Author Topic: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)  (Read 20291 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #150 on: June 11, 2012, 10:44:06 PM »
"Idiom" #19 - Kiss the son.

As requested by Anna247
(Ps 2:12 [ACV]) Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, for his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all those who take refuge in him.

Means:
- Bow down in homage.
- Do homage with purity.


Very likely it's bad translation that crept in after the 5th century. Partly because of poor translations skills and likely mostly because 'they' wanted it to refer to Jesus.
nash-ku bar
Hebrew: Bar = pure
Hebrew: Ben = son
Aramiac: Bar = son

Translators wrongly assumed the verses contained Armiac words

It's said/assumed the verse refers to Psalm 2:7 about king David
(Ps 2:7 [ACV]) I will tell of the decree. LORD said to me, Thou are my son, this day I have begotten thee.

1Samuel 10:1 - And Samuel took the vial of oil, and poured it on his [Saul's] head, and kissed him. And he [Samuel] said [to Saul], "Indeed, the Lord has anointed you to be a ruler over His inheritance."
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 03:05:31 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #151 on: June 11, 2012, 10:45:19 PM »
Idiom #20 - Rightly dividing the word of truth

(2Tim 2:15 [ACV])
Be diligent to present thyself approved to God, an irreproachable workman, correctly traversing the word of truth.

Ancient Hebrew and Greek knew no spaces or punctuation. Not even upper and lower case letters. So originally the whole book of Genesis was one huge string of letters.
Does dividing point to cutting of that string into word, verses and chapters? Likely not because dividing seems to have another meaning than cutting up.
- Proper handling
- Rightly explaining
- Cutting a straight path in the right direction

(Prov 3:6 [NET]) ​​​​​​​Acknowledge him in all your ways, ​​​​​​​and he will make your paths straight.
(Prov 11:5 [ACV]) The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way, but the wicked man shall fall by his own wickedness.

The above two verses use the same Greek word in the LXX translation (which was made by 2nd century BC by a team of 70 Rabbis)
The verses seem to be about proper guidance and/or interpretation.


What does "word of truth" mean?

Whole Bible? Just the OT or NT. Every religious teaching? Something else?

(Eph 1:13 [ACV]) In whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the good-news of your salvation, in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
(Col 1:5 [ACV]) because of the hope being reserved for you in the heavens, which ye heard before in the word of the truth of the good-news

The word of truth seems to point to Jesus' direct teaching only. Of course it doesn't mean the OT and other NT books are false but imo it's zooming in on the Gospels.

(2Tim 2:16 [ACV]) But shun profane babblings, for they will advance to greater impiety,
(2Tim 2:17 [ACV]) and their word will have a feeding field like gangrene, of whom are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
==> Avoid all none Gospel teachings at all cost.


2 Timothy 3
10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Timothy is instructed by Paul to teach only what he learned from him. Of course that doesn't point to all sort of OT teachings every Jew knew by heart.

My interpretation of this:
Timothy must pass on the teaching of Jesus in it's purest form. No mixing with other teachings.
So it has nothing to do with:
- An instruction to divide to the Bible into words, verses and chapters.
- Neither does it mean the OT is past glory or something similar.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #152 on: June 11, 2012, 10:45:44 PM »
Idiom #21 - with four eyes

Meet "with four eyes" means meet face to face without anyone else present.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #153 on: June 11, 2012, 10:46:08 PM »
Idiom #22 - neither bears nor forest

Something completely false
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #154 on: June 11, 2012, 10:46:30 PM »
Idiom #23 - buried his hand in the dish

