Author Topic: What do Unitarians believe in?  (Read 2686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DeeDee

  • Guest
What do Unitarians believe in?
« on: November 09, 2008, 11:20:33 AM »
Hi all  :girlheart:

Even tho I done some research online regarding this I am still not sure. I was reading something earlier about a man name Servetus that was a Unitarian and was burned for it in a very gruesome way. What is the Unitarian belief system? I think I read that they believe that only a few get saved - not sure. Please clear this up for me. Thanks

Blessings

Dee
 :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 06:15:50 AM by firstborn888 »

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12895
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 12:24:20 PM »
Maybe this is of some help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism


Quote
Unitarian Christians reject the doctrine of some Christian denominations that God chooses to redeem or save only those certain individuals that accept the creeds of, or affiliate with a specific Church or religion, from a common ruin or corruption of the mass of humanity. They generally do not believe that God merely demands belief in certain principles of faith and that no good works in life are required to be morally righteous.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

DeeDee

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 01:00:13 PM »
Thanks buddy  :girlheart: Hope ur doing well. Love ur new pic BTW. Its such a pretty cross.

Anyhow I get sort of what the Unatarian belief is - God is one - but I can't really find if they all believe that;

a) everyone lands up in Heaven oneday?
b) only some (majority) lands up in Heaven oneday?
c) ET exists?

The references on the net that I find only basically mention what I mentioned above. I am not talking about Christian Unitarians, or Unatarian Universalists etc. I want to know about Unitarians themselves. Their original beliefs.

Thanks
Dee

DeeDee

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 01:02:44 PM »
In other words, what was it that Servetus believed in and got killed for? (Was'nt he one of the first Unitarians?).

Blessings
Dee

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12895
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 01:52:02 PM »
In other words, what was it that Servetus believed in and got killed for? (Was'nt he one of the first Unitarians?).

That sounds a typical question that Martin can answer.
I'll just stick with my quoute.

Quote
....reject the doctrine ... that God chooses to ... ruin or corruption of the mass of humanity.
How much the mass of humanity is I can't say exactly. But to me it implies >80% are saved.
ET only saves 5% so it far from what Unitarians believe.

Note that 100% is also >80%. The text is not clear about that.

It also seems you need to be very careful with that word:
Quote
The term "Unitarian" (with an upper case "U") usually refers to the liberal branch of this theology, but the term "unitarian" (lower case "u") is sometimes used descriptively to refer to anyone adhering to the teaching of the single personhood of God. In the United States, "Unitarian" is sometimes used, somewhat incorrectly, as a shortened way of referring to present-day adherents of Unitarian Universalism.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Pierac

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 07:21:41 PM »
In other words, what was it that Servetus believed in and got killed for? (Was'nt he one of the first Unitarians?).

Blessings
Dee

No DeeDee,

The apostles and Jesus Himself were Unitarian. They believed in the one true God.


"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord (Master; King), Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia On account of) whom we exist. 1Co 8:6 

Joh 17:1  Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3  "This is eternal life, that they may know You, (Father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24).  Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"?  He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Fatherů" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father.  Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus' own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heavenů"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

"Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14) 

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, "  (Eph 5:20) 

" We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "
( Col 1:3 )

"giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light." (Col 1:12)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17) 

This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus, to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ.

Jesus still has God after His ressurection... Rev 3:12  'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

One can not be God and have a God, it is impossible.

Mal 2:10  "Do we not all have one father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously each against his brother so as to profane the covenant of our fathers?
 
So can you guess who the Unitarian is on this site?    :boyheart:

For some reason this topic seems to upset people, so I will not post on this any further, if you have questions then P.M. me. A house divided can not stand.

Paul



rhellis

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 09:22:56 PM »
I am a Unitarian in the original sense of the word. The basic idea is that "the Trinity" is a man made doctrine that does not reflect the New Testament, much less the old. There is one God-- we might experience God in different ways (i.e. Jesus, the Holy Spirit), but they are all one and the same and in fact the one God manifests himself in all people.

