Author Topic: "Missions"  (Read 3489 times)

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Offline Doc

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"Missions"
« on: February 17, 2009, 09:18:17 PM »
I realize that this topic possibly belongs in "ministry in foreign lands", but I'm posting it here for reasons you'll understand as you continue reading this post. The first reason I've chosen to post it here, is because I've noticed the above mentioned board has one post in the sole topic on that section of the boards, courtesy of Martin, so I wasn't sure it would even be seen if I posted it there.

That (in part) leads me to my question. I've been on tentmaker for awhile now, including some "lurking" before I actually joined the board, and I've not really seen much (if any) discussion on "missions". So here's my question: as URists, are missions important to you? If so, how does one define "missions" as a URist? (What do they look like?). I know folks like Gerry Beauchemin (universalist and author of Hope Beyond Hell) have been actively involved in missions for some time, but I'm not really seeing it discussed here and am curious to find out why.

Part of the reason I ask is that one criticism I've heard leveled at universalism, is that it causes people to ignore or downplay the importance of "missions". (In fact, as I've mentioned on a few other threads, our pastor did a four-week sermon series against universalism this last summer); One of the charges he brought against universalism was the fact that the CBFMS (conservative baptist foreign missions society) was formed as a response to the Northern Baptists (whom they were in missions partnership with at one time) when the NB's went universalist: They brought all their missionaries home because "everyone is going to be saved anyway". What is now the conservative baptists said, "no, we believe the lost are really lost" (meaning the ET/ES definition of lost), and separated from them, forming what was then the CBFMS. (Not sure what it's called now).

Your input is appreciated.


P.S. I have a copy of his introductory sermon for the four week series on a CD somewhere, assuming I can find it. I could probably figure out how to transfer the data to my computer and e-mail the file to anyone who would be interested in hearing what he had to say (for purposes of picking it apart). They were honestly the worst sermons I've ever heard him do. It was interesting, because when I heard it announced that he was going to talk about it, I thought; "OK Lord, if somehow I've been duped and fallen into error by misreading your Holy Spirit, and this UR thing really is a false gospel, then use this sermon series to show me". I realized when I heard the first sermon, that far from convincing me otherwise, it merely served to strengthen my belief that UR is the biblical position. Anything that wasn't a blatant emotional appeal, was badly misused scripture out of context that I'd already seen refuted "six ways to Sunday" many times in my two year study of the topic up to that point.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

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Offline onlytruth

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 09:39:27 PM »
when we go on "missions" are we there to convert or to love on people.i keep thinking what jesus did; heal the sick ,feed the poor take care of the widow...i beleive we are to love above anything else.
personally we work with a number of orphanages around the world.while people are on this earth lets"save" them from the ravages of everyday life.
blessings :icon_king:

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 09:47:17 PM »
when we go on "missions" are we there to convert or to love on people.i keep thinking what jesus did; heal the sick ,feed the poor take care of the widow...i beleive we are to love above anything else.
personally we work with a number of orphanages around the world.while people are on this earth lets"save" them from the ravages of everyday life.
blessings :icon_king:

Good points. Any other thoughts anyone?
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline sven

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 10:02:09 PM »
I try in a forum to take away the fear of hell and to present christianity in a better light.

I think the first German missionaries were Pietists who rejected the doctrine of eternal punishment

Offline claypot

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 10:30:09 PM »
Who needs a missionary more, those in mental darkness or those in spiritual ignorance?

By believing the truth about God one is a missionary whether he or she wants to be or not.

Hey Doc, maybe you could give a definition of a missionary?

You got good questions.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 10:58:19 PM »
Who needs a missionary more, those in mental darkness or those in spiritual ignorance?

By believing the truth about God one is a missionary whether he or she wants to be or not.

Hey Doc, maybe you could give a definition of a missionary?

You got good questions.

cp


Thanks, cp. I think I have a definition of "missionary" in my head, but I wanted to see what others had as their definition . That's actually an underlying question of my post: Given UR, just what is a missionary anyway? What 'should' they look like? What 'should' they do? How do we present the victorious gospel in a meaningful way? (Even aside from teaching doctrine). Someone already mentioned working with orphanages. That's great.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Online sheila

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 01:35:40 AM »
  Hi Doc;

    I really think the Holy Spirit needs to speak on this matter.

