Author Topic: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET  (Read 6045 times)

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Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2009, 02:28:56 AM »
Ya know J, I like what you wrote.

cp

wow. Me too!
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sven

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2009, 11:48:28 AM »
Quote
if he is an ET God then I'm doomed

if ET were true, we were all doomed, imagine spending eternity with Hitler in a kind of golden cage, while you are well, you know that an everlasting Ausschwitz is just next to the door.

If God would torture anybody to infinity, I suppose heaven would be hell alike.

Jesus' character as presented in the gospels, speaks at most for universalism - more than any verse, I can't imagine Jesus torturing anybody to infinity.

about the book of Enoch, I examined the Greek text and it does not necessarily teach ET, some ancient Jewish teachers (Maimonides) interpreted it as teaching annihilation.

edit: big mistake, I wrote UR instead ET
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 09:16:03 PM by sven »

jesushandsarekindhands

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2009, 09:03:31 PM »
Ya know J, I like what you wrote.

cp

Its easier said than done!  Thats the real problem!  But oh, how God is humbling me in my life right now!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2009, 10:11:56 PM »
Jesus' character as presented in the gospels, speaks at most for universalism - more than any verse, I can't imagine Jesus torturing anybody to infinity.

If Jesus had a ET character He would not just have performed healing miracles but also destructive miracles on His opponents.
He would not have said "forgive them Father they don't know what they are doing"
He would have said "Father don't touch them they are mine!"
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 11:59:38 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2009, 12:20:07 AM »
 :cloud9: ROFLOL.....no kidding, WW........ :thumbsup: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2009, 01:01:18 AM »
Jesus' character as presented in the gospels, speaks at most for universalism - more than any verse, I can't imagine Jesus torturing anybody to infinity.

If Jesus had a ET character He would not just have performed healing miracles but also destructive miracles on His opponents.
He would not have said "forgive them Father they don't know what they are doing"
He would have said "Father don't touch them they are mine!"

ha! so true!
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline lomarah

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2012, 08:56:53 AM »
So, it's not really that I need to believe... it's more that I need to want what we are promised.  It's kind of funny - when preachers talking about eternal torment say that no one deserves heaven, but that it is a free gift that we ought to embrace warmly, most people stumble over the first part, assuring themselves that they do deserve heaven.  I, however, stumble over the second part.

 :cloud9: You know, when you're in the midst of it, it's very easy to feel like you're the only one. But I honestly don't know of anyone that has not felt this way, and it comes from a spirit of unworthiness the enemy of our souls fostered upon us, and it is a lie.

No, we are not worthy because of anything we have done or could do, but we ARE WORTHY because in Him we are kings. He is King of kings and Lord of lords. We are sons of the King. Our life is hid in Christ. For one thing that means our true identity is hid in Christ, and we must take everything He says we are to heart in faith.

We are more than conquerors because we are sons of the Most High. Lift your head up, because you ARE worthy in Him, and He is appearing in your heavens more and more with each passing day. You were made for such a time as this, for the King to have a vessel to be seen in. Blessings to you......

WOW! This is worth a  :bottlebump: for sure!!

Jesus' character as presented in the gospels, speaks at most for universalism - more than any verse, I can't imagine Jesus torturing anybody to infinity.

If Jesus had a ET character He would not just have performed healing miracles but also destructive miracles on His opponents.
He would not have said "forgive them Father they don't know what they are doing"
He would have said "Father don't touch them they are mine!"

Hahahaha touché!

