Author Topic: 1 Cor. 3:15  (Read 3079 times)

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whyiloveitaly.com

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1 Cor. 3:15
« on: December 03, 2009, 02:53:26 PM »
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Is this not a declaration of UR??
To me it seems so. Yet very rarely mentioned!

Love to hear any thoughts..

Love to all,
Brian

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 03:10:58 PM »
Brian this is %100 all saved peroid

Offline lookingup

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 03:16:18 PM »
Brian,

it has stumped me also as to why this is not mentioned more than it is. it is no mystery as to why you won't hear it much in mainstream ET.

There is one other verse that i have wondered about too:

                   Mr 9:49 -
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

             i find it odd that when ETers quote Mark 9: they will start at 41 and abrubtly stop at 48

                             Gods' love and peace

Offline sven

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 03:31:57 PM »
one might argue it refers to believers only, I think in Catholicism this verse is used to defend the doctrine of purgatory.

Werner

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 06:24:56 PM »
I was just pondering this text when I came to the forum and here it was being discussed! After my post below, I started to watch a live stream on EWTN and the very same verse appeared - it was being read out loud as a verse of the hour or something. Strange!

Here is the verse with a bit of context:

1 Cor. 3:11-15

  11 For no one can lay any other foundation than that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ.
  12 But if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or stubble;
  13 each man's work will be revealed. For the Day will declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the  fire itself will test what sort of work each man's work is.
  14 If any man's work remains which he built on it, he will receive a reward.
  15 If any man's work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

  16 Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?

Maybe whatever works not done in love, in Jesus, will be purged?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 06:39:53 PM by Werner »

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 08:07:16 PM »
Hi all!
(I'm glad to see some new faces here!! (Well, new to me!  :laughing7: ))

Thanks for adding context Werner! I like how they say "any man's." That seems to rule out any debate over reference to believers/unbelievers.

Looking up,
"Everyone being salted with fire" is one that NO ETer likes. --They also generally deny that the lake of fire is somehow related to the fact that God is a consuming fire. How convenient!!

Maybe there should be a discussion board dedicated to the verses we DON'T understand. I'd have quite a few....

Many blessings to all,
Brian

natcat86

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2009, 08:40:30 PM »
The work is built on the foundation of jesus so back when I assumed er was true I assumed this verse was taking about believers.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 12:34:53 AM »
Quote
Maybe whatever works not done in love, in Jesus, will be purged?

The bible certainly seems to indicate that.  As Paul wrote about how one can do "works" that appear good, but not with the right spirit.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. I Cor. 13: 3

This is why we cannot judge men even by what we see them doing... because only God knows the heart of a man/woman. 

Then there was the story Jesus told about the widow's mite, which seemed like such a small amount, but she was commended for giving in faith all that she had.    Great topic.

anne

Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline lomarah

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 01:21:05 AM »
Quote
Maybe whatever works not done in love, in Jesus, will be purged?

The bible certainly seems to indicate that.  As Paul wrote about how one can do "works" that appear good, but not with the right spirit.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. I Cor. 13: 3

This is why we cannot judge men even by what we see them doing... because only God knows the heart of a man/woman. 

Then there was the story Jesus told about the widow's mite, which seemed like such a small amount, but she was commended for giving in faith all that she had.    Great topic.

anne


:thumbsup: :goodpost: Well said!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 02:24:18 AM »
  Great thread!

 "  That is why we can not judge men even by what we see them

doing, Because only God knows the heart of a man/woman"


   RIGHT!!!    Some hearts are perverted...though they come in a

 guise of 'LOVE" they are only self-seeking.  A seducer comes

 as one who has genuine care and love,or your best interest

at heart,but really doesn't.


   And God KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE!!

 

Offline sparrow

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 05:40:08 AM »
That which is love will survive God's refining fire...
Why?
Because LOVE endures!
Love NEVER ENDS!  :HeartThrob:

Sheila is correct, God knows the heart.

