The right way, vs. being right.

[Lefein]

There were two men who where sent by God to do good in an inner city.  One was a Universalist, the other a Damnationalist.

The Universalist spent his time teaching people that God would be all in all, teaching doctrines, and revealing apologetics to the unclothed, unfed, prostitutes, drug dealers, pimps, and homeless.  He pointed out the errors in the King James bible, and laid out the information concerning Aion, and Olam - tore down the idol of Calvinism, and burned the Asherah pole of Arminianism, and denounced the Hell that is Molech before their eyes!

Ah, a mighty warrior indeed, a great soldier for the faith!  God's man of power for the hour!  Tearing down false doctrines, and calling fire from Heaven before the priests of the Baalim!

The Damnationalist brought food, water, clothes, and information on half-way houses, prayed for the sick, prayed for the needy, prayed for deliverance of these people from Hell, and taught them that Christ loved them so much that he gave his only begotten son to free them from Hell if they should only believe and say the sinner's prayer.

His doctrine on Hell was wrong, he was semi-calvinistic, yet believed staunchly that in order to be saved one must accept Christ and confess or Hell is their home.

The Universalist converted none, the hungry, the naked, the whore, the druggie, the pimp, the poor - they were deaf to his preaching, and all were ignorant of what he was saying, it was almost as if he were speaking in a dead language long lost.

The Damnationalist drew many to their knees; the hungry were full, the naked were warm, the whore, and druggie had hope of escape, the pimp saw his error, and the poor saw the Gospel proved by action - they received the preaching, and everyone had some inkling of what Heaven was, especially now that they had a taste of Hope that is the very air of Heaven itself, many gave their lives to the service of their Lord that day.

Now, the Universalist was right in his doctrine, the Damnationalist was not.  The Universalist had knowledge, and doctrine and shared it, the Damnationalist though wrong in his doctrines and not all that wise at all, had fruit, and shared it.

God desires fruit, over correct doctrine.  The Spirit is Life, and the Spirit bears fruit, the Letter kills...

God would rather have a generous fool who shares his bounty, than a scribe who shares naught but the letter and his interpretation of it - You see, God can teach the fool, and have a double blessing of a son who is as generous as he is wise.  But the one who is wise in his own heart, and correct in his doctrine even, but has yet to share from his own bounty...what use is he to God's purposes?  Little.

God would rather you be on the right way, but not yet have arrived, than to be right in your studies, while your heart is far from him.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Yes indeed, no belief system outweighs doing good to all.

[thinktank]

Great story lefein    Love is greater than knowledge or pride.

[willieH]

willieH:  Hello to all

This story is a fantasy which is not true in FULL or even PARTIAL application... of the 2 positions mentioned...

With several Unbiblical premises mentioned in it... noted in RED ...as well as false statements in BLUE

There were two men who where sent by God to do good in an inner city.  One was a Universalist, the other a Damnationalist.

The Universalist spent his time teaching people that God would be all in all, teaching doctrines, and revealing apologetics to the unclothed, unfed, prostitutes, drug dealers, pimps, and homeless.  He pointed out the errors in the King James bible, and laid out the information concerning Aion, and Olam - tore down the idol of Calvinism, and burned the Asherah pole of Arminianism, and denounced the Hell that is Molech before their eyes!

Ah, a mighty warrior indeed, a great soldier for the faith!  God's man of power for the hour!  Tearing down false doctrines, and calling fire from Heaven before the priests of the Baalim!

The Damnationalist brought food, water, clothes, and information on half-way houses, prayed for the sick, prayed for the needy, prayed for deliverance of these people from Hell, and taught them that Christ loved them so much that he gave his only begotten son to free them from Hell if they should only believe and say the sinner's prayer.

His doctrine on Hell was wrong, he was semi-calvinistic, yet believed staunchly that in order to be saved one must accept Christ and confess or Hell is their home.

The Universalist converted none, the hungry, the naked, the whore, the druggie, the pimp, the poor - they were deaf to his preaching, and all were ignorant of what he was saying, it was almost as if he were speaking in a dead language long lost.

The Damnationalist drew many to their knees; the hungry were full, the naked were warm, the whore, and druggie had hope of escape, the pimp saw his error, and the poor saw the Gospel proved by action - they received the preaching, and everyone had some inkling of what Heaven was, especially now that they had a taste of Hope that is the very air of Heaven itself, many gave their lives to the service of their Lord that day.

