Author Topic: 144,000 and the two witnesses  (Read 1158 times)

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IceDash

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144,000 and the two witnesses
« on: September 21, 2009, 01:53:16 PM »
I ask alot christians about this question and they said that because God giving us a last warning before he come back and kill all the sinners but this is what I don't get


Why would God send 144,000 to preach the goods news, and even the two witness late after 2000 years? Doesn't make sense, we have the bible that have the good news unless the christians got it backward and God send 144,000 to preach THE TRUTH, the REAL gospel, think about this for a second

Why God send a gospel again? we have the gospel in our bible but it's not enough?

martincisneros

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Doug

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 04:58:40 PM »
Quote from: IceDash Today at 06:53:16 AM

Why would God send 144,000 to preach the goods news, and even the two witness late after 2000 years? Doesn't make sense, we have the bible that have the good news unless the christians got it backward and God send 144,000 to preach THE TRUTH, the REAL gospel, think about this for a second

Why God send a gospel again? we have the gospel in our bible but it's not enough?


The number 144,000 is the size of a fairly large city. The church is pictured by the city of Jerusalem, as the throne of David was there, and Jesus has inherited the throne of David. [Luke 1:32] Jesus called Jerusalem "the city of the great King." [Mat. 5:35]

The city of Jerusalem has endured for thousands of years, like the church. It varies in size and fortunes in different generations. Jesus said, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." [Mat. 5:14]

The church is the light of the world, and the number mentioned by John is symbolic, as it is 12*12*1,000. The number 12 pertains to the 12 tribes of Israel. The number 1,000 is used as an indefinite, large number in several scriptures.

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Psalm 105:8
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.


Does God's word fail after 1,000 generations? Hardly. A thousand generations is equivalent to "forever." So, the 144,000 represents the church, the true Israel.

Jesus identified two things that would testify of him, in John 5:39 and John 15:26.

Since one who testifies is a "witness," these two scriptures identify the two witnesses in Rev. 11. They have been on the earth since the time of the apostles.

The 1,260 days is a symbol of the entire time of the church, and not a literal three and a half years. No literal three and a half years has that many days. In a lunar calendar, it would be about 1,240 days, or 1,269 days if an embolismic month was included. In the Gregorian calendar, it would be 1,278 days, or 1,279 days if a leap year was included. The 1,260 days is thus a symbol. It refers to the "time, times and a half" of Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, which is half of "seven times." Together with the ministry of Jesus on earth, the age of the church is "seven times." I suggest it corresponds to the last "seven times" of Lev. 26, when God remembers his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and is reconciled to Israel. And to the 7 years of Jacob's labor, for his bride. The bride of Christ is the church.

Doug

Offline Taffy

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 05:43:36 PM »
good post Doug :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Livelystone

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 06:42:26 PM »
Quote from: IceDash Today at 06:53:16 AM

Why would God send 144,000 to preach the goods news, and even the two witness late after 2000 years? Doesn't make sense, we have the bible that have the good news unless the christians got it backward and God send 144,000 to preach THE TRUTH, the REAL gospel, think about this for a second

Why God send a gospel again? we have the gospel in our bible but it's not enough?


The number 144,000 is the size of a fairly large city. The church is pictured by the city of Jerusalem, as the throne of David was there, and Jesus has inherited the throne of David. [Luke 1:32] Jesus called Jerusalem "the city of the great King." [Mat. 5:35]

The city of Jerusalem has endured for thousands of years, like the church. It varies in size and fortunes in different generations. Jesus said, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." [Mat. 5:14]

The church is the light of the world, and the number mentioned by John is symbolic, as it is 12*12*1,000. The number 12 pertains to the 12 tribes of Israel. The number 1,000 is used as an indefinite, large number in several scriptures.

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Psalm 105:8
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.


Does God's word fail after 1,000 generations? Hardly. A thousand generations is equivalent to "forever." So, the 144,000 represents the church, the true Israel.

Jesus identified two things that would testify of him, in John 5:39 and John 15:26.

Since one who testifies is a "witness," these two scriptures identify the two witnesses in Rev. 11. They have been on the earth since the time of the apostles.

