Author Topic: A Question for Everyone  (Read 3390 times)

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Sage

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A Question for Everyone
« on: June 20, 2009, 10:47:34 PM »
Please do not take this as I am trying to be a trolling atheist, for I believe the same as all of you. I'm just looking for a little guidance.

Why do you believe in Christianity?

Let's say the bible disappeared tomorrow, why would you keep believing the way you do? I've been doing a lot of reading in mythology (one of my favorite topics to read about). But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity. Hell, heaven, messiahs, God, all that stuff. Yet, when we read about mythology, we automatically say: "Ya that stuff's not real." Yet then we go back to church and do the same stuff everyone else was doing for their "Gods."

Help me out.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 10:53:25 PM »
Draw close to God and He will draw close to you.
He is as real to me as any thing I can see with my eyes.
Faith, that wonderful thing, is alive with Spirit.

Offline dboutwell

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2009, 10:56:49 PM »
Hi Sage,

Quote
But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity

Maybe that is because the "God thing" (now Christianity) is the original and all the other myths are created trying by those trying to arrive at the truth????  I know that there are "thoughts"..myths..religions, older than Christianity, but, none of them are older than God.

Debbie :)

Why do I believe in Christianity? Probably cause that's what I was born into. But, now, it is proving to be very reliable and oh so true.
Blessings :)

Debbie

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2009, 11:25:38 PM »
Some myths are created from the lost, corrupted or perverted truth.
Others, from observation of the natural.
Depends on what part of the world.
There are wisps of glory in them all.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2009, 11:41:23 PM »
But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity.

Yes. But why? Just coincidence? (think not) What what first?
OT seems to predate everything that has a similar story.


http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/03chap07/default.htm
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sven

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2009, 11:45:47 PM »
I wonder about Zarathustrism, interesting religion, the 3 magis are said to have been Zarathustrists, some say Zarathustra foretold a messiah, there might a connection between the prophet Daniel and Zarathustra, but I don't know sure facts.

I think the Catholic church borrowed much from the pagans, other religions might have borrowed from the bible, Islam e.g.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2009, 11:47:01 PM »
I wonder about Zarathustrism, interesting religion, the 3 magis are said to have been Zarathustrists, some say Zarathustra foretold a messiah, there might a connection between the prophet Daniel and Zarathustra, but I don't know sure facts.

I think the Catholic church borrowed much from the pagans, other religions might have borrowed from the bible, Islam e.g.

Zoaraster was a student of Daniel.

Quote
Zoraster "was a student of Daniel when he was in Babylon."
"He learned from Daniel that a star would appear in the
constellation of COMA when that one whom it was foretold
would be born."
http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterSix/TheStarOfBethlehem.htm
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 11:55:22 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Sage

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2009, 11:49:20 PM »
But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity.

Yes. But why? Just coincidence? (think not) What what first?
OT seems to predate everything that has a similar story.


http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/03chap07/default.htm

I'm saying most religions have books, stories, and all of that stuff. But why do we believe this one? For all we know the bible could be another story book. There are older religions, with older books. I'm just looking for some things people have discovered for themselves, but not from reading the bible.

Let me make it known again, I'm not trying to start an argument. I really am just confused/lost whatever you want to call it.

Offline sven

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2009, 11:53:49 PM »
Quote
Zoaraster was a student of Daniel

actually? I have often heard now that Zarathustra was a universalist, interesting if both were true...

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/how_hell_became_eternal_vincent.htm

Zoroaster was a Universalist, as he says in his Hymns to God , "If you understand these laws of happiness and pain which God has ordained, O Mortals, there is a long period of punishment for the wicked and reward for the pious, but thereafter Eternal Joy shall rein forever " (Y 30:11 emphasis added).

might reming one on Daniel 12:2 (if you interpret contempt refering to conscious punishment)

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2009, 12:03:03 AM »
I'm saying most religions have books, stories, and all of that stuff. But why do we believe this one? For all we know the bible could be another story book. There are older religions, with older books. I'm just looking for some things people have discovered for themselves, but not from reading the bible.
I know what said/asked that.
I think your questions has two answers. Or should I say two half answers.

