Author Topic: 1 Timothy 4:10 Does this teach Jesus is The Savior of everyone who has lived?  (Read 8082 times)

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Moshood

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Lets use an Equation to see if what UR proposes makes sense or not compared to what Chosen of God proposes regarding 1 Timothy 4:10.

First UR...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...ESPECIALLY... of the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).


Now Chosen of God...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...THAT IS... the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).

Now which makes more sense?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:00:41 AM by Moshood »

333

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Quote
Depending on which righteousness you stand in is where you will be ( Hades or Heaven) until the final judgment (Rev 20:11-15).

Chosen

Where is heaven? Where is Hades? These are legitimate questions from the statement you made above.

Do you believe that heaven is "out there" somewhere? the same with hades? You see both is "within God". 

It was said "where would I go? heaven you are there, hell you are there."  God is omnipresent.  There is no where where He is not.  They are both "spiritual places".  Jesus said " I am in Heaven".  He was still very much in a flesh body when He said that.  He walked in the spiritual realm of heaven even while still on this earth.  They are not just  "places" we go to after physical death.  Heaven is not a place "out there" somewhere, with God sitting on a literal throne.  The same way when it says that Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father it does not mean 'He literally sat on a throne beside our Father's right side".  If God is omnipresent then , where is His right hand?" It means that Jesus took the position of authority beside the Father. (example: He is my right hand man).  It is a place of position.  Not a literal place.  For even Jesus must become subject to the Father. 

Jesus walked in the spiritual realm at all times.  We can too.  But you must go within.  He demostrated the spiritual realm on the mount of transfiguration.  And that was before His crucifixtion. 

There are many layers to the bible. To the written word.  The top layer being the "literal" layer.  But there are many layers beneath the literal layer.  Only the Holy Spirit can interpret these layers to you.  These are the hidden mystereies that Paul spoke about.  God's plan for the ages has been moving forward, is moving forward and will continue to move forward.  It did not stop.  These hidden mysteries that are deep within the pages of the written word have been being revealed to those true seekers all along.  We can choose to stop receiving , never moving forward and just sit on the knowledge that we received while sitting in the pews.  Hearing the same message over and over again for 40 or more years, never growing in the spirit, or we can choose to seek the Holy Spirit for His Truth, to begin to move beyond the veil. Knowing God and knowing about God is two different things.  We all need to move beyond the top layer of the written word to truly know God. The deep things of God are for those who truly seek Him.  Spirit to Spirit.  Is the only way. 

The written word says "you know longer need any man teach you for you have the Holy Spirit".  We CANNOT read the bible and interpret it ourselves.  That is still man teaching man.  Even if it is ourselves.

On the other side.  There are spiritual prisons.  But if you truly want to know what the Lake of Fire is that the bible speaks of then seek God on it.  For GOD HIMSELF IS A CONSUMING FIRE!! He will burn away all the wood hay and stubble and all that will be left is "pure gold".  Within each and every one of us. 
"do not be amazed at the firery trials that you go through, for they are for the PERFECTING of the saints!!!

God's plan for the ages is to make man in His image and likeness.  That is what He has been doing since time began. Each one of us.  Every man , woman and child who has ever lived, is living , or will ever live will be perfected and will take their place in the body of Christ!! The "manchild" that is spoke of in Revelations is "man made in God's image and likeness!! Made up of the whole human race as the body of Christ with JESUS AS THE HEAD!!!! This is the SON OF GOD!!! The manchild! THE NEW CREATION MAN!!!

The book of revelations is not a book of doom and gloom for the earth we walk on.  It is not "revelations that Jesus received to pass on".  For Jesus was God in the flesh. He ALREADY knew all! He knew all things from begining to end.  The book of the revelations of Jesus Christ is just that "It is a book revealing JESUS CHRIST!!! Who He is NOW, in the Spirit.  Revealing "the manchild" "the Christ" the new creation man , THE SON OF GOD , made up of the EKlesia as the body of Christ with JESUS the HEAD!!

That is why Jesus said "upon this Rock I will build my church". That is exactly what He has been doing all along is building His Church!! He is not in the business of burning or torturing anyone for eternity!! He has ONLY been building !!

Time was created for man.  Eternity is a period of time.  It has a begining and an ending!! There is no such thing as eternity in our Father's Kingdom.  There is no time.  That is why our Father said "I AM".  It is a place of "being".

If you believe in "eternal torment" for lost souls then "that too must end",, for all is within the concept of time which will eventually end.  Then what? those souls that should be burning alive for eternity goes where? Time is just a part of creation that is a part of our Father's plan for the ages and when all the ages has passed then time will be no longer. 




Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: AMEN 333, to all of it, and your very last sentence especially blessed me as a confirmation to an earlier thread discussion. Blessings.......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

333

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Amen Cardinal.  My prayer is for all to seek a deeper revelation of the true God.  Not the one that has been made up by man's interpretation of scripture. Divine revelation is still just as prevelant today as it was in the days of the apostles. For those who truly seek to hear God.

Offline sparrow

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Lets use an Equation to see if what UR proposes makes sense or not compared to what Chosen of God proposes regarding 1 Timothy 4:10.

