Author Topic: YOU are Satan...  (Read 32300 times)

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trettep

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YOU are Satan...
« on: July 01, 2009, 09:20:47 PM »
I often get criticized for claiming that WE are Satan.  I don't mean literally that man is Satan but that our carnal nature IS indeed Satan.  I believe that "Satan" is a reference to that disobedience that is in us and has its source in us.  In other words I don't believe there is some OTHER ENTITY to blame the source of all evil on.  That source is born of man's heart.  I came to that conclusion when reading of the events in the Garden.  It became apparent to me that the Serpent was indeed Adam talking to Eve.    Let's consider a few things:

Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The word "subtil" is often translated as "prudent" or other more glowing terms in the King James version.  Remember, man is being made in God's image. 

Notice Eve's response to this question from the serpent:

Gen 3:2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Now if Eve is using the plural here of "we" then this means that the Serpent would have knowledge of Adam if indeed the Serpent is not Adam or that Adam is in the company of Eve when this is taking place.

Now notice carefully this verse a bit later:

Gen 3:6  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Notice the above.  It was important to include the words "with her".   Adam was with Eve when this was taking place.  But let's continue.

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Notice how Adam blames Eve.  Now why would Adam respond the way he did.  Of all the things Adam could have said he said "The woman whom thou gaves to be with me".   Think about this for a moment.  Adam would find no helpmeet for him and so God makes Eve from his side and gives Eve to Adam.  So my belief is that Adam (the serpent) is having concerns about taking the forbidden fruit.  He knows that is will make him to know good and evil and he knows that Eve was given to him from God.  So if he gets Eve to take of it and give to him then it looks like he is not at fault.

Let's jump ahead to Jeremiah:

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Above we learn about the heart of man.  Notice it says above ALL things.  Certaintly if Satan was a separate entity from man that he will still be part of "all things".  So this verse would be saying that man's heart is more wicked then Satan's heart if that was so.   It is logical to conclude that Satan is reference to the disobedience exhibition of man's heart and NOT some other entity that we can just blame for our own wrongdoing.  There are many more examples of references like the above pointing to man.  Consider that man is to have dominion in this world and yet we learn in the New Testament that Satan is the "god of this world".  So which is it?  Man or Satan? - my answer is that they are part of the same - man's evil heart.

Paul

martincisneros

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2009, 09:31:44 PM »
I could accept that when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals and into his wife that when he breathed the breath of life into the serpent that he might have created Satan at that point.  But, I've dealt with a few too many exorcisms and seen quite a few too many things to ever make Satan a figment of the imagination.  Doesn't seem like in the ministry of Jesus or St. Paul that they were casting out figments in the Gospels and Acts.  And the indepth teaching of the Word that builds the image of God into us as the divinely intended counterpart to the tower of babel is definitely not to be confused with exorcisms although as the Word and Anointing take root in the life of a person, very often demonic bondages will be cast out.  There are physical parasites with plants, animals, fish, etc., so I don't see why it's such a big deal to recognize spiritual parasites since the natural order of things is merely a reflection of what goes on in the heavenlies with no particular aspect of the natural world being the complete picture of what goes on beyond the 5 physical senses.

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 09:36:48 PM »
I could accept that when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals and into his wife that when he breathed the breath of life into the serpent that he might have created Satan at that point.  But, I've dealt with a few too many exorcisms and seen quite a few too many things to ever make Satan a figment of the imagination.  Doesn't seem like in the ministry of Jesus or St. Paul that they were casting out figments in the Gospels and Acts.  And the indepth teaching of the Word that builds the image of God into us as the divinely intended counterpart to the tower of babel is definitely not to be confused with exorcisms although as the Word and Anointing take root in the life of a person, very often demonic bondages will be cast out.  There are physical parasites with plants, animals, fish, etc., so I don't see why it's such a big deal to recognize spiritual parasites since the natural order of things is merely a reflection of what goes on in the heavenlies with no particular aspect of the natural world being the complete picture of what goes on beyond the 5 physical senses.

How do you reconcile Jeremiah 17:9 with your understanding?

