Author Topic: A very tough questions.  (Read 9964 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2009, 08:22:45 AM »
Romans 2:29
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2009, 08:30:58 AM »
That promise [the covenant made with Abraham's seed] is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.



15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


--Gal 3


Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2009, 08:40:25 AM »
The promise of God to Abraham is reckoned through Isaac.  The covenant is brought to us through the free woman, Sarah.  We are the children of that covenant, a miracle of God.



6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


--Rom 9



Galatians 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 08:43:59 AM by Molly »

Offline jabcat

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2009, 08:51:01 AM »

We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?

Tony, you are right. All of the Bible is for our learning and all of the things that happened to others are for our example but not all of the Bible pertains to us. Most of the Bible is for, to, and about Israel. Take the Law of Moses for instance, most would agree that the law was only for Israel, not Gentiles. Jesus Himself said "I am sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Most of his message was for them.

CHB

 :2thumbs:  Paul's epistles are to the nations, although I believe we can certainly learn, be edified, and have many spiritual nuggets revealed to us from every word that proceeds...

Molly, Galatians 3:16 from The Christian Bible (1991) is awesome on the promise as well... "Now the promises were declared to Abraham and his Seed.  It doesn't say, "and to the seeds,", in the plural, but in the singular, "and to your Seed", that is, the Anointed One."    So again, it all comes right back to Jesus, doesn't it?  God's blessing, James. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 08:53:05 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2009, 08:55:36 AM »
It was always only ever about the root and the offspring of David, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the Lord Jesus Christ.


Offline jabcat

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2009, 08:58:03 AM »
Amen, "the Lamb slain before..."  And one day, even those Lost Sheep, will recognize their Messiah!  After the fullness of the Gentiles has come in...
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2009, 09:25:55 AM »
The Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world. [Rev 13:8]

"from"
G575
ἀπό
apo
apo'
A primary particle; "off", that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.




But we were chosen in him before the foundation of the world.


Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

"before"
G4253
πρό
pro
pro
A primary preposition; "fore", that is, in front of, prior (figuratively superior) to. In compounds it retains the same significations: - above, ago, before, or ever. In compounds it retains the same significations.



And, we were kept secret [hidden][ in him] until 'now.'



26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


--Col 1


"which hath been hid"

G613
ἀποκρύπτω
apokruptō
ap-ok-roop'-to
From G575 and G2928; to conceal away (that is, fully); figuratively to keep secret: - hide.


For, being dead, we were hid with Christ in God.


Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.


"hid"

G2928
κρύπτω
kruptō
kroop'-to
A primary verb; to conceal (properly by covering): - hide (self), keep secret, secret [-ly].


21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

--Gen 3


[and] "clothed" [them]

H3847
לבשׁ    לבשׁ
lâbash lâbêsh
law-bash', law-bashe'
A primitive root; properly wrap around, that is, (by implication) to put on a garment or clothe (oneself, or another), literally or figuratively: - (in) apparel, arm, array (self), clothe (self), come upon, put (on, upon), wear.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 09:33:54 AM by Molly »

Offline jabcat

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2009, 10:06:18 AM »
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is?  Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)?  I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

IceDash

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2009, 10:37:04 AM »
we will still be eating and drinking when Jesus come back, notice what he said in the last supper in the bible, "I promised I will not drink again until I come back"

That's mean even we have a new body and a new spirit, we still eat and drink! Even isaish aprrove this somewhere near the end.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2009, 03:22:59 PM »
Quote from: tony
We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?

Those in Israel?  You mean the present day, 50 year old country of Israel?

Then why would he send them to preach the gospel to the entire world?

And, where do we see any who call themselves 'Israel' or 'Jews' in present day, or even in the past,  number more than the sand of the sea?


They never did the great commission, never made disciples of all the nations, never did baptize the nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

They didn't even finish evangelizing the cities of Israel which they had to do before going to the nations:

Mat 10:23 Now, whenever they may be persecuting you in this city, flee into a different one, for, verily, I am saying to you, Under no circumstances should you be finishing the cities of Israel till the Son of Mankind may be coming."

