Author Topic: 1 john 5:16 meaning?  (Read 6799 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2010, 12:27:48 AM »

Trust me the world would be a much better place if he has already returned.



www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=4&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

1 John 4:

2 In this know you the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God,

3 and every spirit that confesses not Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it comes, and now is in the world already.

    





What the Scripture is saying is plain.

That Jesus Christ is come; present tense.

Not that He has come in the past or that He will again in the future. That is the spirit of antichrist!

CHRIST IS COME. HERE AND NOW.

Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2010, 07:35:19 AM »
...but I think he is one of the God's with his own personality, ... as a Christian he will be our companion for eternity and gives us eternal life.

Truth is a Revelation, the SPIRIT IS ONE. Where it is not accepted, carnality reigns.

Trinitarian-ism is not a mystery, it is a contradiction that leads to separation.

peacemaker

Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2010, 07:36:41 AM »
Pensively (marked with sadness), the disciples were anticipating the coming of the SPIRIT.

"You KNOW him, beloved, for the SPIRIT dwells WITHIN you."

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12890
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2010, 08:45:44 AM »
David,

I checked 25+ translations and about half uses "is" the others use "has".
I expect it's the famous aorist tense, (was is and keeps coming) but I don't have  a translation that make this clear.
Well that's abit of  alie.... I have a homemade online translation that show aorist tense. I don't really trust teh translation. Anyway according to that translation lots and lots of words are aorist. It has great consequences; for example it means that the whole book of Revelation is happening for nearly 2000 years.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8426
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2010, 09:36:06 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes, it is, because it's happening within the temple, and we are His temple. John said, it was in the temple, yet everyone is looking outside themselves for things to happen.

Those things that happened to the Jews were for our example, us, the heirs of salvation. All those countries and peoples listed in Revelation no longer exist (or as they did, now), but the message they were used to convey along with Israel's battles with them, does.

They were written for our example and understanding of the interior dynamics of the soul vs. the Spirit and of the Word and the Spirit working in unison to bring about the Revelation of Jesus Christ, who is IN US. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2010, 03:22:29 PM »
Amen Card and WW.

I feel like I've been fighting for 2000 years!

Awhile ago, I started to wonder if anyone besides the LORD Jesus is finished the race.
Hidden away, here on earth, waiting for the rest of the body of Christ to stand up.



Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12890
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2010, 04:40:20 PM »
Awhile ago, I started to wonder if anyone besides the LORD Jesus is finished the race.
Hidden away, here on earth, waiting for the rest of the body of Christ to stand up.
That's exactly what i meant when I wrote
Quote
It has great consequences; for example it means that the whole book of Revelation is happening for nearly 2000 years.
IMO it means a lot of (confusing) things. for the last 2000 years people have been ressurected. Cast in LoF. Entered eternal life. The trumpets etc happend over and over  :dontknow:
But I want to say I again that I have no translation with aorist rense in it so all the above is based on pure assumptions I can't check!

To make it even more complex.. Think about what it means if Genesis writes about the aorist-coming of Jesus...
Or Jesus been slain from the foundation of the world. (That's actually hidden in the very first Hebrew word of Genesis)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8426
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2010, 06:10:44 PM »
 :cloud9: I know what it would mean. It means He's in His creation and has been all along. He hid Himself in the last place man would look; in man.  :grin: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2010, 07:33:14 PM »
David,

I checked 25+ translations and about half uses "is" the others use "has".
I expect it's the famous aorist tense, (was is and keeps coming) but I don't have  a translation that make this clear.
Well that's abit of  alie.... I have a homemade online translation that show aorist tense. I don't really trust teh translation. Anyway according to that translation lots and lots of words are aorist. It has great consequences; for example it means that the whole book of Revelation is happening for nearly 2000 years.

It is easy to figure it out by just looking at the other scriptures. Jesus said, where I go you cannot come, I go to prepare a place for you, in my Fathers house are many mansions (The fathers house in not upon the Earth but in heaven)

Jesus is saying that he is in heaven, and none of his disciples could go and see him, but I will not leave you comfortless I will send you another, notice he doesn't say I will send myself again.

If he's in heaven as stated then John is talking about those who deny Jesus has come not is come, otherwise the words about Jesus sending another comforter are also wrong, also the words about Jesus in heaven also wrong, if that is true then the bible is becoming weaker and that is not good for the faith.


Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8426
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2010, 07:55:20 PM »
 :cloud9: You know, they've since taken it out in later printings, but I have an older Strong's that lists "mansions" as also having a meaning of "nests"......think feast of Tabernacles with their booths, which are like upside "nests".  :happygrin: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2010, 08:32:56 PM »
...but I think he is one of the God's with his own personality, ... as a Christian he will be our companion for eternity and gives us eternal life.

Truth is a Revelation, the SPIRIT IS ONE. Where it is not accepted, carnality reigns.

Trinitarian-ism is not a mystery, it is a contradiction that leads to separation.

peacemaker


The 3 Gods are one, which we call God. They are not like us humans who fight over who is the best etc. They exist in perfect harmony for they are God. There is a reason why Jesus calls God his Father and there is a reason why God the Father calls his son, Son, who else is known as the only begotten son of the living God?. They have a relationship that can only be described in Earthly language as the relationship between Father and Son, both equal in many ways, but the Father has the final mark of authority on matters, the holy ghost is also mentioned as Gods spirit and even groans for us and makes intercession for us. What kind of power groans? To me the holy ghost is also a God and makes up what we call God.


Offline peacemaker

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2010, 05:28:51 AM »
What kind of power groans?

"Sighing deeply in Spirit for those held in captivity."

peacemaker

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8426
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2010, 08:01:02 AM »
 :cloud9: He groaned within Himself......it's the power of love, of a birthing as a woman with child travailing for it to be born. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2010, 09:02:12 PM »
:cloud9: He groaned within Himself......it's the power of love, of a birthing as a woman with child travailing for it to be born. Blessings...

 :thumbsup:

God is love

Holy Ghost, loves??

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2010, 09:07:09 PM »

Trust me the world would be a much better place if he has already returned.



www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=4&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

1 John 4:

2 In this know you the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God,

3 and every spirit that confesses not Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it comes, and now is in the world already.

    





What the Scripture is saying is plain.

That Jesus Christ is come; present tense.

Not that He has come in the past or that He will again in the future. That is the spirit of antichrist!

CHRIST IS COME. HERE AND NOW.


Reply #13 on: July 02, 2010, 03:03:32 PM
   Reply with quoteQuote

beloved servant
 
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




Was it fun in the clouds? :cloud9: Why did you choose to come back?

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2010, 09:15:42 PM »
I do not understand your post.

Is that another sarcastic remark like the vulgar poem you made up about Willie that the mods deleted?

If so, the joke went right over my head.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 09:22:41 PM by Beloved Servant »

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5608
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2010, 09:29:07 PM »

Trust me the world would be a much better place if he has already returned.



www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=4&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

1 John 4:

2 In this know you the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God,

3 and every spirit that confesses not Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it comes, and now is in the world already.

    





What the Scripture is saying is plain.

That Jesus Christ is come; present tense.

Not that He has come in the past or that He will again in the future. That is the spirit of antichrist!

CHRIST IS COME. HERE AND NOW.


Reply #13 on: July 02, 2010, 03:03:32 PM
   Reply with quoteQuote

beloved servant
 
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




Was it fun in the clouds? :cloud9: Why did you choose to come back?

I too, do not understand your post, but I, my friend am in the clouds now and am learning much and I only desire a much higher  relationship in the clouds. 
Peace and Love Through Jesus
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2010, 09:48:52 PM »
Thinktank,

My reply #13 that you quoted me from is on a completely different thread.

What do you "think" you're doing here?

No wonder that I did not understand your post.

Practiced deception.

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2010, 10:02:53 PM »
I do not understand your post.

Is that another sarcastic remark like the vulgar poem you made up about Willie that the mods deleted?

If so, the joke went right over my head.



Ha I knew you didn't like it. Vulgar is a bit strong, of a word, it's only a body part, have you read the old testament? the vulgarity happening is plain to see. God sanctifies and blesses all the body, but if it has made you feel bad then I am sorry.

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2010, 10:06:44 PM »

Don't apologize to me.

And, I am being polite using the term vulgar to describe your post about WillieH.

Is disgraceful more to the point?

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2010, 10:10:18 PM »
Thinktank,

My reply #13 that you quoted me from is on a completely different thread.

What do you "think" you're doing here?

No wonder that I did not understand your post.

Practiced deception.

Well as you can imagine I don't enjoy being hinted that I have the spirit of the antichrist, particularly after all the great posts here, which I hope have blessed many, as I have enjoyed being here interacting with fellow belivers in Jesus.

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2010, 10:15:11 PM »


Yes, you are a credit to your religion.

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2010, 10:18:06 PM »

Don't apologize to me.

And, I am being polite using the term vulgar to describe your post about WillieH.

Is disgraceful more to the point?

You need to lossen up a bit, The joy of the lord is my strength.

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2010, 10:22:05 PM »


Yes, you are a credit to your religion.

Thank you I like all people enjoy appreciation, but the credit belongs to the lord Jesus Christ.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8426
  • Gender: Female
Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2010, 10:32:26 PM »
 :sigh: Guys, please take a timeout from each other.....I don't want to have to lock this thread. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor