Author Topic: 1 john 5:16 meaning?  (Read 8169 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2010, 07:02:41 AM »
I will say the time, to whom and perspective.
Still, if you believe there is a sin, or err, that cannot or will not be forgiven, then I say you do nor accept the Word of God in the Bible to be true.
Either He WILL save all or.........He will not save all. Its your faith, your hope, your understanding. Peace and Love Through Jesus
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2010, 09:00:32 AM »
I quote this from the bible, look I know I sound like Jesus sometimes :laughing7:
Nah, I think Jesus sounded like a nice guy  :LH:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »
Okay . . . the underlying argument here is, if we embrace grace, then how can there be someone do something that grace can't cover?

I happen to be of the notion that the cross paid for ALL sin . . .including blaspheme . . .so, "if" the cross is truly that powerful . . .then perhaps our INTERPRETATION" of that passage is still through the eyes of our reason and not through the eyes of the Father?

Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

What if . . .this is not saying the one blaspheming against the Holy Ghost will never be forgiven, but instead, what if it's saying, the person who chooses to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost has no forgiveness in him, toward himself and others???

It's not about "being" forgiven, it's about having the ability to forgive.  Does this fit better?

Offline reFORMer

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2010, 08:11:08 AM »
A more accurate translation helps relieve the attempt to explain an erroneous translation.

Mark 328-30, Concordant Literal Translation...
28 "Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming,
29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin" --
30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he."

I would like to add, as I have before, the popular idea of any and all sin being infinite, hence, requiring infinite retribution, is beyond ridiculous.  I am truly amazed at how ubiquitous this unscriptural idea is.

Also, there is not only unforgiven or forgiven sin.  The other category is paying for your sin.  Under the law certain retributions were required.  When those were met, the sin was paid for.  That made it over and done with.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Nathan

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2010, 07:29:34 AM »
ReFORMer, your last post seems to be contradicting itself in the last two statements you wrote out. The first seems to be against the idea that ALL sin has been dealt with and the last statement you wrote eludes to the sinner becoming clean through following the works of the law . . .which Christ fulfilled .. . which then sort of reverts back to the idea that all sin has been dealt with through the finished works of the cross . . .

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2010, 07:41:06 AM »
Hi Nathan.  I'm not James reFORMer, I'm James the Lesser  :happygrin:, but here's what I got out of the post.

I thought he was addressing sins before the cross, in the age of Law, before the current "age of grace", as well as sins after the cross.  2 different ages, 2 different requirements.   :2c:  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the best I can figure.

James/reF?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2010, 09:24:07 AM »
Hi Nathan.  I'm not James reFORMer, I'm James the Lesser
Lesser = something that quenches (thrist)

KJVRev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He has returned!  :bgdance:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2010, 08:08:24 PM »
Hi Nathan.  I'm not James reFORMer, I'm James the Lesser
Lesser = something that quenches (thrist)

KJVRev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He has returned!  :bgdance:

Trust me the world would be a much better place if he has already returned.

Remember his words in the gospel

Where I go you cannot go, for I go unto the father but I give you another, the conforter, he will lead you into all truth.

The water we drink is the comforter the holy ghost, but Jesus is in heaven with his father.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2010, 09:06:41 PM »
Hu? So Jabcat is not the lesser? :mshock:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2010, 09:21:24 PM »
I guess the question is, "lesser than what or who?".   :laughing7:  I let James (reFORMer) be the "greater", and I take "the lesser".  But I don't think either one of us are these guys;   :mblush:

St. James the Lesser

St. Paul tells us he was a witness of the Resurrection of Christ; he is also a "pillar" of the Church, whom St. Paul consulted about the Gospel.  www.apostles.com

 
Saint James (James the Great)

