Author Topic: wow wow I got a message from God about UR  (Read 3933 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2012, 03:51:15 AM »
Or aren't you aware that the unjust won't inherit a share of God's Kingdom?  You must stop being led astray;   neither those who are having non-marital sexual intercourse nor those who are idol worshipers nor those who are having extramarital sexual intercourse, nor those who have a soft, self-indulgent way of life, nor those who are homosexuals, nor those who are thieves..greedy..drunkards..wound with words..take things by force, will inherit a share of God's Kingdom!  Now these are what some of you used to be , but you have bathed yourselves off, you have been purified, you have been justified through the name of the Master Yesu (the Anointed One) and by our God's Spirit.  I Cor 6:9-11  The Christian Bible (extremely literal to Koine Greek)
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline thinktank

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 04:14:27 AM »
Quote
I also wonder why God, who is not the author of confusion would have you speak in a tongue you didn't understand and then tell you what He wanted. Why not just tell you first?


The spirit man within speaks in other tongues, this allows God to speak to the spirit within, Then this is translated by the gift of interpretation.

So one gift leads to the process of another gift, which leads to the word being spoken and understood.


Offline thinktank

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2012, 04:17:50 AM »
This word you give doesn't inspire much confidence in UR. Please pray more to see if you have more information.

There is a huge lack in prophecy concerning UR and this is a bit disturbing. But your new gift gives hope.


Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2012, 04:19:42 AM »
Thanks for getting this back on topic Tank.   :laughing7:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Deena

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2012, 02:19:55 PM »
Jab, I too wrestle with a certain "sin" of which seems to have more power over me than I can understand. I have wept many bitter tears over it and begged God to take it away, but here it remains. I would imagine this is probably how many homosexuals feel. My "sin" may not be the same as theirs, but I can relate to feeling trapped and hopeless in it. I don't "hear fom God" like many of you, but I got the impression He is asking me, can you believe I love you even if I don't take this away? Can you believe I love you even if I don't heal you? For years the answer has been, no. I want to be free and He won't help me. Now I am wondering if there is a larger message in the reason it still remains. I know God can, but He doesn't. There must be a reason. Is there a lesson to be learned in the experience of sin? One thing it has taught me is compassion for all fellow sinners.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 04:12:22 PM »
Amen sister! I think almost all, if not all of us, have a sin in our life that we have prayed would be taken away and there it remains. I know I do. I reason out that if it was booze cigarettes or drugs, I could quit and I know I would live and my body would thrive. But my addiction is food and you can't quit (for any real length of time) and live and have your body thrive.
The answer is to eat fresh fruits and vegetables. If I quit eating JUNK food) I will most certainly live and my body, will thrive.
We all know what we need to do, the question is doing it. If how-to's were enough, we would all be skinny, rich and happy.
 :2c: :doh:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 08:35:03 PM »
Hi Deena.  Firstly, I'm sort of a poor example, because I've struggled with sins and lusts of the flesh pretty much my whole life, in one way or another.  On the other hand, maybe I'm a good example, because that's probably common to most humans  :dontknow:.  I truly believe it's primarily God's will that we yield to Him, submit our self and bodies to Him, and clear the way by submitting our will for Him to work through us to overcome.  He wants to grow us, mature us into HIS will.  However, I really do believe that most of us will continue to fall from time to time in one way or another.  We're clay, and if clay's not perfect, it has lumps and bubbles in it.  Also, besides just the slip-ups sort of common to being human, it seems some (many?) have a besetting sin, that just keeps coming and coming and coming...repent, admit, accept forgiveness, better for awhile, then there it is again.  Is this right for any others besides me?

