Author Topic: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?  (Read 3503 times)

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Offline IceMan84

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ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« on: March 27, 2009, 07:06:22 AM »
Did anyone catch this on ABC Nightline tonight? They had a debate at a church where two people argued that Satan did exist, and two people took the counterargument. What are your thoughts about this? Do you definately believe in Satan or do you think it could be a myth?

martincisneros

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 07:13:24 AM »
No chance of Satan being a myth.  Zero chance of that.  And Zero chance of him being human, part of the ego, etc.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2009, 09:01:54 AM »
I guess that depends upon your beliefs?

"Look both ways before crossing the street of carnal syncretism; it's a two-way street which continually turns to the left, never right."

peacemaker

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009, 03:26:50 PM »
No chance of Satan being a myth.  Zero chance of that.  And Zero chance of him being human, part of the ego, etc.

Said the one blind man feeling the ear of the elephant to the blind man feeling the tail.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 03:28:22 PM »
Some people here believe Satan is in our flesh because we have sin in our flesh. But what about Jesus when he was in the wilderness being tried by Satan? Jesus did not have sin in His flesh. He was sinless. I believe that Satan was created by God to be the way he is and has always been since his creation: an adversary, a liar, a murderer. Satan is a created being, a spirit being.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 03:29:51 PM »
No chance of Satan being a myth.  Zero chance of that.  And Zero chance of him being human, part of the ego, etc.

Said the one blind man feeling the ear of the elephant to the blind man feeling the tail.

cp

The story of the blind men feeling the elephant is a myth. Satan is real.  :laughing7:
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 03:57:28 PM »
Satan is real alright. I see him operating in this forum once in a while!

Was Jesus tempted at all?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2009, 06:53:03 PM »
Satan is real alright. I see him operating in this forum once in a while!

Was Jesus tempted at all?

cp

No, He was never tempted and never gave into temptation. He was tried by the Adversary.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

martincisneros

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2009, 07:14:55 PM »
Tony N,  Please explain the difference you see in the usage of the word "tried" when other translations will have "tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin."  How does being tried differ?

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009, 07:29:53 PM »

A temptation is a trial.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2009, 07:54:18 PM »
I think there is a subtile difference. (that depends on context)

Satan tries the man. -> external action
When the man starts considering giving in he's tempted. -> internal action

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009, 08:12:03 PM »
Tony N,  Please explain the difference you see in the usage of the word "tried" when other translations will have "tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin."  How does being tried differ?

The Concordant Literal always uses "tried" and "trial" rather than tempt or temptation.

I believe Jesus was tried but never tempted. He didn't have sin in his flesh that made Him want to sin. But His faith was tried. He was tried in all points as we are.
                 TRIAL IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES

     In Hebrew two distinct words are rendered {tempt}, {bchn},
TEST, and {nse}, PROBE, try. The first is rendered {try, prove,
examine, tempt}, and the second {adventure, assay, prove, try,
tempt}, its noun ({msse}, PROBing) {massah}, {trial, temptation}.
The intertwining of these two words, and the needless variety of
renderings excuse, in part, the hazy conceptions which we have on
this subject. The former word we will ignore, as it corresponds
rather with the Greek {dokimazoo}, TEST. The latter corresponds
closely with the Greek word we have been considering, {peirazoo},
PROBize, try, so we render it the same. A weighty consideration
lies in the fact that it is always found in a special form in
Hebrew usually called {Piel}, in which the central letter is
doubled (nsse), and which we represent by the standard {make},
{make}-PROBE, {try out}, which corresponds closely with the
phrase {bring into trial}, or {put on trial}. This is the phrase
used by the apostle when referring to {Massah} (Trial) where the
sons of Israel "tempted the Lord" (+1 Cor.10:9; Ex.17:7).

     The force of this special form may be shown most clearly,
perhaps, by the Hebrew word {lmd}, LEARN, which changes to
{make}-LEARN, {teach}, when we double the middle letter (lmmd).
The "Hebrew" bibles with Chaldee characters do not repeat the
{m}, but put a small dot within it to indicate that it is to be
doubled. The force of this doubling may be seen in the Authorized
Version renderings. Moses said, "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and
judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may
{learn} them..." (+Deut.5:1). In the previous chapter he speaks
of the same statutes and judgments, "which I {teach} you" (4:1)
and that parents "may {teach} their children" (4:10). In Hebrew
{learn} and {teach} are only one word, as they should be, for the
action is the same. Only the direction is changed. We might say
that {teach} is an irregular form of {make-learn}. So {put on
trial} is the English {Piel (make- try}) for {try}.