From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

missplaced

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2012, 08:39:06 AM »
I grew up around ETers and "lost faith", though I had never really known God anyways. He allowed me to go and watched over me as I turned from him, shedding every notion I had. Finally I sought him on my own, without church, or even scripture, or the influences of men.. I yearned for the truth and I didn't try to see it how I wanted to or how I thought I should. I emptied myself and asked him to fill me. And for the first time I very clearly encountered him.. & that's how I came to US. Maybe you're searching too hard in the wrong places! I think it's good to take a step back & just seek him.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2012, 09:19:51 PM »
Quite often, God does things differently than the way WE feel he should have done them.
If you have a leg filled with cancer, better to get the leg cut off because the cancer will spread to the rest of the body.
Sin is like a cancer. In the old times, if the cancer(sin) were not completely removed, it would have eventually consumed all of God's people.
If I had a 55 gallon drum of sludge and added a pint of 100% pure water to it, I would still have sludge.
If I had a 55 gallon drum of 100% pure water and added a pint of sludge to it, I would have another 55 gallon drum of sludge.

I rest assured that God will always be fair and do what is right. The Bible says that God hardened Pharoah's heart - was Pharoah to blame. What about when Paroah's first born son was killed? I am convinced God works everyone in his plan. Many a time God has used Satan to show us things we need to know - like with Job and the temptations of Jesus in the desert.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

LordsDaughter

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2012, 02:18:24 AM »



Being a different member of different forums, I have seen numerous depictions of God which have left me confused

I do know this much though that churches don't preach an accurate message, which results in many false conversions such as myself, when thought I was a christian, I hoped that God loved me, however I've never been 100% sure of my salvation, I don't think I've ever truly known God, I've always been an agnostic theist (I believe in God but I don't KNOW God), it's not because I haven't wanted to, it's perhaps been because I've never been chosen

What confuses me is that many people see God as all loving, I don't know if this is perhaps where a great deal of my problem lies, I've never felt love and acceptance from my own parents, I've always been an outcast, don't worry I'm not having a pity party, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not dear to my parents and being an outcast, in fact I can welcome it with open arms if only I could have the assurance in my heart that God has predestined all to be saved

When people speak of UR it seems right and it makes sense, however is it real or could it be a gospel built on false hope, there are so many passages that speak of the wrath of God that one cannot overlook, not to mention apocryphal books like the Book of Enoch, and 2Esdras that clearly spell out ET, in such a way that it was preplanned by God (surely this is largely responsible for the concept of ET to have taken a foothold in the first place)

Code:

Pro 16:25  There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death.


However I find the ETers very unloving, and they seem totally unbothered by the ET concept and come with phrases like "Gods ways are not our ways", or God is not only love, he is also holy and cannot allow sin in his presence which begs the question

WHY DID HE BRING US INTO THIS MESS AS SINNERS, WITHOUT AS MUCH AS CONSULTING US FIRST, THEN CONDEMN US FOR SOMETHING HE CREATED US AS IN THE FIRST PLACE

What scares me is that I'm figuratively stumbling in the dark as I haven't had the revelation many others have had, the Eters say they have this intimate relationship with God, so do the URers and the Annihilationists, but they can't all be right

The crux of the matter is that if ET or annihilation are true, then God never intended to save all mankind, however if so, annihilation at least shows much more mercy and compassion for the victim than ET and I could accept an annihilation God, although I would prefer an UR God

The thing is all 3 positions have scripture to back them up

The thing is I have to try find the true character of God, if he is an ET God then I'm doomed, however I won't go on ex-c forums and make a mockery as this is not my style, I will try put this behind me and try to live the rest of my life as best I know how, and try to enjoy it

I just hope that UR is true and that God will reveal it to me, so that I can know without a shadow of a doubt, one thing I do notice is that URers are far more loving and less vindictive than ETers (I could never be an ETer, I would have to become agnostic or deist)

I want those that wronged me to be in heaven one day, I don't want them to go to an eternal hell

I hope you can understand my dilemma
I think your confusion is shared by many people. However, I think what may help is to consider that UR, ET, religion in general, all religion, is first based on the faith, the hope, that it's all true.

No one knows. If it were a fact without question it would be the fact of...Rather than the faith of.

I see the quandary regarding feeling God speak to you personally, inspire you to realize the existence of that creative power, is exacerbated if we expect it to come by the book. In other words, if I hold to the absolute fundamental of the whole of the Christian Bible and wait for the God described within that tome to reveal himself, while realizing there is no gender pronoun applicable to a spirit, (he, she) , I'm boxing myself in expecting one idea to show itself to me personally. Because I've read it appeared in that way, through the scriptures, generations ago.

