Author Topic: A question on eternal life  (Read 1073 times)

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junkbunny

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A question on eternal life
« on: December 20, 2009, 01:24:31 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 11:02:54 PM by junkbunny »

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 03:14:32 PM »
Greetings junkbunny :)

A couple of ways you could look at it :

1. I believe it is not speaking of time at all, but is connecting it as an adjective to the age it is referring to. In other words, it is basically speaking of having either punishment that is pertaining to the age, or life that is pertaining to the age. That age is referring to the Messianic age, the one they were looking for. Because it is not speaking of time, there are other terms that describe our condition, such as putting on immortality. The punishment that is pertaining to the age is nowhere said to never end. It, being corrective in nature, accomplishes its purpose, and thus, is no longer needed.

2. Some believe it is referring to a length of time, described as age-abiding, or age-lasting. In this case, again, the life or punishment is only being described as lasting as long as that age. In this case, the belief is that that age will end, and when it does, that punishment will as well...however, again, the life a person has must continue on because we must put on immortality. The life we have after that age will not be age-abiding life, but simply life outside of the ages, for the ages will end.

Ron


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 04:22:18 PM »
Hi JB,

Are you refering to this verse?

KJVMatthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
YLTMatthew 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

After reading the verse you have learned several facts.
There will be life. There will be punishment. There will be wicked. There will be righteous.
But it tells us nothing about for example the nature of the punishment or the duration of it.

Ron already mentioned 2 views; I'll give you a link to a third view.
The ages don't have the same duration
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Jerm

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 10:32:40 PM »
Hey junkbunny.  I'm kind of agree with gregoryfl on this one.  From the way I understand it, the Greek word aionios, which is often translated as eternal or everlasting, is more properly translated as age-lasting, age-during, etc.  Simply put, it means lasting for a period of time.  How long?  Depends on what you are talking about.  This true for any kind of adjective.  For example, I am 6 feet tall, weigh 300 pounds, and wear a XXL shirt.  Probably safe to describe me as "big" right?  You could also probably describe the Statue of Liberty as big too, right?  Does that mean that the Statue of Liberty is 6ft tall, 300 pounds, and could fit into XXL shirt?  No, of course not!  The context of what you are talking about will determine the dimensions of the adjective you are using.  Another good example of this is found in Scripture.  God is described as great in several places in Scripture.  In another place, Jesus describes John the Baptist as great.  Does this mean that God and John the Baptist are equal because the same word was used for each of them?  Again, this isn't the case.  So what does this mean for aionion life and aionion punishment?  Again, you have to look at the context of what you are looking at.  I agree with gregoryfl that aionion life refers to the life that occurs during the Messianic Age, you might have heard it referred to as Life in the Age to Come.  Jesus says that this life is characterized as an intimate relationship with God (This is eternal (age-lasting) life, that you know God)  You could kind of compare this to whenever someone talks about what life was like during "the good old day" or something like that.  What this life that Jesus is promising is life that is characterized by an intimate relationship with God and is manifested during the Messianic Age.  Yes, this age will eventually come to an end but the life that characterizes it will not because of the inherent nature of that life.  So what about the punishment.  Again, you have to look at context.  If life is characterized by an intimate relationship with God, then the punishment could be described as being cut off from God, as not being able to participate in the Messianic Kingdom.  So how long does this separation take place?  If it is true that God is love and that His punishments are corrective and redemptive in nature, then it is logical to assume that this punishment will eventually come to an end and all will be reconciled back to God, just as the Scripture say.  I hope this helps you out a bit.  And don't ever worried about asking anything, that's what we're here for  :happygrin:

junkbunny

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 12:52:04 AM »
Thankyou gregoryfl, WhiteWings and Jerm for your comments.  I guess what I was referring to in my original question was not about "aionios punishment" but "aionios life" and if that meant we will be with God for a certain amount of time but after that die.  I agree with what you all have said and it has helped me think things through.  I've also been reading the pages at mercifultruth.com (I think someone on this board runs that site, but I can't remember who) which has helped immensely. 

Just to make sure I have it right:  we will have aionios-life with Jesus for an indefinite amount of time (ages), but after those ages end our life will still continue on.  As will the lives of those who have been through aionios "punishment" (redemption/correction).  Is this correct?

friendofmankind

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 01:06:02 AM »
Eternal, (age abiding) life is not a length of time, it's a quality of life.

John 17:3 >>
Now this is age-abiding (eternal) life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
 
Eternal life is Knowing God.  God is eternal so he is the begining and the end.
The Bible speaks of 'ages' that will end, and God will be 'all in all'.  So everyone will live forever with God.

Thats the way i read it.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 11:43:52 AM »
Just to make sure I have it right:  we will have aionios-life with Jesus for an indefinite amount of time (ages), but after those ages end our life will still continue on.  As will the lives of those who have been through aionios "punishment" (redemption/correction).  Is this correct?
There are only 7 ages. They link to 7 days of the week. 7 feasts of the year. Seven arms of the menorah, 7 metals. So "indefinite" is max 7 ages.

I know your question is about life and not punishment; but I think they can't be seen seperate.
For easy explanation assume the age lasts 12 months. Most people are at least part of that time in LoF. Say 6 months. Then for some the age lasts 12 months and for others 6 months.
So the length of the age is fixed for everyone. But not where you spend (a part of) that age.
The big question is how long the spanking lasts  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sven

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Re: A question on eternal life
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 01:33:25 PM »
if we translate aiónios with perpetual, which I think is actually a possible meaning, we might get this translation:

"these go away to perpetual chastening (corrective punishment, Greek kolasis) and these go away to perpetual life"

English is not my mothertonque and I understand perpetual not to mean "endless", though it might have this meaning in several situations, but only because of the context, not according to the word's inherent meaning and its usual useage.

I think there is no reason to understand "perpetual chastening" as endless punishment while "perpetual life" given as gift from God might be understood as neverending life, though both is called "perpetual" it endures for different lenghts.

This is a possible interpretation I think