Author Topic: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR  (Read 886 times)

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ragamuffin34

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Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« on: November 23, 2007, 01:39:08 AM »
Hey there folks, I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on family relationships where most in the family are Christians who do not believe in UR.  I know in my case, my family are wonderful, loving people, and it's not like they  want anyone to go to hell or even talk about hell very much, but they believe that all adults must make a conscious decision of trust in Jesus before death to be saved - I think they believe this mainly because it is what they have always been taught and how they read the Bible, etc. 

I don't talk about my belief in UR with my family because I don't want to make waves or have them think that I've drifted from what they see as the true faith.  Also, I think sometimes I am afraid to ask their opinions about things (for example, what they think will happen to people who never even have an opportunity to hear about Jesus) because I am afraid they might take the hardline fundamentalist position and that that would change my generally high opinion of their characters.  I feel like I have a great relationship with my family on most levels, but it bothers me sometimes that I feel like I cannot talk with them openly about my belief in UR.  I was wondering if anyone else had similar or related experiences and how you deal with them. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 01:41:40 AM by ragamuffin34 »

ragamuffin34

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2007, 05:58:35 AM »
bump

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2007, 08:50:32 AM »
Just to not be able to find in the Bible anything that said we were to disappear before the great tribulation when I was searching for it meant rejection.  I was thrown out of fellowships for asking where did the Bible say it.  I really was asking.  How could I believe or teach others unless it was written?  I didn't know enough to trust my use of concordances yet, specially for something that wasn't there.  My family, Assembly of God Pastors, rejected me for years because I couldn't find any part of 1.) racially gentile believers 2.)disappearing 3.) before the first of at least two last trumpets 4.) prior to the 5.) seven years tribulation.  For the understandings I entertain now this seems by comparison trite.

I wasn't even accepted as a Christian.

That I was a poor kid, barely out of my teens and some of us new believers lived together in a shared house meant to them I was a cult member.  It took me years to find that out.  We were often in Bible study and encouraged every member participation; but, I didn't go to their demonination's steeple houses.  I actually went to at least half a dozen different Churchs of various sorts.  To be underemployed and uneducated was supposed to be my choice.  I was getting what I deserved, reaping what I'd sown and had made my bed and now had to lie in it.  I was not allowed to even visit my family for 20 years, and then it was because I was in their city with friends that on their own initiative over my protests drove me there so I could say hello unannounced.  My dad did one time mention a couple things that indicated he didn't want to discredit his professional standing by association with me.

By the time I first believed (1 Tim 4:9-11) the living God is the savior of all mankind, and there is a special salvation for the believer about 17 years ago I realized I'd finally gone too far so I marked the time on my watch (3 am, July 18, 1981.)  Eventually, around the time of my parents retiring from the ministry, I got to share Biblical Universalism with them both for about an hour.  They said nothing in response, though my mother, who felt submission to my Father was an uncompromisable Divine mandate, hinted with some approving murmurs and glances.  Nothing ever since, though in her eighties, with dad dead, she does let me over the phone bring the salvation of all up in some context briefly...she quickly tires of any "doctrine" however.  My sister is non-committal.  And so it goes.

Other people don't have to know everything we believe.  A strong tree has deep roots.  Sometimes it's good for them to witness your Godly life for a time before they find out you've thought differently all along, in a way they possibly think you can't be a very good Christian, if at all.  As I've gotten older though, I regret a lot of my getting along with other people rather than being totally abandoned to Jesus.  But that means intimacy in all things, submitted to his leading, not foolishly saying things he never asked us to say.  There's certainly mercy if we are persecuted even for conscience's sake.  God will bless us even if in our zeal we speak out of turn, as it were.  Multitudes know Jesus personally that are wrong or ignorant in so many ways.  Jesus doesn't see fit to correct all that at this moment, sharing with those who love him with stumbling walk and dim and faulty knowledge.  I'd recommend meditating on and memorizing until readily available such Scriptures as are in the article on this site:  "A Unique Proof for the Doctrine of Universal Salvation"   http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
  Then you have clearly stated "verses" to share when you tell people that if you're deceived, it was by the Bible.
---James Rohde
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 05:04:39 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Kratos

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2007, 09:15:09 AM »
Interesting timing for this topic as I just shared what I believe with my Mom and Aunt last Sunday. We had a bad winter storm and were without power for 8 days. We managed to do without most things, but I was not going to miss my Seattle Seahawks football game. So, I went to my Mother's house where she lives with her sister and in the course of the game they asked why I have not started a church yet since we returned.

I took a deep breath and told them that during my time alone with the Lord since I returned here 2 years ago, I have learned some new things about the Lord and the Bible that will probably make me a heretic with most Christians.

When I 'spilled it', my Aunt said that she never believed in Hell and my Mom just said that it makes sense to her and I must be true to my own heart. That was it and we were back watching the game.

