us, and it is a lie.

No, we are not worthy because of anything we have done or could do, but we ARE WORTHY because in Him we are kings. He is King of kings and Lord of lords. We are sons of the King. Our life is hid in Christ. For one thing that means our true identity is hid in Christ, and we must take everything He says we are to heart in faith.

We are more than conquerors because we are sons of the Most High. Lift your head up, because you ARE worthy in Him, and He is appearing in your heavens more and more with each passing day. You were made for such a time as this, for the King to have a vessel to be seen in. Blessings to you......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2009, 09:22:45 AM »
That was beautiful, Cardinal.. :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Gab

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2009, 10:12:09 AM »
Y'know what..that all makes perfect sense to me.
Thanks for sharing more about your perspective.
I've had a bit of that "inferiority" gig going on over here on my path, too.
But you're right in that it has definitely cultivated compassion and empathy for others.  :HeartThrob:

:cloud9: You know, when you're in the midst of it, it's very easy to feel like you're the only one. But I honestly don't know of anyone that has not felt this way, and it comes from a spirit of unworthiness the enemy of our souls fostered upon us, and it is a lie.

No, we are not worthy because of anything we have done or could do, but we ARE WORTHY because in Him we are kings. He is King of kings and Lord of lords. We are sons of the King. Our life is hid in Christ. For one thing that means our true identity is hid in Christ, and we must take everything He says we are to heart in faith.

We are more than conquerors because we are sons of the Most High. Lift your head up, because you ARE worthy in Him, and He is appearing in your heavens more and more with each passing day. You were made for such a time as this, for the King to have a vessel to be seen in. Blessings to you......

Well, thanks; it helps a lot just to be reminded that there are those out there who understand and feel the same.  And I mean that sincerely - I think often when I'm out interacting with other people who have their "public faces" on, it can be difficult to keep in mind that I'm not the only person in the world who has problems I don't show to the masses.

jesushandsarekindhands

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2009, 02:58:22 PM »
Shadow, i think your quite a lot like me.  You tend to hear a 'bad' thing in the bible or something that does'nt make sense to you and you get yourself in a state about it.

Remember i was saying, how can a God of love command armies to kill men women and children etc?  Well apparently he had his reasons.

Have a read of this...


The Egyptian babies you speak of were not "slaughtered"; they simply died. YHWH ordered the death of all male firstborn in Egypt because of PHAROAH'S refusal to let God's Chosen People (the Jews) leave Egypt and their Egyptian bondage. If you'll remember, God gave Pharoah NINE OTHER CHANCES before hard-headed Pharoah finally got the picture that GOD was in charge! NINE CHANCES! Ask yourself this: If someone was holding your family captive, abusing them in various ways, and making them perform slave labor - how many chances would YOU give before finally "zapping" the perpetrator?

YHWH ordered the death of those people in the land of Caanan because - as He had told Moshe (Moses) long before - the land would be given to the people of Israel (the Jews). The fact was, at that time, anyone who wasn't an Israelite was considered to be a heathen/pagan because they did NOT worship the true Creator, and therefore, God had no allegiance to them. (Why should He???) You can rest assured that God would have spared a given city in Canaan if there had been 10 righteous people living in it — or at least save the righteous people as he did at Sodom and Gomorrah. Rahab and her family in Jericho were spared in Joshua 6, although the city and the other people were destroyed. So we can establish that either no one or a tiny handful of innocent people were killed during the course of the conquest of Canaan. Of course, any innocent, Godly people would have gone to heaven and not be vexed by the wickedness around them, so even that could be considered a "deliverance".

So, "why kill these wicked people at all?" Consider this: if someone in your neighborhood occasionally killed children and sacrificed them on an altar, would you want this person to continue living there? Most people would decide that such a person deserves the death penalty. God responds the same way. The fact is that God ALWAYS finds out the truth (for instance, read the entire story of Sodom, and you will see) and then renders fairly in His execution of judgment. If you are FOR God, then you have nothing to worry about: Even in death you will be better off, for you will get to spend eternity with Him.

Apparently in other places God had to get rid of certain 'races' (Nephilim?) because they were so evil right down to their bloodline, people were killing their babies and putting them in Jars, having sex under crazy statues while their babies were roasting in flames to be sacraficed to other Gods, some were eating their own children....SO...What im saying is that when God tells his people to slay 'everyone and everything' in a particular place, i guess we just have to accept his judgements as being righteous, because we dont know the full story of what was going on, and if we read the book of Jonah, about how God saved that city...

Jonah 4
Jonah's Anger at the Lord 's Compassion
 1 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. 2 He prayed to the LORD, "O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live."

 4 But the LORD replied, "Have you any right to be angry?"

 5 Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live."

 9 But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?"
      "I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."

 10 But the LORD said, "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"


And then in the story of Sodom and Gomorah we hear how God even listens to men when it comes to mercy and judgement...

20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

 22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD. [e] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare [f] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge [g] of all the earth do right?"

 26 The LORD said, "If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake."

 27 Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?"
      "If I find forty-five there," he said, "I will not destroy it."

 29 Once again he spoke to him, "What if only forty are found there?"
      He said, "For the sake of forty, I will not do it."

 30 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?"
      He answered, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."

 31 Abraham said, "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?"
      He said, "For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it."

 32 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?"
      He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."

 33 When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.


I love you Shadow, but try not to be like me...quick to judge and get yourself in a silly panic.  Sometimes we just have to accept that we dont have all the answers but be 'grounded' in the fact that God is good.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2009, 05:50:38 PM »
 :cloud9: That was really a good balanced article IMO, Marc........thanks for posting that. It put into words for me why I believe about the OT the way I do. He is righteous and just and compassionate, no matter what it appears to our carnal mindset. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Seth

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2009, 07:03:20 PM »
Personally, I'm glad to have some around who have doubts or uncertainties - being around only those who seem to have no doubts or uncertainty whatsoever and who seem to spend every waking moment glorifying God can be, I am forced to admit, a little intimidating. :laughing7:

Even after believing the truth, it took me a long time to be confident about it and trust in it. It took years actually.  :HeartThrob:

Gab

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2009, 10:34:15 PM »
The Egyptian babies you speak of were not "slaughtered"; they simply died. YHWH ordered the death of all male firstborn in Egypt because of PHAROAH'S refusal to let God's Chosen People (the Jews) leave Egypt and their Egyptian bondage. If you'll remember, God gave Pharoah NINE OTHER CHANCES before hard-headed Pharoah finally got the picture that GOD was in charge! NINE CHANCES! Ask yourself this: If someone was holding your family captive, abusing them in various ways, and making them perform slave labor - how many chances would YOU give before finally "zapping" the perpetrator?

I'm not really sure if I understand this explanation.  It talks about "zapping the perpetrator", but the perpetrator was the Pharaoh.  The Pharaoh wasn't "zapped"; every male firstborn was.  This would be akin, if someone were holding my family captive, to killing every single firstborn male in the town in which he lives and somehow acting as though that teaches him a lesson.

There's also the fact that God even directly states that he will harden the Pharaoh's heart so that he will not let the people go (Exodus 4:21), and then sends these punishments to all of Egypt as a result.  If you prevented someone from doing something and then punished the entire town in which he lives for not doing what you have prevented him from doing, I don't think many would think that that made much sense.

It's for the above reason that I still struggle to explain this particular story in the Bible.

Chris

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2009, 10:50:21 PM »
Perhaps it has to do with the natural manifestation of spiritual truths? At least that is how I see it - or "reason" through it.

So when it comes to the death of every man, woman, and child, and even beast of the field, I see this a depiction of the spiritual truth that "all flesh" must be destroyed.

The same is true of the death of "the first born". Life and immortality was never mean to come through the first Adam (the first-born), but through the Last Adam (the second man).

It is "the second man" (that "hidden man of the heart", that "inward man" that must increase as we decrease, that "new creature" created in Jesus Christ) that is "the Lord from heaven" (and we His body .... ONE NEW MAN).

Maybe that can be seen as "excusing" God or something, but certainly there is a reason for our existence if, in fact, there is a creator... and a reason for the evil that we see and experience in this world (as "an experience of evil" was given unto men to humble them, say the scriptures).

Just my  :2c:

Shadow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2009, 10:56:45 PM »
Quote
I love you Shadow, but try not to be like me...quick to judge and get yourself in a silly panic.  Sometimes we just have to accept that we dont have all the answers but be 'grounded' in the fact that God is good.

Thanks for your post, am glad you are here too :bgdance:

I have to confess though I can see where Gab is coming from with his response though, maybe in time I'll see it differently

For what its worth, although I have doubts at times, I underwent 18 months of sheer hell due to the ET doctrine, and I was led to this forum over a year ago, I know how you feel you want UR to be true, but you also have to KNOW that it's true, but there must be a reason why I went through such an intense nightmare, the thing is though I was forced to look elsewhere as the ET churches couldn't answer me, now I'm finding their doctrines don't make sense anymore, but UR does.

Here is a book I'm going to read which I think could answer a lot of questions we have here (somehow I've missed this before)

Hansons 4 works.pdf

The Bible Hell
                                      
Aion and Aionios
                                      
Bible Threatenings Explained
                                      
Bible Proofs of Universal Salvation

Shadow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2009, 11:02:22 PM »
PS thanks for all the supportive comments everyone posted in this thread, I really didn't know so many people cared :HeartThrob: :bgdance:, I hope one day I can return the favour to someone that may need it

jesushandsarekindhands

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2009, 11:54:46 PM »
Quote
I love you Shadow, but try not to be like me...quick to judge and get yourself in a silly panic.  Sometimes we just have to accept that we dont have all the answers but be 'grounded' in the fact that God is good.