    Jesus and the Holy spirit did not hesitate to speak about it

    in the past.

        I have not received any "word" on a mission.

      I was instructed to sit on a certain forum...which I did.

     I try and share what I have, whether spiritual or physical.

      with anyone who is open to it

         I was told let the dead bury the dead..follow me

       Rev 22;10  Let him who does wrong,continue to do wrong;

     let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does

right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to

   be holy...

                Now, if He would tell me different..of course I would



     Babylyon pretty well has the 'charitable works' covered

     and receives her reward 'tax exempt status from beast'

   He said not to do charitable works with acclaims etc.

    Do these things secreately...so Father will reward us.

     

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 01:44:53 AM »
  Hi Doc;

    I really think the Holy Spirit needs to speak on this matter.

    Jesus and the Holy spirit did not hesitate to speak about it

    in the past.

        I have not received any "word" on a mission.

      I was instructed to sit on a certain forum...which I did.

     I try and share what I have, whether spiritual or physical.

      with anyone who is open to it

         I was told let the dead bury the dead..follow me

       Rev 22;10  Let him who does wrong,continue to do wrong;

     let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does

right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to

   be holy...

                Now, if He would tell me different..of course I would



     Babylyon pretty well has the 'charitable works' covered

     and receives her reward 'tax exempt status from beast'

   He said not to do charitable works with acclaims etc.

    Do these things secreately...so Father will reward us.

     

Interesting, sheila.

How should the gospel be spread? One on one as God gives direction, or should we follow the model of the apostles where they preached to larger groups. Or both?
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline onlytruth

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 01:51:59 AM »
when we spread the gospel with no strings attached-people will clamour to listen.jesus had to get into a boat to get away.the crowds will come
blessings :icon_king:

Online sheila

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 01:58:29 AM »

  Well, I can only say what I see Him doing,now.

   Just as He has drawn us..to where we are..and grouped us

   togather..in association like He has..that HE WILL ADD

   and cause it to grow by His spirit.

  
    He said He would cause those of the synogogue of satan to

   come and  fall down at our feet..and acknowledge that

  I have loved you. I think He has to do it with His spirit..

   the revealing...we can preach all day long and get

  nowhere,otherwise .  It is Him doing the previous that will

  quicken anything we say to them

   He called us out of Babylon..He must call them,also

   those He draws to us..will be added.

  we are so scattered at present..all over the globe...


   Paul was born prematurely...so if any were to go on missions

  in this age..it would be like Paul..they would support

   themselves through their own means.

Offline peacemaker

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 07:57:36 AM »
Feed the hungry, house the stranger, care for the fatherless, give drink to him who is thirsty. We are to be His Hands and Feet, yet, there are many who go nowhere and hand out nothing, even in the areas where they live. 

The wife :peckblush: set up separate accounts to assist others in need, both; physically and spiritually.
But hey, it's just my thoughts for now, and back to work I go.

It many cases, it takes only time.

peacemaker

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 09:17:49 PM »
Thanks, all. And thanks specifically for the clarification, sheila.  :thumbsup:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Online sheila

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 09:35:52 PM »

   Your welcome,Doc.


       Whats your thought on the matter?


                                 Sheila

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 09:50:13 PM »

   Your welcome,Doc.


       Whats your thought on the matter?


                                 Sheila


Well, I agree with everything I've seen here. I just mainly wanted to see if what I was thinking was along the lines of what the Spirit has revealed to the rest of you. If you look at the ministries of Jesus and the apostles, they don't really look much like what the mainstream church defines as missions these days.

Since we all have an understanding of UR that has changed our perceptions on the realities of many things including ministry/ missions, I was trying to determine if what I felt the Spirit has been subtly revealing to me jives with the views of this community.


What do you all think of our pastor's comments and the response of the Northern Baptists?
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Online sheila

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 10:21:05 PM »


   Well, it may appear as a 'nonchalant 'attitude  to some.