The great commission will be taken up again when Christ comes back and Israel disciples all the nations under the 12 apostles ruling over the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Zeek

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2009, 03:28:01 PM »
Col 1

5…the gospel

6which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing… (Col. 1:5b-6)

…the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven (Col. 1:23b, KJV)


Zeek

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2009, 03:29:50 PM »
Rom 1:8  First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom 10:18  But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2009, 04:19:01 PM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."

Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.

You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?

cp

All 66 books are holy Scripture.

How do you know this Brother?

Quote
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know. 

 :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired."


So you base your very life on something not based nor confirmed in the Bible?

But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.

Yes, the Bible does say that all Scripture is inspired and you have chosen to believe that the 66 books are what comprises Scripture. You have chosen this belief based upon what? Tradition? Instinct? Your own wisdom?

Again I am sincere here and you are a knowledgable and very exact kind of person so I know you represent many others.

cp

Tony and others, I apologize. I am so far off topic here that I want to suggest my questions here to Tony be brought over to the Members section thread.

Try this if interested.....

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=5036.50

It's already ongoing and very important to me. I am scared and overwhelmed in God at the same time.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

DaughterofDavid

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2009, 05:49:32 PM »
Abraham [Abram] was a gentile.  His father was a pagan. 




2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

--Josh 24



God set him apart and made a covenant with him--that he would be the progenitor of many nations.



Genesis 17:4
"As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.

Genesis 17:5
No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.


The word, 'nations,' means gentiles.


"nations"
H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


That promise is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.



Hi Molly,

Gen 14:13 "Then came in a fugitive, and told Abram the Hebrew,—he, having his dwelling among the oaks of Mature the Amorite "

Yes, Abram's father was a pagan....and after Abram received & obeyed the call of Yahweh....

"And Yahweh said unto Abram: Come thou on thy way, Out of thy land and out of the place of thy birth and out of the house of thy father,—Unto the land that I will show thee;"

.....he then was referred to as a Hebrew....for he 'crossed over'....for he had left all that he knew to come into the "NEW".

This is the type/shadow for us as we leave Egypt(the world) we partake of the passover (The shed blood of Christ)...and we 'cross over' from death to life.

So all those that have crossed over too....are Hebrews....

Be blessed,
DoD



Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2009, 06:02:21 PM »
Hi DOD--

Hebrew comes from the name Eber who is one of the ancestors of Abram through Shem.

Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.


"Eber"

H5676
עבר
‛êber
ay'-ber
From H5674; properly a region across; but used only adverbially (with or without a preposition) on the opposite side (especially of the Jordan; usually meaning the east): -  X against, beyond, by, X from, over, passage, quarter, (other, this) side, straight.


H5674
עבר
‛âbar
aw-bar'
A primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literally or figuratively; transitively, intransitively, intensively or causatively); specifically to cover (in copulation): - alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-) come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass (-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim (-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress (-or), translate, turn away, [way-] faring man, be wrath.



Thanks for that DOD.  It's amazing all the little tidbits he hides for us. :HeartThrob:


John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.



Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2009, 06:10:02 PM »
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is?  Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)?  I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?

I think it's pretty clear--the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--

When and where did that happen?  Is there an account given of it in the Bible?

Could this be the account?



23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


--Gen 3



"foundation" [of the world]

G2602
καταβολή
katabolē
kat-ab-ol-ay'
From G2598; a deposition, that is, founding; figuratively conception: - conceive, foundation.



G2598
καταβάλλω
kataballō
kat-ab-al'-lo
From G2596 and G906; to throw down: - cast down, lay.




1 Corinthians 15:36
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:


« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 06:24:01 PM by Molly »

DaughterofDavid

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2009, 06:11:13 PM »
Hi DOD--

Hebrew comes from the name Eber who is one of the ancestors of Abram through Shem.

Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.


