Author Topic: A very tough questions.  (Read 10017 times)

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Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2009, 10:44:31 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2009, 10:45:47 PM »
Drink all the beer you want without getting drunk???  Not sure if it's worth drinking then, eh? :laughing7:

Just empty a few bottles of spirit then.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2009, 10:49:33 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.

Veering away again Paul . . . in the Spirit . . there is neither Jew nor Greek . . .male or female . . .we're all in that together.  This literalist view of yours seems to shift around to support all your ideals from time to time. 

In me is Christ . . .meekness is part of the nature of Christ . . . when I manifest meekness, I manifest Christ and yes, the meek shall 'inherit" the earth . . . it's another gift that we receive by way of relationship rather than earnings of labor.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2009, 10:52:50 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises.  He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:

How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2009, 10:57:10 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises.  He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:

How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2009, 10:57:53 PM »
 :cloud9: But who are those of Israel? Are they not those "men" (spirit) who have had the circumcision of their hearts, and have not known a woman (flesh)? Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2009, 10:58:39 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

We are all like sheep who have gone astray . . .
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises.  He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:

How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?

Don't know why this didn't post originally . . all I said was what Molly just said . . .we are all as lost sheep.  He is the good shepherd . . . come on Tony, this is elementary even for me . . .
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 11:03:54 PM by Nathan »

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2009, 11:00:34 PM »
Quote from: Tony
Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?

Yes I am a sheep.  I was lost.  The house of Israel itself was lost to history.  Nobody knows who they are except for God.


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.



Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2009, 11:08:55 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

We are all like sheep who have gone astray . . .
Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

That is not very meek of you to say that  :laughing7:
It is the meek of Israel that will inherit the earth. Jesus was sent only went and spoke to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The promises are for them.

Paul was sent by Christ as the nation's apostle. He said we are going to the celestials when Christ comes for us.
I'm just standing on his promises.  He made me love his physical world (sans bugs) for a reason. :laughing7:

How do you know I'm not one of those lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Do you have wool?
Do you go "baaaa"?
Are you lost?
Is your house in Israel?

Don't know why this didn't post originally . . all I said was what Molly just said . . .we are all as lost sheep.  He is the good shepherd . . . come on Tony, this is elementary even for me . . .

We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2009, 11:12:37 PM »
Quote from: tony
We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?

Those in Israel?  You mean the present day, 50 year old country of Israel?

Then why would he send them to preach the gospel to the entire world?

And, where do we see any who call themselves 'Israel' or 'Jews' in present day, or even in the past,  number more than the sand of the sea?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 11:17:28 PM by Molly »

Offline sheila

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2009, 11:14:32 PM »


  i have other sheep, which are not of this fold, them too,

      I must bring

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2009, 11:15:44 PM »
And yet for us of the nations He will be discarding the food as well as the bowels of our new bodies.
The problem is to make that condition "for us of the nations," i.e., "us racially gentiles" with another assignment for the "racially Jewish" as rulership in the Millennium.  I don't find that kind of thing directly stated in Scripture words.  It seems there will be those yet being born of Adam at that time.  Rather than death at the culmination of their earthly sojourn, they will normally be entering into a fulfilled Feast of Tabernacles under the ministry of immortals.

It seems that without the need to eat we may be able to, even without bowels as Jesus did after His resurrection.  Something else happens to what we interact with by consuming.  Another approach to the problem is to understand the resurrected Jesus was staying in a descended aspect for a while before He ascended.  In ascension He comes as spirit to cohabit our bodies with us.  At some point in ascension there are no more bowels? or, this is farther in the future for immortals?  At any rate, it seem there are no bowels, possibly for a resurrected or transfigured body, but none certainly for ascended embodiment.  (?)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 11:18:40 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2009, 11:26:42 PM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2009, 11:38:07 PM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 03:03:47 AM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2009, 11:44:03 PM »
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on.  Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism.  They had a falling out over UR.  Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group.  It's not just "literalism."  It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all.  It is "Racial Dispensationaism."  It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.

Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.

Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 11:45:52 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2009, 11:53:37 PM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."

Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.

You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline CHB

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2009, 12:41:29 AM »

We are not the lost sheep of the house of Israel, never were and never will be. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those IN Israel whom Jesus came to seek and to save. That is what He said. Do you believe Him?

Tony, you are right. All of the Bible is for our learning and all of the things that happened to others are for our example but not all of the Bible pertains to us. Most of the Bible is for, to, and about Israel. Take the Law of Moses for instance, most would agree that the law was only for Israel, not Gentiles. Jesus Himself said "I am sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Most of his message was for them.

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2009, 01:14:16 AM »
  Isaaih 49  a testimony about Jesus Christ

    v5 and now the Lord says- he who formed me in the womb to

  be his srvant,to bring back Jacob and gather Israel to himself,

  for I am honored in the Lord and my God has been my

strength- he says;

   IT IS TOO SMALL A THING FOR YOU TO BE MY SERVANT

   TO RESTORE THE TRIBES OF JACOB AND BRING BACK

   THOSE OF ISRAEL I HAVE KEPT

   I WILL ALSO MAKE OU A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES,

   THAT YOU MAY BRING MY SALVATION TO THE ENDS OF THE

   EARTH. v 22 this is what the Sovereign Lord says;

    SEE,I WILL BECKON TO THE GENTILES, I WILL LIFT UP

    MY BANNER TO THE PEOPLES, THEY WILL BRING YOUR SONS

   IN THEIR ARMS,AND CARRY YOUR DAUGHTERS ON THEIR

   SHOULDERS.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2009, 02:59:57 AM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."

Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.

You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?

cp

All 66 books are holy Scripture.
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know.  :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired." But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2009, 03:02:30 AM »
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on.  Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism.  They had a falling out over UR.  Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group.  It's not just "literalism."  It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all.  It is "Racial Dispensationaism."  It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.

Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.

Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.

I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2009, 03:22:17 AM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."

Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.

You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?

cp

All 66 books are holy Scripture.
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know.  :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired." But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.

Tony, very serious question here........

Why do you believe that the 66 books that we have are what comprises all Scripture especially since Scripture does not back it up?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

DaughterofDavid

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2009, 03:39:28 AM »
A. E. Knoch was very together with Bullinger early on.  Bullinger is so into racial dipensationalism people even speak of Bullingerism.  They had a falling out over UR.  Tony's church group, I don't know the history, but they are very together with Knoch, though his group was in California. Tony could say if Knoch founded his church, though he was certainly influential in the forming of Tony's fellowship group.  It's not just "literalism."  It's a lot for which there is nothing stated in the text of Scripture at all.  It is "Racial Dispensationaism."  It's hard for me to understand why Knoch stayed there, considering how devoted he was to making our confession of faith using the actual words God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known.

Epesians 2:11-18 (CLV) . . .
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.
17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near,
18 for through Him we both have had the access, in one spirit, to the Father.

Racial Dispensationalism rebuilds the partition betweem Jew and Gentile that was torn down by Christ's death.

I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony

Hello Reformer,

First of all I want to say how much I have enjoyed reading your posts ....I have been a viewer for awhile and I have been blessed by many things you have written.

I honor the Lord's workmanship in your life.

I like this that you wrote above....and I also wanted to add to this conversation that most within Christendom have no clue as to WHO ISRAEL is referring to.

They think that all Jews (House of Judah) represent all of Israel....and in particular they think that the land over in the Middle East is *Israel*....Israel is the sum total of ALL TWELVE TRIBES. Spiritually Israel represents the OVERCOMERS...for the very name Israel means 'one who has prevailed,overcome with God'.

The House of Israel....also known/referred to as the House of Joseph or House of Ephraim....were all part of the Northern Kingdom that was taken captive by Assyria....and then dispersed into the nations and eventually all lost their IDENTITY of being Hebrews.