Someone idles his time away.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2012, 11:00:36 PM »
[size=-1]Teachings of YESHUA the Pharisee (Summaries in italics)[/size][size=-1]TALMUDIC Teachings of the Pharisees (Summaries in italics)[/size]
[size=-1]The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. - Mark 2:27[/size][size=-1]Rabbi Jonathan ben Joseph said: For it is holy unto you; I.e., it [the Sabbath] is committed to your hands, not you to its hands. - Talmud: Yoma 85b[/size]
[size=-1]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. - Matthew 25:45[/size][size=-1]One who betrays his fellow, it is as if he has betrayed God. - Tosefta Sh'vuot, ch. 3[/size]
[size=-1]Insulting someone is like murder.- Matthew 5:21-22[/size][size=-1]He who publicly shames his neighbour is as though he shed blood.- Talmud: Bava Mezia 58b[/size]
[size=-1]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. - Matthew 5:28[/size][size=-1]One who gazes lustfully upon the small finger of a married woman, it is as if he has committed adultery with her.- Kallah, Ch. 1[/size]
[size=-1]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.- Matthew 5:45[/size][size=-1]Rabbi Abbahu said: The day when rain fails is greater than [the day of] the Revival of the Dead,for the Revival of the Dead is for the righteous only whereas rain is both for the righteous and for the wicked - Talmud: Taanit 7a[/size]
[size=-1]Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 6:1[/size][size=-1]In the case of the recital of the Shema', since everybody else recites, and he also recites, it does not look like showing off on his part; but in the case of the month of Ab, since everybody else does work and he does no work, it looks like showing off.- Talmud: Berachot 17b[/size]
[size=-1]But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth. - Matthew 6:3[/size][size=-1]What kind of charity is that which delivers a man from an unnatural death? When a man gives without knowing to whom he gives. and the beggar receives without knowing from whom he receives. - Talmud: Bava Batra 10a - 10b[/size]
[size=-1]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.- Matthew 6:7[/size][size=-1]If one draws out his prayer and expects therefore its fulfilment, he will in the end suffer vexation of heart, as it says, Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. - Talmud: Berachot 55a[/size]
[size=-1]Do not worry about where your food will come from tomorrow, or your drink. - Matthew 6:25-31[/size][size=-1]Rabbi Eliezer the Great declares: Whoever has a piece of bread in his basket and Says. 'What shall I eat tomorrow?' belongs only to them who are little in faith. - Talmud: Sotah 48b[/size]
[size=-1]Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. - Matthew 6:34[/size][size=-1]A parable: [They were] like a man who was kept in prison and people told him: To-morrow, they will release you from the prison and give you plenty of money. And he answered them: I pray of you, let me go free today and I shall ask nothing more! - Talmud: Berachot 9b[/size]
[size=-1]Let your Yes be Yes and your No be No. - Matthew 5:34-37[/size][size=-1]A righteous yes is a Yes; a righteous no is No. - Talmud: Bava Batra 49b[/size]
[size=-1]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. - Matthew 11:25[/size][size=-1]Rabbi Johanan said: Since the Temple was destroyed, prophecy has been taken from prophets and given to fools and children. - [/size][size=-1]Talmud: [/size][size=-1]Bava Batra 12b[/size]
[size=-1]And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. - Matthew 5:29-30[/size][size=-1]Come and hear what was taught: Rabbi Tarfon said, 'If his hand touched the membrum let his hand be cut off upon his belly'. 'But', they said to him, 'would not his belly be split'? 'It is preferable', he replied, 'that his belly shall be split rather than that he should go down into the pit of destruction'. - Talmud: Niddah 13b[/size]
[size=-1]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. - Matthew 23:8[/size][size=-1]Shemaiah used to say: love work, hate acting the superior, and do not bring thyself to the knowledge of the ruling authority. - Mishnah: Avot 1:10[/size]
[size=-1]Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44[/size][size=-1]Even as R. Zera, who, whenever he chanced upon scholars engaged thereon [I.e., in calculating the time of the Messiah's coming], would say to them: I beg of you, do not postpone it, for it has been taught: Three come unawares: Messiah, a found article and a scorpion. - Talmud: Sanhedrin 97a[/size]
[size=-1]Yeshua taught in a parable that they can please the king (God) by pleasing one another. - Matthew 25:40