So IMO, with those sins, that's totally where He has to carry us.  Maybe some of us more than others, really need that extra situation in our lives to really learn how to trust Him - His goodness, His love for us, His grace - that sustains us when we can do no better.  To me, this is a much different scenario than saying "ah, that's not really sin, I'll twist this verse around, reason it in my own mind to excuse it, God and I are still buds [I'll deceive myself and deceive others"...Sorry if this sounds harsh, but IMO, that's just giving in to pleasing the flesh instead of walking in the Spirit, and even if our spirits have been saved (that's between that person and God and that work of the cross puts us in legal right standing and our spirit's perfection in His prescence), while walking it out in this life, we are hindered from living in the Kingdom (righteousness, peace, joy, clear conscience, close fellowship with the Savior).     So I look again at Paul who said the things he WANTED to do (he wanted to do right) he couldn't do..and the things he DIDN"T want to do, those things he did.  He also talked about begging the Lord THREE TIMES (usually once with Paul was enough) to take the thorn in his flesh from him.  So he sincerely wanted to please God and his heart and will were turned and yielded to Him - but his flesh still acted up and affected him.    But Paul said God had that there for a reason.  To keep him humble and trusting God rather than trusting and glorying in himself.  He gloried in the cross of Christ.  God's answer to Him was, rather than removing it, "my grace is sufficient for you". 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 08:54:02 PM »
I'm not sure this "christian bible" gets things right. For one, it simply translates Sodomites as homosexuals whereas we know that the sins of sodom were rape and inhospitality (this is reaffirmed in a particular verse in the OT, FYI). Also, the word "Sodomite" appears first and is introduced as a special subset of sin and sinners, ie "thieves..greedy..drunkards..wound with words..take things by force." This again fits perfectly to some of the roman and greek decadence we can find in the histories about the years of that biblical time, but it does not fit with the modern understanding of homosexuality and the lifestyle of people who identify as same sexers. There is a difference between a raper and betrayer/abuser of those who came under their roof, and a modern person that happens to love men over women. PLEASE take this into consideration and don't support the old adage that homosexual means sodomite means sinner means criminal. It does not work in God's PERFECT justice that cannot be fulfilled in the law anyway, but only in Christ, and Christ never sad anything about homosexuals at all. I understand the issue may be hard to discern for some people here but it's really important, don't call someone a sinner who just has some sexual eccentricty about him, and that's what the matter comes down to.

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 09:10:03 PM »
New faith in UR? Just speak to average christians, those who don't run into evangelical megachurches or into these small fundie churches where they isolate themselves. Don't forget to speak to Catholics ... many of them trust a salvation through hope ... they don't claim they know all the details or that they know that really every last single person would not be thrown into hell, but they in fact express hope for jews, moral atheists, muslims who are honest and devoted to Allah, pretty much everyone really, and the salvation of the disabled and the aborted babies and all is a matter of course for them. IE, they just sometimes doubt the salvation of the Hitlers and Pol Pots, and even in such cases they often hope that God will find a way to change these people. Basically they think God threatens us with Hell but it is not clear if God would ever actually follow through with damning just a single person there, apart of the devil and his angels. Anyway, just get out of hanging out in evangelical christianity all the time and you will see that there is more to christianity than railing on the hell issue or using it a lot in theology. The "normal" people know where it's at, that spiritual life is found by trusting God, believing in love and seeing the other person and interesting yourself in finding out the truth. Hell is not really a threat, it's the polar opposite of leading such a life really ... it won't overcome the church and the book of Revelation says that hell itself will be thrown into the lake of fire ... it will happen someday in history, a period of intense love and spiritual devotion and enlightenment that will simply swallow up hell and sin and after which we can finally safely and happily await Christ to come back.

Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 09:10:52 PM »
Thanks for your kind reply.  I'll post this info I had shared in a different thread;

if anyone can truly scripturally show that "women did change the natural use into that which is against nature" and "men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men" is not speaking against the active lifestyle of homosexuality, then I'll listen.  But IMO, it's pretty clear - and that's not even discussing the translation of malakos and arsenokoites.  Others do as well, but the most literal translation I know of translates arsenokoites as 'homosexual' - add that to the context of the references above, "women..burned.." and "men with men", and for me (as well as my conscience) it's an acceptable saying.