This is why there will be some atheists, for example, who think that they did not know God, yet have some of their "works" SURVIVE God's refining fire, because of it being real LOVE in their heart being the motivation for these works. Whereas, on the other hand, you will have those who profess Christ with their mouths, yet some of their works will be DESTROYED in His refining fire, because their motivation was NOT love, but self-serving reasons. God knows the heart.  :HeartThrob: This is a good thing.

There are some who claim to know God, yet their heart tells a slightly different story.
There are some who claim to NOT know God, yet their heart tells a slightly different story.

There will be those who think they will recognize Christ, but will not.
There will be those who think they would never recognize Christ, yet they will know Him as soon as they lay eyes on Him.

God works in mysterious ways, my friends.  :HeartThrob:

God IS love.

The whole point is that He is doing a work in EACH of us. EACH OF US!
EVERY single knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL CONFESS Jesus Christ is LORD.
That's a fact.
And nothing will change that.
Nothing.

Hallelujah.

His plan is magnificent and 100% perfect.
What a great God we have.

Indeed.

peace.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline rosered

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 03:28:31 PM »

 
   Good  posting  everyone ,
 You are right sparrow
 those who profess Christ do have the   greater judgment  now
 
    Even  what they think they have will be taken away
 all this chapter   it is a warning
 
 
 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 


 1Ti 6:12   Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 


 1Ti 6:13  I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and [before] Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 

 1Ti 6:14  That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ


 1Ti 6:15   Which in his times he shall show, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 


 1Ti 6:16   Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen. 


 1Ti 6:17  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy


 1Ti 6:18   That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate


 1Ti 6:19   Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.  


 
Jesus is the reward  !!

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 03:49:42 PM »
Sparrow:
Quote
This is why there will be some atheists, for example, who think that they did not know God, yet have some of their "works" SURVIVE God's refining fire, because of it being real LOVE in their heart being the motivation for these works. Whereas, on the other hand, you will have those who profess Christ with their mouths, yet some of their works will be DESTROYED in His refining fire, because their motivation was NOT love, but self-serving reasons. God knows the heart.  Heart This is a good thing.

There are some who claim to know God, yet their heart tells a slightly different story.
There are some who claim to NOT know God, yet their heart tells a slightly different story.

There will be those who think they will recognize Christ, but will not.
There will be those who think they would never recognize Christ, yet they will know Him as soon as they lay eyes on Him.

God works in mysterious ways, my friends.  Heart

God IS love.

The whole point is that He is doing a work in EACH of us. EACH OF US!
EVERY single knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL CONFESS Jesus Christ is LORD.
That's a fact.
And nothing will change that.
Nothing.

Hallelujah.


I agree with you so much! I think this is the "crossroad" where some believers begin to hold back, almost in doubt of the love that we are to walk in..

Blessings,
Brian

Offline sheila

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 04:36:36 PM »
   Luke 16

   the shrewd manager

   I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain freinds for yourselves,so

when it is gone you WILL BE WELCOMED INTO ETERNAL

  DWELLINGS


  v11 So, if you have NOT been trustworthy in handling worldly

wealth,   WHO will trust you with TRUE RICHES?


    we know the true RICHES are the eternal spiritual truths of

God. We KNOW you can NOT buy the Holy spirit[ex; Peter

rebuked man who attempted just that] IT IS A FREE GIFT THAT

 GOD GIVES TO THOSE THAT HAVE THE PROPER MINDSET OF

ANY WORLDLY WEALTHS PLACE OR FUNCTION ......


and.....just as those who have had money were generous and used it for the interest of those in want or need.....

  SO  TOO  THOSE GOD HAVE BLESSED WITH SPIRITUAL RICHES

 SHARE GENEROUSLY WITH OTHERS IN WANT....