The 1,260 days is a symbol of the entire time of the church, and not a literal three and a half years. No literal three and a half years has that many days. In a lunar calendar, it would be about 1,240 days, or 1,269 days if an embolismic month was included. In the Gregorian calendar, it would be 1,278 days, or 1,279 days if a leap year was included. The 1,260 days is thus a symbol. It refers to the "time, times and a half" of Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, which is half of "seven times." Together with the ministry of Jesus on earth, the age of the church is "seven times." I suggest it corresponds to the last "seven times" of Lev. 26, when God remembers his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and is reconciled to Israel. And to the 7 years of Jacob's labor, for his bride. The bride of Christ is the church.

Doug


Hmmm

 According to Paul there are two Jerusalems just like there are two churches......... one is in bondage with her children and is the church that follows after the flesh and the letter of the word.

Then there is the Jerusalem that comes down from heaven that is the mind, will and emotions of Christ  and is the bride for the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus already sent to earth and is as we speak ruling the hearts of those Christians who will be the first to recieve the bride from above  :HeartThrob:

Meanwhile the church in bondage thinks that they are the bride and are going to heaven to get married  :sigh:

However ther are those who pray for His Kingdom (the mind will and emotions of Jesus) to come unto us so we too can be in complete harmony with our creator........... Just like Jesus was  :thumbsup:

Blessings

Doug

Doug

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 08:06:34 PM »
Quote from: Livelystone Today at 11:42:26 AM

Hmmm

 According to Paul there are two Jerusalems just like there are two churches......... one is in bondage with her children and is the church that follows after the flesh and the letter of the word.

Then there is the Jerusalem that comes down from heaven that is the mind, will and emotions of Christ  and is the bride for the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus already sent to earth and is as we speak ruling the hearts of those Christians who will be the first to recieve the bride from above  Heart


The Jerusalem in bondage is the earthly Jerusalem, and the bondage is the Mosaic system, which was a "schoolmaster" to bring us to Christ, and contained "types" and "shadows" of the gospel.

God made his covenant with Abraham, and promised him, "in thy seed shall all nations be blessed." Paul called this the gospel, in Gal. 3:8. The covenant was also made with Isaac, and Jacob, and Jesus said they all will be in his kingdom.

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


Paul said the prophets, which includes Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are the foundation of the church, along with the apostles, Eph. 2:20.

In Rev. 7, John lists the names of the tribes of Israel in an order that was not the order of birth of the sons of Jacob. In the ordering of the names of the tribes, there is a hidden psalm for the bride of Christ, which is the Church, that consists of believers of all nations. The meaning of each name is given in Genesis. The hidden Psalm could read something like this:

I will praise the LORD, (Judah)
Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction, (Reuben)
He has granted me good fortune, (Gad)
Happy am I, (Asher)
With great wrestlings have I wrestled, (Naphtali)
But God will make me forget all my toil, (Manasseh)
The LORD hath heard me, (Simeon)
He has joined Himself to me, (Levi)
He has purchased me, (Issachar)
He will dwell with me always, (Zebulun)
The LORD shall add more children to me, (Joseph)
By the son of His right hand. (Benjamin)


The tribe of Dan is missing. Dan means "judgment" and the implication of the omission of his name is that those included in the 144,000 will escape the judgment, which supports their identification with the church.

Doug

Livelystone

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 08:30:17 PM »
When God said to start at his sanctuary and slay all those who have not the mark of the cross on their foreheads (the mind of Christ that sanctuary IS THE CHURCH !!!

Paul wrote of the Saints in Babylon and beyond (today) and that is why Jesus tell the Church to get out out of Babylon that was the place where the Jews (the church in the wilderness) worshipped the beast and its image

The modern day Church is the reason the world is what is as there is no longer any visual testimony seen by the world of our Lord on earth in this day and age.

The Sun is covered with sackcloth and the moon has become as blood............ Just as the early Jews killed their prophets the church that is suppose to be reflecting the light of Christ  kills the prophets today who come to it warning them just as the prophets of old warned Israel Consequently it now appears as blood and God has promised to avenge the slaying of innocent blood...............

Today they kill with the sword of the mouth instead of swords of steel........ at least for now  :winkgrin:

Blessings

Doug

IceDash

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Re: 144,000 and the two witnesses
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 10:22:18 PM »