The first half of the answer is that the oldest religion is probebly the source. So most likely the real one.
The second half of the answer "yes it could another story book"
Why it isn't a story book is hard to explain. It called believe
I think there are many different reasons why people believe.
For me the complexity of the story that spans over such a long time. Plus some "scientific facts".


Quote
Let me make it known again, I'm not trying to start an argument.
No worries  :thumbsup:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2009, 12:03:18 AM »
Sage,
There is only One you can call out to if you are lost.
Try all the other gods if you will.
Only One will respond.
Then! you will know that you are on holy ground.

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2009, 12:06:50 AM »
Please do not take this as I am trying to be a trolling atheist, for I believe the same as all of you. I'm just looking for a little guidance.

Why do you believe in Christianity?

Let's say the bible disappeared tomorrow, why would you keep believing the way you do? I've been doing a lot of reading in mythology (one of my favorite topics to read about). But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity. Hell, heaven, messiahs, God, all that stuff. Yet, when we read about mythology, we automatically say: "Ya that stuff's not real." Yet then we go back to church and do the same stuff everyone else was doing for their "Gods."

Help me out.

For me Sage, it is about Intelligence.  I don't know if I would believe in Christianity without the Bible though.  I find the intelligence behind it to be above what I believe a humans (apart from God) is capable of.  Take for example, fullfilments of prophecy.  Many atheists will say things are coincidence, but at some point so many coincidences tell me that something intelligent is being played out.  For example, we have Prophecies showing us that the Messiah would come.  And those prophecies are very abundant and non contradicting.   They are so abudnant and detailed and they are time driven.  Furthermore, these prochecies were out of man's power in coming about.  I could tell you that tomorrow a man will show up at your house wearing certain clothes and tell you something very specific.  But those things may be well within my power to do.  But the things these prophecies relate to are out of man's power to accomplish.   Some of the most amazing evidence comes from the Jews themselves.  They would have a motive to not let Jesus look like His words and deeds were true.  But the Jews recorded in the Talmud how that 40 years before the destruction of their temple that the miracles that were being performed therein, no longer happened.  This is significant because 40 years before the Temple was destroyed was when Jesus was Crucified.  The scarlet ribben tied to the goat no longer would turn white.  Doors of the Temple would remain open, candles would not stay lit, etc...  The Jewish Rabbis recorded these events.  So here we have those that would be most opposed to Jesus Christ providing some of the most provoking evidence towards His authority.  

Paul

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 12:09:44 AM »
I wonder about Zarathustrism, interesting religion, the 3 magis are said to have been Zarathustrists, some say Zarathustra foretold a messiah, there might a connection between the prophet Daniel and Zarathustra, but I don't know sure facts.

I think the Catholic church borrowed much from the pagans, other religions might have borrowed from the bible, Islam e.g.

Was there really 3 magi though?

Paul

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2009, 12:15:21 AM »
But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity.

Yes. But why? Just coincidence? (think not) What what first?
OT seems to predate everything that has a similar story.


http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/03chap07/default.htm

I'm saying most religions have books, stories, and all of that stuff. But why do we believe this one? For all we know the bible could be another story book. There are older religions, with older books. I'm just looking for some things people have discovered for themselves, but not from reading the bible.

Let me make it known again, I'm not trying to start an argument. I really am just confused/lost whatever you want to call it.

Sage, trust in Logic.  God gave it to you.  Follow it.  Reason as to how could Jesus really NOT be the Messiah in light of all the prophecies that foretell His arrival, mission, death, etc...

Paul

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2009, 12:16:09 AM »
Take for example, fullfilments of prophecy.  Many atheists will say things are coincidence,
Surely some say that but most know it's statistically impossible.
So the arguments are/become prophecies are written after the fact. Can't be verified. Description is so vague it always fits.


Quote
Some of the most amazing evidence comes from the Jews themselves.  They would have a motive to not let Jesus look like His words and deeds were true.  But the Jews recorded in the Talmud how that 40 years before the destruction of their temple that the miracles that were being performed therein, no longer happened.  This is significant because 40 years before the Temple was destroyed was when Jesus was Crucified.  The scarlet ribben tied to the goat no longer would turn white.  Doors of the Temple would remain open, candles would not stay lit, etc...  The Jewish Rabbis recorded these events.  So here we have those that would be most opposed to Jesus Christ providing some of the most provoking evidence towards His authority.
 