   If you would not charge a person for putting clothing on the

naked or give them food or water...SO TOO, you have no

charging someone who is generous with the TRUE

TREASURES OF THE SPIRIT...THAT CLOTHE OTHERS IN

SALVATION,FEED OTHERS WITH THE WORDS AND PROMISES OF

 GOD,HEAL THEM OF PAST WOUNDS CAUSED BY ERRORS AND

SIN, WHO BUILD UP OTHERS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST...who

generously share the free gift given to them with others.


   The Heart does not say to the mouth,eyes,mind,ears, hands

feet....cease to function! you only need to have love in your

 heart. I AM THE ONLY NECESSARY BODY PART!!  Brain! I need

you not! I need not understanding!!only LOVE!! Eyes do not

serve me! Mouth do not speak what you see!Hands be still!

 feet do not walk..mind seize to direct the feet and hands!


   The heart does not cut off the blood[the life is in the blood]

 to the other body parts. BUT...GENEROUSLY FEEDS AND

NOURISHES THE BODY...to strengthen and cause to grow in

knowledge and stature and function


   A tree and its fruit  Luke 6;4   The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart the mouth speaks

  1Cor 14;  Gifts of Prophecy and tongues

  22 Tongues then,are a sign,not for beleivers but for unbeleivers

  Prophecy,however, is for beleivers,not for unbeleivers

  So, if the whole church comes togather and everyone speaks in

 tongues,and some who do Not understandd or some

 unbeleivers come in, WILL THEY NOT SAY THAT YOU ARE OUT

OF YOUR MIND?

  But if an unbeleiver or someone who does not understand

comes in while everyone is prophecying, he will be convinced by

that he is a sinner,and will be judged by all, AND THE SECRETS

HIS HEART WILL BE LAID BARE..So He will fall down and

worship God, exclaiming, 'GOD IS REALLY AMONG YOU!"


  Rev 20;10  and I fell at his feet to worship him, and he said ,'

  see thou do it not!! I AM thy fellow servant, and of thy

brethern that have the testimony of JESUS; WORSHIP GOD

For the testimony of Jesus Is the spirit of Prophesy

  ACTS 19;....there he found some disciples and asked

 them, 'Did you receive the Holy spirit when you beleived?'

  They answered ;'No, we have not even heard that there IS a

holy spirit' Then Paul said, 'Then what baptism did you receive?"

  John's baptism they replied.  Paul said ,' John's baptism was a

 baptism of repentance. He told the people to BELEIVE IN THE

ONE COMING AFTER HIM, that is, IN JESUS.  ON HEARING THIS

THEY WERE BAPTISED INTO THE NAME OF THE LORD

JESUS.  WHEN PAUL PLACED HIS HANDS ON THEM, THE HOLY

SPIRIT CAME ON THEM, AND THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES[sign for

 un-beleivers] AND PROPHESIED [beleivers]
  

Offline rosered

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2009, 04:47:12 PM »
  wow ! this is Awesome  sis ,
 
  and gets right to the  point
  why so many are disheartened and grow cold ...
 
  that spirit of fear that works in the religious  mindsets  always
 doubts it is the Lord  God working  in others and they some how are "all right with God "
 
 
 
   
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline sheila

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2009, 04:53:02 PM »
   the ONLY sacrifice and WORKS that survive are JESUS

   CHRISTS...The works DONE in HIS NAME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARE THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE PERFECT WORKS....

  Because...they GLORIFY GOD..not any person...it is the same

as trying to justify yourself by your own righteousness,,instead

of accepting the righteousness of God.

  Is the atheists knee bent to Jesus Christ? No, not as long as

he is in a state of unbeleif...But he will be changed.

  It is not love in a worldly sense that we speak of..BUT THE

 LOVE OF GOD IN IT'S TRUE SPIRITUAL SENSE...THAT WILL

SAVE ALL MEN REGARDLESS OF ANY STATE THEY ARE IN


  what part of ALL MEN HAVE FALLEN SHORT IS NOT

UNDERSTOOD? You will hold up as an example to the body

 an unbeleiver[atheist] as an example of someone righteous on

 their own merit? Why not hold up Paul instead..as a man who

openly confessed his unbeleif and ignorance while seeking to

attain his own righteousness,til he was changed..and then

accepted the righteous of God in Jesus Christ. REPENTED..

