Author Topic: A very tough questions.  (Read 9791 times)

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Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2009, 11:15:20 PM »
This 'literal" thinking is where I do struggle with much.  What benefit is there for the Bible/God/HG to tell us that our PHYSICAL bowels will be removed?  It's seems to be such a mute point when we do this to ourselves.  It's an old soapbox but it keeps coming back up . . .the flesh - - profiteth- - NOTHING. 

As I write that, I'm immediately reminded that responses such as what I'm doing here are the kind that add fuel to a not so big fire . .to the point where it can be too big a fire for the mods to remain silent on.  So . . .

May I politely say . . . I adamantly disagree that the physical is to be the focus of any message Scripture refers to . . and just leave it at that.

Nathan, the pysical surely is the focus when it is the focus:

1Co 7:4 The wife has not the jurisdiction of her own body, but the husband, yet likewise the husband also has not the jurisdiction of his own body, but the wife."

That's physical.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2009, 11:27:01 PM »
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.





Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


1 Cor 15
49And as we have borne the image of the [one] made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly [one].



Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2009, 01:40:30 AM »
I don't know if this helps anything or makes it worse; but, He said, "Behold! I make all things new," not, I am making all new things.

Maybe Tony knows; but, I can't certify which is actually meant or not.

"And He Who is sitting on the throne said, 'Lo! New am I making all!'" (Rv 21:5, CLV)

In that He'll eventually collapse the entire cosmos, folding it up for a keepsake ("memorial") I suppose He will create new worlds.  It seems first, however, for now, "...if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive [old] passed by. Lo! there has come new!  Yet all is of God..." (2 Co 5:17-18, CLV)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

IceDash

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2009, 02:30:45 AM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2009, 02:35:28 AM »
 :cloud9: Good posts, guys......I mentioned this in another post somewhere, but I can see the napkin that was over His face/nature/head, that was found FOLDED UP, as that creation man/old heaven/head that WAS, as no more.

I think the message there was if we die to self, so too will our old man nature/head be folded up like a napkin, awaiting the return of the glorified man. Just a stray thought.....Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sparrow

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2009, 02:40:16 AM »
I don't know if this helps anything or makes it worse; but, He said, "Behold! I make all things new," not, I am making all new things.

Maybe Tony knows; but, I can't certify which is actually meant or not.

"And He Who is sitting on the throne said, 'Lo! New am I making all!'" (Rv 21:5, CLV)

In that He'll eventually collapse the entire cosmos, folding it up for a keepsake ("memorial") I suppose He will create new worlds.  It seems first, however, for now, "...if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive [old] passed by. Lo! there has come new!  Yet all is of God..." (2 Co 5:17-18, CLV)

That is what has been in my heart... and I really love the way you worded that!

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2009, 04:49:01 AM »
1.) Some of the old rabbis taught the world would be returned to the state it was in when we were in the garden of Eden, only cleansed of sin and evil.

2.) Others believed it would be returned to the original chaos and then recreated.

3.) Some others taught the complete destruction of the entire world with totally new heavens and earth.

It seems to me that all three may be envisioned in Scripture.  #1 has begun within us in the regeneration of the Holy Ghost.  This will eventually result in this world being filled with the Glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea, something we can, at least at times, step into now.  #2 is very little taught, but Zephaniah 1:2-3 and Isaiah 24:1,3 indicate it.  #3 is suggested in Hebrews 1:10-12 from Psalm 102: 25-27 and Isaiah 24:19-20.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2009, 08:27:04 AM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

iD,

Humans eat for survival + for fun/taste.
Jesus only eats for fun/taste.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline chuckt

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2009, 01:36:14 PM »
Hey ID,

   We will eat in the heavenlies...our body will totally absorb

   what food we eat and there will be no discharge of waste.

 

Sheila, why did you write the above when the Scriptures states this:

1Co 6:13 Foods for the bowels and the bowels for foods, yet God will be discarding these as well as those. Now the body is not for prostitution, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body."



the food FOR the bowels and bowels FOR food  will be disgarded dosent mean heavenly food will be disgarded.

while i agree we ""might"" not eat, it sure would be a disappointment not to.

there certianly wont be ""food laws""

aint worried though.

peace
chuckt

Yo, chuckt, what up?
I believe that verse is telling me that when our bodies are changed from corruptible to incorruptible that God will be discarding our bowels. Since He will be discarding our bowels He will be discarding food as well since there will be no bowels to draw nourishment from the foods there will be no need for the foods. We, rather, will be dwelling in light and our bodies will be receiving all the life giving force from Him Who is light.
You dig, man? :laughing7:
You hip to the heavenly trip?


good morning Tony.

thats sorta my point, any eating will not be for nourishment. if there is indeed eating.

do you think Jesus need to go to the boys room before the ascention?

its no big deal to me.

God bless
chuckt



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Offline Nathan

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2009, 03:31:35 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

iD,

Humans eat for survival + for fun/taste.
Jesus only eats for fun/taste.

I think there's more to the eating thing than just pleasure.  I see it as relationship also.  The church has taken the act of communion and pretty much stripped it down to where it's just a ritual with a swallow of grape juice and  a cracker.  But if we read the entire context of 1 Corinthians 11, we'll see that it wasn't about the cracker and grape juice only, but that it was including an entire meal.  There's more to life than just going through the motions of sacrifice . . .there are also insturctions to "eat" portions of what's been sacrificed. . .there are drink offerings as well.