Paul

martincisneros

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 10:15:11 PM »
Not the least bit related to the New Covenant heart that He places within us when He begins His walk in us, talk in us, and leading us into all truth -- even describing that heart in 1John 2 as knowing all things -- though not independent of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers, Workers of Miracles, Gifts of Healings, Financial and other Administrations, Helps, Bishops, and every other appointment of Christ Jesus in 1Corinthians 12, 1Corinthians 16, 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9, Ephesians 4, and Paul's epistles to Timothy and Titus that outline the ministry offices.  And each of those people involved UNQUESTIONABLY have a heart like ours that's simply a biproduct of what they do/don't do with the Written Word, His Holy Spirit, and the High Priestly Ministry of Jesus Christ that's supposed to be leading them wherever they go, as it says in Hebrews and Revelation.  I don't mock at or deny the New Birth which elsewhere is described as being a New Creation in Christ Jesus because we're born again of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED by the Word of God which liveth and abideth to the age in 1Peter 1:23 and numerous other passages that describe the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of those that have been brought near by His ministers who have been transfigured into the very Blood of Jesus as you compare all of the passages that describe being brought near by the Blood, while at the exact same time but in different contexts saying we're supposed to be drawing all men unto ourselves as He lifts us up in Christ to God's right hand by faith in His faith and grace in Ephesians 2 and innumerable other passages, such as Isaiah 58 with being described as riding upon the high places of the earth, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.  Romans 8:2 says that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.  Heart's not bound any more if it's become Christ's slave and the slave of all of Creation.  By the Blood of Jesus Christ my own heart is ALL IN ALL (Ephesians 1:23; Colossians 3:17; 1John 2:5-6; 1John 4:17, et. al.).  By the Blood of Jesus and His exceeding great and precious promises, when you compare the first chapter of 1Peter and the first chapter of 2Peter together with all of St. Paul's teachings, then by the Blood of Jesus each of us individually as well as together corporately are the fullness of the Godhead Bodily.

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 10:22:03 PM »
Thanks Martin, but more specifically how do you reconcile Jeremiah 17:9 with Gen 3:1 in which it says that the serpent is the most Subtile creature made.  Can the Serpent be more Deceitful above man if Jeremiah is saying that the heart of man is the most deceitful?

Paul

Offline sparrow

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 02:46:43 AM »
I could accept that when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals and into his wife that when he breathed the breath of life into the serpent that he might have created Satan at that point. 

Hey bro,
what do you mean when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals, etc.?
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

martincisneros

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 03:18:32 AM »
Hey bro,
what do you mean when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals, etc.?
Genesis 1: God said/called and it was:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called "Man be in our Image, have dominion, et. al."

chapter 2: God formed the animals from the dust of the earth and brought them to the man and whatever the man CALLED THEM then THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE....Deep sleep came upon Adam and God brings something out of his side and presents this maniquin to Adam and Adam CALLED HER "Woman."

Lots of Old Testament passages regarding what God was bringing the Church through Jesus Christ that I'd taken with the traditional mindset that every single one of you at these boards have taken the same way as promises of perpetual work -- and in the last 6weeks He's made me aware through those very passages that He was restoring us as Creators through Jesus Christ in this life as the chiefest of His works of grace in our lives as the Blood remitted our sins, per Ephesians 1:7.
Thanks Martin, but more specifically how do you reconcile Jeremiah 17:9 with Gen 3:1 in which it says that the serpent is the most Subtile creature made.  Can the Serpent be more Deceitful above man if Jeremiah is saying that the heart of man is the most deceitful?
So are you telling me you honestly believe that the Cross changed absolutely nothing and that all things continue as they were from the foundation of the world?  You don't believe in the change in the priesthood that's happened, obviously, for one thing, to say such things...much less in the Blood that's said much better things and that we have a Last Adam that's renaming everything as we speak, according to the Book of Revelation.  Hosea 2:18, Jeremiah 31:27-28, Colossians 1:15-20 and a lot of other passages say the serpent's already saved.  Jesus saw the restored Serpent that came in the Garden of Gethsemane as the angel that strengthened Him.  For the joy that was set before Him, He endured the Cross according to Hebrews 12.  I love leading demons to Jesus during exorcisms.  It's always amazing as the room lights up as you finally convince them to go be with Christ Jesus and you see the heavens opened as you've prayed them open over the situation 'cause you obey absolutely all that the Scriptures have to say about walking under opened heavens.  I love preaching the Gospel to demons.  Lots of cries start coming out of them being so unworthy as the love of God hits them in waves as you invoke it over them the way the old time Pentecostals would plead the Blood.  But you just keep covering them with the love of God as with a blanket as you explain God's plan of salvation for serpents and scorpions throughout the Scriptures and see them go into very violent sobbing as the room fills up with the Love of God.  Gotta know what you're doing though, otherwise, if the Word about it isn't a revelation in your heart along with what the Word has to say about the authority of the believer, then they'll beat you out of your clothes and send you running from the place naked like the 7 sons of Sceva in the book of Acts.

Offline Molly

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 04:24:36 AM »
Quote from: Martin
and in the last 6weeks He's made me aware through those very passages that He was restoring us as Creators through Jesus Christ in this life as the chiefest of His works of grace in our lives as the Blood remitted our sins, per Ephesians 1:7.

This is beautiful, Martin.   Keep it coming.


 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

--Eph 1



[we have]"redemption"

G629
ἀπολύτρωσις
apolutrōsis
ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
From a compound of G575 and G3083; (the act) ransom in full, that is, (figuratively) riddance, or (specifically) Christian salvation: - deliverance, redemption.





17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
--Rom 8

Offline sparrow

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 04:27:06 AM »
Hey bro,
what do you mean when Adam breathed the breath of life into the animals, etc.?
Genesis 1: God said/called and it was:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called and it was/became:
God said/called "Man be in our Image, have dominion, et. al."

chapter 2: God formed the animals from the dust of the earth and brought them to the man and whatever the man CALLED THEM then THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE....Deep sleep came upon Adam and God brings something out of his side and presents this maniquin to Adam and Adam CALLED HER "Woman."

Just trying to understand what you mean, bro. So you don't see it as these creatures already HAD life (breathed into them from GOD) and then Adam gave them their names? You see the passage "whatever the man called them then that's what they were" to mean that Adam breathed life into them? Is that what you mean? or am I misunderstanding?

edited to add: ok, wait I just remembered something. There are people who believe animals don't have souls because it never says that God breathed life into them the way God breathed life into Adam. (Which I think is totally ridiculous to think that. I absolutely believe that animals have souls. NO doubt in my mind. NONE. But it also doesn't say that God breathed life into EVE. Isn't it just assumed that God did these things? Why does it have to keep being repeated that "God breathed life" All he had to do was say it once when he created Adam, and then shouldn't we GET IT that if these creatures are alive (animals, Eve, etc.) that God breathed life into them?? Why would it have to be repeated if we were already given the illustration of how things came "alive"?? (By God breathing life into them.) I don't think that Adam breathed life into anything. I think it was God who breathes life into everything, and only God.
Well, just some thoughts.

peace ya'll...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 04:39:25 AM by sparrow »
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2009, 04:43:07 AM »
Martin, I don't see anything there that is showing me otherwise.  I still see man's disobedient nature as being Satan.  I believe when Jesus was tempted of the Devil that it was actually in His own mind that we giving these thoughts and the descriptions are figurative - in His mind.  I haven't yet been able to see Satan as a DIFFERENT creature that can exist apart from man.

Paul

Offline sparrow

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2009, 04:49:59 AM »
Martin, I don't see anything there that is showing me otherwise.  I still see man's disobedient nature as being Satan.  I believe when Jesus was tempted of the Devil that it was actually in His own mind that we giving these thoughts and the descriptions are figurative - in His mind.  I haven't yet been able to see Satan as a DIFFERENT creature that can exist apart from man.

Paul

I have been seeing it this same way for several years now.
I could be wrong.
But I will say that the minute I stopped worrying about satan and devils and whatever else...
they lost all power in my mind.
The "Satan's gonna get ya!" stuff just dropped off of me.
It's mostly "Sparrow will get ya!" now.
Just fighing this carnal man within, and clinging to God.
When I don't cling to God.. the antichrist spirit rises up.
The antichrist is me. My carnality.
That is what will end up being burned off me in the lake of fire.
Clinging to God and just trying to burn off as much of it as I can now while living this life.
Does that make sense to anyone else?
It makes sense to me.
It really does.

Again... maybe I'm seeing this totally wrong.
But it makes a lot of sense.
So I'm sticking with this view for now...
but my mind is still open to other possibilities though...
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2009, 05:41:33 AM »
Martin, I don't see anything there that is showing me otherwise.  I still see man's disobedient nature as being Satan.  I believe when Jesus was tempted of the Devil that it was actually in His own mind that we giving these thoughts and the descriptions are figurative - in His mind.  I haven't yet been able to see Satan as a DIFFERENT creature that can exist apart from man.