   But ,I am not 'unconcerned' for those in darkness in this

   earth. Even though their eternal salvation is assured


    Things are really heating up in the world,and hard

   -ships often make people seek God.But really, Iseek not to

   start some other 'religious worship' system...But to comfort

   people with the Love of God..and instill hope when they feel

   hopeless.and build up in faith in God

   Personally, I 'feel' that God may strengthen many people

   through us as times get harder and harder...with His spirit

   manifesting in many different ways.


   Jesus stated in Rev to the church in Philedelpia...those of the

   the synagog of satan would KNOW THAT I HAVE LOVED YOU

    I take that to mean, many of the eternal torment

   condemnation group would come to realize this...and

  in a way that they know it is of Jesus and the Holy spirit.

     Of course,it can also be fulfilled when they rise to heaven

   and are sanctified there, learning that God loves all

mankind..even those who they formerly beleived were

 condemned and that they condemned in their heart.


   I guess we will have to see what He does about it.


   He would have to miraculously restore health to a lot of us

  before we could even physically go on 'sent' missions.And

  many of us are poor.

   The internet is a good place for seekers,also. It is how

   I came to the knowledge of it,after following His Spirit


   I see you as a very contemplative man,Doc. With much

   quiet  meditation on the things of the Spirit. Always

   respect your thoughts on things.


                                         Sheila


Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 11:07:16 PM »
Thanks, sheila. And you're right, I am very contemplative, although sometimes that gets me in trouble because I'm not practical enough on the other side of things... :laughing7:

But thank you, and I appreciate the thought and Spirit in your words as well.  :thumbsup:
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Online sheila

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 11:35:02 PM »


   Well, I can't say practicality is a strong point of mine,either :mblush:

   Did you ever hear of that old saying...

    'he's so heavenly minded that he's no earthly good"? :grin:

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2009, 02:31:40 AM »


   Well, I can't say practicality is a strong point of mine,either :mblush:

   Did you ever hear of that old saying...

    'he's so heavenly minded that he's no earthly good"? :grin:

LOL. :laughing7: Yes, I have, and I even thought about putting it in my post...

Here's a quote for you, from this article that I just read today:

http://www.sigler.org/Gospel%20of%20Grace.pdf

"A lot of people living out of the Adamic
consciousness, wanting so badly to be godly,
sometimes think they hear God speak. Perhaps they
have a desire, let's say, to be a foreign missionary.
In the religious circles, if you want to be a foreign
missionary you must go out and raise the funds for
your itinerary. Ishmael always thinks he has to help
God along. Carnal thinking says, "God wants me to
go, but I have to raise the money." You only have to
raise the money if it is your will you are doing and
not God's.
If God tells me to go to Africa tomorrow,
the money will be in my hands to go. We have not
learned to live by His life. Everything that He asks
you to do, you just do it and He provides."
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

martincisneros

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2009, 02:54:40 AM »
Lord Jesus jerked my chain on that one QUICK when I nearly got into the sinfully damnable apathy of many UR folks on the subject.  The ETers were never wrong about much beyond the subject of ETERNAL Hell.  My evangelistic endeavors have increased over a hundred thousand fold since coming into UR, but unfortunately most UR folks don't share my Lord's heart so I have little to talk with many UR folks about all that's been going on in my share of Jesus's ministry.  I'd put what I do in reaching out to seek and save the lost against anybody, ETer or anybody you can think of.  It's not do that or help widows, orphans, the starving, the battered, etc. 

We've got to do absolutely all of it, including offering indepth teaching up to and inclusive of the level that the masses of Christians, including Universalists, are able to come up to the level of.  I never go beyond what any healthy spiritual baby in Christ would be able to grow into, whether online or elsewhere.  I've written countless tracts that are similar to the 4 spiritual laws tracts put out by Campus Crusade For Christ and I don't hesitate to even pass out those 4 spiritual laws tracts 'cause they don't violate UR on a single point in asserting that:

1. God has a wonderful plan for people's lives;
2. Something went wrong along the way;
3. Christ is the solution;
4. Life begins where the heart is open to Christ.