p309                                  God Did Not {Tempt} Abraham

                    PUTTING THE LORD ON TRIAL

     You shall not put the Lord your God on trial, as you put Him
on trial at Massah (+Deut.6:16; Matt.4:7; Luke 4:12). These
quotations confirm our deductions as to the force of the Hebrew
form, which gives us the solution to this profound difficulty.
The Authorized Version says that "God did tempt Abraham"
(+Gen.22:1), yet, as we have seen, James insists that He does not
tempt any man (+James 1:13). Such questions come very close to
our hearts, and affect His glory, hence they urgently demand a
solution. As usual, the discrepancy lies only in the translation.
The word {tempt} is misleading. Even if we correct it to try,
that is not enough. It should be {made trial of, put on trial,
brought into trial}. God did not {try} Abraham in order to
discover what he would do, neither does He do so with any one. On
the other hand, He brought this trial upon him directly. Before
this we read that He knew Abraham (+Gen.18:19), so that every
trial would be superfluous.

     The standard example of the sin of putting Jehovah on trial
occurred at Rephidim, where there was no water for the people to
drink (+Ex.17:1-7). Then the people contended with Moses, and
murmured against him. Moses remonstrated, and said, "Why do you
put Jehovah on trial?" When they were almost ready to stone
Moses, he called on Jehovah, Who told him to smite the rock in
Horeb in the sight of the elders of Israel, so that water would
flow forth for the people. Alas! how often, when refreshment
fails, do we blame God, and contend with Him, instead of thanking
Him for the lack and looking forward to its sequel! There is
water everywhere. All that is needed is the rod of God. Then even
a rock will supply us with the life-sustaining fluid. So in every
trial that God sends us. It is intended to reveal His grace to
us, not to expose His impotence and lack of love. Let us never
blame Him or contend with His messengers! But, alas! how many
places in our wilderness might be called

p310                                    We {Probe} the Scriptures

Massah or Meribah! We continually put Jehovah on trial in our
unbelief.

     The purpose of the eons demands that man be put on trial so
that all His creatures may share God's knowledge of them. The
best way to learn is by experiment. Very little progress was made
in science during the middle ages because reasoning was deemed a
proper means of acquiring knowledge. When Galileo and others
began to put their deductions on trial, the experiments led to
real results. Men began to understand some of the phenomena in
nature. Since then physical and chemical science has been taught
largely by experiment. This is the method God uses during the
eonian times. Evil is the chief reagent in the first three eons.
It exposes our weakness and folly and sinfulness, yet prepares us
to appreciate the power and wisdom and grace of God.

     It may be helpful here to point out that the concordant
method is essentially the same as that used by God. We put
everything on trial to expose the facts and the truth. We do not
try the Scriptures to see if they are true, but probe to see what
the truth is. In this investigation, I reasoned out from the
passages in the Greek that the Hebrew word must be in the {Piel}
form. But I did not rest my ease on that, but looked up the word
in a Hebrew concordance. The fact that the Greek uses
{ekpeirazoo}, OUT-PROBE, put on trial, in translating the Hebrew
word (+Deut 6:16) rather than the simple form, was good ground
for deducing this, but the form of the Hebrew is actual evidence,
and an investigation of its contexts is a good example of its own
meaning. We tried it first to {learn} its meaning and now we put
it on trial in order to {teach} this to others.

     Trial is not an eternal institution. Not only is it confined
to the eons but it gradually vanishes during the eons of the
eons. The prayers of the disciples, "bring us not into the
trial," is a kingdom petition which will find its fulfillment in
that happy day. Evil will then be repu-

p311                         The Eons {Demonstrate} God's Ability

diated. Under the beneficent rule of the Messiah there will not
be much to try mankind. In the last eon, when all doom and dying
cease, there will be even less. It looks as if man's cup of trial
is nearly full. After it overflows in the coming affliction for
Israel and indignation for the nations, man's impotence and
insufficiency will have been exposed, and little more evil will
be needed. It is a comforting thought that we have nearly reached
the climax of this way, so that God's severity will soon give
place to His goodness in His dealings with mankind.

     Only unbelief will ever put Jehovah on trial. The eons were
not made to see if God can elope with sin and evil but to
{demonstrate} His ability and love. An unbeliever may raise his
hand on high and dare God to lower it if He is able. Even if God
does not interfere, that is no proof of His impotence. It does
not disprove His deity. It is only a pitiable disobedience to
God's own prohibition He will reveal Himself through Christ, not
through foolish experiments which prove nothing because they are
made in ignorance of His will and His ways and His Word. Let us
never put Him on trial {contrary} to His Word, but learn to know
Him {through} His Word!