Now, the Universalist was right in his doctrine, the Damnationalist was not.  The Universalist had knowledge, and doctrine and shared it, the Damnationalist though wrong in his doctrines and not all that wise at all, had fruit, and shared it.

God desires fruit, over correct doctrine.  The Spirit is Life, and the Spirit bears fruit, the Letter kills...

God would rather have a generous fool who shares his bounty, than a scribe who shares naught but the letter and his interpretation of it - You see, God can teach the fool, and have a double blessing of a son who is as generous as he is wise.  But the one who is wise in his own heart, and correct in his doctrine even, but has yet to share from his own bounty...what use is he to God's purposes?  Little.

God would rather you be on the right way, but not yet have arrived, than to be right in your studies, while your heart is far from him.

GOD seeks TRUTH to be in ALL which IS the WAY and pathway ALL are upon.  The TRUE condition of the heart varies in men within both positions... and it is THAT which is done apart of observation of others, that is the TRUE condition of the heart... 

No offense to the writer of this post... but... aside from this as a percieved tale of only two men, ...it attempts to point to ALL involved in the 2 positions... as well as falsely generalizes the work of men in the two positions contained in the story as well...

As I see it FROM EXPERIENCE and INVOLVMENT with BOTH positions... for ex----------tended periods... "damantionalist" = 25 years / "Universalist" = 10 Years...

I have known and experienced both variables in both positions, as men in either position are IMPERFECT and shall be until they both experience the resurrection of GOD... and the Salvation contained IN IT...

To begin with NO "damnationalist" nor "universalist" has EVER "brought even ...ONE person... to their knees"... it is GOD which brings ALL men to their knees... and in doing so, ...uses men in either position, as instruments HE WORKS in bring them "to their knees"... each in his own order.

This FANTASY in its projection, AS I SEE IT, ...is definitely a COMPLETELY inaccurate and generalized misperception of the 2 positions noted ("damnationalist" vs "universalist")     And implies that ALL which are amidst these 2 observations are as described above... 

Generaliziing that all "Damnationalists" will be about helping folks...  is just FALSE... and implying that as those who are actually amidst helping people (of course not ALL of them are),  ...leaving out the FACT... that they are every bit about teaching their positions and observances of the WORD to them...  whilst insisting they are "RIGHT" in that teaching...  (just tune into the "damnationalist" TBN channel --   )

And in the same "Generalizing"...  inferring that all "Universalists" will not be about helping people, ...as well as the Universalist being insistent upon being "right"...

I do agree with PH's comment... that doing right to others exceeds being right. 

However, that said --- NO MAN (regardless of what his doctrinal or belief system is), ...will be "right" about everything...    NOR will any MAN be helping people and not teaching them his views... just because he believes in one position or the other... Or NOT helping people because of the doctrinal position he/she holds...

As far as MY actuall LIFE EXPERIENCE goes... I was involved in the Salvation Army for 20 years (Hell believing/ET damnationalists), ....and the 7th Day Adventists for 5 (non-HELL, but annhilationist believers)...  TWO LARGE and WORLD WIDE -- Organizations which are VERY ACTIVE in their outreach to not only the individual local community, but to the WORLD, as well... 

...willieH 

[Cardinal]

  Give a man a fish and you've fed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll feed himself forever. BOTH are needed, and being led by the Holy Ghost to be all things to all men in DUE SEASON, is letting the Holy Ghost do the works. As many as are led by the SPIRIT, they are the sons of God.

That said, just because none came to the Lord "that day" doesn't mean HE isn't working in them for fruit that remaineth, and the ONLY THING that remaineth is Christ (the firstborn fruit of the WOMB that receives a double portion) and HIS works, which are not always immediately visible. Blessings....

[Lefein]

Its okay WillieH, various groups and people had a lot of trouble with Jesus' parables too.  And I being his servant, why should I expect to not have the same reactions as my master, The Lord Jesus Christ son of Yahweh. :)

And like the parables of Christ, some are don't understand its meaning.  Some however, got it easily. ^^

[shawn]

Good post Lefein.  Most of us came to Christ after being preached to by an ET preacher.  And while this is a story the point is noted.  I highly doubt a single one of us has doctrine without flaw.  But, I believe many here love Christ.  I think it's important to keep this in mind or we might find ourselves becoming prideful.  I am preaching to myself.  I must realize how little I know or I can fall into the trap of pride.  That pride can bring spirit of division to my tongue and pen.

