Author Topic: A question  (Read 4076 times)

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Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2010, 06:21:30 PM »
Lee....... If you love Jesus you will take His Commandments into consideration rather than create your own image of God.

One of His commandments to you is to live by every word that comes from God and not just those that sound like something you can live with.

God does not change and what God said is sin is still sin !!!....... the ethnicity of person does not matter as the law given to the Jews also applied to others who wanted the blessings that God made available to the Jews......... suggest you keep that in mind !!

Any transgression of His law is sin and He did not give different laws to one person than he did the next other than the closer you draw to Him the more that is required of you (such as priests were given laws that the rest of the jews were not)

When that preacher had sex with that male prostitute that was a work of sin that came through the desires of his flesh under the influence of Satan and no one else...... There is no sin in Jesus ........ never was and never will be....... he does not tempt with sin nor does He ever make anyone commit  a sin.......... Saying that Christ made some male body have sex with another male body is not just bordering on blasphemy against all the Holy Spirt teaches and I strongly suggest you consider who is the origin of that thought given unto you.

God never causes anyone to sin.......... only Satan causes a person to sin and if you do not accept the existence of Satan then who or what name do you blame any of your own sins on?

And you really need to get all that garbage out of you about no such thing as sin........... that is totally contrary to God "s Word and BTW do you not give God any credit ????.......... Do you really think that God would allow the most common printed account of Him available to His creation aka the Holy Bible to be filled with lies?

Now I need to scoot

Blessings

Doug
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:55:11 PM by Livelystone »

Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2010, 06:53:52 PM »
Lets not confuse the redemptive work of Jesus with the so called claimed ability of anyone person's claim to be able to deliver people of demons...... after all one of the two specific ministries that Jesus says that He will have nothing to do with individuals practicing it are those claiming to to do the works of apostles because they have cast out devils in His Name

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


I have seen permanent miracles (for as long as the person receiving the miracle lived) from when God has told someone to go lay hands on someone but whenever I see people doing it on their own at best I see is something temporary......and that Dear Saints of the Kingdom is speaking kindly.

Those who go about thinking they cast out devils IMO usually end up taking them on themselves and I have seen some otherwise good people with good intentions fall from from walking in accordance with the Lord simply because they went where they were not given the level of anointing needed to minister where THEY chose to minister.

Then the bottom line is that a demon cast out is just going to go somewhere else........ IMO far better to strengthen the individual with the truth so that the seed that is Christ in them grows into a fruit baring tree consequently making all demons that live in their flesh to be of no effect!!!! ......... and one thing you can take to the bank......... if one has ever participated in sin there are demons within their flesh and they are there from waaaaaaay back from when God cursed the serpent in Genesis.

Satan even said to Jesus that the kingdoms of man were given to him and they were given to him by God. Those kingdoms are spiritual kingdoms are the spirit and soul of man (Adam & Eve) that resides in the flesh (body) of a man.......... so who is any man to think that he can separate what God has put together??????

Walk into most groups of Christians prophesying and laying hands and casting out devils and you have found one of Satan's training centers for how to keep Christians from coming into the fullness of their inheritance.   :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Satan is a spirit and has lived in the flesh of every man ever since Adam got the boot from the garden....... That is how he has taken over and runs the world through gaining control of the spirit and soul of man. Until Christians start to learn how to trample him down there is no hope for the world and all these ministries claiming this and that and a lot of other #$$%^&* are not helping things one bit. In fact they are the source of the problem and are just one more "synagogue of satan" that Jesus condemns in Revelations!!!!


 :cloud9: Sorry Doug, but while I agree you MUST be lead of the Lord to deal with this aspect of our walk (and He anoints and equips you to do what He calls you to do), you have not understood that He was NOT talking against anyone doing it in Mathew 7, but rather "condemning" those who try it without having RELATIONSHIP with Him, ie. knowing Him as a man knows his wife, one with Christ.

The 7 sons of Sceva had this problem when they went to cast out a demon using His name superstitiously like a magic chant, without having the relationship and covering to back up their mere words. The demonized man beat the living life out of them and sent them running.

Acts 19:13  Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you  by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.  14  And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.   15  And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?   16  And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

So actually just the opposite is true, as He also said here in Mark after giving them the commission to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Note that these "signs" follow them that believe that preach the gospel, and that the Lord Himself worked with them, confirming the Word with these signs following.

Mark 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth  and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned .  17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.  19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.   20  And they went forth, and preached every where,the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.

:cloud9: Also notice here the message for Herod. A day is like a thousand years, and so today and tomorrow are 2000 years, the days of the realm of Pentecost, He is casting out devils with those that believe.