Considered his own works as dung..and accepted the free gift of

 salvation through Christ and received the Holy spirit..and

testified accordingly

Offline sparrow

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 07:31:45 PM »

Quote
the ONLY sacrifice and WORKS that survive are JESUS

   CHRISTS...The works DONE in HIS NAME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARE THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE PERFECT WORKS....

  Because...they GLORIFY GOD..not any person...it is the same

as trying to justify yourself by your own righteousness,,instead

of accepting the righteousness of God.

  Is the atheists knee bent to Jesus Christ? No, not as long as

he is in a state of unbeleif...But he will be changed.

  It is not love in a worldly sense that we speak of..BUT THE

 LOVE OF GOD IN IT'S TRUE SPIRITUAL SENSE...THAT WILL

SAVE ALL MEN REGARDLESS OF ANY STATE THEY ARE IN


  what part of ALL MEN HAVE FALLEN SHORT IS NOT

UNDERSTOOD? You will hold up as an example to the body

 an unbeleiver[atheist] as an example of someone righteous on

 their own merit?
 


Sheila, I think you may be, quite possibly misunderstanding what I am saying. This has happened to me before when talking about this. Some folks don't seem to understand what exactly it is that I am saying.  :HeartThrob:

I have never said anything about people's good works saving them. That is not what I am talking about at all. I DID say "everyone's knee would bow and every tongue WILL CONFESS Jesus Christ is Lord!"

This has not a thing to do with with people's own righteousness or whatever.

I am talking about LOVE. LOVE ENDURES. LOVE NEVER ENDS!!

If it is LOVE in a person's heart , even an ATHEIST's heart who professes NOT to believe in God yet they, out of PURE love in their heart for their fellow human being (Love your neighbor as yourself), lifts up their fellow human being and sacrifices something, out of LOVE to help them, not for any self serving reasons, but out of genuine love in their heart, then do you NOT SEE that that LOVE is FROM GOD? and that LOVE will ENDURE. And will NEVER END?  :HeartThrob:

Are these people NOT doing these things in God's name? What is God's name?
Doesn't it say that God is LOVE??

I think folks are missing the whole, entire POINT.

I am not sure what you mean by this: "the only sacrifice and works that survive are Jesus Christs, the words done in His name by the Holy Spirit are the ONLY acceptable perfect works because they GLORFIY GOD... not any person".

Does an atheist..... who pushes away the false image of God that has been taught to them, yet cultivates LOVE and compassion and all of the other fruits of the spirit in their heart, (remember GOD IS LOVE) do you really think that a person like this, who KNOWS and SEEKS love, yet rejects only the false picture of a sadistic God, whose only ignorance is not understanding that God is GOOD, who would lay down their life for their neighbor, do you HONESTLY not understand that this person may actually understand FAR MORE about God than your average Christian, but they just don't know it yet? They just haven't put two and two together? What is LOVE will REMAIN. It will NOT be destroyed.

No one is saying that a person's "good works" is going to save them. That is not what this is about AT ALL.  :HeartThrob:

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The human beings themselves will not go into "eternal punishment" but it is those works they did or did not do out of wrong motivation of heart. Things that were not done out of love at all. These things will be destroyed because they are nothing. Ugly nothingness. Whereas, what is of love will endure. Love never ends. On the other hand, the atheists "unbelief" will ALSO be destroyed! Because HE will NOW believe. People will see what they did (professing it was out of love) yet knowing it was NOT out of love, will see those things destroyed. When encountered with TRUE love, (through God) those things will most certainly be burned off and destroyed. They will know the error of their ways. Just as the atheist will then know the error of their ways in thinking there was no God! We're all learning what we need to learn. Don't think we won't. All of our dross will be removed. This is a good thing.