"Eber"

H5676
עבר
‛êber
ay'-ber
From H5674; properly a region across; but used only adverbially (with or without a preposition) on the opposite side (especially of the Jordan; usually meaning the east): -  X against, beyond, by, X from, over, passage, quarter, (other, this) side, straight.


H5674
עבר
‛âbar
aw-bar'
A primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literally or figuratively; transitively, intransitively, intensively or causatively); specifically to cover (in copulation): - alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-) come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass (-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim (-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress (-or), translate, turn away, [way-] faring man, be wrath.



Thanks for that DOD.  It's amazing all the little tidbits he hides for us. :HeartThrob:


John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.




Hi Molly,

It is AMAZING isn't it??

I love that verse you quoted...John 5:24...

I also want to add that this 'crossing over' ....is ONGOING....as we see in the biblical feasts of the Lord....

Passover>>Pentecost>>Tabernacles.....always a progression in our walks with Christ....until we are ALL IN ALL....filled with the fullness of the Godhead bodily....spirit,soul,body.

What an amazing Lord....He did this for us.....I still get teary just thinking on it....I love you Lord. :ginlove:

Be blessed beloved Molly, :HeartThrob:
DoD

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2009, 06:16:17 PM »
DOD,

Any chance you could start a thread on the feasts?

You mentioned them in another thread--and I would like to learn more.

DaughterofDavid

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2009, 06:24:11 PM »
DOD,

Any chance you could start a thread on the feasts?

You mentioned them in another thread--and I would like to learn more.

Wow,

That is so cool of you to ask...I would love to start on a thread on the Feasts....and I know that there are others here at Tentmaker that could share alot too....(Cardinal, Sheila, Pneuma...ect...)

Interestingly, Passover is coming up in about a month or so....then that leads right into the Feast of Unleavened bread...and proceeds to Pentecost....(these are the Spring Feasts)....so maybe that would be a good beginning...just to examine all the types/shadows of the Spring Feasts....and how these become REALITIES within our own lives as we partake of them.

Thank you Molly for asking and I am blessed. :bigGrin:
DoD

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2009, 07:49:52 PM »
I think it's pretty clear--the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--

When and where did that happen?  Is there an account given of it in the Bible?

Could this be the account?

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Adam=Jesus?
(makes me think of the reincarnation thread)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2009, 08:16:08 PM »
I think it's pretty clear--the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world--

When and where did that happen?  Is there an account given of it in the Bible?

Could this be the account?

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Adam=Jesus?
(makes me think of the reincarnation thread)


I am the root and the offspring of David,...

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


--Rev 22


Jesus must always be the first, and given the pre-eminence in all things.

Do you really think some silly, clueless man who couldn't keep one commandment straight caused all humans to die for all generations to come?  (This is how Adam is portrayed by the church.)


1 Corinthians 15:21
For since by man [Adam] came death, by man [Adam] came also the resurrection of the dead.



Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2009, 08:34:20 PM »
So the answer is yes. I had that thought for a while. After my post I found a nice article. Well Mr. Google found it for me  :laughing7:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen041.html

Quote
I am the root and the offspring of David
Some say Adam=David=Jesus. (see above mentioned article)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2009, 08:41:58 PM »
So the answer is yes. I had that thought for a while. After my post I found a nice article. Well Mr. Google found it for me  :laughing7:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen041.html

Quote
I am the root and the offspring of David
Some say Adam=David=Jesus. (see above mentioned article)
I'm not talking about reincarnation.  I'm talking about God.

If you do not know who Adam is, how can you know who you are?

The root of David is the first Adam.

The offspring of David is the last Adam.


Matthew 22:45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2009, 09:11:04 PM »
Did you read the article?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2009, 09:17:45 PM »
Well, some say 'from', some 'before'...some say "slain from, but determined/chosen to be slain before"...what do you believe the significance of either way is?  Are we missing something with one and not the other (besides accuracy/what God actually said)?  I'll look at some more literal translations...what'cha think?
Before creation there was no thing.  God is no thing.  Only God existed.  To make room for a creation God vacated something of Himself.  The Lamb was slain.  This is the source of the new creation.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!