I was never able to do anything evangelistic while I believed in ET.  I was bottle necked by that Augustinian heresy, and when folks would even present themselves to me, totally unsolicited, ready to embrace the Lordship of Jesus, I had nothing to tell them while I was under that old paradigm.  The words weren't there, the thoughts weren't there.  Nothing would click.  Nothing would come together.  I couldn't come up with anything, even written.  I was scared to death that folks weren't going to make it while I was in the ET paradigm, but couldn't do anything about it and not for a lack of motivation.  But UR's a greater motivation and the inspiration is absolutely always there.  These days, wake me up out of a dead sleep and I can still pray with a crowd to surrender their lives to His Majesty.  But I have to wholeheartedly agree with Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and many, many of the other Church Fathers when it comes to the fruitfulness and especially the motivation level of many folks in the UR message: it would have been infinitely better for them to have never known that the flames do eventually go out and that the undying worms do eventually die.

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2009, 02:33:10 AM »
Lord Jesus jerked my chain on that one QUICK when I nearly got into the sinfully damnable apathy of many UR folks on the subject.  The ETers were never wrong about much beyond the subject of ETERNAL Hell.  My evangelistic endeavors have increased over a hundred thousand fold since coming into UR, but unfortunately most UR folks don't share my Lord's heart so I have little to talk with many UR folks about all that's been going on in my share of Jesus's ministry.  I'd put what I do in reaching out to seek and save the lost against anybody, ETer or anybody you can think of.  It's not do that or help widows, orphans, the starving, the battered, etc. 

We've got to do absolutely all of it, including offering indepth teaching up to and inclusive of the level that the masses of Christians, including Universalists, are able to come up to the level of.  I never go beyond what any healthy spiritual baby in Christ would be able to grow into, whether online or elsewhere.  I've written countless tracts that are similar to the 4 spiritual laws tracts put out by Campus Crusade For Christ and I don't hesitate to even pass out those 4 spiritual laws tracts 'cause they don't violate UR on a single point in asserting that:

1. God has a wonderful plan for people's lives;
2. Something went wrong along the way;
3. Christ is the solution;
4. Life begins where the heart is open to Christ.

I was never able to do anything evangelistic while I believed in ET.  I was bottle necked by that Augustinian heresy, and when folks would even present themselves to me, totally unsolicited, ready to embrace the Lordship of Jesus, I had nothing to tell them while I was under that old paradigm.  The words weren't there, the thoughts weren't there.  Nothing would click.  Nothing would come together.  I couldn't come up with anything, even written.  I was scared to death that folks weren't going to make it while I was in the ET paradigm, but couldn't do anything about it and not for a lack of motivation.  But UR's a greater motivation and the inspiration is absolutely always there.  These days, wake me up out of a dead sleep and I can still pray with a crowd to surrender their lives to His Majesty.  But I have to wholeheartedly agree with Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and many, many of the other Church Fathers when it comes to the fruitfulness and especially the motivation level of many folks in the UR message: it would have been infinitely better for them to have never known that the flames do eventually go out and that the undying worms do eventually die.

Well, I have to agree with everything you've said Martin, with the exception of the last sentence. I don't think it's ever appropriate for people not to be told the whole truth with regard to matters such as this. Particularly if what you said earlier is true: that UR is a stronger motivation to evangelize.

I do however, wish that those 4 spiritual laws tracts used different wording...
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Nathan

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2009, 05:01:32 PM »
Given the fact that many things in Scripture have a different perspective or spin on them than most traditionalists choose to understand . . .the idea that we should pull out our troops just cuz everyone is going to heaven in the end anyway . . .is a terrible disservice to those who are truly called.

For those who are adamant that we are "supposed" to all be missionaries . .and if we're not, then we should support those that are . . .because the Bible says . . .fill in the blank.  For "those" types, I do have issues because they're basing their ideals on shoddy understanding of the Scriptures.  The gospel has already reached the ends of the earth . . it was addressed in Acts . . .the world was turned upside down "then". 

