Author Topic: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?  (Read 1799 times)

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Offline IceMan84

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1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« on: June 27, 2011, 09:42:57 AM »
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

I'm not sure if this verse relates directly to UR or not but it is one that I have struggled to understand recently. What exactly is John trying to say here? Everyone obviously keeps on sinning as long as we are here on this Earth as humans....is he referring to after we are reconciled beyond this life?

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 10:12:52 AM »
To some degree, could the language be a matter of comparison, i.e., contrasting one thing against another rather than making what we [with our Western mindset] would consider an "absolute" statement?  For example, when Jesus said hate your father, mother, etc...  He was apparently saying that in comparison, in contrast to the love and devotion we are to have for him, the love toward our earthly family pales that much in comparison that the Greek [or Hebrew/Aramaic] described it as "hate".

I understand this particular verse to mean, our very character has changed.  We no longer sin without remorse, planning it, continuing it, WITHOUT repentance/turning/a desire to please Him.  Paul described it as continually doing wrong, but that was no longer his heart's desire, and that in fact, it was no longer him that did it, but the sin that dwelt in him!  Rather than doing the sin he had previously wanted, he now did the sin he no longer wanted.  The battle against the flesh.  The unsaved have no battle against the flesh.  The flesh has [up until now] "won" and is in control.  The born again believer still struggles with sin, but now it is a struggle, not just a careless, non-repentant, "I don't care" attitude.  It's the change of heart, motive, desire, that comes from the new birth.  IMO, if someone says they're a believer, but the Holy Spirit isn't within, convicting, guiding to repentance and to continuing to seek obedience, although it's not for me to judge, generally I believe the scripture is saying then that person has yet to be spiritually re-born.

If any man is in Christ He is a new creature.  Behold the old is passing away, and all things are BECOMING new.

God bless, James.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline IceMan84

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 04:57:21 PM »
Thanks as always for your reply jabcat. I guess I just tend to look at things in the bible too "black and white" sometimes. I also read on another site that John was primarily trying to draw a distinction between gnosticism and true Christianity. I don't know very much about gnoticism but plan on researching it some more.

Offline sheila

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 07:10:05 PM »
 Hey Jabcat,,good post

  there is a scripture that speaks of those not under law..but are a law unto themselves..their conscious bearing with them.  I feel that all men,each day,

  struggle with love or selfishness. Will I share my dinner,will I be kind to a stray dog will I show compassion,or be unmerciful.giver or taker

  anyone that loves is in His image...anyone that hates is in the image of the corruptible one.

   a lot of people,because of past religious cruelty and hypocrisy,as well as the confusion of Babylon...steer away from religion etc....but these people,

  you will find out,often say such things as.......if there is a God[doubtful]please hear me,or the spirit will groan for what they do not know.

  it is said..that the church judges those in the church..but God judges those on the outside 1 Cor 5;13   what buisiness is it of mine to judge

  those  outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside, expel the wicked man from among you[ha!] if the church is not able to

 expel sin from their own bodies[who are the church] what right do they have to judge the sin in those outside the church.


  Now, this is the judgement of God...all men condemned for sin in flesh...all men to receive  free grace  this is how HE HAS JUDGED...


   Now He has written to those who see a splinter in their brothers eye....first take the log out of yours...



    I rejoice in this judgement...for we are not ignorant of the atrocities done by the 'church' these past 2000 years


  indeed it has been impossible to discern the righteous from the sinner man..by appearances+


  unregenerated man[that wicked generation] will perish in all men


   DISCERN BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED   1 Cor 11;29  Therefore,whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner

will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine 'himself' before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup....

for anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord,eats and drinks judgement on himself.

   THAT IS WHY MANY OF YOU ARE WEAK AND SICK,AND A NUMBER OF YOU HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP[read the parable of the ten virgins-all slept]


   but if we judged ourselves[as sinners needing grace] We would Not come under judgement


   So, then my brothers,when you come togather to eat,wait for each other. If anyone is hungry he should eat at home, so that when you eat togather, it may

Not result in judgement

Offline Nathan

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 02:09:58 AM »
I play with people's heads a lot with this one.  For me, it's all about perspective.  As we read Scripture, the Old Covenant is all about seeing through the eyes of the law.  But in the New Covenant, what we see is all through the eyes of Grace.  Where sin abounds . . .GRACE abounds EVEN MORE.  For me, this passage in question is about the perspective of the one doing the observing.  Question . . .would you want God to see you through the eyes of grace?  Or through the eyes of judgment?  Would you want him to see you in a fallen state?  Or in His finished state?  Where does Life lie?  What realm does THE SOURCE of life abound?  What realm are we called to walk in?  Spirit?  or Flesh?

For me, flesh is the fallen state.  When I walk in the flesh, I see sin and death all around.  But when I walk in the Spirit, I see grace abounding EVEN MORE.  I think this is what John is referring to.  Those who are without life can only manifest death . . .sin.   But those who have life in them, as that life transforms them, it blinds them to the sin and in God's eyes, from the perspective of our beloved creator above, we are still lviing in a realm of sin and death, our bodies of flesh still crave desires of fleshly things, and there may be times our nature gives in to the flesh, but we have his life in us and our pursuit is not to self-indulge in fleshly things, but our flesh still comes up short in our pursuit of his nature . . .but again, in the spirit, those failures are no longer acredited against us.  Paul mentioned this when he posed the question, "then does that mean I can sin all I want?   Obviously the answer is no.  But there is a great grace that abounds as we continue to allow his light in us to press in toward the high prize of our goal to be wholly perfected in him.

Read it all the way through to verse nine . . .

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 03:03:13 AM »
Thanks as always for your reply jabcat. I guess I just tend to look at things in the bible too "black and white" sometimes.

y/w Iceman.  I know, I understand.  I can relate.

ty sheila   :bigGrin:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

myrddin

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Re: 1 John 3:6 interpretation?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 07:39:00 AM »
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

I'm not sure if this verse relates directly to UR or not but it is one that I have struggled to understand recently. What exactly is John trying to say here? Everyone obviously keeps on sinning as long as we are here on this Earth as humans....is he referring to after we are reconciled beyond this life?
The way I understand it is that the sense of the verb is "continues in sin", that is, stays sinning with no improvement. sure, Christians sin, but they don't live in it; they don't 'swim' in it.   Righteousness characterizes them more and more.  It's that simple.  That damnationist Tertullian gave people one chance to sin but that was it.  God gives us >490 chances.