Together with his brother Saint John, Saint James was among the first disciples called by Jesus (Matt. 4:21). These sons of Zebedee, called the Boanerges ("Sons of Thunder"), joined the brothers Peter and Andrew, also fishermen by trade, in a close inner circle around Jesus. James, Peter, and John were the only disciples present, for example, at the Transfiguration (Luke 9) and near Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. James was martyred under Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12). According to legend, his bones were taken to Spain, and his shrine at Santiago de Compostela was one of the most important pilgrimage centers in the Middle Ages. Feast day: Apr. 30 (Eastern); July 25 (Western).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saint James (James the Lesser or James the Less or James the Little)
General Information
Saint James the Lesser was the Apostle James, son of Alphaeus and disciple of Jesus (Mark 3:18). His mother, Mary, was one of the women at the crucifixion and at the tomb (Matt. 10:3; 27:56, Mark 15:40; 16:1; Acts 1:13). This James is sometimes identified with James the "brother of Jesus," although this and other identifications are unproven. Feast day: Oct. 9 (Eastern); May 3 (Western, since 1969).

Kind of interesting info though  :bigGrin:


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2010, 09:42:08 PM »
I guess the question is, "lesser than what or who?".   :laughing7:  I let James (reFORMer) be the "greater", and I take "the lesser".  But I don't think either one of us are these guys;   :mblush:
I must have completly misunderstood you... :winkgrin:

English: quench thirst  = Dutch: Dorst lessen

Lessen --> Lesser=something that quenches thirst.
Something like water.
"I'm James the Lesser" --> "I'm James the quencher-of-thirst" --> "I'm James the water"
BBEJoh 4:14 But whoever takes the water I give him will never be in need of drink again; for the water I give him will become in him a fountain of eternal life

 :friendstu: :beerburp:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2010, 12:14:16 AM »
I guess the question is, "lesser than what or who?".   :laughing7:  I let James (reFORMer) be the "greater", and I take "the lesser".  But I don't think either one of us are these guys;   :mblush:
I must have completly misunderstood you... :winkgrin:

English: quench thirst  = Dutch: Dorst lessen

Lessen --> Lesser=something that quenches thirst.
Something like water.
"I'm James the Lesser" --> "I'm James the quencher-of-thirst" --> "I'm James the water"
BBEJoh 4:14 But whoever takes the water I give him will never be in need of drink again; for the water I give him will become in him a fountain of eternal life

 :friendstu: :beerburp:

I seriously thought about asking you if you were sure you weren't having a "Dutch language moment"  :dsunny:.  (As far as Dutch, I'd be totally lost.  No Dukes of Hazzard in Dutch here for me to learn the language).

Offline peacemaker

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2010, 03:30:38 AM »
Jesus is in heaven with his father.

If the father is SPIRIT, then where or what is heaven?
And who is the Holy Spirit, or comforter?

Just looking for clarification, not a geographical location.

peacemaker

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2010, 04:50:27 AM »

Trust me the world would be a much better place if he has already returned.



www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=4&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

1 John 4:

2 In this know you the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God,

3 and every spirit that confesses not Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it comes, and now is in the world already.

   

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2010, 07:42:14 PM »
Jesus is in heaven with his father.

If the father is SPIRIT, then where or what is heaven?
And who is the Holy Spirit, or comforter?

Just looking for clarification, not a geographical location.

peacemaker

Hello, I'm not sure what you mean but I'll say this.

The Father is ancient of days who sits upon the throne in heaven, no one has seen the father except the son. I would not confine the father to just one location though for he is God, but scripture points to a commanding figure who sits upon the throne in the book of revelation.

The holy spirit is the one who Jesus sent into the Earth, probably the most mysterious out them all, for he does the work of God, a lot of Christians think he's just the power of God, but I think he is one of the God's with his own personality, as a Christian he will be our companion for eternity and gives us eternal life.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2010, 08:09:56 PM »
The holy spirit is the one who Jesus sent into the Earth, probably the most mysterious out them all, for he does the work of God, a lot of Christians think he's just the power of God, but I think he is one of the God's with his own personality, as a Christian he will be our companion for eternity and gives us eternal life.
Then why is the HS never called "he" (in Greek)?