 I am aware of the arguments over the words, including by the (what I consider) very suspect "Jesus Seminar" folks.  Based on what I've personally seen and studied (limited, I'm no scholar) I believe the translations of the following words  actually are accurate - not just the words themselves, but within a larger context of other scriptures, such as the few lines I end the post with -


I'll post the words and translations, but then also say that even without the specific words in question, the NT also defines the situation in other words -

The words and their references;

"Be not deceived, neither ...effeminate [Gk: malakos-catamite/boy with man sex] shall inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor. 6:9-10).

"Be not deceived, neither ...abusers of themselves with mankind [Gk: arsenokoites-sodomites/male bed partners/male-liers] shall inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor. 6:9-10).

Some of the other passages without "the words"...in Romans 1

"to dishonor their own bodies between themselves"
"women did change the natural use into that which is against nature"
"men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men"
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2012, 09:29:45 PM »
pEOPLE FORGET THAT WHEN GOD SAID..'LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE AND LIKENESS...AND

  MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM...THAT SEX ROLES WERE DEFINED FOR ETERNAL REALM

  NOW THE ADVERSARY LIKES TO 'MARR' THE APPEARANCE OF GOD.

   JUST AS GOD HAS A WIFE..JERUSALEM ABOVE..SO DOES SATAN..EVEN BABYLON.

  AS ALWAYS PLEASE SEE AND DISCERN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO CONTRASTS

  EVIL SPIRITS DO TAKE MEN CAPTIVE..AND HAVE THE POWER TO STIR UP LUST IN OUR FLESH..

  PITY THE POOR BLIND CAPTIVE THAT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY DESIRE IS ONLY STIRRED

  WHEN WITH MEN.  OR A MAN THAT FINDS HIMSELF IN A WOMANS BODY,CONVINCED HE WAS

 PACKAGED WRONGLY,WHILE ALL THE WHILE......IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ADVERSARY IN OPERATION

  CONVINCING  THE MAN..THAT HE IS REALLY A WOMAN.  MY PEOPLE PERISH THROUGH LACK OF

 KNOWLEDGE...........

   ALL PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHEEP AMONG WOLVES.............GOD HAS TO TELL US,AND HE SENT

   US A SHEPHERD....HE SAID   'HEAR YE HIM'

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2012, 09:49:16 PM »
Scripture is scripture. One can play around with words and meanings but
the plainest and simplest translation usually makes things obvious - unless one goes in with a worldview bias.
70 years ago, this kind of discussion wouldn't have even taken place. It was obvious.
What's the beef about calling someone a sinner? That's what we all are. It's Just that calling someone a name does not show love for the person. Homosexuality was lumped together with the common sins of mankind, fornicators, adulterers, theives and liars.
Who has never stolen anything or never told a lie? The difference is correcting in love so that an anything goes attitude does not prevail.
You could literally have people living in sin (the bible cites a man living as man and wife with his stepmother)and proud of it citing freedom in Christ. Paul made it clear this was not to be and should not be allowed.
Suppose a man comes in and says, I'm a hit man for the mob. I just got saved and I know the spirit is in me. I have to make a living and now "in Christ" I am no longer under the law so, I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing.
NO. Paul makes it clear that we are to stop living in habitual sin.
Rearrange the scripture all you want, but ask, "Are homosexuals letting their lives be directed by the spirit? Is what they are doing sexually glorifying God?"  - and there is no "normal" homosexual behaviour anymore than a hitman that says he only kills "bad" people so it glorifies God. :2c: 
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline shawn

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 07:45:50 AM »
I think it's also easy to take hardcore stances on a particular issue that doesn't effect us.  Before HIV, can anyone think of a good reason same sex couples shouldn't send the rest of their life together?  I can't.  I get drunkeness, adultery, fornication, lying, stealing...etc...all makes sense.  Two people who love each other wanting a life long commitment?  Yeah don't see the issue other than some tough passages about it in the Bible...which is obviously a huge issue.  But, I do realize my understanding of the Bible has not always been accurate, and I'm not arrogant enough to believe all my understanding is perfect.

I don't have to understand...or even think its fair.  I'm not God, He makes the rules not me.  But, how I feel about same sex marriage effects the way I love others.  It also effects the way I witness.  Let me give you two scenarios...

1) I witness to a same sex couple...invite them to church, love them, accept them...and they begin a life with Christ.  I let the Holy Spirit do, what the Holy Spirit does...which is to correct how God sees fit.  Maybe that means they split and celibacy....or maybe not...but it's not my call. 

2) I do the same thing...then tell them that what they are doing is an abomination, and they must live a celibate  life if they ever want a relationship with Christ.

If we are talking about two same sex life long partners...I personally will err own the side of loving them...and allowing the Holy Spirit to condemn.

Maybe it's a cop out, but I really do struggle with this a great deal.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:00:52 AM by shawn »

Offline shawn

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 07:52:35 AM »
Scripture is scripture. One can play around with words and meanings but
the plainest and simplest translation usually makes things obvious - unless one goes in with a worldview bias.
70 years ago, this kind of discussion wouldn't have even taken place. It was obvious.
What's the beef about calling someone a sinner? That's what we all are. It's Just that calling someone a name does not show love for the person. Homosexuality was lumped together with the common sins of mankind, fornicators, adulterers, theives and liars.
Who has never stolen anything or never told a lie? The difference is correcting in love so that an anything goes attitude does not prevail.
You could literally have people living in sin (the bible cites a man living as man and wife with his stepmother)and proud of it citing freedom in Christ. Paul made it clear this was not to be and should not be allowed.
Suppose a man comes in and says, I'm a hit man for the mob. I just got saved and I know the spirit is in me. I have to make a living and now "in Christ" I am no longer under the law so, I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing.
NO. Paul makes it clear that we are to stop living in habitual sin.
Rearrange the scripture all you want, but ask, "Are homosexuals letting their lives be directed by the spirit? Is what they are doing sexually glorifying God?"  - and there is no "normal" homosexual behaviour anymore than a hitman that says he only kills "bad" people so it glorifies God. :2c:

So was hell...UR talk 70 years ago just like today is consider heresy, because hell is plain and simple.  While I believe most if not all homosexual acts to be sin, I'm not so sure it's that cut and dried even though people love black and white.  Two committed monogamous same sex adults wanting to marry and serve The Lord...would I point out their sinfulness and preach to them?  No...it's not my place...I would love them.  I would support them like any other believer...any other couple...I would let God judge their hearts and motives.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:58:37 AM by shawn »

Offline shawn

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 07:57:21 AM »
Or aren't you aware that the unjust won't inherit a share of God's Kingdom?  You must stop being led astray;   neither those who are having non-marital sexual intercourse nor those who are idol worshipers nor those who are having extramarital sexual intercourse, nor those who have a soft, self-indulgent way of life, nor those who are homosexuals, nor those who are thieves..greedy..drunkards..wound with words..take things by force, will inherit a share of God's Kingdom!  Now these are what some of you used to be , but you have bathed yourselves off, you have been purified, you have been justified through the name of the Master Yesu (the Anointed One) and by our God's Spirit.  I Cor 6:9-11  The Christian Bible (extremely literal to Koine Greek)

Soft, self-indulgent way of life would fit most of us compared to most of the world.  Who here doesn't still on occasion wound someone with our words?

Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2012, 08:00:52 AM »
I think of those 2 as well.  I'm not sure what that means exactly.  I know I've personally been reminded of that when I wanted to give somebody the business.   :punish:

Those would probably be a couple of good things to do some research on.  One thing I'm reminded of is Paul talking about a man not taking care of/providing for his family is the same as an infidel.  He also said if a man won't work he doesn't eat.  I believe assuredly that means if he's able?  Seems the rest of that list is pretty straight-forward.  But those are curious things, for sure. 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline shawn

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2012, 08:07:45 AM »
I think it's important to note the end...we are purified and justified by faith in Christ.  The stuff above is things he removes from us, freeing us from...and that is a process.  Thank God He loves an unfinished project such as myself.

Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2012, 08:15:58 AM »
I had written all of the following before reading your post.  I'll say a hearty AMEN!!!   Also, related to the end of this rant and my question to you, there's probably some things about our legal justification and how God sees us that I don't fully understand.  Jeremias has some good things to say about the finished work of the cross, even though we're still in these bodies of flesh.  Maybe he'll chime in.  I had written;

I believe most of Christendom teaches "won't inherit the kingdom" there to mean "won't get into heaven".  I personally think it's different than that, at least in some regard - but I could be wrong.  My guess is, it has to do with living in close fellowship with Him, a clear conscience before Him (Paul talked a bit about the conscience excusing or accusing, etc.).  Also, we're told the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit I believe.  So I kind of see it like this;  if I'm doing ANY of those things on that list, especially if I know better/if it's been revealed to me that it's wrong, then no, God hasn't left me, but I feel the consequences of those attitudes and behaviors, my conscience suffers for it - I become a little more like Adam and "hide from the Lord" (He knows where I am  :wink3:).  It's kind of a thing of, if I'm denying and justifying, I feel some "strain" in the relationship.  But if I'm admitting and turning it over, I tend to feel His closeness and Him carrying me.  God told David "you are the man [you're the guilty one]".  I've had Him say that to me before, in a very intense situation which I won't go into.   Actually, theologically, some of this is over my head.  What do you think?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2012, 08:23:10 AM »
p.s  it also may have to do with the discussion we've been having on salvation, the order being spirit, soul, body?  I.e., the spirit saved is the free gift imparted when faith is given to believe on Jesus as Savior (I believe the saved spirit is perfect and "just right" [righteous] through the blood applied; 

then the soul ["who we are"/what we do] being saved being an ongoing process [some call sanctification] that doesn't mean someone's not spiritually reborn/saved, but that there are consequences to not being obedient - a dirty conscience, harmed relationships, poor witness for Christ, destruction of health ["receiving in themselves the recompence of their error, which was just" Rm. 1:27], loss of deep-down joy and peace, and then finally loss of everything that's not of God when we experience basanismo [testing as with a touchstone] when we stand before Him in judgment.  Just some thoughts.  I may be whistling in the wind.   :dontknow:
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:28:50 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2012, 08:24:11 AM »
Scripture is scripture. One can play around with words and meanings but
the plainest and simplest translation usually makes things obvious -
Things rarely are obvious. Layers. The top layer quite often is the least important one.
Quote
unless one goes in with a worldview bias.
That usually is wrong, but is no longer translating but force fitting.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2012, 01:42:07 PM »
What I glean from scripture is that sin was once defined through the law, but not so anymore ... the law used to be between us and God but now Christ is between us and God and the matter of morality doesn't have to do with the law anymore but instead with Christ's things, so that in the end we don't live by either obeying or disobeying the law, we generally live by grace through faith so that we draw salvation into our lives. That is why we had christian martyrs, martyrdom being something not demanded by the law at all, yet it was something the genuine followers of Christ underwent because Christ and his things were the principles they lived by. The function that the law had in social matters in ancient Israel (and it was only them to whom it was given), is now replaced by whatever laws and customs and moral values the country has that you live in. That is how Paul could switch sides frequently and be a jew to the jews, a greek to the greek, a slave to the slaves, a free man to the free, and so on. And that is also how morality is not set in stone, it can change and progress as we can see in the issue of slavery, and ancient Israel and its laws are in no way the pinnacle of what we see as perfect or imperfect reality. But people confuse this because we read the law was given by God and it played such a big role in OT scripture. What we need to see is how we should not pull the law into our relationship to God again, because that's a void affair because God isn't keeping the bargain anymore that in ancient Israel made up for the "expense" of following the law. Wanting to live by the law is essentially a kind of romantic dream to get back to Israel, but sorry folks, it's a useless dream and it would behoove us to draw closer to Christ again who was not a law-giver but came as our Messiah who ended the reign of the law that was only meant to testify about him anyway, in a spiritual reading.