Interesting. I never heard about any of it. Do you have links to articles that have a bit more info?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 12:21:54 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2009, 12:18:55 AM »
Take for example, fullfilments of prophecy.  Many atheists will say things are coincidence,
Surely some say that but most know it's statistically impossible.
So the arguments are/become prophecies are written after the fact. Can't be verified. Description is so vague it always fits.


Quote
Some of the most amazing evidence comes from the Jews themselves.  They would have a motive to not let Jesus look like His words and deeds were true.  But the Jews recorded in the Talmud how that 40 years before the destruction of their temple that the miracles that were being performed therein, no longer happened.  This is significant because 40 years before the Temple was destroyed was when Jesus was Crucified.  The scarlet ribben tied to the goat no longer would turn white.  Doors of the Temple would remain open, candles would not stay lit, etc...  The Jewish Rabbis recorded these events.  So here we have those that would be most opposed to Jesus Christ providing some of the most provoking evidence towards His authority.
 
Interesting. I knew never heard about any of it. Do you have links to articles that have a bit more info?


Sure - check this out for example:

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/scapegoat.htm

I'm not saying I endorse everything on that site but I did check out the claims of this site with actual Talmud sources.

Paul

Offline willieH

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2009, 12:22:11 AM »
willieH: Hi Debbie... :hithere:

Nice to see you around here again!  :thumbsup:

Hi Sage,

Quote
But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity

Maybe that is because the "God thing" (now Christianity) is the original and all the other myths are created trying by those trying to arrive at the truth????  I know that there are "thoughts"..myths..religions, older than Christianity, but, none of them are older than God.

Debbie :)

Why do I believe in Christianity? Probably cause that's what I was born into. But, now, it is proving to be very reliable and oh so true.

...willieH  :happygrin:

Offline willieH

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2009, 12:34:20 AM »
willieH: Hi Sage... :hithere:

But the more I read, the more everything looks like Christianity.

Yes. But why? Just coincidence? (think not) What what first?
OT seems to predate everything that has a similar story.


http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/03chap07/default.htm

I'm saying most religions have books, stories, and all of that stuff. But why do we believe this one? For all we know the bible could be another story book. There are older religions, with older books. I'm just looking for some things people have discovered for themselves, but not from reading the bible.

Let me make it known again, I'm not trying to start an argument. I really am just confused/lost whatever you want to call it.

Belief in CHRIST is not an "imagined" thing.  It is a LIVING thing... As real and experienced as hitting a baseball or eating a steak, or falling in LOVE...

When one actually KNOWS the Savior... it's nothing like "believing in Ghosts" or that "they went to the moon"... It is an EXPERIENCE...

LOVE is something that cannot be measured or "bottled" or "bought"... It cannot be seen, or heard, nor can it be shown on a TV... Yet it is the MOST important thing on the EARTH, and it is the ONE THING that we ALL share in common, NEED and pursue...

It cannot be "scientifically explained", nor proven or disproven.  It just EXISTS... and when you EXPERIENCE it... it is the GREATEST of ALL experiences...

That you ask such a question, indicates to me, that He is yet "knocking at the door" of your heart Sage...  When you KNOW, instead of just BELIEVE... than Christianity will find itself to be a profound reality in you, not something that you might consider as an "imagination" of the mind.

...willieH  :cloud9:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2009, 12:57:03 AM »
Intelligence? Logic?
                                                    We are to lean not on our own understanding.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2009, 01:01:47 AM »
I wonder about Zarathustrism, interesting religion, the 3 magis are said to have been Zarathustrists, some say Zarathustra foretold a messiah, there might a connection between the prophet Daniel and Zarathustra, but I don't know sure facts.

I think the Catholic church borrowed much from the pagans, other religions might have borrowed from the bible, Islam e.g.

Was there really 3 magi though?