The eating and drinking with one another for me, is just as important as the cracker and the cup.  There is much to be said for one to use one's hands to create a meal for another to eat of.  Revelation of who Chirst was came when he sat down to eat with the two disciples.  Abraham prepared a meal for the angels that approached him as they discussed the salvation of Sodom and Gomorah . . .the examples are all through Scripture of the importance of a meal being prepared for the guest.  It's all stemming from the connection of honoring one another and relationship.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2009, 03:49:58 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline chuckt

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2009, 04:26:13 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

you might have to eat those words one day  :laughhand:
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Offline reFORMer

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2009, 06:19:28 PM »
It isn't going to be Jesus with one kind of body and ourselves with another.  Scripture speaks of:  "...the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. (Php 3:20-21, CLV)  There will be differences in degrees of glory, "...for star is excelling star in glory.  Thus also is the resurrection of the dead.(1 Cor 15:41-42, CLV)  There's nothing in Scripture promising an earthly reward to people who are racially "Jewish" and a heavenly reward to those who are racially "Gentiles."  Not only is there no such thing as a "Jewish" race, having intermarried from earliest times, "Judaism" is and always was a religion.  God never was a racist.  That, "The flesh profits nothing" is not anything new.  "Not all are Israel that are of Israel."  "...those of faith, these are sons of Abraham." (Ga 3:7, CLV)  We gentiles goyim or,nations, are grafted into the same tree and are now true "Jews."

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, AV)

"For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision; but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, CLV)

Also...

Romans 4:13,and 16 (CLV)...
13 For not through law is the promise to Abraham, or to his Seed, for him to be enjoyer of the allotment of the world, but through faith's righteousness.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all...

Romans 4:13,and 16 (AV)...
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all...
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 06:36:34 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2009, 08:26:47 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
It isn't going to be Jesus with one kind of body and ourselves with another.  Scripture speaks of:  "...the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. (Php 3:20-21, CLV)  There will be differences in degrees of glory, "...for star is excelling star in glory.  Thus also is the resurrection of the dead.(1 Cor 15:41-42, CLV)  There's nothing in Scripture promising an earthly reward to people who are racially "Jewish" and a heavenly reward to those who are racially "Gentiles."  Not only is there no such thing as a "Jewish" race, having intermarried from earliest times, "Judaism" is and always was a religion.  God never was a racist.  That, "The flesh profits nothing" is not anything new.  "Not all are Israel that are of Israel."  "...those of faith, these are sons of Abraham." (Ga 3:7, CLV)  We gentiles goyim or,nations, are grafted into the same tree and are now true "Jews."

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, AV)

"For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision; but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God." (Rm 2:28-29, CLV)

Also...

Romans 4:13,and 16 (CLV)...
13 For not through law is the promise to Abraham, or to his Seed, for him to be enjoyer of the allotment of the world, but through faith's righteousness.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all...

Romans 4:13,and 16 (AV)...
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all...

And yet for us of the nations He will be discarding the food as well as the bowels of our new bodies.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2009, 08:34:44 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food just for the heck of it?

cp

That would be like wanting to go back to the fleshpots of Egypt once emancipated from bondage.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2009, 08:34:53 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22


Offline Tony N

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2009, 09:21:58 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2009, 09:48:22 PM »
Tony, being you're one the most literal Brothers I have and you only adhere to what is in the Bible as best you can, may I ask you where in the Bible it says we are to take the 66 books we call the Bible as infallible and the Word of God?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2009, 09:54:48 PM »
Tony, if we will never eat food, how come Jesus eat and ate food after his death?

Because God did not discard His bowels like God is going to discard our bowels.
Jesus is going to eat and drink in the kingdom to come.

God is adapting our (those believers of the nations) bodies to be in harmony with the new creation in which food will be unnecessary. Out among the vast starry reaches of space we won't need food.

But what if we want food ust for the heck of it?

cp


 29And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 30That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


--Luke 22

Yes, Molly, that is right for THEM.  We of the nations will not be on the earth eating and drinking at His table in His kingdom nor will be be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

We of the nations will be among the celestials while they are on the earth.
I don't know about you, but I'm not leaving.  I love this place! :laughing7:


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2009, 09:58:56 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline claypot

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2009, 10:20:23 PM »
:cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....

Card, does that mean I can have a steak, medium rare, really thick, with Jesus on 'the other side'?

Please say yes!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2009, 10:21:25 PM »
 :cloud9: Jesus ate after He was glorified........that's all I know  :dontknow:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2009, 10:25:04 PM »
Drink all the beer you want without getting drunk???  Not sure if it's worth drinking then, eh? :laughing7:

Offline Molly

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Re: A very tough questions.
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2009, 10:25:56 PM »
:cloud9: Amen, Molly, I hope I'm not, either. As it was in the days of Noah.....in Noah's day only the wicked left the earth; the righteous were raised up above the waters of judgment of the flesh. Blessings....

Card, does that mean I can have a steak, medium rare, really thick, with Jesus on 'the other side'?

Please say yes!

cp

You can do it right now.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.