Most people don't realize this but Abraham was not Jewish. Yep, look it up for yourself....He was a Hebrew...and what does Hebrew mean?? It means 'one who has crossed over'.

As in crossing over....from death to life....

This is why when one has given their heart to Yahshua and partaken of the 'spiritual feast of Passover' they now are of ABRAHAM's seed...of THE CHRIST....for they have passed from death to life....for as in adam all die so too in Christ shall all be made alive.

There is so much historical data concerning the 10 tribes being dispersed....and once again most within Christendom don't realize that it was these that Paul ministered to...and were the *Gentiles*....for they had absorbed so much of the pagan customs of the lands they were living in.

This points to the beautiful picture of Joseph representing the 'church'....for He too lost His identity and his own brethren did not even recoginize him.....so too has modern christianity lost it's Hebraic identity through the much of what Constatine introduced.

These 2 houses will be reunited ....under the Lordship of Yahshua.....for Ez. 37: 16-22...speaks of the Two Sticks becoming ONE....

Be blessed my brother!
DoD

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2009, 03:53:42 AM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp

Tony, believe it or not, the above question to you relates to the lost sheep of Israel and the food discussions you are in. Can you comment on it? You must have overlooked it with so much going on here. I truely desire your input for reasons of my own but I do think they may shed light here, as I said. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

cp

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be equipped, fitted out for every good act."

1Th 2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."

Good verses Tony but it doesn't say that the 66 books we refer to as Scripture are Scripture.

You base all of your life on what is written in what we call the Bible but how do we know that is what God wants us to do? Aren't there other God inspired words out there that can equip us and fit us for Gods work?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that the 66 books we call the Bible are what you are referring to when you quote the verses above?

cp

All 66 books are holy Scripture.

How do you know this Brother?

Quote
Yes, of course I base all my life on what is written in what I call the bible. How do I know that is what God wants us to do that? I just quoted the verse that tells us to do that, that is how I know. 

 :bigGrin: It does not specifically have to say "The 66 books call the Bible are inspired."


So you base your very life on something not based nor confirmed in the Bible?

But the Bible does say that ALL Scripture is inspired and I believe that the 66 books we have are what comprises ALL Scripture.

Yes, the Bible does say that all Scripture is inspired and you have chosen to believe that the 66 books are what comprises Scripture. You have chosen this belief based upon what? Tradition? Instinct? Your own wisdom?

Again I am sincere here and you are a knowledgable and very exact kind of person so I know you represent many others.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2009, 08:03:06 AM »
I never heard of "Racial Dispensationalism." Knoch was not into that, I can assure you of that. He taught that the body of Christ today is comprised of Jew and Gentile and that both are on equal footing. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it is incorrect.
Tony
Please 1.) define a Jew and 2.) define gentile and 3.) explain the juxtoposition or relatedness of the two terms.

I'm tempted to get out of this discussion.  It could mean a lot of time and work.  I get more edified by worship and sharing things of the life of the Lord.  Controversy can get into a way that alienates brethren.  I do think this is a worthy topic; but, for any deeply into dispensationalism (which is racial,) I have yet to convince them to be of another mind.  Certainly I don't expect to change Tony.  I like Tony and so many things he has written. For a number of years I've received a newletter he writes in and it has been very much of a blessing.  To the best of my knowledge, never in that letter have they promoted the teaching we're looking at.  Articles from it may be read at http://www.saviourofall.org
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 08:19:53 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2009, 08:18:30 AM »
Abraham [Abram] was a gentile.  His father was a pagan. 




2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

--Josh 24



God set him apart and made a covenant with him--that he would be the progenitor of many nations.



Genesis 17:4
"As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.

Genesis 17:5
No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.


The word, 'nations,' means gentiles.


"nations"
H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


That promise is finally realized in the Lord Jesus Christ.