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. - Matthew 25:40[/size]
[size=-1]Rabbi simeon said: if three have eaten at one table and have not spoken thereat words of torah, [it is] as if they had eaten sacrifices [offered] to the dead, for [of such persons] it is said, for all tables are full of filthy vomit, [they are] without the All-Present. But, if three have eaten at one table, and have spoken thereat words of torah, [it is] as if they had eaten at the table of the All-Present, blessed be he, as it is said, this is the table before the LORD. - Mishnah: Avot 3:3[/size]
[size=-1]Love your enemy. - Matthew 5:43[/size]
[size=-1]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; - Matthew 5:43[/size]
[size=-1]They who are insulted but insult not back; who hear themselves reproached but answer not; who serve out of love and rejoice in their affliction--of them it is written in Scripture: They that love God are as the going forth of the sun in its might. - Talmud: Yoma 23a, Gitin 36b, Shabat 88b[/size]
[size=-1]Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matthew 5:23-24[/size][size=-1]If a man said, "I will sin and repent, and sin again and repent", he will be given no chance to repent. [If he said,] "I will sin and the Day of Atonement will effect atonement", then the Day of Atonement effects no atonement. For transgressions that are between man and God the Day of Atonement effects atonement, but for transgressions that are between a man and his fellow the Day of Atonement effects atonement only if he has appeased his fellow - Mishnah: Yoma 8:9[/size]
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2012, 12:08:43 PM »
Idiom #24 - Rightousness and Salvation

Matt 5:10 God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right,  for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
Several problems with the above translation. Some simply because the words used in the original text had several meanings. Giving the verse a bit more depth which was lost in the translation process.

Persecuted which was translated from Greek can also mean "pursue".  The Hebrew word for "persecuted"also has that double meaning. But "persue" is it's primary meaning.

The Bible translator chose to translate diuku (Greek) with persecute because of the following two verses that deal with persecution.

11 "God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you[a] and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way.


Bivin & Blizzard comment that the sudden shift of the pronoun from the third person to the second is
"a clear indication that these verses were not originally a part of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, but a part of another context or story. They were probably placed after Matthew 5:10 by the editor of Matthew's source because of the word "persecution", which appears in both passages."

Doing right/rightousness is a Hebrew idiom (also) meaning "salvation"

Theirs is to strong wording because they don't own the Kingdom but are just part of it.

Combine that with Idiom#2 that explains the kingdom already arrived.

So a more correct translation would be:

Matt 5:10 Blessed are those who pursue salvation, for such as these are in the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2012, 12:28:32 PM »
Idiom #25 - Giving and borrow


(Matt 5:42 [ACV])
Give to him who asks thee, and turn thou not away from him who wants to borrow from thee.

The above is Hebrew poetry. Hebrew poetry doesn't rhyme but it repeats the same concept in slightly different words.
So if the second part means borrow, so must the first part mean borrow.

Ask - Hebrew word with 3 meanings. 1] ask a question. 2] Request 3] Borrow something that can be returned. For example a shovel.
Borrow - Hebrew word meaning borrow something that can be returned in kind. Like borrow money or flour.

It's not another subject it's explaing not to take revenge
(Matt 5:39 [ACV]) But I say to you, not to resist what is troublesome, but whoever will strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Neither does the verse teach to give everything away because it's about loans. Not giving to everyone who asks. Be good stewards of your talents/coins Mat 25:14-30
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:05:44 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2012, 12:48:18 PM »
Idiom #26 - Fulfilling and destoying the law

Math 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

Does this verse contradic:
(Rom 10:4 [YLT]) For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing,

Is or isn't Jesus abolishing the law? It's idiom time again...  :laughing7:
It may come as a suprise for some but the Rabbi's didn't always agree   :mblush:
When they didn't agree with a interpretation of another Rabbi they said he (the rabbi) was destroying the law (by misinterpretation)
The other Rabbi then replied he was fulfilling the law (correctly interpretating the law)

So in verse 17 Jesus simply claims He has come to give the only correct interpretation of the law.
He doesn't add, remove, change, destroy, etc. He explains it how it was meant to be for millenia.
The ancient laws will outlive heaven and earth.



Jesus didn't destroy/change the law but the following verse clearly shows He ended the law.

(Rom 10:4 [YLT]) For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing,

Again the answer is found in the changing of word meanings. Or in this case added word meanings.
Originally Torah=Instruction ===> Written laws directly commanded by God.