First UR...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...ESPECIALLY... of the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).


Now Chosen of God...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...THAT IS... the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).

Now which makes more sense?

Good post.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: 333; Sigh............a breath of fresh air............... :thumbsup: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Seth

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Lets use an Equation to see if what UR proposes makes sense or not compared to what Chosen of God proposes regarding 1 Timothy 4:10.

First UR...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...ESPECIALLY... of the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).


Now Chosen of God...

God is the Savior of 100% ( All Men in General ), ...THAT IS... the 5% est. that have come to Know Him ( Believe ).

Now which makes more sense?

Hmmm...tough choice!  :laughing7:


Offline Doc

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Mosh.:   :thumbsup:

It's not even a question of which one makes more sense, but which makes any sense at all!
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Moshood

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Mosh.:   :thumbsup:

It's not even a question of which one makes more sense, but which makes any sense at all!

 :laughing7:

Online WhiteWings

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God is love. We love because He first loved us. That agape love does not go out to all His creatures. Only his elect. Jesus prayed for His people (elect) in John Chapter 17. Read it. Jesus says he does not pray for the world, but for the ones God has given Him.
And Father has give all.

John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
=> God gives full control to Jesus
John 17:2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Matthew 1:21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
=> The task of Jesus is to give eternal life to all things (=mankind)
John 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
=> And Jesus accomplishes His task
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Seth

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Hard to argue with that.  :HeartThrob:

Offline Molly

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:cloud9: AMEN 333, to all of it, and your very last sentence especially blessed me as a confirmation to an earlier thread discussion. Blessings.......

Would that be the dreaded time thread?  :laughing7:

Great post 333.

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: Ah, yes it would...... :laughing7:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline peacemaker

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But you must go within ... the mount of transfiguration. 

SPIRIT DRIVER'S LICENSE

Expires: NEVER   
Issued:   ON THE CROSS
Date of Birth: FROM THE BEGINNING
Height: ALL
Weight: ALL
Color: ALL
Hair: NUMBERED
Sex: NEITHER MALE, NOR FEMALE
Class: SPIRITUAL
Restrictions: NONE
Endorsements: CHRIST JESUS

Amen 333

peacemaker

« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 08:01:33 AM by peacemaker »

Offline Seth

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Peacemaker,

Would he be a doner?

I think so.

 :icon_joker:


preistsplace

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Hey Brandon,

No, I'm not annihilationist.. All people enjoy God's salvation in some way like those who BELIEVE enjoy His salvation. God is the Savior of all people in a temporal sense, while believers in an eternal sense. All people experience earthly benefits from the goodness of God.
can you show this to be true from the context of that verse?Where in that verse is the distinction made between eternal and temporal salvation?
If you read the verse as it stands it says what it says which is that God is the Saviour of all men , especially those that beleive . To assume different durations of salvation for the different groups is reading into the passage.
Blessings In Christ

Offline Doc

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Hey Brandon,

No, I'm not annihilationist.. All people enjoy God's salvation in some way like those who BELIEVE enjoy His salvation. God is the Savior of all people in a temporal sense, while believers in an eternal sense. All people experience earthly benefits from the goodness of God.
can you show this to be true from the context of that verse?Where in that verse is the distinction made between eternal and temporal salvation?
If you read the verse as it stands it says what it says which is that God is the Saviour of all men , especially those that beleive . To assume different durations of salvation for the different groups is reading into the passage.
Blessings In Christ

He won't be answering you. Apparently he's been banned.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

preistsplace

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He certainly showed up here with an agenda. Well wherever he is God Bless Him and may The Lord lead him to the truth.

Offline Cardinal

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 :cloud9: AMEN, priestsplace........Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

preistsplace

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back at ya Card....Blessings

Offline peacemaker

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Peacemaker, Would he be a doner? I think so. :icon_joker:

A willingness to give and receive is important for Life, is it not?  :HeartThrob: :declare:

Offline Doc

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He certainly showed up here with an agenda. Well wherever he is God Bless Him and may The Lord lead him to the truth.

Apparently, he's shown up again with the same agenda under a different ISP and screen name: lee 100.  :sigh:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

preistsplace

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persistent fellow..well maybe now he can answer my question.

preistsplace

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Sven,

1 Cor 15:22 "For just as in Adam all die, in the same way also in Christ all will be given life."
 
This Scripture teaches that all "in Adam" (non-believers) die, all "in Christ" ( believers) are made alive ( born again)

Another words, all who die in their sins die "in Adam" all who believe "in Christ" are given life.. You don't want to die in Adam.
All die in adam Yes ALL..But what about the Beleivers you say???...Well the believers crucified their old man with Christ, the non believers suffer the remedial judgement of the second death.
Also your interpretation of this verse ignores the sentence structure.
The verse says all will be made alive in Christ
COG says all in Christ will be made alive
The difference there is subtle but there is a world of difference.
All die in Adam All live in Christ
Blessings in Christ
Preistsplace

Offline claypot

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Peacemaker, Would he be a doner? I think so. :icon_joker:

A willingness to give and receive is important for Life, is it not?  :HeartThrob: :declare:

Look at a healthy lake.

Good words pm.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.