Instead, what I find helps me to have a relationship with the all powerful spirit that is God is to let go of my expectations and my doubts. To be open and yet aware of the message I may receive.

See if this sounds familiar to you. Coincidence.
Have you noticed since you began your spiritual quest that things happen that seem to be inter-related in some way. As if there's this common thread that joins everything that occurs or some things that occur, together?
Something happens right now and there's this hint within it that reminds you of something like it that happened earlier.
For instance, and this sounds trivial however it helped me to see how that slogan that is so often thrown about when people speak of spiritual relationship, actually means something; "There is only one of us" & "Everything is connected".
Sounds like bumper stickers text doesn't it? And yet, just the other day in the morning I saw this guy on TV who was talking about in the coming election his vote was going for the Democrats, so he could have a better future.
When asked to expound on that he related how he had just graduated college and was getting his wardrobe together for his first big job garnered due to the school transcripts he had earned just prior. He told how he found brand new dress shoes at the local Goodwill but they were a half size too small. He bought them anyway, figuring with a shoe stretcher over the weekend he could work them into his size in time for his first day of work. Meanwhile, his purchase was due to his saving his money to repay the student loan he was paying on for the education that allowed him to get that first big paying job.

I remember thinking that was pretty nifty. Shoes that had never been worn, still had the tags on them and he was blessed to afford them at Goodwill and patient enough to stretch them out to his liking.
That night I went to the local department store looking for a new pair of house slippers. There was one ballet style left that sold as two pair for the price of one. I wear a size 7/8, while the cardboard cutout tag they were attached to denoted they were a 9/10. I figured since they were ballet style they'd probably run small. And for the price it couldn't be beat even though they were a size or two larger than I needed.
I got them home removed them from the cardboard display hanger, looked at the tag inside the inner sole and they were...a size 7/8.

In that instant I remembered that man on TV and his shoes. A story that may seem trivial and yet for me at least helped reiterate the message we are all related. We are all interconnected. That we all have a relationship with the source responsible for our being here. We can no more remove ourselves from that relationship and the innate conversation that is always available than we can remove ourselves from the DNA of our parents who made us.

My point being, be open. Don't live with expectations your dialog with God will follow what others have related of their own in scripture. Scripture, we're told, was derived from communication with the Holy Spirit. What that is, that power, is available at all times to everyone. Just let it flow. Be aware, watch for the signs that show you links , interrelatipnships to time and events and happenings that seemingly overlap or bear strikingly similar characteristics. See what that common thread is and perhaps you'll glean the message you're intended to read there.

One of the best salves I've found that helped lift the confusion fundamentalist dogma implied in my family life, as we were all raised southern Baptist, is the CD by Neale Donald Walsch. The author of the "Conversations with God" series. It's called, "The Journey". It's one of the most wonderful conversations I've heard because for me it resonates with what I've learned over the years as I've found my walk with God to be so much more than that what dogma would have mapped out for me had I been a traditionalist and followed in my families footsteps in matters of faith.
You are a fact. You are here for a reason. You are sacred. This earth is your church, the house of the Holy, as is your body. And the creator of it all is your universal eternal parent that is always in communication with you, even when you look in the mirror into your own eyes and see it's power there. Open, trust, and listen. You've never been alone or apart from the truth of the matter.

God Bless You.

Offline jugghead

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2012, 03:46:13 AM »
I grew up around ETers and "lost faith", though I had never really known God anyways. He allowed me to go and watched over me as I turned from him, shedding every notion I had. Finally I sought him on my own, without church, or even scripture, or the influences of men.. I yearned for the truth and I didn't try to see it how I wanted to or how I thought I should. I emptied myself and asked him to fill me. And for the first time I very clearly encountered him.. & that's how I came to US. Maybe you're searching too hard in the wrong places! I think it's good to take a step back & just seek him.

