Thought I would post these, from a ET forum, these are my replies, thought I would share here by copying and pasteing
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:24 am Post subject:
They have willingly made themselves the enemies of Christ, therefore making themselves our enemies too. Yes, we are limited to seeing things in the only way we know right now, but our beings will be so much more like Him in Glory. If He sees people who reject Him as enemies, then so will we. ( my opinion )
Above quote from perhaps2day
Hello perhaps2day, yes, this was the paradox that I was addressing, that people willingly choose to be enemies of God, this also makes them our enemies.
The paradox is he told us to love them, can we not think that he will love them too and not torment them for a quadrillion million billion years times forever?
And since most christians would agree that Satan and his demons has some power to deceive people and to set peoples minds in certain ways, is it not possible that God is able to issue one command with his voice and no man or woman would be evil but rather transformed. And not only transformed but they would also have much depth. Is this not the transformation that was promised to all men?
1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
It seems that the part "For as in Adam all die" is interpreted by doctine to actually mean literally "all" but the "so in Christ shall all be made alive" is interpreted in doctine to actually not include all but only those who believe. Is this a translation error or a doctrine error? If you don't believe in Adam does that mean you are not under Adam's judgement and death? I would say no, that whether you believe in Adam or not you are most certainly feeling his judgement. I would also say that all will be Christ's, God is able to make each man and woman accept their salvation thru Christ, and has not chosen to do so at the same time, but will, each in their own order. He is God, his will is to save us, and his will WILL be done.
If every man born after Adam was in judgement to know good and evil because of Adams sin (remember if Adam wouldn't have sinned we wouldn't be in this pickle), then didn't God also think it just to save all men through one man, though each in their own order, but all in the last day? Will not God reveal Christ to every man (each in their own order). Remember some people like the apostle Paul actually have to have him appear personally and supernaturally to believe.
This is why this is so interesting to me, I want to know God, (my loving father), and not doctrine which sometimes seems make my father out to be some monster. I myself, being evil, would not torment someone for eternity, and my father is good. (though he does correct and punish us) I think that eternal torment is like locking you kid up in the basement till he dies, and telling him, you had plenty of warnings. Are we not children and not yet fully developed?
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:18 am Post subject:
And might we not see those who have rejected serving the Lord in an entirely different light from that entertained on earth"even though we were connected to them closely in the flesh?
above quote from prays4u
is it not possible that those who have rejected serving the Lord will also see an entirely different light from that they entertained on earth once they see their loving father and realize they were wrong about everything?
we are currently in an "evil" state
a human lifetime, lets say 100 years, is a very short period of time for someone who is blind to see (as compared to their eternal torment), unless God chooses to give them sight here, remembering of course in this "evil" state it is very hard to make decisions affecting next month, much less can a blind person make a competent decision affecting forever. And lets not forget to add on top of this decision that Satan and his minions are constantly working hard to make sure they make the wrong decision. And lets not forget that we are also children, and children also make the wrong decision because they do not see anything and are "blind" to everything exept what they want right now.
Lets remember that God has hardened the hearts of many for his purposes, he even hardened Pauls for awhile.
Their are many scriptures that can be used as an argument for these things, but let us not forget the scriptures that support them as well. And that said I choose to find the light and love of God. I am well aware that if someone looks for the darkness in the bible that that is what they will find, darkness. Afterall the bible is called the sword of God and God did say that it would be used to judge the peoples, those who look for a loving God will find him, and also those who find a God that does not seem very loving at all will most certainly find him. And both will find him in the Bible.
One thing I do feel, it would be a great defeat for Satan if everyone found the loving god, who indeed loves all men and women, and will save all of them in due time.
Here I talk about beliefs that truly would get me kicked out of many churches just like Jesus said I would. I assure you that you will not be kicked out of any church for talking about people being tormented for eternity, kinda ironic isn't it?
These are the things I am seeking the awnsers to: Are we being lied to? Are those who teach us being lied to? Am I wrong? Do I just not understand? Am I right? Why can't this be discussed in church? Why is the idea that all of man will be saved met with gnashing teeth in many places when it is such a loving belief that can be at least argued with scripture just like many other christian beliefs are argued about when scripture seems to justify one position or the other?