Quote
The Father is ancient of days who sits upon the throne in heaven, no one has seen the father except the son. I would not confine the father to just one location though for he is God, but scripture points to a commanding figure who sits upon the throne in the book of revelation.
a] Why did the HS never see Father?
b] Is Father really in control?
John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 17:2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The way I read it Father is the highest authority but since creation the Son did the actual ruling.
Until:
KJV1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2010, 08:23:38 PM »
The holy spirit is the one who Jesus sent into the Earth, probably the most mysterious out them all, for he does the work of God, a lot of Christians think he's just the power of God, but I think he is one of the God's with his own personality, as a Christian he will be our companion for eternity and gives us eternal life.
Then why is the HS never called "he" (in Greek)?

Quote
The Father is ancient of days who sits upon the throne in heaven, no one has seen the father except the son. I would not confine the father to just one location though for he is God, but scripture points to a commanding figure who sits upon the throne in the book of revelation.
a] Why did the HS never see Father?
b] Is Father really in control?
John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 17:2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The way I read it Father is the highest authority but since creation the Son did the actual ruling.
Until:
KJV1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Haven't checked the greek, but the kjv says "he shall lead you into all truth,

Many Christians can hear the holy spirit talk to them and wisper prophecy.

a] Why did the HS never see Father?

No evidence that he didn't.

b] Is Father really in control?
John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 17:2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

I agree, Jesus said my father is greater than all.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2010, 08:37:00 PM »
Quote
Haven't checked the greek, but the kjv says "he shall lead you into all truth,
HS is called 5 times "it" in that verse.
KJVJoh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I think you will like THIS free program.
The verse in that program looks like THIS

Very literal translation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2010, 08:43:05 PM »
b] Is Father really in control?
John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
John 17:2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

I agree, Jesus said my father is greater than all.
I didn't mean that.
If Father has given all control to Jesus then why is Father "the commanding figure" in Revelation?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2010, 09:04:45 PM »
Quote
Haven't checked the greek, but the kjv says "he shall lead you into all truth,
HS is called 5 times "it" in that verse.
KJVJoh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I think you will like THIS free program.
The verse in that program looks like THIS

Very literal translation.



I'm not convinced, "it" sounds clumsy, I don't like disrespecting the holy ghost by calling him "it", I'd rather call him "he" and believe in John's epistle

There are three that testify in heaven, the father, son and holy ghost, and these three are one.

Batizing them in the name of the son and holy ghost was a regular practice.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2010, 09:23:38 PM »
Quote
I'm not convinced, "it" sounds clumsy, I don't like disrespecting the holy ghost by calling him "it", I'd rather call him "he"
Sorry to say TT but I think that's called "doctrine of man".
It sounds funny because you have been thaught otherwise.
Why disrespect if it's inspired that way?
It's also disrespect saying God did a lousy job with calling "it" clumsy.
Note#1: Honest mistakes are no disrespect IMO.
Note#2: I'm not 100% sure translations I like/trust really write "it"
Note to Jabcat: Check John 16:13 in CB
Quote
and believe in John's epistle
Inspired John wrote "it".
Quote
There are three that testify in heaven, the father, son and holy ghost, and these three are one.
Batizing them in the name of the son and holy ghost was a regular practice.
And? That tells us nothing about he or it.

Just my thought....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2010, 10:00:51 PM »
So you think there are only 2 gods Father and son?

So what is the holy ghost to you, if he's not a person?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2010, 10:15:52 PM »
I try to think nothing and figure things out with an open mind.
Personally I don't care if HS is he, she, it or all at the same time.

It's just is that Greek writes "it".
Should I simply ignore that fact?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2010, 10:19:45 PM »
I try to think nothing and figure things out with an open mind.
Personally I don't care if HS is he, she, it or all at the same time.

It's just is that Greek writes "it".
Should I simply ignore that fact?

No, God bless, let the holy ghost lead us into truth.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: 1 john 5:16 meaning?
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2010, 11:16:28 PM »
 :cloud9: AMEN to that.... :thumbsup: I don't care what sacred cow has to bite the dust to come into all truth, I say, fire up the BarB.....  :winkgrin: :2thumbs:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 11:19:30 PM by Cardinal »
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