willieH: Hi my dear brother Seth!
A few comments... that you might consider bro...
Carefully stated, and no offense intended, just food for thought:
As far as Jesus goes, the idea that Satan was in Christ's mind is something I do not submit to. Christ was spiritually minded. Remember Paul's words in Romans 8 "For you are not in the flesh if it so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you." Jesus had the mind of his Father when he was tempted/tried. His flesh was completely subdued to the Spirit, which He was given without measure. When the Spirit is given WITHOUT MEASURE, your mind is completely removed from the flesh and you are therefore in heaven as you stand on earth.
The presence of YHVH
(divinity/Godhead), was indeed dwelling IN Him making Him thereby the SON of GOD, ...but was not ALL that He was... He was also the SON of MAN... which means that the presence of MAN was IN Him as well...JESUS
was a 2 fold being... He was SON of GOD, for YHVH
was His Father, so 100% of Him was DIVINE because of it... but,JESUS
was the SON of MAN as Mary was His Mother, so 100% of Him was human (MAN) because of this, as well...
I think people misuse the word "tempted" as being that Christ FELT temptation to lust after a woman, or betray his Father. The word "tempt" is the same word for "tried." Christ was tried/tested in all ways like us, yet without sin.
If He is so tempted (or "tried/tested" as you describe it)... AS
are we... then He had to experience the tuggings of TEMPTATION in the very SAME WAYS that we DO...
He could NOT be "tempted/tried/tested" by the potential LUST of a woman, unless indeed, it came upon Him... (or any other temptation which presents itself to man/woman)TEMPTATION
of itself is NOT SIN... It is the PROPOSAL of SINFUL behavior... and JESUS
OVERCAME the TEMPTATION
to give in to SINFUL behavior... which is WHY He is noted as an OVERCOMER...
If indeed it was NOT POSSIBLE for Him to SIN... then to state Him as "overcoming" TEMPTATION, is a sham...
was aligned with GOD and ONE with Him, was in His Heart and in His GENETICS... Aside from CHRIST
, ADAM and Eve... the rest of us are born of SINFUL parents... Mother AND Father...
In all ways, Christ was submitted to God, and his mind not in the flesh like ours is. We have not been given the Spirit without measure, which is why our minds are continually renewed.
I agree and disagree with this bro... His mind had to have been ABLE to succumb to SIN or He did not OVERCOME the TEMPTATION to do it...
Here's the deal... If GOD made temptation able to penetrate everything but STEEL and CHRIST
was STEEL ENCASED... then How could it be said He was TEMPTED? And how can it be said that He OVERCAME something that could NOT POSSIBLY penetrate Him? It could be said that He did not submit to Temptation, but it could not be said that He OVERCAME Temptation unless it was possible that IT could have OVERCAME Him...
Consider Romans 5, where it says that God's love is revealed in that a righteous man (Christ) died for the ungodly. If satan was in Christ's mind, then Christ had to die for Himself as much as for us, which destroys the principle of Love revealed at the Cross.
I think this is amiss... CHRIST
did not DIE to save men from temptation, ...he died for those who have FALLEN INTO IT... And He did so, by ENDURING TEMPTATION and SHUNNING its proposals... The PROPOSALS had to enter His mind, or He could not have ENDURED them...EXAMPLE: If I am an ALCOHOLIC and PRESENTLY there is NO ALCOHOL to drink, am I still PRESENTLY "TEMPTED" by it to drink IT even though there is NONE PRESENT? CHRIST
was TEMPTED, but SIN is only BORN when one INDULGES in the TEMPTATION which is OFFERED:James 1:15
-- THEN, when LUST HAS CONCIEVED, it bringeth forth SIN and SIN when it is finished bringeth forth death...
LUST (or TEMPTATION) must be ENGAGED
before LUST (desire) CONCIEVES (births) SIN... CHRIST
did not ENGAGE the TEMPTATION presented Him, as do we... He ABSTAINED and OVERCAME its urging...
Jesus Christ's mind was perfect and not in the flesh, because He was ONE with His father and undivided. Ok, so let's talk about the garden of Gethsemane, which always comes up to prove that Christ had a carnal mind opposed to God. That verse proves the opposite, that even if Jesus did not want to experience the coming cup, that in all ways his mind was submitted to God.
I see it as MAN wishing to AVOID DEATH... CHRIST
was still a MAN... and MEN will always make an effort to AVOID DEATH...
Do you know that the words being spoken by Jesus were the words of His Father through Him? His Father was causing him to speak those words, as admonitions to us, not to show a carnally minded Christ, which never existed. Christ had flesh, but the carnal nature is in the mind. Christ had the mind of God.
You are welcome dear brother to continue believing this, however... If CHRIST
indeed did not have the CARNAL urgings which WE DO... then He "OVERCAME" nothing...
The CARNAL nature is more than just the "mind" and its processings...
It is the LUST of the EYE
(as It "TEMPTS"), and the LUST of the FLESH
(as IT "TEMPTS") and the PRIDE of LIFE
(as IT "TEMPTS") -- 1 John 2:16
If you examine His "wilderness Temptation", all THREE of these were contained IN that presentation:
#1 -- Lust of the flesh
#2 -- Lust of the Eye
#3 -- Pride of LifeMatt 4:3-10 verse 3 -- and when the tempter came to him he said (#1) "if Thou be the Son of God, command these stones to be made breadverse 5-6 -- then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the temple, ...and saith unto Him, (#3) If Thou be the Son of God cast Thyself down for it is written He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest Thou dash Thy foot against a stoneverse 8-9 -- again the devil taketh Him up inot an exceeding high mountain and (#2) SHOWETH Him ALL the Kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them... and saith unto Him, all these things will I give Thee if Thou wilt fall down and worship me...
All these things combined
(#1, #2 & #3) are within the experience of the CARNAL NATURE... and CHRIST
had to have overcome them ALL via EXPERIENCING being TEMPTED OF EACH of THEM
(as are WE tempted of them), in order to call Him an OVERCOMER OF THEM
In the presentation to the FLESH
to change the rocks into food, JESUS
had to overcome the temptation to satisfy His body...
(2) in the presentation to the EYE
, in seeing them... JESUS
had to overcome the temptation of the GLORY of all the kingdoms of the world...
(3) and in presentation to His LIFE
, knowing the power of YHVH
had to overcome the temptation of (PRIDE of) LIFE to overcome and defer the temptation of God's saving measures to preserve His life...