For me, there's a balance to everything.  If someone feels the call of God on their life to go to Africa . . . God bless 'em.  But if someone feels it's their "duty" to go . . . then I throw up the red flag.  I have a cousin who's very deep in missionary trips to India . .he has mind-blowing testimonies . . . he brings back videos . . .his family paid the price of a split in the middle of it all . . .he makes an average of 3 trips a year over there . .stays over there a month at a time . . .he's only a carpenter over here so it's not like he's loaded with money . .but that's his heart.  He stops by and visitis us, we take up offerings and send them . . . but he's not doing it out of duty, he's doing it because there is an unexplainable connection between him and those people thousands of miles away.

My heart is here . . .so this is where I bear my fruit.  I think it's pretty much an individual relationship with the Father that dictates whether one goes or stays.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2009, 06:36:56 PM »
 :cloud9: He sent me out on a trip once, and I can say that beforehand He dropped His love into me for those people that were a completely unknown quantity to me before that. It was a supernatural God kind of experience, it was like dropping a coin into a soda machine. One second it wasn't there, the next second it was, and then I got my "walking papers". He worked out the details, which were many and a near miracle in itself, and I left for another part of the country three hours after being told where to go. Those He sends, He equips.

For this reason, I think I experienced what it is truly like for GOD to send someone out, and I think that many times perhaps because one man got a call like that, and then later out of a heart of good intentions, he tried to set up a situation for others to go also, that were NOT called by God to go. This then, would be eating of the part of that which "looks good" of the tree.

So then there is no doubt in my mind that God does send people out still, but I also think that some are going that are not called, and don't realize it. So perhaps the body should pray that God's perfect will is manifested to those that are called, and those that are not. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2009, 10:31:27 PM »
:cloud9: He sent me out on a trip once, and I can say that beforehand He dropped His love into me for those people that were a completely unknown quantity to me before that. It was a supernatural God kind of experience, it was like dropping a coin into a soda machine. One second it wasn't there, the next second it was, and then I got my "walking papers". He worked out the details, which were many and a near miracle in itself, and I left for another part of the country three hours after being told where to go. Those He sends, He equips.

For this reason, I think I experienced what it is truly like for GOD to send someone out, and I think that many times perhaps because one man got a call like that, and then later out of a heart of good intentions, he tried to set up a situation for others to go also, that were NOT called by God to go. This then, would be eating of the part of that which "looks good" of the tree.

So then there is no doubt in my mind that God does send people out still, but I also think that some are going that are not called, and don't realize it. So perhaps the body should pray that God's perfect will is manifested to those that are called, and those that are not. Blessings....

Card, you're words are powerful to me!  I agree with you . . .many people go that are not called, but are nudged, convinced, guilted, it's almost as if the "ministry" becomes the god rather than God being in the ministry.

The other piece to this whole missions thing that sort of concerns me is that because of the costs . . . it kind of takes on a life of it's own which is based and bound on money rather than reproduction.  For me, this entire message of freedom and life should be based more on relationships . . .Paul built relationships in his mission trips . . .he returned as often as his calendar would allow him.  He had a repore with the pastors he was fathering.

Anymore, the speaker comes in . . .thousands gather . . .the speaker leaves . .and now, the land is full of infants needing a parent when what they end up with are mentors.  People who may have the ability to train, but they don't have the same dna as the person who came and birthed these masses.  It becomes more about numbers and physical manifestations than relationship . . .

Offline Doc

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2009, 01:13:57 AM »
Given the fact that many things in Scripture have a different perspective or spin on them than most traditionalists choose to understand . . .the idea that we should pull out our troops just cuz everyone is going to heaven in the end anyway . . .is a terrible disservice to those who are truly called.

For those who are adamant that we are "supposed" to all be missionaries . .and if we're not, then we should support those that are . . .because the Bible says . . .fill in the blank.  For "those" types, I do have issues because they're basing their ideals on shoddy understanding of the Scriptures.  The gospel has already reached the ends of the earth . . it was addressed in Acts . . .the world was turned upside down "then". 