The Trinity doctrine serves as a barrier to God, a tool of the pagan church. In Genesis, God starts the whole shabang by creating man to both represent him and to bear his real presence-- God breathed into Adam, the son of God. We are all God's sons, being perfected by the suffering of this life, growing into the full stature of God. Jesus completed this process first, thus he was the firstborn. I do not worship Jesus of Nazareth. I worship the one God. Jesus represented God, that God is love, and through God, I love my fellow man. Don't take me wrong, if Jesus, whom I love, walked through the door here, I would fall at his feet. But of course, he would quickly say, "Get up, and cut that out-- there is none good but God-- and your brethren need your love much more than I do." 

That Jesus was so unpretentious, eating drinking with the sinners(and getting into it, don't you know!), so human, so servile and weak-- these are the marks of his Diviness, NOT the false marks of the Divine that humans typically try to display.

valueallhumanlife2008

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 11:03:48 PM »
Unitarianism is a doctrine and it has nothing to do with salvation.  The Unitarian Universalists believe all will be saved because they are universalists.  However they're a little more on the pluralistic universalist side.  They no longer consider their faith to be christian.

Now back to Unitarianism.  You have Unitarianism and Trinitarianism.  They both believe in one god, however they are different.  Trinitarianism is the belief that God is eternally manifest in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  Unitarianism is the belief that God the Father is God alone and that the Son and the Holy Spirit are lesser created beings. 

Personally, I am a Trinitarian since the scriptures say that Jesus was worshipped and was divine, and the scriptures say that there is only one God.

Offline Pierac

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 03:25:57 AM »
Unitarianism is a doctrine and it has nothing to do with salvation.  The Unitarian Universalists believe all will be saved because they are universalists.  However they're a little more on the pluralistic universalist side.  They no longer consider their faith to be christian.

Now back to Unitarianism.  You have Unitarianism and Trinitarianism.  They both believe in one god, however they are different.  Trinitarianism is the belief that God is eternally manifest in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  Unitarianism is the belief that God the Father is God alone and that the Son and the Holy Spirit are lesser created beings. 

Personally, I am a Trinitarian since the scriptures say that Jesus was worshipped and was divine, and the scriptures say that there is only one God.

One has to be careful with the term Unitarian Universalists!   I am a Unitarian only in the sense that I believe God is one!  Not 3 in one. Most Unitarian Churches are very liberal, I how ever am very conservative.  I believe no one can come to the Father except through His Son, Jesus. There is no other way.  I would not consider my self aligned with Unitarian Universalists, as they are way too Liberal! 

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11247
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 05:59:38 AM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

DeeDee

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 07:16:33 AM »
Thanks all. Was just curious since I read about Servetus. I understand now.
Did not mean to start a topic that is going to make anyone uncomfortable. Sorry for that.

Blessings
Dee

Offline Pierac

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 07:39:37 AM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

Labeling people with out proof or examples does not help you. No one can help you unless you share scriptural examples. I have always found labeling is the first stage, before the murdering begins, you can see this all through history. Many self proclaimed christians have become drunk off the blood of the saints. I would hate to see you go down that path.  :2c:

Paul

Offline Pierac

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
  • Gender: Male
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 07:44:58 AM »
Thanks all. Was just curious since I read about Servetus. I understand now.
Did not mean to start a topic that is going to make anyone uncomfortable. Sorry for that.

Blessings
Dee

Yes, Servetus was murdered by a fellow Christian who disagreed with His views on the Trinity. Thank God, we have move forward, now one only gets thrown out of the Church. No more burning!  :eek:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 07:57:48 AM by Pierac »

martincisneros

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 07:56:11 AM »
A great book on Michael Servetus would be "Out of the Flames" by Lawrence and Nancy Goldstone.  It covers a whole lot of historical material, but reads like either a conspiracy theory or like a historical thriller.  It's very deeply informative, yet at the same time written in a way where most people would probably read it at least twice, perhaps thrice.
Did not mean to start a topic that is going to make anyone uncomfortable.
If you feel like anybody started tripping out over the subject coming up, either on this thread or via PM, don't worry about it.  If it hadn't been this, then it would have been something else.  Unfortunately, many of the Christian Universalists you'll talk with online have a root of bitterness.  They're able to simply say "hi" and make your blood curdle and all of the hair stand up on the back of your neck.  They'll see the look on your face and be all "WHA?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 'cause they didn't say anything wrong.  And that "WHA?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" will make you want to turn and run rather than to try to explain it.  I always just put the face of a member of the Addam's Family on anyone that comes across to me that way, so that I can keep smiling, grinning, and even entertain a certain morbid curiosity about them. :icon_jokercolor:  I can enjoy absolutely any forum that way.  If anyone creeps me out, then that's ol' what's his name with the light bulb in his mouth again!  Any out of place disapproval that I feel is just the Butler making his comedic disapproving sound over the flow of the conversation, but if I'll stick it out I'll get to hear him jam on the harpsichord. :laughing7:

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11247
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2008, 08:12:17 AM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

Labeling people with out proof or examples does not help you. No one can help you unless you share scriptural examples. I have always found labeling is the first stage, before the murdering begins, you can see this all through history. Many self proclaimed christians have become drunk off the blood of the saints. I would hate to see you go down that path.  :2c:

Paul

I'm not going down any path.  I just have to scratch my head and wonder.  And, I do see this happening more and more with all churches of all denominations.   But, we also see it in the erosion of the morals of an entire nation.   So I'm just commenting on what I see in that particular denomination in my area which is a pretty secular place to begin with, but this church stands out as one of the most secular.

Paul Hazelwood

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 03:54:59 PM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

Labeling people with out proof or examples does not help you. No one can help you unless you share scriptural examples. I have always found labeling is the first stage, before the murdering begins, you can see this all through history. Many self proclaimed christians have become drunk off the blood of the saints. I would hate to see you go down that path.  :2c:

Paul

I'm not going down any path.  I just have to scratch my head and wonder.  And, I do see this happening more and more with all churches of all denominations.   But, we also see it in the erosion of the morals of an entire nation.   So I'm just commenting on what I see in that particular denomination in my area which is a pretty secular place to begin with, but this church stands out as one of the most secular.

The view that Universalism takes is generally considered heretic and many accusations abound concerning the risk of leading people into hell.

So what is it specifically that concerns you as compared to denominations of churches telling people they are doomed if they do not march their drumbeat?




rhellis

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2008, 10:36:14 PM »
This may be getting thick-- but the primary doctrine of the Trinitarians is "creatio ex nihilo"-- the view that God made all things of nothing. Thus we are all on an entirely different plain from God. Jesus then, if he is divine, must be unique in his divinity, having crossed over from the God plain-- certainly not one of us who are made of nothing.

Unitarians (in the Christian sense) like myself believe that God is in all and all is in God. God is the plain of all existence, not a seperate plain of existence. It's not that we believe Jesus to be less than God-- it's just that we believe everyone comes out of God, exists in God, and returns to God. (Romans 11:36 actually says this in the Greek). All are in God's image, all have God breathed into them. Our God is named I AM. In order to invoke his name, I must invoke the personal pronoun by which I am called.


Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11247
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2008, 10:39:53 PM »
This may be getting thick-- but the primary doctrine of the Trinitarians is "creatio ex nihilo"-- the view that God made all things of nothing. Thus we are all on an entirely different plain from God. Jesus then, if he is divine, must be unique in his divinity, having crossed over from the God plain-- certainly not one of us who are made of nothing.

Unitarians (in the Christian sense) like myself believe that God is in all and all is in God. God is the plain of all existence, not a seperate plain of existence. It's not that we believe Jesus to be less than God-- it's just that we believe everyone comes out of God, exists in God, and returns to God. (Romans 11:36 actually says this in the Greek). All are in God's image, all have God breathed into them. Our God is named I AM. In order to invoke his name, I must invoke the personal pronoun by which I am called.



12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


--John  1



Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 09:48:48 AM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

Info for you DeeDee,
   Molly is referring to the Unitarian Universalist (UU) denomination which accepts any and all belief/non-belief systems into their 'churches'. Atheists, Satanists, Buddhists, whatever.
   You are originally asking about a Christian Unitarian, which is not a UU, but a believer in Jesus who does not believe in the church doctrine of the 'trinity' (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit). They simply believe that the Father is the one God, who has a Son (Jesus) and has a Spirit (Holy Spirit).

Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2008, 09:53:21 AM »
I'm not sure how you can tell them apart anymore.  The Unitarians around here do the book of the month club instead of studying the Bible.  They seem to be as secular as you can get and still call yourself a church.  People tend to use this kind of church as a dating or social club.