                    GOD IS NOT TRIED BY EVILS

     In almost all of man's trials evil is used as the reagent.
Abraham was to slay his son. Job lost all of his children and
suffered from a sore disease. Our Lord was tried by hunger and
danger. Paul suffered much in the flesh. Who has not endured
evil? Such is the way that man is tried. But this method cannot
be used of God. Death and disease and hunger and danger cannot
touch Him, so that they cannot try Him. God cannot be {tried} by
{evil}. He must be {tested} by {good}. We can do nothing to harm
Him, but we can do much to please and glorify Him. Though evil
does not affect Him, yet good will bring a gracious response.

p312                                 God Controls Evil, We Cannot

                        TESTING THE LORD

     On the other hand, Jehovah invited His people to {test
(bchn}) Him. "Bring all the tithes to the treasury, and there
will be prey in My house. And {test} Me now in this, says Jehovah
of hosts, should I not open to you crevices in the heavens and
empty for you a blessing..." (+Mal.3:10). This is most
commendable and altogether different in motive and character from
putting Him on trial. One is done out of confidence, the other
springs from unbelief. Let us never question His ability or love
in any way, but rather let us give them opportunities to display
themselves. When we cast ourselves on God we test Him and
experience the truth of His Word. It is the exercise of faith, in
contrast to the unbelief which seeks to escape trial by putting
Jehovah on trial. Our Lord, at Satan's suggestion, could have
shortened His trial by means of miraculous bread, but He refused
to do so, for it is God's prerogative to put His creatures on
trial, not theirs to try Him out.

     One of the most serious lacks among the saints today is the
failure to give God His supreme, incomparable, exclusive place as
the Deity, in contrast to maggots of mud, such as we are. We are
so democratic that we demand equal rights with the Creator. If He
puts us on trial, we retaliate by trying Him out. We can have no
object in this except to expose Him, as if He also were subject
to the ravages of evil as we are. Being the Creator of evil, He
has a relation to it altogether unlike ours. Tn our utter
inability to cope with it, we would stamp it out of existence,
instead of bringing it into the world. He can use it because He
can control it. We cannot put God on trial by means of it because
we cannot control its operations or its results. However much we
may be affected by evil, God is not. It is no trial to Him.

     It is humiliating to acknowledge that, until recently, we
have not been as clear on this subject as we should have been.
Besides, in English the word {try} is used

p313                                       Anticipate the Sequel!

loosely to cover both of the separate senses which we seek to
distinguish. Hence there may be passages in our former writings
which seemingly contradict this later light. The word test also
encroaches on the territory of try in popular usage, so we will
need to use all of these words in a restricted and exclusive
sense if we desire to obtain a clear conception of this important
truth.

     May God Himself enable us to give Him the place due to His
deity! This will prepare our hearts for most of the grand truths
which are unknown or denied in these last days. The practical
denial of God's deity is the greatest hindrance to a heart
appreciation of His glorious ultimate, and to an understanding of
His ways at the present time, and especially in the midst of
trial. It is only as we are abased to the place proper to our
depravity, and He is exalted to the position becoming His deity,
that we can perceive the wisdom and love which inhere in our
trials, and are able to anticipate the sequel for which the trial
is the essential preparation. Then we will intuitively realize
that trial is for the creature, but not for God. Man must be
exposed by trial and failure by means of the Adversary. God must
be revealed by testing and success through Christ.       A. E. K.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 08:22:11 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009, 09:00:15 PM »
Tony N,  Please explain the difference you see in the usage of the word "tried" when other translations will have "tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin."  How does being tried differ?

The Concordant Literal always uses "tried" and "trial" rather than tempt or temptation.

I believe Jesus was tried but never tempted. He didn't have sin in his flesh that made Him want to sin. But His faith was tried. He was tried in all points as we are.


Is anyone tempted then or are we all tried?

What, in your opinion, is 'tried'?

What happened to Jesus when He was tried?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009, 09:55:41 PM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009, 10:20:46 PM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.

Forgive my shallowness but are you saying Jesus was put on trial by Satan?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 10:52:31 PM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.

Forgive my shallowness but are you saying Jesus was put on trial by Satan?

cp

Mat 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the spirit to be tried by the Adversary."
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2009, 01:00:48 AM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.

Forgive my shallowness but are you saying Jesus was put on trial by Satan?

cp

Mat 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the spirit to be tried by the Adversary."

What does this mean to us then?

Satan put Jesus on trial like Jesus was a criminal and Jesus passed the test or trial so Satan had to let Him go?