Paul

I have been seeing it this same way for several years now.
I could be wrong.
But I will say that the minute I stopped worrying about satan and devils and whatever else...
they lost all power in my mind.
The "Satan's gonna get ya!" stuff just dropped off of me.
It's mostly "Sparrow will get ya!" now.
Just fighing this carnal man within, and clinging to God.
When I don't cling to God.. the antichrist spirit rises up.
The antichrist is me. My carnality.
That is what will end up being burned off me in the lake of fire.
Clinging to God and just trying to burn off as much of it as I can now while living this life.
Does that make sense to anyone else?
It makes sense to me.
It really does.

Again... maybe I'm seeing this totally wrong.
But it makes a lot of sense.
So I'm sticking with this view for now...
but my mind is still open to other possibilities though...

That is how I see it also Sparrow.  It is this Satan that doesn't survive the lake of fire.  Satan goes away along with the sin and death.

Paul

Offline Pierac

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 08:00:09 AM »
Luke 22:3  And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

Hummm, Satan entered into him? Maybe Judas' carnal nature left for a period of time... and came back?  :dontknow:



Offline sparrow

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 08:11:23 AM »
Luke 22:3  And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

Hummm, Satan entered into him? Maybe Judas' carnal nature left for a period of time... and came back?  :dontknow:



Maybe "Satan entering into Judas" is another way of saying his carnality rised up in him?

Or that he was pushing God away... do you know what I mean?

hmm. I don't know. Maybe not.
I admit this is is an area I'm not too strong in.   :dontknow:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2009, 08:16:31 AM »
Luke 22:3  And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

Hummm, Satan entered into him? Maybe Judas' carnal nature left for a period of time... and came back?  :dontknow:




Yes, that is what I think.  I think we just reading a personification of the disobedient carnal nature.  So when I read that it means that Judas became submissive to his own carnal desire.

Again, if Jer 17:9 can show that man's heart is deceitful above ALL then that leaves no other heart to be more deceitful.  

See to me it is inconsistent in how the devil and demons are viewed in the mainstream sense.  Consider this:

Act 13:10  And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11  And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

Why wouldn't Paul just cast out the devil?  Why punish the man if Satan is just taking possession?

Paul

Offline Molly

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2009, 05:59:37 PM »



7Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

 8For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

 9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 11As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.

 12A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

 13O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

 14Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

--Jer 17




Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.



Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.


Offline Molly

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 06:26:17 PM »
Quote
Why punish the man if Satan is just taking possession?




8But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

 9Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

 10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

 11And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

 12Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

--Acts 13



"Elymas"

G1681
Ἐλύμας
Elumas
el-oo'-mas
Of foreign origin; Elymas, a wizard: - Elymas.



This man is a sorcerer by name even.   He works for the devil by choice.  He uses spirits to manipulate others.  He's a magician who casts spells and tricks people. This is a bad thing to do and carries dire consequences.



Malachi 3:5
And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.






« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 06:29:32 PM by Molly »

Offline sheila

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 06:35:41 PM »
Because of the principle of binding and loosing. They had

authority to bind or loose from these spiritual bondages.

  Paul chose to not remove it..and to make the man temporarily

 blind for a while and cause him to seek someone to lead him

[demon not have power to 'give sight' physically and spiritually.

   If you remember some are handed over to satan for the

destruction of the flesh,in order to be taught not to blaspheme.


   why did't Jesus cast out the viper offspring of the Pharisees

 etc.? Because they rejected him.Just like this Elymas did.

  they,too, remained 'bound' until the destruction of their flesh

   He has the keys...He sets free.


   these are those who remain bound til the death of their flesh

  then they will hear HIS VOICE calling them from the

   grave..and WILL LIVE..and the spirit will return to God..


  these also can represent those thrown in prisonhouses .Bars of sheol...this mans name was Bar-Jesus

   bar=preclude,block obstruct...in actuality this was one of the

 anti-Christ spirits on this man...a sorcerer,magician spirit

specifically bent on misleading and blocking the Holy spirit.

  and you know what Jesus said about blasphemy against the

 Holy spirit. No forgiveness,in this 'age' or the next.