The written law was vague at points. It for example didn't decribe what "work" is. So Rabbis added lots of oral laws (which were penned down in ~200 AD)
In Jesus time the combination of written and oral laws got the name "the law". Primary or secondary meaning. Perhaps just among Rabbis. I don't know. But Jesus was refering to the combined law. He removed the manmade oral law which was never law in the eyes of God. But He left the written law fully in tact.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:53:58 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #159 on: June 18, 2012, 12:55:24 PM »
Idiom #27 - Giving

(Matt 5:20 [CLV])
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that (WW: righteousness) of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Should we follow the law even better than those extreme Scribes and Pharisees?

Righteousness originally had the meaning of deliverance/salvation; but during the time of Jesus it had a secondary meaning of alms giving.
For Pharisees  prayer, fasting and alms giving were the three most important things of righteous life. Alms giving being the most important of them all. It became so important that alms giving became a synonym for righteousness/salvation/deliverance.
The Hebrew word is tsedakah
Scriptural tsedakah = Salvation ==> broad meaning ==> bigger meaning
Pharisee tsedakah = alms giving ==> narrow meaning ==> smaller meaning
Basically the Pharisees believed they could buy salvation by giving alms.

Jesus uses both meanings in one verse.

So Jesus said: If you want to enter heaven your definition of tsedakah should be the bigger (as in wider) than the narrow alms giving tsedakah definition of the Pharisees and Scribes.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:45:33 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #160 on: June 18, 2012, 01:07:41 PM »
Idiom #28 - Voilence in God's Kingdom?

Matt 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence,[a] and violent people have been raiding it

Professor David Flusser discovered the key to understanding it through an old rabbinic midrash. This verse alludes to Micah 2:13 One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their king will pass through before them, the Lord at their head (NIV). This verse pictures the shepherd taking the stones of the pen away in the morning, therefore "breaking open the way" for the sheep to get back out, which is the Hebrew word parats (ץרפ)[18]. While the breach-maker and the king are the same in Micah 2:13, rabbinic interpretation says that the breach-maker is Elijah and the king the Messiah. Jesus, hinting at that, is therefore saying, "The Kingdom of heaven […] is breaking forth […] and every person in it is breaking forth […] individuals within the Kingdom are finding liberty and freedom." (Bivin & Blizzard 1994:86). Jesus is here declaring himself to be the Messiah, John the Baptist being Elijah. Jesus is the shepherd who leads the sheep out and onto the green fields.

So basicly the verse means Kingdom is storming the world. (in a positive way)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #161 on: June 18, 2012, 01:17:13 PM »
Idiom #29 - Binding and loosing.

Matt 16:19 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Bind=prohibited and Loose=allow. Both in relation to rules given in the OT according to rabbinic interpretation.
But also:

Jesus was giving Peter the authority to make decisions and rules, which the young church would need (see Acts 6:1-6, Acts 15). As Stern puts it, Jesus makes Peter "both (1) shammash ("steward") […] with the keys, and (2) dayan ("judge"), who, as the one who can prohibit and permit, establishes new covenant halakhah"


http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980703_i.html
(Matt 16:19 [CLV])
I will be giving you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens, and whatsoever you should be binding on the earth shall be those things having been bound in the heavens, and whatsoever you should be loosing on the earth, shall be those having been loosed in the heavens."

Original meaning of bind: tie up, imprison, tether an animal or hitch a cart.
Translators used those meanings when they translated from Hebrew to Greek. The Greek is correctly translated to for example English. But....
... the word meanings where taken from the LXX, a 2nd century BC Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures.
After the LXX was written the Hebrew word 'bind' got an additional meaning. A meaning that at Jesus' time was the primary meaning. Same for Loose. At Jesus' time the new meaning of the words were used extensively in Rabbinic teachings.
Bind = Forbid  ==> It was bound to work on Sabbath. (bound by law)
Loose = Allow ==> It was loose to walk to the Temple on Sabbath.

Jesus gave Peter authority to make decisions. "Heaven" would back up those decisions.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:37:07 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #162 on: June 18, 2012, 01:35:23 PM »
Idiom #30 - The eye is the lamp of the body

Matt 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

The above verses mean praying, fasting and almsgiving should be done in secrecy. Not just to put up a show.