Jesus was led by Satan. This sounds like Jesus was wrestling with something deep within. A battle of sorts within His being much like when He sweat great drops of blood. Such inner struggles our Lord endured!

cp

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2009, 02:18:36 AM »
Temptation ...

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. (Matthew 4:1)

And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan (by an adversary, or accuser?); and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. (Mark 1:13)

The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting, desired him that he would show them a sign from heaven [of power].  (Matthew 16:1)

But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt you, me, you hypocrites? (Matthew 22:18)

And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. (Mark 8:11)

And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season. (Luke 4:13)

And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven [of power]. (Luke 11:16)

But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt you, me? (Luke 20:23)


Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation."

He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

An angel (messenger) from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And, being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
 
When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. "Why are you sleeping?" he asked them. "Get up and pray, so that you will not fall into temptation." (Luke 22:39-46)


... take this cup from me? :coffee:


"God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, ... condemned sin in the flesh" (Romans 8:3)

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL points tempted like as we are, yet, without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Hebrews 4:15)

 
James 1:2-27

Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials (temptations) of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.
 
The brother in humble circumstances ought to take pride in his high position. But the one who is rich should take pride in his low position, because he will pass away like a wild flower. For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich man will fade away even while he goes about his business.

Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial (temptation), because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
 
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
 
Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first-fruits of all he created.

My dear brothers, take note of this:

Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
 
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word, but does not do what it says, is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.
 
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.


For in that he himself has suffered, being tempted, he is able to succour (help) them that are tempted.  (Hebrews 2:18)

 
Why not stay with what the Bible says, even if it disturbs your beliefs?

peacemaker
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 02:32:51 AM by peacemaker »

Offline Taffy

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2009, 02:52:42 AM »
The Lying Tongue is given, so those  who are HIS\will be , BE tested\tried\tempted\ so, can be Proven


CAN it be more simple than THAT! :icon_flower:
even the lying tongues of the Prophets( certain ones) of old we given do such!


 :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 02:57:17 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Tony N

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2009, 04:49:40 AM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.

Forgive my shallowness but are you saying Jesus was put on trial by Satan?

cp

Mat 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the spirit to be tried by the Adversary."

What does this mean to us then?

Satan put Jesus on trial like Jesus was a criminal and Jesus passed the test or trial so Satan had to let Him go?

Jesus was led by Satan. This sounds like Jesus was wrestling with something deep within. A battle of sorts within His being much like when He sweat great drops of blood. Such inner struggles our Lord endured!

cp

cp, the Scripture does not say Jesus was led by Satan but by the spirit which is the spirit of God. Just as God's spirit led His Son to by tried by the religious elite in Israel as well as the Gentile elite prior to His death and eventually to His death as well, thus also did God lead His beloved Son to be tried by the Adversary. This was most likely to let us know that Jesus was sinless and indeed was the chosen spotless Lamb of God to be the one to be THE Messiah.

It seems to me that Christ easily fluffed off all the proffered illicit things Satan threw at Him. And as you say, the real trial was in the garden prior to His death. I think He just had a real hard time dealing with being, for the first time, cut off from His blessed Father for three days and nights. I think that was harder for Him than His assasination.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2009, 04:46:23 PM »
His allegiance to God was tried as was His faith.

To try is I guess to put one on trial or in a trial.

Forgive my shallowness but are you saying Jesus was put on trial by Satan?

cp

Mat 4:1 "Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the spirit to be tried by the Adversary."

What does this mean to us then?

Satan put Jesus on trial like Jesus was a criminal and Jesus passed the test or trial so Satan had to let Him go?

Jesus was led by Satan. This sounds like Jesus was wrestling with something deep within. A battle of sorts within His being much like when He sweat great drops of blood. Such inner struggles our Lord endured!

cp

cp, the Scripture does not say Jesus was led by Satan but by the spirit which is the spirit of God. Just as God's spirit led His Son to by tried by the religious elite in Israel as well as the Gentile elite prior to His death and eventually to His death as well, thus also did God lead His beloved Son to be tried by the Adversary. This was most likely to let us know that Jesus was sinless and indeed was the chosen spotless Lamb of God to be the one to be THE Messiah.

It seems to me that Christ easily fluffed off all the proffered illicit things Satan threw at Him. And as you say, the real trial was in the garden prior to His death. I think He just had a real hard time dealing with being, for the first time, cut off from His blessed Father for three days and nights. I think that was harder for Him than His assasination.

I hear that. Both events speak to me of major inner struggles. From one angle, these presentations in Scripture are two beings doing mental battle (at least the presentation of Jesus and Satan in the wilderness) yet from another angle, they are the battles we all have within when struggling with things. It is so refreshing to see how the Divine wins out in the end in every situation. Gives me hope for myself and others. Makes me love God more and my neighbor as myself.