There are those who know God in their minds but not in their hearts.
There are those who do NOT know God in their minds but actually DO know Him IN their hearts.

I firmly believe that EVERY KNEE WILL BOW and these two groups of people will serve as a lesson for ALL. ALL are God's children. Good works do not save a person. I never said that. Nor did I say they were a substition for Jesus!! What I am saying, is that God has a plan for each person. What is LOVE will never end. Love endures. God SEES the heart. Some understand what God is about FAR more than they actually realize. While others who think they understand God, don't know very much about Him at ALL.

ALL of this is going to serve a grand purpose. In teaching us ALL more about GOD, More about LOVE. That is the whole point we are here on this earth, in my opinion.
Like I said, God works in mysterious ways. Am I saying that it's ok for the athiest to not believe? OF course not! But GOD WILL USE EVERYONE'S LIFE to teach us ALL something.
There is nothing we can do to escape His love. And His love is playing out in different ways in each and every person on this beautiful earth. We may not see the whole picture now, we may only see threads here and there of the beautiful, PERFECT tapestry He is weaving, but one day we will ALL SEE, and will ALL understand and will ALL cling to Him forever.

peace.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 07:35:54 PM by sparrow »
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2009, 08:19:22 PM »
  the ONLY sacrifice and WORKS that survive are JESUS

   CHRISTS...The works DONE in HIS NAME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARE THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE PERFECT WORKS....

  Because...they GLORIFY GOD..not any person...it is the same

as trying to justify yourself by your own righteousness,,instead

of accepting the righteousness of God.

  Is the atheists knee bent to Jesus Christ? No, not as long as

he is in a state of unbeleif...But he will be changed.

  It is not love in a worldly sense that we speak of..BUT THE

 LOVE OF GOD IN IT'S TRUE SPIRITUAL SENSE...THAT WILL

SAVE ALL MEN REGARDLESS OF ANY STATE THEY ARE IN


  what part of ALL MEN HAVE FALLEN SHORT IS NOT

UNDERSTOOD? You will hold up as an example to the body

 an unbeleiver[atheist] as an example of someone righteous on

 their own merit? Why not hold up Paul instead..as a man who

openly confessed his unbeleif and ignorance while seeking to

attain his own righteousness,til he was changed..and then

accepted the righteous of God in Jesus Christ. REPENTED..

Considered his own works as dung..and accepted the free gift of

 salvation through Christ and received the Holy spirit..and

testified accordingly

I think God is teaching me lately this very thing.  I'm getting it a little bit.  That even my praying or loving others, or even loving Him, is Him working through me.  All my "works" are as filthy rags.  It's my obedience and "cooperation" of His Spirit moving through me that I'm responsible for - and He even enables that, LOL.  So, without Him, I'm pretty helpless  :mblush:

I've been reminded of a scripture (don't remember where it is) about us using our own hands to add to His works, and that that is rejected.  It's that pressing into His rest, i.e., learning how to trust Him, be open to Him just working through us - because only His works will stand.  Now, I'll probably still struggle with this, because I'm used to struggling and "trying to be good".  And I'm not advocating "not being good" - as in disobedient and living like the devil.  But I believe it's submitting to Him, surrendering to Him, as He does the good through us.

Any comments or help with this?

Barry DuPont

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 08:42:21 PM »
   the ONLY sacrifice and WORKS that survive are JESUS

   CHRISTS...The works DONE in HIS NAME BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARE THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE PERFECT WORKS....

  Because...they GLORIFY GOD..not any person...it is the same

as trying to justify yourself by your own righteousness,,instead

of accepting the righteousness of God.

  Is the atheists knee bent to Jesus Christ? No, not as long as

he is in a state of unbeleif...But he will be changed.