  Now,the man carrying that 'spirit' will continue til death and

the hearing of Jesus calling his name out of his grave...and he

 will live and be seperated from it[first resurrection] however

 that spirit will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

   that no forgiveness bespeaks of  not being 'loosed' from them

  it is the Son who sets you free from bondage to/and with them

  remember what He told the Pharisees[the offspring of viper]

  in Matthew 12 they brought him a demon possessed man who

 was blind and mute[note bar-Jesus made blind for awhile, to

show those who see made blind and those blind to see]

   Jesus healed him and the Pharisees heard it nd accused Jesus

 of working by the power of satan. Same anti-christ spirit at

 work again..note His warning to this same spirit in operation

in verse 32...but anyone who speaks against the Holy spirit will

not be forgiven,either in this age or the age to come.

  Then He give them the sign of Jonah....this after He had done

a miraculous work of the spirit and been accused of doing the

 work per satan,and they had rejected the  miracle.

  asking for another sign ,He told them about the sign of Jonah

 would be the only sign He would give them.

   That sign of JONAH[dove] is a whole other treasure trove of

  spiritual truth. For it not only bespeaks of Christ resurrection

 from the dead..it bespeaks of the first resurrection,or mankinds

spirit returning to God...when they hear His voice from their

 tombs

Offline Pierac

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2009, 06:46:28 PM »
Luke 22:3  And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

Hummm, Satan entered into him? Maybe Judas' carnal nature left for a period of time... and came back?  :dontknow:



Maybe "Satan entering into Judas" is another way of saying his carnality rised up in him?

Or that he was pushing God away... do you know what I mean?

hmm. I don't know. Maybe not.
I admit this is is an area I'm not too strong in.   :dontknow:

But that's not what Luke 22:3  says…


Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire…


Rev 20:2  And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; … Rev 20:10  And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire…

Rev 20:14  Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

And Finally,

Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds...  Rev 20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

According to John,  Satan and the rest of humanity go in to the Lake of Fire at different times.  Again, maybe all of humanities carnal nature left for a period of time.

Maybe God needed to chat with their carnal nature one last time to say goodbye before destroying it? ( Like in  Job 1:7 )

I'm thinking why bother to have Satan enter back into humanity when they are all going in the same pot.  Probably saved time and speeds up the judgment process! :dontknow:

Anyway, we will find out soon enough, at least no one will burn in Hell forever if their wrong either way. :laughing7:

Paul



trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2009, 07:25:43 PM »
...
This man is a sorcerer by name even.   He works for the devil by choice.  He uses spirits to manipulate others.  He's a magician who casts spells and tricks people. This is a bad thing to do and carries dire consequences.
...

Can someone do the devils works without it being their choice?

Paul

trettep

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2009, 07:34:27 PM »
... Anyway, we will find out soon enough, at least no one will burn in Hell forever if their wrong either way. :laughing7:

Paul

I think this topic is very important because it gets down to how much of a man was Jesus?  We must know what comprises a man.  For if we believe that Satan is another being separate existing from man then we may have a wrong understanding of what man is.  And if we have a wrong understanding of what man is then we may not identify that Jesus came as a man and thus consider Him to be beyond what a man actually is.  And to not believe that Jesus came as a man is the spirit of antichrist.  So it becomes very important.

Paul

Offline Molly

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2009, 07:36:14 PM »
...
This man is a sorcerer by name even.   He works for the devil by choice.  He uses spirits to manipulate others.  He's a magician who casts spells and tricks people. This is a bad thing to do and carries dire consequences.
...

Can someone do the devils works without it being their choice?

Paul
well, you know, you're dangling forbidden fruit in front of me lol.   But, I will bite--yes I think they can because they are just lost and in darkness.  That's why Jesus forgives them from the cross.  They don't know what they are doing.  But, if you know the right thing and do the wrong thing anyways, aren't you in rebellion against God?  This is why he deals so harshly with the Israelites when they start worshipping their false gods; they know better.

Offline Pierac

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2009, 08:12:10 PM »

... Anyway, we will find out soon enough, at least no one will burn in Hell forever if their wrong either way. :laughing7:

Paul

I think this topic is very important because it gets down to how much of a man was Jesus?  We must know what comprises a man.  For if we believe that Satan is another being separate existing from man then we may have a wrong understanding of what man is.  And if we have a wrong understanding of what man is then we may not identify that Jesus came as a man and thus consider Him to be beyond what a man actually is.  And to not believe that Jesus came as a man is the spirit of antichrist.  So it becomes very important.