Lightfoot explains the Matthew passage as a metaphor for generosity and
covetousness, calling it a "usual manner of speech of the nation". He equates a good
eye with generosity and an evil eye with stinginess, quoting Tractate Trumot of the
Talmud:
This is the measure of Truma (offering given to the priests). A good eye
yields one out of forty: that is the fortieth part. The school of Shammai
says, one out of thirty. A middle eye, one out of fifty. And an evil eye, one
out of sixty. He that gives a gift, let him give with a good eye: and he that
dedicates anything, let him dedicate it with a good eye.


Geza Vermes, in his book The Religion of Jesus the Jew, further explains this in
relation to other Jewish writings of the times. Vermes finds parallel between the Gospel
writings of the eye and the lamp and the sayings of Eliezer ben Hyrcanus who equated
the "good eye" with the "good way" (mAb. 2:9) – in other words, proper religious
behavior. Additionally, Vermes ties in the dualism of light and dark found in the Qumran
writings to the Gospel writings. If the eye is good, it fills the body with light, otherwise
darkness would be victorious – the fear of such dualism. In 4Q186 ("Horoscopes"), it is
taught that people consist of a nine-part mixture of light and darkness. The Teacher of
Righteousness, focusing on the individual, implies that a good eye is a divine gift as is
the light that it brings.



1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

  • Guest
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #163 on: June 18, 2012, 02:45:59 PM »
Hi WW:  I've checked my hard copies of idioms, etc., looking for "one language" (Gen 11:1) can't find anything.  In your electronic storehouse of treasures, do you have any information on "one language"...it seems to me it must have special significance.  Language is so fascinating... I guess words are... and especially the Word of God...  thanks, anna 

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #164 on: June 18, 2012, 05:38:39 PM »
Hi WW:  I've checked my hard copies of idioms, etc., looking for "one language" (Gen 11:1) can't find anything.  In your electronic storehouse of treasures, do you have any information on "one language"...it seems to me it must have special significance.  Language is so fascinating... I guess words are... and especially the Word of God...  thanks, anna
I created a new thread here.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #165 on: June 19, 2012, 08:28:46 AM »
Idiom #31 - Judgement and salvation

Psalm 43:1 Judge me, O God

Isaiah 59:9-14
New International Version (NIV)

Isa 59
9 So justice is far from us,
    and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
    for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
11 We all growl like bears;
    we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
    for deliverance, but it is far away.
14 So justice is driven back,
    and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
    honesty cannot enter

In all the above verses judgement equals something good like rightousness and salvation.


Mat 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Read Psalm 122 in which Jerusalem is called city of Salvation with several thrones.
Parallel between psalm 122 and Mat 19:28

Of course judgement can be really negative; but the word itself certainly isn't all doom and gloom.
Context.....

(Matt 12:18 [ACV])
Behold, my Boy whom I chose, my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will declare justice to the Gentiles.

(Isa 42:1 [ACV])
Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights. I have put my Spirit upon him, he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

(Ps 43:1 [ACV])
Judge me, O God, and plead my cause against a profane nation. O deliver me from the deceitful and unjust man.

(John 3:17 [ACV])
For God sent the Son into the world not that he might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

(the noun salvation is only 7 times in the Gospels

The Hebrew word for Judgement, judging, etc very often means saving, to save etc
Jesus came to save not to judge.
When David was is trouble he called for help (salvation) not the negative meaning of judgement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Judg 11:27 [ACV])
I therefore have not sinned against thee, but thou do me wrong to war against me. LORD, the Judge, be judge this day between the sons of Israel and the sons of Ammon.

(Isa 33:22 [ACV])
For LORD is our judge. LORD is our lawgiver. LORD is our king, he will save us.

(Gen 18:25 [ACV])
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay a righteous man with a wicked man, that so the righteous man should be as the wicked man. Far be it from thee. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

(Ps 94:2 [ACV])
Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth. Render to the proud a recompense.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Luke 22:30 [ACV])
that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(Ps 122:1 [ACV])
I was glad when they said to me, Let us go to the house of LORD.

(Ps 122:2 [ACV])
Our feet are standing inside thy gates, O Jerusalem.

(Ps 122:3 [ACV])
Jerusalem, that is built as a city that is compact together,

(Ps 122:4 [ACV])
where the tribes go up, even the tribes of LORD, [for] an ordinance for Israel, to give thanks to the name of LORD.