I might also add that, in principle, He "sneakily" had the same thing being repeated by the church for 2000 years by the reciting of the Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done", IN EARTH, as it is in heaven; what was His will in heaven? To kick Satan and his minions out. The same then is His will IN our "earth" (Adam was taken from the dust of the earth). Blessings..

Luke 13:32 KJV And he said unto them, Go ye , and tell that fox, Behold , I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected .

 

Card ....... only Apostles and Jesus are for real casting out demons........... As I said do not confuse the works of the Lord with those of sinful man. On the other hand I do believe that is a coming ministry but I have yet to see it on earth. When it starts to happen the whole world will know of it because it will be so obvious

When you can show me someone who has been delivered of sin meaning that they walk just as Jesus does I will accept what you are saying

Just one little itty bitty person in the whole wide world........ is that fair enough?

BTW what you are being shown when those people that were trying to cast out demons but were overcome by them is exactly what I am saying....... that they were not sent by God to do that and neither are those who think otherwise today.

The last two preachers of the four preachers I know personally that claimed to of cast out demons are both dead. The one I told Him if he was to go and do where he said he would that he would die there at the hands of a witch-doctor because he was going and doing what the Lord did not want him to do and that is exactly what happened......... the third one I have followed behind him rebuking Satan in one those that he claimed to have set free and my rebuke instantly set them free of a seizure but the demon is still there in them today !!! ......... the last preacher as far I know is still doing the works of Satan AND all four of these preachers have been or are present members of the UR online ministry world  :sigh:

Now until you can show me the the proof of one single satan/sin free person the subject is closed with me........ PERIOD

Blessings

Doug

« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 11:59:38 PM by Livelystone »

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: A question
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2010, 07:10:49 PM »
Okay Doug, the Law says I can rape a child and pay the father 340 U.S. Dollars and that child is my wife for ever( any child that started her period, and is not engaged to another person any age...), but that is a Law that cant be enforced in the U.S.A. no seperation of Church and State,

Deu 22:28  If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29  Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

The Law of God is Sick.... and not for believers today, that Law is over....

Lee Damboise II

Offline Cardinal

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Re: A question
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2010, 07:12:13 PM »
 :cloud9: I may not be understanding you right on this Doug, so if I am excuse me for asking, but are you confusing deliverance with the "casting out of Satan himself thus making one perfect", by your beliefs on this?

Deliverance is not casting out Satan, but more like casting out his "offspring" or fruit of him that were formed from the union of him with the soul of men, such as lust, hate, greed, bitterness, jealousy, ect.

And as I said before the LORD instructs as to what is there, and IF it is to be removed at that point in time. Discernment MUST bow the knee to His perfect will, else the last state of that person is worse than before. Just because something is discerned, does NOT mean He wants it removed at that moment in time, because they may not be strong enough in Him to withstand the onslaught of the enemy trying to get back in.

As an example of this and how I learned the principle, once I was praying for an elder in a church. It was about an hour of the Lord pinpointing things to remove, and included an instantaneous healing of the man in one area.

When I got to the end, the Lord showed me a spirit of nicotine in the man's lungs (sorry smokers). Now I personally did not know the man, had no idea if he smoked or not. But just as I was going to open my mouth to command it out, the Lord spoke, "NO!" I was startled, because up to that point He had never shown me anything He DIDN'T want removed in the next 15 seconds.

So I asked Him why??? He said, "Tell him I have delivered him of this twice already, and twice he has taken it back. Tell him this time, he'll have to pray and fast to be delivered of it." (Being shown something like this is the gift of word of knowledge, for those of you who have never seen it in operation).

So I told the man, and he said that was true, adding, "Did He tell you how long I have to fast?"

So the point is, it's a PROCESS that continues until the 3rd day of perfection, as He said to Herod. We decrease, so that He can increase in us. Blessings....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:17:58 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2010, 07:19:31 PM »
:cloud9: I may not be understanding you right on this Doug, so if I am excuse me for asking, but are you confusing deliverance with the "casting out of Satan himself thus making one perfect", by your beliefs on this?

Deliverance is not casting out Satan, but more like casting out his "offspring" or fruit of him that were formed from the union of him with the soul of men, such as lust, hate, greed, bitterness, jealousy, ect.

And as I said before the LORD instructs as to what is there, and IF it is to be removed at that point in time. Discernment MUST bow the knee to His perfect will, else the last state of that person is worse than before. Just because something is discerned, does NOT mean He wants it removed at that moment in time, because they may not be strong enough in Him to withstand the onslaught of the enemy trying to get back in.