Paul


How much of a man was Jesus?
Scripture and Jesus Himself clearly teach… Jesus was 100% a man.  A human that was conceived by the Holy Spirit.  "The second Adam".  Listen to Gabriel,  "who stands in the presence of God."


Luke 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.  Now for what reason is Jesus to be called the Son of God?  Perhaps, being conceived (Created) by the Holy Spirit?

Listen to Jesus…

Joh 8:40  "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man  who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Listen to Peter…

Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

Listen to Paul…

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,  the man Christ Jesus,


Jesus was definitely a Man, and all of Him (Body, Soul and Spirit) died on the cross for our sins.  As you know… "The wages of sin is death."   To believe that not all of  man dies at death, (immortal soul) is to believe Satan Himself when he said…    "You surely will not die!  




Peace,
Paul



« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 08:18:42 PM by Pierac »

Offline sheila

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2009, 09:02:09 PM »
 some men serve as an example of godlessness in this life..

   the twice dead..those not forgiven in this age nor the age to

  come....but it is only in the temporal that they have this role.

   Jude1  godless men who deny Christ...


   v 7  THEY SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE OF THOSE WHO SUFFER THE

    PUNISHMENT OF ETERNAL FIRE





they are but serving as an illustration...to the fact that all

 negative spiritual input will be annhilated in the perfection

stage of the sons and daughters of God.


  Sodom and Gomorrha was one of the examples given...

  that they just served as an example and not the actual reality

 is shown where the scriptures speak of Sodom being restored

  some men in this life serve as examples of those who are

  'TWICE DEAD"  no forgiveness in this age or the age to come.

  we have other men,often in the news that serve as an

 example of 'evil personified" They gives us a clear look at what

 lies in satans and the kingdom of darkness characterisitcs.


  Now at the time of Jesus returns we see seperation of sheep

 and goats. These men that serve as spiritual 'types' of the

 adversary are the 'goats'..those that hear His voice are the

 sheep.

  In other words twice dead..those that resisted His first

 appearance and those still resisting at His secound coming.

   They are but serving as an example of the kingdom of

 darkness...they never put any faith in what He said the first

 time He was here..and they will not receive His words now.

  In fact they remain "bound" to the darkness and are unable to

 enter in the kingdom of heaven or the New Jerusalem city in

Rev. Ex; pharisee offspring of vipers not entering in kingdom

 and preventing others from entering at Jesus 1st Coming

  and Rev 21;27  Nothing impure will ever ENTER IT,nor will

 anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful at 2nd coming

   You see..our corruptible flesh allowed the 'entry' of such things[evil spirit] into our bodies,minds and hearts...

  but when we are given the incorruptible body..it will repel

  and  forbid entrace of such things...thus..outside weeping and

 gnashing of teeth....the final assault against the city[Gog] and

fire coming down from heaven and devouring  them.Rev20;9,10

   there is a 'change'


  the dead were judged according to what they had done...

  note it is the 'works' that are judged here. the dead are the

 Kingdom of darkness..and all of their works are unlawfull and


condemned..for sin in the flesh is condemned to death...besides



 they have as always been as good as dead,for they had


another man's wife[are bodies were created for God's spirit to

dwell in..His wife..bear His seed]they corrupted and brought

death to mankind

  the other book that is opened is the Book of LIFE...all mankind

 has their names written in it

for Jesus their Kinsman redeemer bought them and His works

 resulted in the free gift of eternal life to all mankind

  after each person is judged according to what he has done...

   which no sins will be accounted against mankind..for actually

 we have no works of our own..there is only the works of the

Father/SON and the works of the devil....Because we have no

works..Jesus gives us the free gift of eternal life...at that time


  satan and the kingdom of darkness are cast from the Lord's presence because their names are not written in the Book of Life

  for they are no partakers of LIFE or GOD but are of godlessness


  they are death..that is why death and Hades were thrown into

 the Lake of fire..because they are the death spirit..they are the

 true 'illegitimate men of lawlessness' or 'bastards'

  that dared to 'touch' us.   OUR God/HUSBAND is a JEALOUS GOD

....for LOVE IS AS STRONG AS DEATH

  IT'S JEALOUSY UNYEILDING AS THE GRAVE,

  IT BURNS LIKE BLAZING FIRE

 LIKE A MIGHTY FLAME


Offline sparrow

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Re: YOU are Satan...
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2009, 09:09:03 PM »
who is satan & the "kingdom of darkness"?

Actual beings?
or..?
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.