A less standard approach to Hell and also me on the radio.

[Brian]

Once again,  the host of the nationally syndicated program, The Narrow Path, discusses Hell with a caller, that I'm sure everyone will find interesting. This is the first call for Feb 18. Just go to www.thenarrowpath.com and click on Radio Program archive and then click on Feb 18 2009. And if anyone is interested... the 3rd caller that day is me, "Brad" (It's always Brad or Ryan or Frank. No one seems to get my name right on theses things). And Steve gives me some pretty powerful statements about the sovereignty of God
and people expecting God to live up to their standards.  Enjoy 
                                                                                     

[sheila]

  Wish I could listen in,Brian. But my speakers broke


                                                 Sheila

[Tony N]

Good question about the genocide issue.

It is hard to grasp that God would have Israel do such a thing especially if those who were killed automatically went to an "eternal hell." Of course the babies wouldn't go because they didn't reach the age of accountability (even though the Bible is silent on that issue).

But from our perspective, at least from my perspective looking at it from a UR destiny for all standpoint, I see that God kills and God makes alive but still has a glorious end for those killed. I hate to sound unfeeling but they were going to die anyway so why not die due to God's counsels?

All those people killed will be made alive and not one of them will point the finger at God and accuse Him of being unrighteous for what was done.

In fact, just the opposite will happen for Philippians 2:8-11 shows all of those people bowing adoringly in the name of Jesus and acclaiming that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God, the Father.

[Brian]

  Wish I could listen in,Brian. But my speakers broke


                                                 Sheila

There's plenty available at thrift stores etc. A friend of mine got some great ones from his neighbor who was ready to toss 'em.

But here are some of the highlights: The caller was asking about Gehenna. The host said Gehenna could take on two meanings. Either how it was addressed by prophets like Jeremiah, or what it got twisted into by the Pharisees due to Paganism they learned during the Babylon captivity. In other words, the original usage of Gehenna as a metaphor was not one of eternal punishment.
Now here's the question: When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, was he using it as a metaphor the way the prophets of old did? Or was he using it the way the Pharisees of the day were misusing it? Some say it was the way the Pharisees of the day were using it, because that doctrine had been in play for so long, it was the one the people Jesus was addressing, would relate to.

But then I remembered that Jesus quoted Isaiah when speaking about Gehenna, so it was therefore more clear that he was using the original metaphor of the prophets.
The host who was siding with this view, seemed pleased with that little revelation the Holy Spirit provided me with. "Good point!"

So, apparently the misconception of hell (Gehenna) being eternal punishment, was influenced by paganism. And Jesus wasn't using it as an eternal punishment metaphor since he was quoting the prophet Isaiah when talking about it.

To me this is remarkable, that such an orthodox deeply educated Christian scholar like Steve Gregg, is on nationally syndicated radio, saying hell very well may NOT be what everyone has been taught all these years.

This archive for Feb 18 2009 will be active until Feb 18 2010, so there's plenty of time to catch it. I'm trying to skim all his archived shows to form a log of where he discusses hell and universalism.

[Brian]

Good question about the genocide issue.

Yeah, it's a difficult issue. Although, I remember when I was reading the accounts in Joshua, I was wondering if maybe these people through their perversity hadn't developed some sort of strain like AIDS that God wanted obliterated. The same would apply to Sodom and Gomorra too.

It is hard to grasp that God would have Israel do such a thing especially if those who were killed automatically went to an "eternal hell." Of course the babies wouldn't go because they didn't reach the age of accountability (even though the Bible is silent on that issue).

The sad thing is, as my pastor pointed out resent in a Q&A; according to 5 point Calvinism, the "age of accountability" is a moot point. If a soul is tagged for hell, it's tagged for hell, regardless of age.

But from our perspective, at least from my perspective looking at it from a UR destiny for all standpoint, I see that God kills and God makes alive but still has a glorious end for those killed. I hate to sound unfeeling but they were going to die anyway so why not die due to God's counsels?
All those people killed will be made alive and not one of them will point the finger at God and accuse Him of being unrighteous for what was done.

In fact, just the opposite will happen for Philippians 2:8-11 shows all of those people bowing adoringly in the name of Jesus and acclaiming that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God, the Father.

Amen.

BTW, did you catch how out of it I was because of the flu I had? 

[Brian]

As a side note:
A cool thing is, later that day, I called my pastor's local radio show, and he said he had heard me on Steve Gregg's show. Which means he heard the discussion about hell. Which gives me a great opening to discuss that matter with him based on that show. It's a good thing I wasn't calling Steve to discuss UR, or my closet universalism would've been exposed. Whew! What a close shave. Guess I better get one of those devises that disguises your voice

[Tony N]

Good question about the genocide issue.

Yeah, it's a difficult issue. Although, I remember when I was reading the accounts in Joshua, I was wondering if maybe these people through their perversity hadn't developed some sort of strain like AIDS that God wanted obliterated. The same would apply to Sodom and Gomorra too.

I have often thought of that too.
Jude 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian."

I wonder what Jude really meant by the above in bold? Were they into beastiality? I'm pretty sure they were committing sodomy. They probably had all sorts of disease so maybe to quarantine the diseases God had to wipe them all out?

T: It is hard to grasp that God would have Israel do such a thing especially if those who were killed automatically went to an "eternal hell." Of course the babies wouldn't go because they didn't reach the age of accountability (even though the Bible is silent on that issue).

B: The sad thing is, as my pastor pointed out resent in a Q&A; according to 5 point Calvinism, the "age of accountability" is a moot point. If a soul is tagged for hell, it's tagged for hell, regardless of age.

You don't believe that? 

But from our perspective, at least from my perspective looking at it from a UR destiny for all standpoint, I see that God kills and God makes alive but still has a glorious end for those killed. I hate to sound unfeeling but they were going to die anyway so why not die due to God's counsels?
All those people killed will be made alive and not one of them will point the finger at God and accuse Him of being unrighteous for what was done.

In fact, just the opposite will happen for Philippians 2:8-11 shows all of those people bowing adoringly in the name of Jesus and acclaiming that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God, the Father.

Amen.

BTW, did you catch how out of it I was because of the flu I had? 

I've never heard you before so you sounded normal to me. Next time don't mess with me or a greater sickness shall come upon thee. LOL!

[Brian]

Next time don't mess with me or a greater sickness shall come upon thee. LOL!

Don't blame me. Blame "Brad".