Author Topic: Aionios: Let's clear the water  (Read 48713 times)

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Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #425 on: February 07, 2009, 10:35:05 PM »
I find that some are amusing, even funny, and produce laughter; as it pertains to the nature.
And in the Spirit of being comical – very humorous. :yes:

I am starting to enjoy the diversity of the people on this forum.

"Language is an expression of the mind, and words express thoughts!"

"Some consider one day more sacred than another; others consider every day alike. Everyone should be fully convinced in their own mind. Those who regard one day as special do so to the Lord. Those who eat meat do so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and those who abstain do so to the Lord and give thanks to God. For we do not live to ourselves alone and we do not die to ourselves alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord." (Romans 14:5-8)

peacemaker
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 10:56:04 PM by peacemaker »

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #426 on: February 07, 2009, 10:55:50 PM »
Mods,

Forgive me if I missed something, but it seems like my comment about the fact that Tony misrepresented both the Perseus Project's translation of Timaeus 37d and Dr. Keizer's work has been deleted.  Is this the case?  If so, why?

martincisneros

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #427 on: February 07, 2009, 11:12:07 PM »
Mods,

Forgive me if I missed something, but it seems like my comment about the fact that Tony misrepresented both the Perseus Project's translation of Timaeus 37d and Dr. Keizer's work has been deleted.  Is this the case?  If so, why?

I've been busy keeping an eye on other threads and most especially hitting the ban button on a bunch of automated registrations with porn and pharmaceutical links on the profiles, so I haven't been watching this thread, so I'm not sure who dumped the post, but when I read it, it seemed rude as hell.

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #428 on: February 07, 2009, 11:16:57 PM »
Quote from: martin
....so I'm not sure who dumped the post, but when I read it, it seemed rude as hell.

Which post of mine are you referring to?  And do you mean that the post seemed rude as sheol, or rude as the lake of fire?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #429 on: February 08, 2009, 02:08:22 AM »
NEW NAME FOR THE THREAD...RE: POSTING;  LET'S CLEAR THE WATER  :icon_joker:

Hi PM...being diverse is fine, a strength, and to be applauded.   (I don't see you personally as being guilty) but on the other hand, being rude, taking personal shots, and continuous, contentious debating, not so much....we went through a terrible season on the DB of "free-for-all" fighting, kicking, and gouging, and my understanding is that the intentions of Gary, the admin, and mods is that we just won't allow things to go there again.  So if it seems we're clamping down...we are...we don't even want to let things approach where they were.  Again, if everyone will reference the post from Martin's sticky, I don't think there will be such wonderment as to what's going on.

So many people here, even specifically in this particular thread, have so much to offer...input, insight from different perspectives, and have an opportunity to be used of God to share and help each other...even correcting each other TO A POINT.  That point stops when I start trying to control you, push you into my personal POV on doctrine, and especially when I take that next step and start taking personal shots, even veiled personal insults (including insinuations).  Besides just being bad form and a poor witness (as well as hurting our brothers and sisters) some of the stuff that's been removed is actually baiting and/or trolling...not good, and not allowed.

My friends...I like you guys...you're cool, and again, have so much to offer.  So offer it, reason a bit, then if you've spoken what you understand to be the truth, MOVE ON!  LET GOD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RESULTS.  Remember?  His Word will not return unto Him void.  Share the truth in love, in honor preferring one another.  I can be TOTALLY right, but end up being so wrong and my message rejected, if my attitude and the way I deliver it stinks.

Again, please refer to Martin's sticky that I posted, and that will answer many questions and explain where things stand.

Let's move on from here, but contention and sowing discord amongst the brethren (and sistren  :laughing7:) just isn't allowed and will be heavily moderated. 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 02:10:42 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #430 on: February 08, 2009, 02:56:13 AM »
I don't see you personally as being guilty

Often times, my dry sense of humor or a quote, can rub someone the wrong way. In any event, I'd be the first to apologize, if it was significant.

There was a time when I lived for the debate (...not really a war-maker), crossing every "t" and dotting the eyes of man. Now, I refrain from expounding, so there is no pounding. But will admit, it's tempting. Although, only in defense of another.

"In the winds of change; we find our true direction."

peacemaker

YoungYuni

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #431 on: February 08, 2009, 03:03:26 AM »
Time is not eternity. How can eternity be a moving image of time? LOL. Since eternity is timelessness.