  It is not love in a worldly sense that we speak of..BUT THE

 LOVE OF GOD IN IT'S TRUE SPIRITUAL SENSE...THAT WILL

SAVE ALL MEN REGARDLESS OF ANY STATE THEY ARE IN


  what part of ALL MEN HAVE FALLEN SHORT IS NOT

UNDERSTOOD? You will hold up as an example to the body

 an unbeleiver[atheist] as an example of someone righteous on

 their own merit? Why not hold up Paul instead..as a man who

openly confessed his unbeleif and ignorance while seeking to

attain his own righteousness,til he was changed..and then

accepted the righteous of God in Jesus Christ. REPENTED..

Considered his own works as dung..and accepted the free gift of

 salvation through Christ and received the Holy spirit..and

testified accordingly

I think God is teaching me lately this very thing.  I'm getting it a little bit.  That even my praying or loving others, or even loving Him, is Him working through me.  All my "works" are as filthy rags.  It's my obedience and "cooperation" of His Spirit moving through me that I'm responsible for - and He even enables that, LOL.  So, without Him, I'm pretty helpless  :mblush:

I've been reminded of a scripture (don't remember where it is) about us using our own hands to add to His works, and that that is rejected.  It's that pressing into His rest, i.e., learning how to trust Him, be open to Him just working through us - because only His works will stand.  Now, I'll probably still struggle with this, because I'm used to struggling and "trying to be good".  And I'm not advocating "not being good" - as in disobedient and living like the devil.  But I believe it's submitting to Him, surrendering to Him, as He does the good through us.

Any comments or help with this?

Love without condition.
Then it's all God and not us trying to prove ourselves through insecurity.

When we put up conditions for love then we cannot fully or perfectly or more completely love self (as God does indeed love us). [When the perfect comes we know as we are known]
People don't do bad things because they don't try hard enough.
People do bad things because they are insecure.

When we love ourselves, then we become less self centered.
To some perhaps counter intuitive. But that is how it works.
We love him because he first loved us.

We then love us.

The law could never work. "Love your neighbor as yourself" No one could come to love self to first then love another.
Its truth and grace that works.
JMO of course.
Barry


Offline Molly

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2009, 08:43:26 PM »
Quote
Any comments or help with this?

Amen.  That's why it's rest--He does all the work lol.  That's why he says--

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


When we are yoked together with him, he does all the pulling.

Offline jabcat

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 08:46:25 PM »
Quote
Any comments or help with this?

Amen.  That's why it's rest--He does all the work lol.  That's why he says--

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


When we are yoked together with him, he does all the pulling.

 :bigGrin:

Offline Molly

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 09:01:17 PM »
Quote
Any comments or help with this?

Amen.  That's why it's rest--He does all the work lol.  That's why he says--

Matthew 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


When we are yoked together with him, he does all the pulling.

 :bigGrin:

 :bigGrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiv8LdiSaiE

Offline sheila

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 09:24:08 PM »
 well Sparrow, I do feel somewhat reassured of your position

from what your post states. But love is not easily

offended...and  Christ states...Blessed are those who are NOT

 offended in me.   And while compassion and love shown to a

fellow man is  'in part' LOVE OF GOD is also part, and both

make up the whole. ROYAL LAW OF LOVE...and one without the

other is lacking and falling short...and therefore I recommend

that which is FULL in Christ..both LOVE of the Father and Love

of mankind.  And using the same measure, those that say they

love God and do hate their fellow man LIE...as do those who

say they love their fellow man and do hate God..lie...for Love

 and truth go hand in hand


   He who has done to the LEAST ONE OF THESE THAT

   BELEIVE IN ME..has done unto me...now, shouldn't we as

beleivers be doing good even unto those that are our 'enemies'

as it pertains unto Christ....is that not higher.?


   Sorry, any 'works' not done by faith..is inadequate..as so

any works NOT done out of a spirit of love.

   For the SPIRIT OF GOD THAT BETROTHS is ....

  justice[all men bound to disobediance,falling short] mercy

[saved through Jesus Christ] Love[of God shown through Christ]

righteousness[through faith in His son] and FaithFULLness.