Labeling people with out proof or examples does not help you. No one can help you unless you share scriptural examples. I have always found labeling is the first stage, before the murdering begins, you can see this all through history. Many self proclaimed christians have become drunk off the blood of the saints. I would hate to see you go down that path.  :2c:

Paul



LoL - I don't think Molly is in line for vampirism, but I bet the UU church down the street from her would accept her if she was - as long as she was a loving vampire who promised to get blood only from turnips   :winkgrin:

DeeDee

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2008, 09:58:45 AM »
Quote
Info for you DeeDee,
   Molly is referring to the Unitarian Universalist (UU) denomination which accepts any and all belief/non-belief systems into their 'churches'. Atheists, Satanists, Buddhists, whatever.
   You are originally asking about a Christian Unitarian, which is not a UU, but a believer in Jesus who does not believe in the church doctrine of the 'trinity' (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit). They simply believe that the Father is the one God, who has a Son (Jesus) and has a Spirit (Holy Spirit).

Now that you mention it bothe the Christian and Universalist Unitarians beliefs interest me. I read somewhere that one of the Unitarian beliefs is that not all go to heaven - only certain groups or something. Thats the part of their belief that interests me. For the reason of why they believe this and who do they believe goes to heaven.

Offline firstborn888

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1080
  • Gender: Male
  • Not all those who wander are lost
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2008, 10:27:44 AM »

Now that you mention it bothe the Christian and Universalist Unitarians beliefs interest me. I read somewhere that one of the Unitarian beliefs is that not all go to heaven - only certain groups or something. Thats the part of their belief that interests me. For the reason of why they believe this and who do they believe goes to heaven.

The UU denomination has no creed - you believe whatever you want. The unitarians do not have a creed either, except that God is not three persons.

I have observed this though - quite a few Christians who come to a knowledge of UR end up going unitarian as well. 

DeeDee

  • Guest
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2008, 10:41:39 AM »
Thanks Gramps  :wink:

Good explanation

Blessings
DeeDee

BTW - you have the most gorgeous grand baby.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11247
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 08:39:08 PM »
Our God is named I AM. In order to invoke his name, I must invoke the personal pronoun by which I am called.

Remember, Jesus named Himself I AM on several occasions, making Himself equil to the same I AM who talked to Moses at the burning bush.

The self-descriptions of Jesus in John that are preceded by the I Am (The I am is emphatic in the Greek)
(1) I Am the bread of Life (6:35)
(2) I Am the light of the world (8:12) cf. Psalm 27:1, 36:9; 2Sam.22:29
(3) I Am the door of the sheep (10:7-9)
(4) I Am the good shepherd (10:11,14) cf.Gen.48:15; Psalm 23:1, 80:1
(5) I Am the resurrection and the life (11:25) Psalm 36:9; Deu.32:39
(6) I Am the way, the truth and the life (14:6)
(7) I Am the true Vine (15:1,5)

The inescapable conclusion of these I AM statements is to bring us back to the I Am (Jehovah) of the Old Testament.

Brian



4 And so Jesus witting all things that were to come on him, went forth, and said to them, Whom seek ye?

   5 They answered to him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith to them, I am. And Judas that betrayed him, stood with them.

   6 And when he said to them, I am, they went aback, and fell down on the earth.

--John 18


Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 8964
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: What do Unatarians believe in?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2009, 04:08:04 AM »
While trying to find more info on the original lyrics to Silent Night, I stumbled onto a wesite of a Unitarian "Church"...they had a list of songs for their upcoming services, and a closing/exit song they had listed was "When I'm Sixty-Four, by John Lennon and Paul McCartney"   :pointlaugh:...never heard 'em play that one in the AG or Baptist denominations

I was in a praise band once in a congregation that was transitioning from the older hymn-based music to a more contemporary worship.  Vestiges of the old guard still existed in the forms of an old lady who had played the piano there for many years, and a dude on the organ that used to play at roller rinks.  So they'd play prelude music before the rest of us joined in, and I kid you not...even though it was driving the minister of music crazy and he finally said if they played that song one more time he would...I don't remember, but it was funny...the song they kept cranking out to set the mood for "worship" on Sunday mornings, was that holy, dignified and sanctified Elvis song, "Crying In The Chapel"  :laughing7:...oh man that's still funny.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23