"The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.

But it was Plato who took this word aionios -- he may even have coined it -- and gave it its special mysterious meaning. To put it briefly, for Plato aionios is the word of eternity in contrast with time. Plato uses it, as it has been said, 'to denote that which has neither beginning nor end, and that is subject to neither change nor decay, that which is above time, but of which time is a moving image'."
-William Barkley, I am a Convinced Universalist.

Therefore, aionios, according to Plato, who coined the word is that which is above time, in which time appears as a moving image beside it.

This is not a veiled comment, or obscure critisism but a valid correction.

Plato gave no room for misinterpretation of how he defined AIONIOS, and it is the Hot Air Balloon above a Macy's Parade.

When trying to prove a point or state a fact, make sure you have your facts straight and please respect those who actually dedicated their life to facts and knowledge of the truth for the very purpose to destroy the arguments that hold itself against the knowledge of the truth.

There is no harm in admitting you were mistaken in your understanding, and that is what is missing in this discussion.

2 Corinthians 10:5
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Later the word AIONIOS began to obtain cognitive definitions which put AIONIOS in relation to something that is not immortal and permenant to mean just a very long time in relation to what it describes.

Therefore it remains, AIONIOS has two definitions which are correct.

One that states a duration with no beginning or with no end or both, and the other that states a duration with a end.

"An indeterminate duration of which the maximum is fixed by the intrinsic nature of the persons or things. Or the last ever so long - so long as they last!" - Pétavel-Olliff, Emmanuel, The Problem of Immortality (1836-1910)

Therefore I agree with both Pétavel-Olliff, Emmanuel, William Barkley and Plato (who coined the word).

In relation to God is a state of something that exceeds and unchanged by time.

In relation to anything else it is a state of something that is constrained by time.

Any other definition sacrifices fact and moves into the realm of fiction.

 :2c:  :cloud9:

« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 03:17:57 AM by YoungYuni »

Offline Taffy

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #432 on: February 08, 2009, 03:25:03 AM »
Quote
There is no harm in admitting you were mistaken in your understanding, and that is what is missing in this discussion.

AND... when will folk come to understand we EACH are where we are in our own  UNDERSTANDING..



Share  by all means Guys...Brow beat and youll be out of here.....irrespective how subtle ya PUT it



No more warnings....and no more even discussing WHY..

This is for ALL

This thread will not be closed by the few...the few will take there discussions else where....

SHARE and allow others to breathe

 :icon_flower:

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #433 on: February 08, 2009, 07:07:29 AM »
what is it that you're looking for here [Apocatastacis]?  Tony has left the thread  . . . what's left to prove? 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 08:24:14 AM by jabcat »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #434 on: February 08, 2009, 07:40:35 AM »
[Addressed to YY's post, which has since been deleted]

Quote;  "9 Let love be without hypocrisy abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
16 Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation."

This is not what I hear Taffy saying;  not that we should estimate ourselves wise, but that we all are at different levels in our walk, understanding, receipt of revelation from God...Taffy is always one to seek within the Word.  I don't think this scripture is directly addressing what Taffy stated or believes.


Nor this...Quote:  "lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;"      Again, this isn't what I hear Taffy saying. 



For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.  Mt. 7:2.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 09:18:56 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #435 on: February 08, 2009, 08:26:06 AM »
It appears that the perpetual corrector understands the importance of truth, but often misses the requirements of love, and kindness.

peacemaker

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #436 on: February 08, 2009, 08:29:30 AM »
 :dontknow:   You probably wouldn't believe the time that's been spent and the effort made to explain, offer assistance, clarify, then do it all over again...  :pitiful:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #437 on: February 08, 2009, 07:10:22 PM »
Mods,

Why was my post deleted?

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #438 on: February 08, 2009, 07:12:51 PM »
Quote from: peacemaker
It appears that the perpetual corrector understands the importance of truth, but often misses the requirements of love, and kindness.

Is it unkind and unloving to speak the truth?

Offline Taffy

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #439 on: February 08, 2009, 07:34:06 PM »
Apoc

It seems many posts were deleted while we in the UK were sleeping last night, I can only suggest those being deemed as inappropriate

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #440 on: February 08, 2009, 07:54:34 PM »
Taffy,

This is what I wrote:

Doc,

Did you read the link?  Do you see that Tony had misrepresented Dr. Keizer's work?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #441 on: February 08, 2009, 11:58:31 PM »
Taffy,

This is what I wrote:

Doc,

Did you read the link?  Do you see that Tony had misrepresented Dr. Keizer's work?

Not being a mod myself . . .but a contributer like the rest . . .I responded directly to this because I don't understand why you're not taking the hints being offered here.  Say that your link proves Tony is way out in left field . . .now what?  Where is the benefit anymore?  What is left to be edified?  For me, I think the mods are simply trying their best to reign in some comments to keep the thread from being locked . . .yet you want to repost what they delete.  

I can't say you're being disrespectful on purpose becasue I really have no "revelation" on that . .but for me personally, if Taf deletes my post, I feel I would be much in the wrong if I were to repost what he'd already deleted.  That's where the pms come in handy.

Just my thoughts on it.  

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #442 on: February 09, 2009, 12:04:27 AM »
Quote from: peacemaker
It appears that the perpetual corrector understands the importance of truth, but often misses the requirements of love, and kindness.

 

Not to take anything away from Nathan's post, there has been a lot of moderating occurring, including posting expectations as Nathan mentions.  However, I may have misunderstood it, but I think this particular quote was specifically directed at someone who's no longer with us...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 12:07:21 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #443 on: February 09, 2009, 02:53:32 AM »
Nathan,

I thought that the mods were simply asking us to desist personal attacks and the like.  I have since desisted, have I not?  Pointing out the truth is good, no matter what.  If this board discourages this, then I will happily leave.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #444 on: February 09, 2009, 03:17:01 AM »
Hi Apoc

Pease Post on what you deem to be Truth..according to scripture...It will   NOT be discouraged.
 but for many ,Truth comes in various forms...starting with the those who sat im moses seat..then of course thro the ages we have many others forms..too many to mention , but im sure ya know what I mean..Calvanism really comes to mind..Take a Visist to CARM you see TRUTH in abundance.

Post Apoc, share your Knowedge, BUT let others come to Understand ........as NOT EVERYONE IS APOC.....

Seems you were aided by others to come to Understand what you too see Now..even if at the time. you may have been less knowegable or could we  DARE say ...ignorant


 :icon_flower:













Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #445 on: February 09, 2009, 03:19:13 AM »
Thanks, Taffy. 

I'm still wondering why my post was deleted though.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #446 on: February 09, 2009, 03:26:17 AM »
Thanks, Taffy. 

I'm still wondering why my post was deleted though.
Hi Apoc :icon_flower:

It wasnt I who deleted ya post bud..me was sleeping...SO, maybe if you seek an explaination, it will be forthcoming from the person who deleted it..I cant help you no more than that. :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #447 on: February 09, 2009, 04:02:51 AM »
Hi Apoc.  I deleted it.  If it had been an isolated post, no great big deal.  You may not agree with the decision (I'm not always right, I know that), but I had been dealing with a related situation since several hours prior, and I saw the post IN CONTEXT as being a continuation of/related to, the situation...I was basically making an effort to get the thread pretty much completely away from the direction of those 8 or 10 posts.  So again, if you'd posted that same thing 3 days ago, and it was isolated and not in context of what had been going on, it would have been noticed, but not censored.  However, I had made a couple of posts that not only expressed about personal attacks, but also continuous debating.  So it appeared to me to be just a lesser version of what had been going on...admittedly borderline, but in context, part of needing to "get things back on track".  You were not directly admonished, or banned, which was not the case for everyone involved with the situation.  Bottom line, we're serious about not letting things get back to the previous food fights, and it's possible to be affected by that, even if you've just got some food on you, rather than covered from head to toe.

I really can't apologize, because under the same circumstances, I probably would do the same again.
I hope you understand, or at least accept this explanation.  If not, hopefully we can still move forward from here with a handshake, remembering we're blood brothers and hopefully after the same thing...growing in and uplifting the name of Jesus. 

God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 07:12:31 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #448 on: February 23, 2009, 12:45:34 AM »
I miss this thread.  :happygrin:

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #449 on: February 23, 2009, 12:47:18 AM »
So Tony N. tells us that a noun can't modify an adjective.  Well, of course. But, can an adjective qualify a noun?

http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1657#p1657
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 05:03:02 AM by Apocatastasis »