I know God has 'led' me into many battles that take place in my mind but are as real as the physical reality of two countries at war. Decision making/choices are no easy accomplishments much of the time!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

trettep

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2009, 09:11:32 PM »
My belief is that Jesus was tried by Satan.  I believe Satan is the spirit of disobedience.  Satan is among all who have flesh.  Satan wanted Jesus to perform his works which are sin. I don't view Satan as existing apart from man.  In other words, if man doesn't exist then Satan doesn't exist.  Peter was called Satan by Jesus Christ when Peter was exhibiting a disobedient nature.  It is clear that to be made after the God-kind includes the knowledge of Good and Evil.  So when Jesus was tried by Satan, Satan (spirit of disobedience) was these thoughts in Jesus' mind that were trying to get Him to cater to His own flesh instead of God.  Now when you consider it this way then you will realize that Jesus was tried as we are.  For the scriptures say this:

Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So the ownership of our lust according to scripture IS US!

So the tempter would be the disobedient attribute that was a component of the knowledge of evil within Christ. 

Paul

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009, 09:38:50 PM »
 :cloud9: I'm not taking sides on it because He's not shown me enough for me to be firm about it one way or another, but I remember reading a comment Norvel Hayes (I think it was him) said God said one time when he asked Him why He didn't just kill Satan and get it over with. He said the Lord said, "I can't, because then you'd die!"

Which was real similar to what He had said to me previously one time, when I asked Him why He just couldn't deliver us of all the soulish mess at one time and get it over with. He said, "Because if I did, you'd die from the shock of it." Just my  :2c:  Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009, 11:37:15 PM »
My belief is that Jesus was tried by Satan.  I believe Satan is the spirit of disobedience.  Satan is among all who have flesh.  Satan wanted Jesus to perform his works which are sin. I don't view Satan as existing apart from man.  In other words, if man doesn't exist then Satan doesn't exist.  Peter was called Satan by Jesus Christ when Peter was exhibiting a disobedient nature.  It is clear that to be made after the God-kind includes the knowledge of Good and Evil.  So when Jesus was tried by Satan, Satan (spirit of disobedience) was these thoughts in Jesus' mind that were trying to get Him to cater to His own flesh instead of God.  Now when you consider it this way then you will realize that Jesus was tried as we are.  For the scriptures say this:

Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So the ownership of our lust according to scripture IS US!

So the tempter would be the disobedient attribute that was a component of the knowledge of evil within Christ. 

Paul

Paul, you and Card have some great thoughts on this. I am agreeing with what I am seeing here. I understand how people can take it other ways as again, Truth is likened to a diamond with many facets. The literal approach just doesn't make sense to me though. I can see why God personifies Satan as He does with 'wisdom'. It's a good way to explain the workings of a disobedient nature or the workings of wisdom itself.

Like Card or someone once asked, if Satan is this single being then does that mean no more than one person at a time can be possessed by Satan? I don't think so.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline willieH

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Re: ABC Nightline...Does Satan Exist?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2009, 01:20:57 AM »
willieH: Hi CP!  :hithere:

My belief is that Jesus was tried by Satan.  I believe Satan is the spirit of disobedience.  Satan is among all who have flesh.  Satan wanted Jesus to perform his works which are sin. I don't view Satan as existing apart from man.  In other words, if man doesn't exist then Satan doesn't exist.  Peter was called Satan by Jesus Christ when Peter was exhibiting a disobedient nature.  It is clear that to be made after the God-kind includes the knowledge of Good and Evil.  So when Jesus was tried by Satan, Satan (spirit of disobedience) was these thoughts in Jesus' mind that were trying to get Him to cater to His own flesh instead of God.  Now when you consider it this way then you will realize that Jesus was tried as we are.  For the scriptures say this:

Jas 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

So the ownership of our lust according to scripture IS US!

So the tempter would be the disobedient attribute that was a component of the knowledge of evil within Christ. 

Paul

Paul, you and Card have some great thoughts on this. I am agreeing with what I am seeing here. I understand how people can take it other ways as again, Truth is likened to a diamond with many facets. The literal approach just doesn't make sense to me though. I can see why God personifies Satan as He does with 'wisdom'. It's a good way to explain the workings of a disobedient nature or the workings of wisdom itself.

Like Card or someone once asked, if Satan is this single being then does that mean no more than one person at a time can be possessed by Satan? I don't think so.

cp

Me 2, ...CP!  I agree with Pauls post as well...  :thumbsup:

...willieH  :cloud9: