Author Topic: Aionios: Let's clear the water  (Read 54263 times)

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Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #325 on: January 30, 2009, 05:02:41 AM »
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3100

For those of you who might think that I am closed-minded to Tony's position, or that I don't understand it, see the link above.

Fortigurn?

And, where was Evangelion?
Sempiternal-ly, eating his bag of popcorn!

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Zeek

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #326 on: January 30, 2009, 05:03:45 AM »
I don't know if anyone else here feels the same, but I personally would love to see this thread locked, or shut down; the "put downs" between the two here imo; are uncalled for. 

Z

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #327 on: January 30, 2009, 05:05:07 AM »
Gorgeous
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English gorgeouse, from Middle French gorgias elegant, perhaps from gorgias wimple, from gorge throat
Date: 15th century


Probably, from Latin gurges, whirlpool, abyss, or chaos before creation!

"Lost in the vast abysses of space and time."

peacemaker

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #328 on: January 30, 2009, 05:10:39 AM »
Quote from: Tony
Your #2 above likewise is complete nonsense.
You stated in #2 above this:
"2. It is not impossible for an adjective to go beyond the meaning of its noun form. For instance, "hideous" derives from "hisda", meaning "fear".  However, when someone calls something hideous, they don't have in mind "pertaining to fear" as the meaning."

Tony's reply: Dear reading audience, do you see the error in Gabe's logic in #2? The nounal form of hideous is not "fear." The noun of hideous is according to the Mirriam Webster dictionary: "hideousness." The noun form of hideous is also not hisda nor fear. Hideous cannot be greater than that which pertains to hideousness.


Dear reading audience, do you see the error in Tony's logic?  Hideousness is no more the root of hideous than aioniosness is the root of aionios.  

Tony, the more you talk, the more you expose yourself as either dishonest or unintelligent (or both). Keep it up!

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Tony's reply: Yea the same majority of Greek "scholars" who translated "aionion kolasin" as "eternal torment"!


Er, Tony, I was talking about the world of Classical Greek scholars.  Pay attention!

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LOL! What a bunch of idiotic losers. Gabe, you can't even understand the most basic grammar.

Keep it up, Tony.  This is great!

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Why do you think you would understand what I tell you about Timaeus, Gabe, not Timeaus. There is no Timeaus.

You must be getting desperate.

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News Flash for Gabe . . . we are not required to understand the philosophies which Paul tells us to beware.

This just keeps getting better and better.  Tony boy, you need to understand Plato's basic philosophy of time (and eternity) in order to understand his use of chronos , aion,aionios, aidion, etc.  Now, anyone who knows a lick about Plato's philosophy knows about his theory of the Forms. And anyone who knows a lick about the theory of the Forms knows that Plato held to a dualistic coneption of reality, namely that the world of time, space, and matter has its counterpart in the world of the eternal (unchanging and timeless) Forms.  Thus, all humans are human by virtue of the fact that they share a common human essence. This extends to the moral sphere as well:  An act is just insofar as it exemplifies the eternal virtue of justice.  

 
Quote
The aeons are not "is" but are "was" and "will be" for they are not eternal but are constantly moving.

Very good, Tony!  But, you see, you have a problem:

"...he made this image eternal (aiwnion/eonian) but moving according to number, while eternity (aiwnion/eonian) itself rests in unity..."

Oh, dang!  Doesn't that just screw you all up?  The image (time) moves according to number (transience) whilst the eternal (aionios) rests in unity (is not subject to the passing of time).  Are you the only person reading this that can't see this?

Quote
When Barclay said "aionios is . . . "the word of deity" and "applied to God" he is meaning Romans 16:26 as in "the eonian God." So in fact he is telling us that "God" is modifying "eonian." And when he said that it describes "the life of God" he is telling us that the life of God modifies aionios to mean eternal.

Actually, what he said was that aionios is a "word which can be properly applied to no one other than God."
Your reading skills leave something to be desired.  I don't entirely agree with Barclay's statement, though, for I would agree with you that aionios can apply to thing and persons that are not God. I quoted Barclay only to demonstrate that one can believe in UR and yet acknowledge that aionios carries the meaning "eternal".  All that considered, Barclay was not making the noun modify the adjective.  He was simply noting a well-attested to and well-accepted meaning of the word and noting how it carries a meaning that is applicable only to God (for God alone is eternal in the primary sense).




Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #329 on: January 30, 2009, 05:13:19 AM »
peacemaker,

Fortigurn is a fine student of the Bible.  Sure, he has his biased lenses that he looks through, but don't we all to some degree? 

I came into the debate as dogmatic as Tony is now.  However, I came into the debate with an open mind, something that Tony has not had since I've known him.  Fortigurn helped me along my way towards seeing the folly of Tony's position.

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #330 on: January 30, 2009, 05:14:29 AM »
Quote from: Geek
I don't know if anyone else here feels the same, but I personally would love to see this thread locked, or shut down; the "put downs" between the two here imo; are uncalled for.
 

No one's forcing you to read this.



Zeek

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #331 on: January 30, 2009, 05:23:28 AM »
Col 3:12-17  Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender feelings of mercy, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering, 13  forbearing one another and forgiving yourselves, if anyone has a complaint against any. As Christ forgave you, so also you do. 14  And above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfectness. 15  And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which you also are called in one body, and be thankful. 16  Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17  And everything, whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him. (MKJV)

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #332 on: January 30, 2009, 05:26:03 AM »
Quote from: peacemaker
Gorgeous
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English gorgeouse, from Middle French gorgias elegant, perhaps from gorgias wimple, from gorge throat
Date: 15th century

Probably, from Latin gurges, whirlpool, abyss, or chaos before creation!

"Lost in the vast abysses of space and time."

peacemaker


Some clarification is needed.  What is meant is that gorge may derive from gurges.  This would make sense.  Think "gurgitation"

Zeek

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #333 on: January 30, 2009, 05:27:44 AM »
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Zeek

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #334 on: January 30, 2009, 05:29:09 AM »
"Tony, the more you talk, the more you expose yourself as either dishonest or unintelligent (or both)."

Zeek

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #335 on: January 30, 2009, 05:30:26 AM »
"I find it hard to believe that you really are as strikingly dense as you make yourself out to be."

Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #336 on: January 30, 2009, 05:59:13 AM »
Zeek, don't forget to give Tony his due credit:

Quote from: Tony
I believe I may be dealing with someone who is not capable of logical reasoning. So I will post this for those of you who can use the brain God gave you. No slight to you Gabe.

Quote
Gabe, gorgeous does not pertain to that which is gorge. That is your illogical assertion. I wish I could come down to your level so you could understand the most basic grammar they begin to teach in 3rd grade. I will try to make this as simple as I can so you can understand it.

Quote
Gabe, I realize you are incapable of understanding this. I don't say that to be mean. It is just that I have dealt with you over the years and I realize you are incapable of thinking properly. So I will answer the above two points for those who God has given the ability to properly think
.

Quote
LOL! What a bunch of idiotic losers. Gabe, you can't even understand the most basic grammar.

Quote
Plato was not contrasting time with aion/aionion but was showing their likeness you nitwit. Learn to read the philosophy Paul told us to avoid.

Zeek, Tony and I can roll with each other's punches.  Do not let light jabbing distract you from the exchange of ideas that you are seeing in this thread.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #337 on: January 30, 2009, 06:04:41 AM »
Hi guys.  Whatever it's being called, I'm going to ask that we back this thing up and re-enter into a mutually respectful discussion (also keeping in mind there are many people that will view this as an example and witness).  Hopefully as brothers in the Christ no one feels a need to do so, but if anyone has a need to do more than is allowed on the forum, please use PM for that. This will be my only request.  Thanks, James.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 06:58:26 AM by jabcat »

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #338 on: January 30, 2009, 07:03:41 AM »
peacemaker,

Fortigurn is a fine student of the Bible. Sure, he has his biased lenses that he looks through, but don't we all to some degree? 


No doubt, and be not apprehensive, it was unexpectedness that's all.

Yes, to a certain degree, given the natural disposition or the temperature of the flame.

peacemaker




Apocatastasis

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #339 on: January 30, 2009, 07:37:21 AM »
You got it jabcat.  I will not address Tony personally any more in this thread. 

Offline jabcat

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #340 on: January 30, 2009, 07:42:04 AM »
Thanks brother...and feel free to address anyone personally, as long as it's able to be kept as we need it...Good show Apoc  :thumbsup:.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #341 on: January 30, 2009, 09:26:49 AM »
The ROOT Gram. ...that part of a word that conveys its essential meaning, as distinguished from the formative or inflectional parts by which this meaning is modified; an ultimate form or element form which words are derived or thought to be derived. (Webster)

While not all that is possible to be said, it is right to say that:  the root of a word is the history of the changes a word went through to become what it is now.

The word itself is the same word regardless of what grammatical form or function it assumes.  Whether adverb, adjective, noun, verbal, etc., it remains the same word.

Even if people only function without a written language and are unaware of grammatical rules, their speech yet follows these kind of rules or it would cease being language.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Tony N

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #342 on: January 30, 2009, 02:38:26 PM »
Dear readers,
To say that eonian pertains to the eon or eons is not the same as saying Gorgeous pertains to the throat.

To say that Gorgeous pertains to gorge is to say that eonian pertains to "to breathe" since most likely aeon originally meant "to breathe" just as originally *mabye* Gorgeous derived itself from "gorge".

When the New Testament was written aion was never used of that which is "eternal." That would be an oxymoron.

Age has a beginning and an end. To say that an age can be endless is a contradiction in terms. To say "endless age" is an oxymoron.

In the New Testament the eon is the longest segment of time but not eternal.
In the New Testament aionion/eonian is that which pertains to the eon or eons as the case may be.

In the New Testament psuchikos (soulish) is that which pertains to the soul psuchi.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish (psuchikos) man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

In the New Testament Heavenly (ouranios) as in "your heavenly Father" (Matt.5:48) is the Father which pertains to heaven (ouranos). The word "heavenly" when connected with "Father" is not all of a sudden changed to "transcending heaven."

Likewise Eonian (aionios) is that which pertains to the eons aionos. When eonian is connected with God (Rom.16:26) it does not all of a sudden mean "eon transcending." It means God pertaining to the eons.

No eon is eternal. Again that would be a contradiction in terms. Eternal eon is an oxymoron. God is not the author of confusion. The Bible says all the eons end. Therefore there is no eternal eon. It is impossible.

Furthermore, for those of you who wish to go deeper into this, this person did her Phd. dissertation on aion and aionios in Philo and the early Greek writers as well as the early church fathers and the New Testament and found:
 
"In the non-biblical usage, Dr. Keizer notes three distinct meanings of aion: (1) "life," (2) "time," and (3) "entirety," or a wholeness or completeness or a totality relating to a function of time. (Hence the title of her study.) She notes that the biblical aion is a creation of God (having no divinity, as pagan philosophy put forth). Her study found that neither Philo, nor later Church Fathers use aion to refer to the eternity of God. 2 Dr. Keizer pointed out some conclusions regarding the usage and meaning of aion in the New Testament: 3"

You can read about it here:
http://www.askelm.com/newsletter/l200501.htm

Col 2:8 Beware that no one shall be despoiling you through philosophy and empty seduction, in accord with human tradition, in accord with the elements of the world, and not in accord with Christ,

I am through answering Gabe directly. Beware, friends of the philosophy of the world.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 03:21:04 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Doc

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #343 on: January 31, 2009, 01:01:43 AM »
Dear readers,
To say that eonian pertains to the eon or eons is not the same as saying Gorgeous pertains to the throat.

To say that Gorgeous pertains to gorge is to say that eonian pertains to "to breathe" since most likely aeon originally meant "to breathe" just as originally *mabye* Gorgeous derived itself from "gorge".

When the New Testament was written aion was never used of that which is "eternal." That would be an oxymoron.

Age has a beginning and an end. To say that an age can be endless is a contradiction in terms. To say "endless age" is an oxymoron.

In the New Testament the eon is the longest segment of time but not eternal.
In the New Testament aionion/eonian is that which pertains to the eon or eons as the case may be.

In the New Testament psuchikos (soulish) is that which pertains to the soul psuchi.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish (psuchikos) man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

In the New Testament Heavenly (ouranios) as in "your heavenly Father" (Matt.5:48) is the Father which pertains to heaven (ouranos). The word "heavenly" when connected with "Father" is not all of a sudden changed to "transcending heaven."

Likewise Eonian (aionios) is that which pertains to the eons aionos. When eonian is connected with God (Rom.16:26) it does not all of a sudden mean "eon transcending." It means God pertaining to the eons.

No eon is eternal. Again that would be a contradiction in terms. Eternal eon is an oxymoron. God is not the author of confusion. The Bible says all the eons end. Therefore there is no eternal eon. It is impossible.

Furthermore, for those of you who wish to go deeper into this, this person did her Phd. dissertation on aion and aionios in Philo and the early Greek writers as well as the early church fathers and the New Testament and found:
 
"In the non-biblical usage, Dr. Keizer notes three distinct meanings of aion: (1) "life," (2) "time," and (3) "entirety," or a wholeness or completeness or a totality relating to a function of time. (Hence the title of her study.) She notes that the biblical aion is a creation of God (having no divinity, as pagan philosophy put forth). Her study found that neither Philo, nor later Church Fathers use aion to refer to the eternity of God. 2 Dr. Keizer pointed out some conclusions regarding the usage and meaning of aion in the New Testament: 3"

You can read about it here:
http://www.askelm.com/newsletter/l200501.htm

Col 2:8 Beware that no one shall be despoiling you through philosophy and empty seduction, in accord with human tradition, in accord with the elements of the world, and not in accord with Christ,

I am through answering Gabe directly. Beware, friends of the philosophy of the world.


Well, I checked out the link. It seems pretty definitive to me.  :2c:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
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God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

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martincisneros

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #344 on: January 31, 2009, 05:40:12 AM »
Yeah, if we were talking etymology, then aion would mean "to breathe" and aionios would mean "bone/spinal marrow," but that's not what we're talking about at all.  Aion and Aionios are emphatically "limited duration," or "limited duration pertaining to_____(fill in the blank)" in every instance of Septuignt and Apostolic Greek.  To argue it's usage in the Septuignt isn't an appeal to etymology since Greek goes considerably further back in time.  Or on etymology we'd have to go with Aristotle that aionios means having always existed.  Some say it's from aei, but aei is used 8 times in the New Testament and always of a limited duration in the New Testament.  Aion also has "memory of man" or "age of man" for it's earliest definitions, but no one at these boards makes those arguments.

 Macknight: (Scotch Presbyterian.) "These words being ambiguous, are always to be understood according to the nature and circumstances to which they are applied." He thinks the words sustain endless punishment, but adds: "At the same time I must be so candid as to acknowledge that the use of these terms, forever, eternal and everlasting, in other passages of Scripture, shows that they who understand these words in a limited sense, when applied to punishment, put no forced interpretation upon them.

Hanson cites Jones in his book as including "a good demon" in it's etymology.  Nobody here uses these etymological arguments when asserting that aion and aionios are necessarily limited in scope and duration.

Eternity was completely unknown to the ancients according to  Dr. Edward Beecher, Elhanan Winchester, and quite a few others.

In the Iliad and Odyssey Aión occurs thirteen times, as a noun, besides its occurrence as a participle in the sense of hearing, perceiving, understanding. Homer never uses it as signifying eternal duration. Priam to Hector says, "Thyself shall be deprived of pleasant aiónios" (life.) Andromache over dead Hector, "Husband thou hast perished from aiónios" (life or time.)

  Dr. Beecher writes "But there is a case that excludes all possibility of doubt or evasion, in the Homeric Hymn of Mercury, vs. 42 and 119. Here aión is used to denote the marrow as the life of an animal, as Moses calls the blood the life. This is recognized by Cousins in his Homeric Lexicon. In this case to pierce the life (aión) of a turtle means to pierce the spinal cord. The idea of life is here exclusive of time or eternity." These are fair illustrations of Homer's use of the word.

Hesiod employs it twice: "To him (the married man) during aiónios (life) evil is constantly striving, etc. Ćschulus has the word nineteen times, after this manner: "This life (aión) seems long, etc. "Jupiter, king of the never-ceasing world." (aiónios apaustau.)

Pindar gives thirteen instances, such as "A long life produces the four virtues."(Ela de kai tessaras aretas ho makros aión.)

Sophocles nine times. "Endeavor to remain the same in mind as long as you live." Askei toiaute noun di aiónos menein. He also employs makraion five times, as long-enduring. The word long increases the force of aión, which would be impossible if it had the idea of eternity.

Empedocles, An earthly body deprived of happy life, (aiónios.)