They never have been real committed Christians as far as attendence and this can be a blessing when it comes to being flexible. They, also, said that the church may get mad, but most of the people not in church will love hearing the truth.

I never knew this, but my Aunt told me my grandmother died hating God because a preacher told her at my cousins funeral that he was in Hell for committing suicide. My Aunt said that she tried to bring up God again when she was dying and she said she could never love a God who was torturing her grandchild.

John
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ragamuffin34

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 06:58:27 AM »
Wow, thanks to both of you for your responses.  You offer a lot of wisdom and your consideration really means a lot.

I never knew this, but my Aunt told me my grandmother died hating God because a preacher told her at my cousins funeral that he was in Hell for committing suicide. My Aunt said that she tried to bring up God again when she was dying and she said she could never love a God who was torturing her grandchild.
That is just awful.  I'm so sorry for your grandmother.  I hope/believe she has gotten to know a much more loving God than she was shown on earth. 

My Sunday school teacher from high school recently committed suicide.  I really hope nobody tells her family stuff like that.  Although, if they do, I pray that I will have the presence and strength to witness of a greater love.

Gizmo

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2007, 03:50:12 AM »
I never knew this, but my Aunt told me my grandmother died hating God because a preacher told her at my cousins funeral that he was in Hell for committing suicide. My Aunt said that she tried to bring up God again when she was dying and she said she could never love a God who was torturing her grandchild.

Hating a God like that is the health response.  What I find sick is the people who actually believe and teach that anti-Christ clap-trap.  Christianity sure can turn decent people into monsters....

gijane02

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 07:36:55 PM »
Wow, I used to think that myself, people going to hell for killing themselves. None of that is in scripture. Judas killed himself, but it doesn't say anything about where he went after he died. I can't believe how programmed we can be.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2007, 08:32:10 PM »
 :cloud9: I have a story to share about where people go that commit suicide. I was doing home health, had been assigned to spend day's with my boss's mom who had almost been killed in a car wreck. He couldn't find anyone that she liked to stay with her, she sent 3 of them packing the first day. I got there and found out it was because she was a Spirit-filled Christian and she didn't want anyone tending to her, who wasn't. So we began to pray for her family and others, and have fellowship every day.

She decided to let the hospital's aide give her a bath instead of me, so we could have more uninterrupted God time. So this woman aide from the hospital comes in, and one day, the Lord draws my attention to her and I asked her if I could pray for her. I found out later she only agreed because she thought I meant, "add her to my prayer list." 

When she said yes, I "pounced" on her before she could change her mind, and began to pray; the Lord said to her, "Forgive your father, he didn't understand. He is with Me."

She immediately burst into sobs; just then HER boss, a supervisory RN walks in the door, trying to figure out why her aide is sobbing on this patient's couch. The aide excuses herself and bolts out the door. By the grace of God, the RN was my high school best friend I had not seen in years, so I was the distraction.

The aide had a week's vacation, so for a whole week, we wondered why the aide lost it when I gave her the Word from the Lord. When she returned, she recounted how her father, who was a Christian, could not get free of an alcoholic spirit. He would become violent towards her mother, brother and her. He finally became convinced that he was going to kill them at some point, so during the last row the police were called as he had a hunting rifle after them, and he was taken to jail. He killed himself in the jail, after he sobered up and they told him what he had done. My now best friend, the aide, was only 13 when it happened, and all her mother's church friends "comforted"  :sigh: them by telling them he was in hell.

So by the time of that day on the couch, the aide who was now in her 40's, had gotten mad at God (and her father) over what he did, and had never stepped foot in a church since the day of her father's death, UNTIL He spoke to her that day. She related this story to us and told us she was in a church that very night she received the Word, and found one open somewhere every night of her vacation, no matter what the denomination, she was in one.

Until that, I never really had any idea on what happened to people that committed suicide. I figured that was the Lord's business, and kept my mouth shut. I'm so glad I did. Blessings to all......
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 04:32:07 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Kratos

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Re: Relating to Family Who Do Not Believe in UR
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 02:25:11 AM »
The whole Hell for suicides seems to come from a belief that comes from I Jn. 1:9 which teaches that every time that we sin, we must confess that sin or it is not forgiven. Thus, the reasoning is that you commit a murder that you can never confess if you kill yourself.

But, the Bible says that we must obey every ordinance of man just like it says that we shall not kill. So, why is it any different if you die in a car accident driving 75 in a 55 mph zone? in either case, you die from a sin you are committing at the time of your death that you did not have time to confess.

Anyway, I am glad that Hebrews 10 clearly says that Jesus has perfected forever those who are sanctified and that with one sacrifice, He paid for every sin I have ever committed or any I will ever commit. our confession is a confession of faith in Jesus and our confession of His Lordship over our lives.

John
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