And when we read Pauline scripture used against homosexuals, then we're not seeing a law conflict stipulated again but we see the apostle and the early church altogether struggling to come to a sensible morality, and in that endeavour they sometimes failed, I would quote the issue of slavery again that was not satisfactorily solved by the early church but which was solved in the 18th and 19th and 20th century. And in likewise the issue of homosexuality was not satisfactorily solved by the early church and that now we need to once more "exceed the righteousness of the pharisees".

What it comes down is, what do we know of Christ and how can we live so that we are compatible to Him? What Christ do we actually have, what does He do for us? Is He something like the agent of Moses and hence an agent of the law, or does He supersede the things of Moses? On the Mount of Transfiguration Moses comes to Jesus, but God in the cloud says to Peter, listen to my son, in HIM I AM WELL PLEASED. How could the law that is the power of sin please the God of love and salvation? It does not make sense to keep the law for us, it was a thing meant for old ages and it's not our law anymore. And as far as morality and ethics are concerned, we should remember the Paradise incident and the good and evil knowledge that God didn't want for us in the first place, and that Jesus very simply said to the dying thief, "Thou shalt be with me in paradise today". Basically in Jesus we can enter Paradise again and leave behind the millennia of human history that were largely a failure as far as life with God is concerned. And in Paradise we are simply together with God in Christ, and that's our freedom.

Christian life consists of living in freedom and being Christ's disciples. I know this sounds difficult if we remember the discipleship commandments from the Gospels, but again these were spoken to the jews and simply describe the period of Christ being on his ministry before it culminated with the Cross where Christ simply didn't want so many followers because they might have declared him king prematurely, and in fact Jesus needed another royal annointment, the crucifixion and the resurrection. And now we live in another period where christian discipleship is an easier affair because it's done in the church, in the sheep pen, so to speak, and while we praise those who do much service to Christ we are not simply a Salvation Army recruiting everyone to the same services. Instead our lives are our playing field and our exercises of love and faith within that life. and love and faith are things which can be worked in whatever you want to do so we're remaining free people, not just sons charged with a consuming job that runs 24/7 - Christ is also the Lord of the Sabbath.

Offline shawn

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2012, 07:14:03 PM »
I had written all of the following before reading your post.  I'll say a hearty AMEN!!!   Also, related to the end of this rant and my question to you, there's probably some things about our legal justification and how God sees us that I don't fully understand.  Jeremias has some good things to say about the finished work of the cross, even though we're still in these bodies of flesh.  Maybe he'll chime in.  I had written;

I believe most of Christendom teaches "won't inherit the kingdom" there to mean "won't get into heaven".  I personally think it's different than that, at least in some regard - but I could be wrong.  My guess is, it has to do with living in close fellowship with Him, a clear conscience before Him (Paul talked a bit about the conscience excusing or accusing, etc.).  Also, we're told the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit I believe.  So I kind of see it like this;  if I'm doing ANY of those things on that list, especially if I know better/if it's been revealed to me that it's wrong, then no, God hasn't left me, but I feel the consequences of those attitudes and behaviors, my conscience suffers for it - I become a little more like Adam and "hide from the Lord" (He knows where I am  :wink3:).  It's kind of a thing of, if I'm denying and justifying, I feel some "strain" in the relationship.  But if I'm admitting and turning it over, I tend to feel His closeness and Him carrying me.  God told David "you are the man [you're the guilty one]".  I've had Him say that to me before, in a very intense situation which I won't go into.   Actually, theologically, some of this is over my head.  What do you think?

Jab, I think you really nailed it.  I would agree with that...much of that I talk about in my blog.  It's that guilt and shame...that hiding of ourselves...that I believe interrupts relationship on our end.  When we violate that internal moral compass given to us by God a wedge sets up in our hearts and minds.  Our thoughts turn inward...on self...instead of onto Christ.  It's this mix of egocentric, guilt laden pride, perfectionist attitudes that tell us if we screw up we are just a little less loveable.  We feel less loveable...we believe we are less...and when that seed of egocentric insecurity grows it looks like depression, anxiety, seperation from God, weeping and gnashing of teeth.  We are to avoid sin because it is not profitable for our spiritual growth...not because it somehow nullifies the Cross and it's effectiveness to reconciliate all of creation.  Good post.