[micah7:9]

Act 26:14  and, when we were all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice, saying unto me, in the Hebrew language—Saul! Saul! why, me, art thou persecuting? It is hard for thee, against goads, to be kicking!

[willieH]

Its okay WillieH, various groups and people had a lot of trouble with Jesus' parables too.  And I being his servant, why should I expect to not have the same reactions as my master, The Lord Jesus Christ son of Yahweh. :)

It is nice that you are His servant... I claim the same... That you might observe what I say as veiled compared to your own and deducing that understanding is yours, and not mine, ...is the active use of vanity as the measure. 

I do not measure you, rather, I challenge you... the OP was filled with Unbiblical statements and false assumptions which I pointed out, and which you have yet to address... 

As far as the Parables of CHRIST... I do not have any trouble with the wordings of CHRIST... but shall never claim with an audacity, that states that I have COMPLETE understanding of them, as I, in LIFE have been taught within it, ...that I always have things to learn of CHRIST no matter what "understanding" I percieve I have gained, ...how about you, bro? 

Matter of fact... If you think the Parables are a matter of your "complete understanding"... I would just love for you to begin a discussion upon any one of them and see what you convey as the "complete understanding" of any of them might be... 

And besides, the Parables really have nothing to do with the fact that the generalizations you made in your story are not true when applied to ALL in either "belief system"... 

And like the parables of Christ, some are don't understand its meaning.  Some however, got it easily. ^^

FIRST --- more assumption made by one who shall not address points made... 

SECOND --- Like I said... no one can truthfully claim PERFECT "understanding" of any given Scripture or set of Scriptures... for they by doing so, confine GOD to further enlighten them of those WORDS... which is an unwise "claim".

Understanding of the WORD of YHVH is "ORDAINED" and is GIVEN by GOD as is "VEILING" -- Matt 13:11 -- Rom 11:25 -- and that "understanding" is not given to an individual, does not make the individual LESS than one that has been given it, for it is GOD who chooses "WHO KNOWS WHAT and WHEN they shall KNOW it"! 

Those who "got it easily" were availed the EYES and EARS to see and hear... which should be recieved with humility and thanksgiving, ...certainly NOT to be used as a means to demean another, because they have not been given sight and hearing... 

LIFE teaches this same lesson... those who MOCK a sightless person on the basis they are greater for they HAVE SIGHT or those who MOCK a deaf person on the basis that they are greater, for the CAN HEAR... are FOOLS... and PROVE that they are UNDESERVING of the GIFT they have been so blessed to have. 

Rom 11:25 -- is quite clear that MOST of those to whom JESUS spoke were BLINDED by God... so, "understanding" was unavailable to them... really, ...not much has changed... MOST are yet BLIND that bear the name of CHRIST to the WORLD -- Matt 7:22-23 / Matt 24:5

The Jews were "well meaning" and respectful in their service to YHVH... but "understanding" beyond SURFACE observation was not given to MOST of them, when CHRIST's presence upon the earth was availed... 

It is GOD which adds to the church -- Acts 2:47 -- men do not "add themselves" by some internal motivation originating in themeselves... it is by the IRRESISTIBLE call of GOD which "adds them" -- Rom 9:19

The "fault" God finds in those which He finds fault, is not due THEM -- 1 Cor 3:15 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- rather is due that which they DO/say or DO NOT -- DO/say, for only via HIS WILL and DRAWING can they "do or say" according to Him and HIS WORD... 

This is why MANY shall come in His name bearing EMPTINESS, while thinking the works they do, and the message they bring, ...is "WONDERFUL" -- Matt 7:22 -- Thinking themSELVES, as "full of fruit"... when all the while they have centered their "doings and sayings" upon the EMPTINESS of THEMSELVES:

Matt 7:22 --  MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord... have ...WE... not prophesied in Thy name?  and [have WE] in Thy name cast out devils? and [have WE] in Thy name DONE many wonderful works?

So the "MANY" which (which easily could be the "damnationalists" in your "story" -- for they are "MANY") come in the name of CHRIST and shall be doing the very same thing that CAIN did in the end...  -- bringing their OWN works and doings to Him... which, as with CAIN... are UNACCEPTABLE to Him... 

...Dost thou have "understanding", bro? 



...willieH