For me, there's a balance to everything.  If someone feels the call of God on their life to go to Africa . . . God bless 'em.  But if someone feels it's their "duty" to go . . . then I throw up the red flag.  I have a cousin who's very deep in missionary trips to India . .he has mind-blowing testimonies . . . he brings back videos . . .his family paid the price of a split in the middle of it all . . .he makes an average of 3 trips a year over there . .stays over there a month at a time . . .he's only a carpenter over here so it's not like he's loaded with money . .but that's his heart.  He stops by and visitis us, we take up offerings and send them . . . but he's not doing it out of duty, he's doing it because there is an unexplainable connection between him and those people thousands of miles away.

My heart is here . . .so this is where I bear my fruit.  I think it's pretty much an individual relationship with the Father that dictates whether one goes or stays.

I appreciate both your comments and Cardinal's as well. Good insights, guys.

It was kind of interesting; I did a bit of research, and found out that our pastor seems to have misrepresented the situation. The Northern baptists weren't even called that by the time the split happened, they were called the American Baptist Convention. The actual disagreement was over liberalism and conservatism in theology; Issues mentioned were the deity of Jesus, the virgin birth and the literal (physical) resurrection of Jesus. The American baptists were sending out missionaries, it was just that the conservative faction was concerned that those missionaries weren't being evangelical enough due to their theological liberalism, and because the American baptist convention would not allow a competing mission organization within its organization, the conservative baptists split off and formed the CBFMS. It had nothing to do with universalism.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

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martincisneros

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Re: "Missions"
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2009, 06:22:46 AM »
Nathan, if you told your friend that he has no sense of duty to go, then you'd probably have quite the argument on your hands.  And we are obligated to turn the world upside down in our day.  For one thing, many spin doctors are out there saying it never happened back then and that Christian history is a total fabrication.  Rather than to argue over each historical piece of minutia, we simply need to demonstrate absolutely all of the power of God to this crooked and perverse generation. 

The millenium is the universal triumph of the Gospel's message in every heart on earth, and if Christ didn't return to raise the living and the dead a thousand or even five hundred years ago for the judgment and then to bring in the New Earth, then very obviously what was done in the first couple of centuries of Christianity didn't suffice for what He had in mind for the Gospel into every nation before the end could come.  The end of Judaism came in the first century, but there's more than one end spoken of in Scripture.  Those that Paul addressed in Acts 17 didn't care anything about Judaism and some of them had likely never even heard of it.  Yet, he declared a global judgment to them rather than just a worldwide judgment to Israel's world.  The Gospel to all of the world is the message of commanding the surrender of every nation to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. 

And obviously the message transitions from that point, after one has repented, to one of discipleship and those that cleanse themselves according to 2Corinthians 7:1-2 and 2Timothy 2 will go on to great and glorious things in this life -- as Romans 2 says "immortality."  That immortality in Romans 2 is a bit different in context from elsewhere in the New Testament and very likely would be immortality in the sense that an Hercules, an Alexander the Great, Hannibal, Julius Caesar,  Napolean Bonaparte, or a St. Paul would understand it (i.e. something approximating military glory, whether natural or spiritual).  My reasoning is that in that context for those that are wanting such immortality, in that context alone of all of the passages of the New Testament, eonian life is said to be their reward rather than the akataluton life spoken of Christ in Hebrews 7.

Many things in the New Testament that are spoken to ministers or of ministers and their passion to get the Gospel out aren't necessarily applicable to the average believer down the street.  But don't minimize the "woe is me if I don't preach the Gospel" that genuine Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers, Bishops, Adminstrations, Gifts of Healings, and Workers of Miracles in the Body of Christ have.  If you honestly can't relate, then perhaps your calling is genuinely to the one talent.  But some of us, even with a UR consciousness, honestly feel we'll be totally consumed with the flames of Gehenna if we don't get this message out.  Not a fear, but a sense of good judgment that since we've weighed carefully as James says to in his epistle in the New Testament whether or not we're supposed to be teachers anyway.  And since some of us are, then we've got to watch which direction the wheel of nature is being turned, and whether our kindling is being properly used for the blessing and healing of any that are sick among us, or whether it's the flames of Gehenna that are reason for us to weep and howl as the book of James says because of our wealth that was set aside for the last days is becoming nothing because we bore no sense of responsibility for the praying that rain should come or not come that we were called to.