Offline lomarah

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2012, 07:33:11 PM »
I had written all of the following before reading your post.  I'll say a hearty AMEN!!!   Also, related to the end of this rant and my question to you, there's probably some things about our legal justification and how God sees us that I don't fully understand.  Jeremias has some good things to say about the finished work of the cross, even though we're still in these bodies of flesh.  Maybe he'll chime in.  I had written;

I believe most of Christendom teaches "won't inherit the kingdom" there to mean "won't get into heaven".  I personally think it's different than that, at least in some regard - but I could be wrong.  My guess is, it has to do with living in close fellowship with Him, a clear conscience before Him (Paul talked a bit about the conscience excusing or accusing, etc.).  Also, we're told the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit I believe.  So I kind of see it like this;  if I'm doing ANY of those things on that list, especially if I know better/if it's been revealed to me that it's wrong, then no, God hasn't left me, but I feel the consequences of those attitudes and behaviors, my conscience suffers for it - I become a little more like Adam and "hide from the Lord" (He knows where I am  :wink3:).  It's kind of a thing of, if I'm denying and justifying, I feel some "strain" in the relationship.  But if I'm admitting and turning it over, I tend to feel His closeness and Him carrying me.  God told David "you are the man [you're the guilty one]".  I've had Him say that to me before, in a very intense situation which I won't go into.   Actually, theologically, some of this is over my head.  What do you think?

Jab, I think you really nailed it.  I would agree with that...much of that I talk about in my blog.  It's that guilt and shame...that hiding of ourselves...that I believe interrupts relationship on our end.  When we violate that internal moral compass given to us by God a wedge sets up in our hearts and minds.  Our thoughts turn inward...on self...instead of onto Christ.  It's this mix of egocentric, guilt laden pride, perfectionist attitudes that tell us if we screw up we are just a little less loveable.  We feel less loveable...we believe we are less...and when that seed of egocentric insecurity grows it looks like depression, anxiety, seperation from God, weeping and gnashing of teeth.  We are to avoid sin because it is not profitable for our spiritual growth...not because it somehow nullifies the Cross and it's effectiveness to reconciliate all of creation.  Good post.

Amen.

Now to actually believe it and walk it out, eh? It's so hard sometimes especially when you are so used to being condemned, rejected, and abandoned for every little (or big) slip up. Spending silent time before Him and really getting to know his true nature has really helped. Still a work in progress for sure though, as this head knowledge becomes heart knowledge.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2012, 07:44:56 PM »
used to..when I flubbed up...I would run and hide[hole up] from Him[after all my salvation was dependant

  on works,right?}

  once I found out about the salvation of All...I knew I was included!!!..once I found out He was not

  counting my tresspasses against me...I no longer run from Him..but to HIM..for help with them..

  instead of being ashamed away at His presence....there became an intimacy with Him..that I never

  enjoyed before...a close relationship with Him as my Saviour..not my condemne rbut  my helper

   it is a very bad thing when sheep go off feeling dejected from their Shepherd

Offline lomarah

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Re: wow wow I got a message from God about UR
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2012, 07:56:07 PM »
 :HeartThrob:

There is a poem I read once called Stupid Sheep. I loved it. It was like it was written for me LOL. :)

I keep running to Him because He is all I have right now and I am very sure there is a very good reason for that. His love is chipping away at my defenses and I keep begging for the trust in Him I once had, back when I was 17 and a brand new Christian. Not completely sure what happened between then and now (apart from the hellish doctrines of the church but they are no longer a part of me). In any case the fear spirits (fear of rejection and abandonment) are giving me a really hard go right now and of course the accuser loves to keep me frustrated that I am even struggling with these things. The enemy has been having a grand old time around here lol. I'm about ready to strangle him lol.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 08:08:22 PM by lomarah »
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.