As an example of this and how I learned the principle, once I was praying for an elder in a church. It was about an hour of the Lord pinpointing things to remove, and included an instantaneous healing of the man in one area.

When I got to the end, the Lord showed me a spirit of nicotine in the man's lungs (sorry smokers). Now I personally did not know the man, had no idea if he smoked or not. But just as I was going to open my mouth to command it out, the Lord spoke, "NO!" I was startled, because up to that point He had never shown me anything He DIDN'T want removed in the next 15 seconds.

So I asked Him why??? He said, "Tell him I have delivered him of this twice already, and twice he has taken it back. Tell him this time, he'll have to pray and fast to be delivered of it." (Being shown something like this is the gift of word of knowledge, for those of you who have never seen it in operation).

So I told the man, and he said that was true, adding, "Did He tell you how long I have to fast?"

So the point is, it's a PROCESS that continues until the 3rd day of perfection, as He said to Herod. We decrease, so that He can increase in us. Blessings....

Well remind me to wear a lead suit when we meet  :mblush:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: A question
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2010, 07:20:12 PM »
 :cloud9: ROFLOL...... :girlheart:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2010, 07:24:13 PM »
Okay Doug, the Law says I can rape a child and pay the father 340 U.S. Dollars and that child is my wife for ever( any child that started her period, and is not engaged to another person any age...), but that is a Law that cant be enforced in the U.S.A. no seperation of Church and State,

Deu 22:28  If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29  Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

The Law of God is Sick.... and not for believers today, that Law is over....

Lee Damboise II


No your understanding is off........ God was not advocating it........ God was just not allowing men just to go around and take a woman as they pleased....... if he took her he had her for keeps and IMO that just might turn out to be a fate worse than death  :winkgrin:

Blessings

Doug


HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: A question
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2010, 08:50:56 PM »
it still dose not minimise the fact that any man can have any child when ever he wants. My mother started her peroid at 8....

you can't say that was right with God even 6000 years ago or when ever, of course if it was ok then , God never changes, so it is God inspired today..IF

Offline onlytruth

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Re: A question
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2010, 09:14:42 PM »
Hi Doug...if I'm not moving forward gaining understanding, when then is God going to zap me so I am perfect in every way!!Even Jesus grew in wisdom and stature.
Don't attribute everything to Satan,he gets enough glory already
blessings as we grow in the anointing :icon_king:

Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2010, 09:44:05 PM »
it still dose not minimise the fact that any man can have any child when ever he wants. My mother started her peroid at 8....

you can't say that was right with God even 6000 years ago or when ever, of course if it was ok then , God never changes, so it is God inspired today..IF

You are missing the whole thing Lee......... by at least a mile and a half


Remember back in HS when you were trying get your girlfriend to take her clothes off......... well if you got lucky with her but unfortunately somehow got caught and the girl was no longer a virgin........

Well in that case...............This is the law that got a lot of guys invited to a wedding by a pee off'd dad of the former virgin who was holding a shotgun just in case the guy chickened out and did not mary her.......... then by God's law he could whack the sucker and I am not just talking about a bobbit trim job either if you get my message.

Now read it again but now with being set free from the lie that you were taught !!!!!!!!!


Deu 22:28  If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; [/size]
Deu 22:29  Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.  


Now who told you that lie Lee ?......... did somebody teach you that or more likely maybe some voice in the back of your mind said ..........

"See Lee, God' Laws are terrible but you can be better than that.

Now three guess's Lee whose voice that was........... hint:::::::: the name starts with an S

Blessings

Doug
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:02:24 AM by Livelystone »

Livelystone

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Re: A question
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2010, 10:10:43 PM »
Hi Doug...if I'm not moving forward gaining understanding, when then is God going to zap me so I am perfect in every way!!Even Jesus grew in wisdom and stature.
Don't attribute everything to Satan,he gets enough glory already
blessings as we grow in the anointing :icon_king:

Hmmmm

Of course we are growing and going forward and what ever words of mine that might have caused you to think that I did not feel that way, I will just say that I am sorry for them if that will work..............

However if you have read much of what I have posted I quite often refer to the law of the seed that is Christ in us that is to be nourished into a full grown fruit baring tree........ and that means you, me, and everyone else here baptized by the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus

The only point I have intended to make with you is the foolishness associated with deliverance ministries........ at least with every one of them that I have seen.......