It having clearly appeared that the noun is uniformly used to denote limited duration, and never to signify eternity, it is equally apparent that the adjective must mean the same. The noun sweetness gives its flavor to its adjective, sweet. The adjective long means precisely the same as the noun length. When sweet stands for acidity, and long represents brevity, aiónios can properly mean eternal, derived from aión, which represents limited duration. To say that Plato, the inventor of the word, has used the adjective to mean eternal, when neither he nor any of his predecessors ever used the noun to denote eternity, would be to charge one of the wisest of men with etymological stupidity. Has he been guilty of such folly? How does he use the word?

Plato's usage of the word is noted here: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

Again, nobody's been using etymology to assert that aionios is always, consistently "a limited duration pertaining to_____(fill in the blank)."  It's just the facts of Septuignt and Apostolic.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #345 on: January 31, 2009, 06:54:56 AM »
One could say that there are two aeons or ages – one being finite, and the other one infinite. And within the finite there are two points of time; the beginning and the end, comprising of multiple (two or more) eras.

"The United States is composed of multiple states, but does not encompass the entire range of the world."

Whereas, in the infinite, there is no beginning, nor end. One is temporary, given the dimensions of space and time, while the other is eternal.  Thus, the ages live within the eternal.

"All will come to the knowledge of the truth, each in there own era."

The coming of age is an epoch time for those in this life. Those having dim eyes, not seeing, are merely unborn. At least until, they reach a certain age or point in time.

Most of us have a lot to learn and to unlearn in regards to these things. Tradition is a veil that covers the eyes of Christendom today, lest they should see the truth and give God the glory.

"Where were you when He laid the foundations of the earth, and the bounds thereof; from an infinite age."

In language, a metonymy is when you substitute some attribute or cause or effect of the thing for the thing itself.

"The word is mightier than the pen."

peacemaker

Offline Tony N

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #346 on: January 31, 2009, 12:59:15 PM »
peacemaker, you wrote:

One could say that there are two aeons or ages – one being finite, and the other one infinite.

Once could say an eon is a duck too. But would they be correct?

In the bible there is no infinite eon. Outside the Bible there is no infinite eon.

peacemaker, you put this in quotes:

"Where were you when He laid the foundations of the earth, and the bounds thereof; from an infinite age."

What translation were you quoting and what is the chaper and verse please? I think it is  bogus.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

pneuma

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #347 on: February 01, 2009, 12:06:13 AM »
Hi all, long thread, probably won't help but heres my two cents.




MUCH MORE then aionios life

Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.

They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.

But the Universalist need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.

Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.

The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.

Habakkuk 3:6
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.

Now the only way for those who believe in eternal torment can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence. Thus even though Matt says the Universalist must do this in order for their theology to work, we can see that those who believe in eternal torment must do this in order to make their theology to work. But the Unversalist need not do thing in order for their theology to work, I'll show why in a few minutes, please bare with me.



Psalm 41:13
13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.

Psalm 90:1-2
1  Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.   2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.
If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.

So as the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.

But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.
I already know many will say that's blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.

Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.

Psalm 90:1-2
1  Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.   2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.

The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.

The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.

Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.

Hebrews 7:16
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction
From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?

What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY  olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.

Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.

1 Peter 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,  4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 

Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end

Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?

These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.

If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.

Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.

Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.

Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.


Offline Tony N

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #348 on: February 01, 2009, 01:54:10 AM »
pneuma, nice post.

It is important to know that our future life goes beyone the eons due to putting on immortality.
Having eonian life for the believer is not immortality. Immortality allows us to live beyond the eons.

Nonetheless, it is a great blessing to be chosen for life eonian when many billions of people are not given this blessing.

Here is a little chart showing the eons. The eonian life promised is the life pertaining to the last two eons. Immortality allows us to live through them and beyond them. . .

|. . . eon one . . | . . eon two . . | . . eon three . . | . . eon four . . | . . eon five . . |

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|.. . . . . . . eonian life . . . . . .. |
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | . . . . . . . immortality . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

bobf

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Re: Aionios: Let's clear the water
« Reply #349 on: February 01, 2009, 02:10:43 AM »
Good post pneuma.... nice illustration Tony....  I can see this both ways.

Why doesn't everyone alive have aionios life right now?  After all, everyone's life is "pertaining to the aion" they live in.