   Anything less is Not the spirit of God and falls short every

time.  WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD

   For God stated ' This is my son,in whom I AM WELL PLEASED,

   LISTEN TO HIM  

so how can you reckon that God is pleased by any less than

 what He has stated...for did he NOT say....even the wicked

love those who love them....and this...if you, though being

wicked,KNOW HOW TO GIVE GOOD GIFTS TO YOUR CHILDREN,

 HOW MUCH MORE YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN WILL GIVE THE

 HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ASK HIM?

  So, then, do the wicked give good gifts, love after a fashion?

  for even the wicked love those who love them..

  what makes them wicked then...just this....


   Hebrews 3;12   Warning AGAINST UNBELEIF



    SEE TO IT ,BROTHERS, THAT NONE OF YOU HAS A SINFUL

     UNBELEIVING HEART THAT TURNS AWAY FROM THE LIVING

                                      GOD... note it does NOT say..turn

        away from an idol

   now, you will say they stumbled over sinful men that held a false image of God, well, if they did not beleive the false image and rejected it,as presented by sinful men....why instead did they just not reject the sinful image and accept God..knowing that HE WAS AND IS...but Not as presented...

   I, too, as well as others, have been presented with sinful images of God...let EVERY MAN BE A LIAR AND GOD ALONE BE TRUE.....

   we must each receive a measure of faith..to beleive in God

   what is FAITH IN GOD?  BELEIVING WHAT HE SAYS

  and He says 'Listen to my son, in Him I am well pleased"


   Yes, LOVE ENDURES   it does NOT fail or FALL SHORT...and

again,I recommend the LOVE OF GOD SHOWN THROUGH JESUS

CHRIST....that does Not FALL SHORT


   Rev 21;8  BUT the cowardly, the UNBELEIVING, the VILE,

 the murders, the sexually immoral, those who practice majic

arts the idolaters-and all liars- their place will be in the feiry

 lake of burning sulpher. THIS IS THE SECOUND DEATH


  you can not condemn the liars and justify the unbeleivers

  their all in the same boat!! they do not enter into His rest

        Do the wicked love? sure, but mostly themselves..they

 can say' see, I AM GOOD...I LOVE MEN...I can deny there is a

 God who made me...and still be a good

person,moral,kind,generous..see..I don't need God for anything.
.
who will condemn me for my goodness.?.only an evil God..more

evil then me..would dare to censor me ..just because I denied

Him?  Who is God that I should serve Him? That I should owe

Him anything? There is no God..you people that put faith in him

 are fools

   they are blinded by the prince of this world.....and someday

will be apprehended and meet this God that they denied...

and then they will no longer be able to deny Him. Their vail will

be lifted...BECAUSE HIS LOVE IS GREATER THAN THEIR

BLINDNESS....then...they WILL PRAISE HIS LOVE and will

 confess Jesus Christ.


   So, NO, the atheist works will be burnt up in the Lake of

Fire,as the above scripture in Rev testifies. And Jesus Christ

work of salvation for ALL men per His sacrifice will be applied

unto him....and a new spirit and a new heart will be given him


   Sorry, his love failed also,fell far short,of the Glory of God

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 09:28:12 PM »
Thanks Molly! That was refreshing and relaxing. Handel was certainly a gifted man!

Blessings,
Brian

Offline sparrow

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Re: 1 Cor. 3:15
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 09:34:27 PM »
Sister Sheila, with all due respect... From what you have said in your post, I know that you really do not see what I am saying. You are either misunderstanding me, or perhaps you don't get what I'm saying because I think you are seeing it from a certain perspective and there's not much I can do to change your perspective to get you to see what I'm actually saying.

I'll just say.... remember, do not call "good" evil.
LOVE will endure.
Love never ends.
God is LOVE.
What is really "LOVE" is FROM God.
And nowhere else.
HE is the source.
No matter what a person proclaims to believe or not believe at this MOMENT in time in their lives.... What is LOVE is from the SOURCE. God.
Nothing will change that.

peace to you, friend.

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.