What I find amazing about how God works in each one of us as individuals is the diversity of how we have all come to our understanding of UR.
When I first experienced what I did, I went straight to church, from there God taught me their understanding, He then took me out of the church, through the changing of my career, and it was then that God slowly emptied me of the first (old) understanding and replaced it with the new.

Being emptied is what it is all about, emptied of what any man can and would say about God (including us sometimes). I myself understand both points of view completely and it is because of that God easily points out what is truth and what is not, knowing that I will see it and recognize it because of what He has done in me.

He did not pour new wine into an old wineskin, new wine has to go into a new wineskin. Be emptied and God will transform you into the new wineskin that will not burst when the new wine (new understanding) is poured in.

Love hearing how He works in all of us, and I also mean those of the church, for God even uses them for the purpose of keeping our faith strong. Besides, it just gives us more people we can forgive.
Wisdom is not measured by time, it is measured by understanding

Offline dajomaco

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2012, 05:15:30 AM »



Being a different member of different forums, I have seen numerous depictions of God which have left me confused

I do know this much though that churches don't preach an accurate message, which results in many false conversions such as myself, when thought I was a christian, I hoped that God loved me, however I've never been 100% sure of my salvation, I don't think I've ever truly known God, I've always been an agnostic theist (I believe in God but I don't KNOW God), it's not because I haven't wanted to, it's perhaps been because I've never been chosen

What confuses me is that many people see God as all loving, I don't know if this is perhaps where a great deal of my problem lies, I've never felt love and acceptance from my own parents, I've always been an outcast, don't worry I'm not having a pity party, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not dear to my parents and being an outcast, in fact I can welcome it with open arms if only I could have the assurance in my heart that God has predestined all to be saved

When people speak of UR it seems right and it makes sense, however is it real or could it be a gospel built on false hope, there are so many passages that speak of the wrath of God that one cannot overlook, not to mention apocryphal books like the Book of Enoch, and 2Esdras that clearly spell out ET, in such a way that it was preplanned by God (surely this is largely responsible for the concept of ET to have taken a foothold in the first place)

Code:

Pro 16:25  There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death.


However I find the ETers very unloving, and they seem totally unbothered by the ET concept and come with phrases like "Gods ways are not our ways", or God is not only love, he is also holy and cannot allow sin in his presence which begs the question

WHY DID HE BRING US INTO THIS MESS AS SINNERS, WITHOUT AS MUCH AS CONSULTING US FIRST, THEN CONDEMN US FOR SOMETHING HE CREATED US AS IN THE FIRST PLACE

What scares me is that I'm figuratively stumbling in the dark as I haven't had the revelation many others have had, the Eters say they have this intimate relationship with God, so do the URers and the Annihilationists, but they can't all be right

The crux of the matter is that if ET or annihilation are true, then God never intended to save all mankind, however if so, annihilation at least shows much more mercy and compassion for the victim than ET and I could accept an annihilation God, although I would prefer an UR God

The thing is all 3 positions have scripture to back them up

The thing is I have to try find the true character of God, if he is an ET God then I'm doomed, however I won't go on ex-c forums and make a mockery as this is not my style, I will try put this behind me and try to live the rest of my life as best I know how, and try to enjoy it

I just hope that UR is true and that God will reveal it to me, so that I can know without a shadow of a doubt, one thing I do notice is that URers are far more loving and less vindictive than ETers (I could never be an ETer, I would have to become agnostic or deist)

I want those that wronged me to be in heaven one day, I don't want them to go to an eternal hell

I hope you can understand my dilemma
I think your confusion is shared by many people. However, I think what may help is to consider that UR, ET, religion in general, all religion, is first based on the faith, the hope, that it's all true.

No one knows. If it were a fact without question it would be the fact of...Rather than the faith of.

I see the quandary regarding feeling God speak to you personally, inspire you to realize the existence of that creative power, is exacerbated if we expect it to come by the book. In other words, if I hold to the absolute fundamental of the whole of the Christian Bible and wait for the God described within that tome to reveal himself, while realizing there is no gender pronoun applicable to a spirit, (he, she) , I'm boxing myself in expecting one idea to show itself to me personally. Because I've read it appeared in that way, through the scriptures, generations ago.

Instead, what I find helps me to have a relationship with the all powerful spirit that is God is to let go of my expectations and my doubts. To be open and yet aware of the message I may receive.

See if this sounds familiar to you. Coincidence.
Have you noticed since you began your spiritual quest that things happen that seem to be inter-related in some way. As if there's this common thread that joins everything that occurs or some things that occur, together?
Something happens right now and there's this hint within it that reminds you of something like it that happened earlier.
For instance, and this sounds trivial however it helped me to see how that slogan that is so often thrown about when people speak of spiritual relationship, actually means something; "There is only one of us" & "Everything is connected".
Sounds like bumper stickers text doesn't it? And yet, just the other day in the morning I saw this guy on TV who was talking about in the coming election his vote was going for the Democrats, so he could have a better future.
When asked to expound on that he related how he had just graduated college and was getting his wardrobe together for his first big job garnered due to the school transcripts he had earned just prior. He told how he found brand new dress shoes at the local Goodwill but they were a half size too small. He bought them anyway, figuring with a shoe stretcher over the weekend he could work them into his size in time for his first day of work. Meanwhile, his purchase was due to his saving his money to repay the student loan he was paying on for the education that allowed him to get that first big paying job.

I remember thinking that was pretty nifty. Shoes that had never been worn, still had the tags on them and he was blessed to afford them at Goodwill and patient enough to stretch them out to his liking.
That night I went to the local department store looking for a new pair of house slippers. There was one ballet style left that sold as two pair for the price of one. I wear a size 7/8, while the cardboard cutout tag they were attached to denoted they were a 9/10. I figured since they were ballet style they'd probably run small. And for the price it couldn't be beat even though they were a size or two larger than I needed.
I got them home removed them from the cardboard display hanger, looked at the tag inside the inner sole and they were...a size 7/8.

In that instant I remembered that man on TV and his shoes. A story that may seem trivial and yet for me at least helped reiterate the message we are all related. We are all interconnected. That we all have a relationship with the source responsible for our being here. We can no more remove ourselves from that relationship and the innate conversation that is always available than we can remove ourselves from the DNA of our parents who made us.

My point being, be open. Don't live with expectations your dialog with God will follow what others have related of their own in scripture. Scripture, we're told, was derived from communication with the Holy Spirit. What that is, that power, is available at all times to everyone. Just let it flow. Be aware, watch for the signs that show you links , interrelatipnships to time and events and happenings that seemingly overlap or bear strikingly similar characteristics. See what that common thread is and perhaps you'll glean the message you're intended to read there.

One of the best salves I've found that helped lift the confusion fundamentalist dogma implied in my family life, as we were all raised southern Baptist, is the CD by Neale Donald Walsch. The author of the "Conversations with God" series. It's called, "The Journey". It's one of the most wonderful conversations I've heard because for me it resonates with what I've learned over the years as I've found my walk with God to be so much more than that what dogma would have mapped out for me had I been a traditionalist and followed in my families footsteps in matters of faith.
You are a fact. You are here for a reason. You are sacred. This earth is your church, the house of the Holy, as is your body. And the creator of it all is your universal eternal parent that is always in communication with you, even when you look in the mirror into your own eyes and see it's power there. Open, trust, and listen. You've never been alone or apart from the truth of the matter.

God Bless You.
So gentle ,yet refreshing to my soul.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2012, 07:51:12 AM »
"All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET" a question to wonder of the questioner....READ it 1Jn 4:8  he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2012, 10:49:45 AM »
I still don't understand what the ETs have such deep hate toward URs....
Sure many of denomination 1 don't like the teachings of denomonimation 2...99999; but the other views are usually called wrong, incomplete or some other mild term.
But UR usally equals satanism.

Arminianism: Calvinism is wrong because God wants everyone to be saved.
Calvinism: Arminianism is wrong because God elected people to be saved.

Arminianism: UR is satanic because God wants everyone to be saved and succeeds :-)
Calvinism: UR is satanic because God elected* to many people.

*= Elect only determines when you are saved. Not if you are saved. But obviously that's another disagreement between UR en Calvinism.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2012, 05:57:32 PM »
"And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also HIS OFFSPRING" (Acts 17:26-28)

one blood all nations of men.......For we are also HIS OFFSPRING"
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2012, 08:13:21 PM »
Hey Shadow, I've been there. What I came to after a while was to observe myself and what I am afraid of and I understood that I have a tendency to fear unlikely or improbable things. This also has to do with having a quirky personality, I mean when I was younger I sometimes read books or saw movies specifically because they made me afraid, as if I was wanting to do a thrill ride, and that's one of the reasons which made me into a person that has anxiety easily. The point is, I needed to learn to relax and that I couldn't be the hero who would convert the world to a better religion, haha. What God called me to do was to be a confessing christian, to be ethically responsible and to partake in church life. The UR things describe salvation theology, and I believe they are accurate, but I don't think they necessarily take away all anxiety and solve all problems. That's also why some ET christians live comfortably even though one would think their extremistic theology should make them miserable. But not so, people believe all kinds of extreme things, what matters is that they make wise choices in life, have a family, have things to attach their heart to like a good hobby or a fulfilling job, have friends and no problems with people, etc. I mean, we believe in UR, yes, I think in truth everyone believes in UR in their hearts because it's just the most humane way of practicing a sound religion. But UR is not a magic key that makes absolutely everything wonderful, for that I think you need to search Jesus himself and make sure that you live in love, that you have people to love and people who love you so loneliness won't eat you up. As for me, I have found that every moment of love that I can find in life is precious and takes my mind away from the worries of life, and from the religious worries too. That's also how traditionally christianity has ever flourished... I mean that while ET isn't true, the church still existed despite the false theology and people lived and had their comforts and joys and many were happy. That is because Christ somehow influences this world and people look and learn and know what they must do to have a life and often people understand that theology is just a science and that people make up stuff and you need to care for yourself and your friends and family, etc. That's why I hang out with other christians regardless of where they stand on the ET/UR line and just try to be kind and live with people in a loving way and that's given me my peace really. Yes, ET is wrong but this sense of assurance in being at the right place in life comes from being able to live in love and kindness, and that's the law of love that the bible speaks about and it's what Jesus is saving us INTO. And for that to happen ET doesn't matter as much as some UR christians think because it's just a theology and I guess God Himself doesn't take it so serious, because what matters is that we know Jesus and live with Him in community, and that's it. The real struggle isn't for me to find out the best theology there is, but to accept everyone around me and to be kind to everyone and not to hold grudges and all that. And that's possible with pretty much everyone in my life, and that's also where the Sermon of the Mount comes in which shows you a way to overcome all kinds of human struggles with the counsel of God and of Christ who followed the same principles.

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: All loving God or loving to some and hateful towards most UR vs ET
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2012, 08:49:42 PM »
Shadow, I see from reading this thread that you have been here longer than me, though you are listed as a guest.  Therefore, I will regard you as senior.  :gimmefive:

Please know, first of all, that our doubts and confusion are not an answer, not primary, and that being lost is simply not having found our destination yet.  I've been there myself.  :doh:

Second, what you seek can not be accessed externally like this:   :punish:  That doesn't look like fun, anyway.

You need a super-natural solution from a super-natural source.  It works from the inside out, not from the outside in.  Pray.  Meditate.  Read your Bible.  Pay attention to your dreams - in my life, I have met God several times in dreams, and sometimes have dreams which seem highly significant if interpreted in Christian terms.  God can (and does!) bring people and circumstances into our lives which are good for us.  Do you not think your finding Tentmaker to be such a thing?  Be patient, for God converts some people overnight, but others take a lifetime.  It's God's doing, and we know He does it for our good and His glory. :dsunny: 

Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.