Thanks for your post, am glad you are here too :bgdance:

I have to confess though I can see where Gab is coming from with his response though, maybe in time I'll see it differently

For what its worth, although I have doubts at times, I underwent 18 months of sheer hell due to the ET doctrine, and I was led to this forum over a year ago, I know how you feel you want UR to be true, but you also have to KNOW that it's true, but there must be a reason why I went through such an intense nightmare, the thing is though I was forced to look elsewhere as the ET churches couldn't answer me, now I'm finding their doctrines don't make sense anymore, but UR does.

Here is a book I'm going to read which I think could answer a lot of questions we have here (somehow I've missed this before)

Hansons 4 works.pdf

The Bible Hell
                                      
Aion and Aionios
                                      
Bible Threatenings Explained
                                      
Bible Proofs of Universal Salvation


See there you go again, you heard my version of the story and then you heard Gab's and Gabs version made you doubt!  I saw it!

The fact is we cant know everything!  Nobody does! It's not for us to know! 

All we can do is love each other and help each other and hope...

....Who is going to accuse us if we do that? 
Will God punish us just because we tried? 
I hardly think so! 
Lets keep trying and keep each other strong.

Jesus said "Forgive them father, they don't know what they're doing!"

That about says it all doesn't it? 
Even as he was being hung up by the people God had created he was still forgiving them.

Everyone is different in life, everyone has so many beliefs and faiths and if you were to tell all your problems to someone, more often than not, nobody would understand because most people haven't been what you have been through but one thing is for sure, each person would help you in their own little way.  You have to accept that help each person offers, even if it doesn't seem like much.  When the chips are down most humans are pretty damn good at helping others albeit in their own way.

If you were to call 100 random people in the phone book and ask them how they would help you each person would give you a different answer.
What people mostly agree on is that the world could use a bit more love in it.

It's time you face a fact here. 
RELIGION cant help you, if anything it will just keep giving you more problems to sort out, and you know that until your head can grapple them and sort them out THERE IS NO PEACE.
It's love you have to keep striving for, then everything else makes sense.

You have a chance today to make a difference in someones life. 
You have a chance today to love people, you can choose today between love or fear.
You can choose today 'death or life'.

YOU have to make that choice.  You can't lye on your bed all day hoping for a miracle.  Sometimes God doesn't help people until they first help themselves.

I'm telling you right now.  I love you.  I really do, and if i do, then you are guaranteed that God does.  I'm sitting here right now, and believe it or not, i feel your sorrow, i feel your pain.  I want to help you.
I'm asking you now, please don't despair or cry...You know what I want you to do instead? 

I want you to think about someone special in your life.  Someone you really love and care about.  Think about all the things theyve done for you, about all the happy times yous have had together.  DONT think about the times they let you down or you let them down!  IT DOESN'T MATTER!
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER!  IT's GONE! In the past!  Swish! Its over!

This is a NEW DAY, a day for you to shine like never before.  DON'T hold onto all those contradictory passages in your mind....John said this, Paul said that blah blah blah.  Don't try to figure it out because the bottom line is that Jesus said "Forgive them, they don't know what they are doing".

Look around you!  Have a good long look at people...Do any of them 'really' know what they are doing?
I spoke to a Christian tonight who has been one for years, he classes himself as one and has faith in Jesus, but he didn't know a lot of scripture at all!  Not many people really know what theyre doing!  Jesus doesnt hate them...He forgives them!  Love ALWAYS forgives, dammit!

Jesus never hated anyone, he certainly didn't hate people who were trying their best to find love.  If you met Jesus right now, he would cry with you, he would hold you and tell you that he loves you.  THAT you CAN believe because it's true and you KNOW its true!  Do you really think the same one who said "Forgive them father they dont know what theyre doing", is going to let anyone come to any harm if he can help it?  (And he spoke the words of God, so basically theyre in agreement so God CAN help it).

We don't have all the answers, all we know is that LOVE is the strongest force in the universe.


I for one am not letting you go until your better, you can bally well bank on that, I'll always be here for you, because I love you.

Anytime day or night you want to talk you just let me know, and if im online ill gladly chat, here, on a phone, on msn, anywhere you like, but i WILL NOT for one second let you be alone, and you arent to let people be alone either.  Deal?

Were all in this together, all on Earth to help each other.  In the end, sometimes that is the only thing that makes sense.  But when you KNOW THAT, the rest starts to make sense as well.

Take care and be strong.

Offline claypot

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2009, 01:54:55 AM »
Ya know J, I like what you wrote.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.