Hope that clears up any misunderstandings

Blessings

Doug

PS. Amen on Satan getting enough glory already........... PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS MERCYS ARE AWESOME


Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: A question
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2010, 08:02:36 PM »
:cloud9: I may not be understanding you right on this Doug, so if I am excuse me for asking, but are you confusing deliverance with the "casting out of Satan himself thus making one perfect", by your beliefs on this?

Deliverance is not casting out Satan, but more like casting out his "offspring" or fruit of him that were formed from the union of him with the soul of men, such as lust, hate, greed, bitterness, jealousy, ect.

And as I said before the LORD instructs as to what is there, and IF it is to be removed at that point in time. Discernment MUST bow the knee to His perfect will, else the last state of that person is worse than before. Just because something is discerned, does NOT mean He wants it removed at that moment in time, because they may not be strong enough in Him to withstand the onslaught of the enemy trying to get back in.

As an example of this and how I learned the principle, once I was praying for an elder in a church. It was about an hour of the Lord pinpointing things to remove, and included an instantaneous healing of the man in one area.

When I got to the end, the Lord showed me a spirit of nicotine in the man's lungs (sorry smokers). Now I personally did not know the man, had no idea if he smoked or not. But just as I was going to open my mouth to command it out, the Lord spoke, "NO!" I was startled, because up to that point He had never shown me anything He DIDN'T want removed in the next 15 seconds.

So I asked Him why??? He said, "Tell him I have delivered him of this twice already, and twice he has taken it back. Tell him this time, he'll have to pray and fast to be delivered of it." (Being shown something like this is the gift of word of knowledge, for those of you who have never seen it in operation).

So I told the man, and he said that was true, adding, "Did He tell you how long I have to fast?"

So the point is, it's a PROCESS that continues until the 3rd day of perfection, as He said to Herod. We decrease, so that He can increase in us. Blessings....

God will allow someone else that is strong in the Lord to pray for you
concerning things like "smoking" for a time or two, but I sure bear
witness with Cardinal here concerning the man that wanted "her" to
do it, AGAIN.

Grow up! the Lord wants the Man to do it himself. 

This is exactly "how" the enemy comes to "wear out the saints of
the Most High."  Always looks for those committed Christians to
"do it for him."

People, please consider, the Strong NEED you too, please don't wear
them out!!!

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A question
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2010, 09:23:05 PM »
Okay Doug, the Law says I can rape a child and pay the father 340 U.S. Dollars and that child is my wife for ever( any child that started her period, and is not engaged to another person any age...), but that is a Law that cant be enforced in the U.S.A. no seperation of Church and State,

Deu 22:28  If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Deu 22:29  Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

The Law of God is Sick.... and not for believers today, that Law is over....

Lee Damboise II

As was pointed out by livelystone (Doug,) God isn't advocating a male doing this; rather, it is the penalty for doing it.  If he can't afford the redemption price it will be raised by his being sold into servitude.  That will limit his activity greatly.  If he caused her pain or damaged her other laws cover the appropriate punishments.  Even today the victims of crimes are not repaid by the perpetrator 4 or 7 fold as it was with theft.

What is also to be taken into consideration is this is but one piece of a whole system for a nation that has no jails.  It also has no regular police force or standing army.  The Levites who stand watch in the temple are the closest thing to such.  If a crime is committed it is the relatives within a more tribal society, them and the neighbors who enforce the sanctions of the law.

If parents and the priests don't teach the law, then the people's value's change and the intention of God's law can't be met.  This is what has in some ways happened to most of us.  We tend to judge God's law-word by what values we acquired in a post-Christian and pagan culture.  Some meditation on what is written rather than snap judgments against it would prove very rewarding.  One thing you partially recognized is a much earlier age for marriage than is common in today's western world.  The new way here is fornication for a number of years, settling in together without marriage that may come later, and, instead of keeping several wives, they are taken in succession after destructive divorces.  Dt 22:28-29 also sees rape differently than what has developed in our laws and their application in fairly recent history, particularly the last 50 or so years, that consider it more a matter of violence than sexuality.

It should be brought out that these laws of Moses are in the context of the Code of Hamarabi which was already in force among the nations of 3 to 4 thousand years ago.  The Mosaic laws were also bare bones upon which was build up a history of case law with commentary from Judicial decisions by Priests and the elders in the gates.  In Jesus day traditions were already making the law of God of no effect.  He warned about the teachings of the rabbis which since those days have produced another Judaism than that Jesus reformed to be in accord again with the original law.  As He pointed out, those who would be Moses' disciples would accept and believe in Him.   Those who are children of Abraham are of the faith of Abraham when he was as yet uncircumcised.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 09:33:15 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!