Paul
Actually it could have been 40 men on horseback, something that would have produced more of a stir with Herod.  Who they were was also significant to those in political power in the ancient world.  The Magi were "king makers."  They were "keepers of wisdom" that they taught to whoever was enthroned or destined for the throne.  That this group was seeking a king long prophecied to come and rule over all whose cosmic portents were announcing his arrival was significant enough to Herod that he had all the boy babies slain  from 2 years old and under in the area he was supposed to be.  Some have supposed that Daniel was the founder of the Magi, having saved the lives of all whose work in the world was wisdom.  The gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh were from Daniel. 
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Sage

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2009, 01:24:43 AM »
Thank you all for your replies.

willieH and Beloved Servant hit it on the head for me.

Beloved Servant, your post just made me laugh at myself. I can think back to times when I have asked for help, and I got it. I guess I needed someone to remind me, thank you.

willieH, your post made me remember some of the best church services I've been to. The ones where everybody in the room can feel a presence. Thank you for bringing up those beautiful memories.

Once again, thanks to everyone for everything. I knew it all along, but it seems my logical reasoning side got  the best of me. I'll just need to learn that not everything needs to be explained, just felt.

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2009, 02:30:46 AM »
Intelligence? Logic?
                                                    We are to lean not on our own understanding.

I'm not saying to lean on our understanding.  I'm saying to use the logic in understanding God's ways.  After all where does logic come from?  - God.  Nobody understands His ways without exercising logic.

Paul

Offline Nathan

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2009, 02:31:22 AM »
Intelligence? Logic?
                                                    We are to lean not on our own understanding.

Yeah, I cringed when I read that part as well bro. . .For me . . it's pretty much identical to what Willie wrote . . . another aspect would be that in all the other religions out there . . ."you" choose which one to follow . . .with Christ . . .it's not you choosing first, it's him choosing you first.  Big difference.  Everything after that is just a reaction to his choosing me.

Can Buddha choose anyone?  Paul spoke much about this as well . .these idols . . .they were created from the intelligence and logic of men . .but they can't do anything.  But God is not an idol made by human minds and imaginations, he is living and he's chosen us before we were even consciously aware of his existence.  Even if we don't "choose" to pursue him, we're still chosen by him to be his children.  

There is really only one Lord, one God . . .

Mark 12:32
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Romans 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
 
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The thing about the Word . . .whether it existed or whether it doesn't, the message in it is the same message that's written in us.  All the Word does, is agree with, affirm with the Word written in each one of us.

What's written is not what's living, it is a sign that points to what's living.  God's word is a living word, not in a book or translation, but an experience within us.  We are all epistles written by God, we are the book of life, read by others through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  How else can the river flow from our bellies if we don't allow ourselves to be openned and read by others?

SPOKENFOR

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2009, 02:32:31 AM »
When you have Christ in you, it does not matter what disappears. The world and all the things in it will be gone one day..and when you have built your house on the ROCK, you can not be shaken. It is not about religion or even doctrine, but knowing him...Jesus...That makes the difference in EVERYTHING. :)

trettep

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Re: A Question for Everyone
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2009, 02:34:58 AM »
I wonder about Zarathustrism, interesting religion, the 3 magis are said to have been Zarathustrists, some say Zarathustra foretold a messiah, there might a connection between the prophet Daniel and Zarathustra, but I don't know sure facts.

I think the Catholic church borrowed much from the pagans, other religions might have borrowed from the bible, Islam e.g.

Was there really 3 magi though?

Paul
Actually it could have been 40 men on horseback, something that would have produced more of a stir with Herod.  Who they were was also significant to those in political power in the ancient world.  The Magi were "king makers."  They were "keepers of wisdom" that they taught to whoever was enthroned or destined for the throne.  That this group was seeking a king long prophecied to come and rule over all whose cosmic portents were announcing his arrival was significant enough to Herod that he had all the boy babies slain  from 2 years old and under in the area he was supposed to be.  Some have supposed that Daniel was the founder of the Magi, having saved the lives of all whose work in the world was wisdom.  The gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh were from Daniel. 

Yes, that is my point, the scriptures don't indicate how MANY wise men there were.  This is why many atheists and others get confused as to what is the Truth because they keep finding contradictions to traditions and writings.

Paul