(Ps 122:5 [ACV])
For there thrones are set for judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

(Ps 122:6 [ACV])
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. They shall prosper who love thee.

(Ps 122:7 [ACV])
Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces.

(Ps 122:8 [ACV])
For my brothers and companions' sakes I will now say, Peace be within thee.

(Ps 122:9 [ACV])
For the sake of the house of LORD our God I will seek thy good.

Jersusalem, city of salvation.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:17:50 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #166 on: June 19, 2012, 08:45:38 AM »
Idiom #32 - My task

Luke 12:49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Hebrew meaning: My task is to cast fire on earth, how can I wish it's already burning.

So, imo, this verse says Jesus is the Judge but is not looking forward to it.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #167 on: June 19, 2012, 09:32:44 AM »
Idiom #33 - Face

(Luke 9:29 [ABU])
And it came to pass, while he was praying, that the appearance of his countenance became changed, and his raiment white and glistening.

countenance = face

(Exod 34:29 [AKJV])
And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

34 Yet whenever Moses entered before Yahweh to speak with Him he took away the covering until he went forth. When he came forth, then he spoke to the sons of Israel that which he was instructed.
35 And the sons of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses's face gleamed. Yet Moses restored the covering on his face until he entered to speak with Him.

Moses and Elijah spoke to Jesus on the mountain. The Hebrew OT has 3 major divisions.
The Law (Moses), The Prophets (Elijah) and the Writings.




(Luke 9:32 [ACV])
But Peter and those with him were weighed down with sleep, and having become awake, they saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him.
(Luke 9:33 [ACV])
And it came to pass, as they were departing from him, Peter said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here, and we could make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah, not knowing what he was sayi
(Luke 9:34 [ACV])
And while he was speaking these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them. And they were afraid as they entered into the cloud.
(Luke 9:35 [ACV])
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son. Hear ye him.(=obey)
(Luke 9:36 [ACV])
And at the occurrence of the voice, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent, and informed no man in those days any of the things that they have seen.



(Exod 33:9 [CLV])
It came to be as Moses entered the tent that the cloud column descended and stood at the portal of the tent, and He spoke with Moses.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #168 on: June 19, 2012, 09:39:22 AM »
Idiom #34 - Face, showbread and Jesus

This idiom is dedicated to Cardinal   :cloud9:


(Luke 9:44 [CLV])
You be laying up these sayings in your ears, for the Son of Mankind is about to be given up into the hands of men."

An Hebrew idiom meaning more than just listening. It emphasises the words that follow are of extreme importance and should be remembered.
I don't know there is a similar English idiom (sharpen your ears?). The Dutch one is: Knot it in your ears. Or point your ears.
The idiom refers to a promise God made to Joshua. The war with the kingdom of Almelek will take a long time but eventually Israel will win.
But God didn't speak to Joshua directly. He spoke to Moses who passed on the message to his disciple Joshua. In the same way Jesus passed on the message to His disciples. The disciples knew every bit of the OT; so to them this little verse refers to a large portion of Jewish history. Their was added symbology for the Jews because (for them) Amalek symbolisized satan.
So Jesus warned the Disciples that they would be under constant attack (led by satan)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Face.

Let's face it, face is an idiom for 'the Lord'

(Isa 63:9 [YLT])
In all their distress He is no adversary, And the messenger of His presence saved them, In His love and in His pity He redeemed them, And He doth lift them up, And beareth them all the days of old.

Presence=face=the Lord
They where save by the angel of the Lord.

In the Temple there is a table of showbread/shewbread. It seems to be a poor translation. An attempt to translate an unknown Hebrew idiom.
(Num 4:7 [ACV])
And upon the table of showbread they shall spread a cloth of blue, and put on it the dishes, and the spoons, and the bowls and the cups with which to pour out. And the continual bread shall be on it.

(Num 4:7 [CLV])
And over the table of the presence they shall spread a blue cloth, and they will put on it the dishes and the spoons, the waste pans and the libation chalices. Also the continual bread shall be on it.

Presence=Face=Lord.
It just means table of the Lord with on top of it bread of the Lord.
Literal Hebrew reads: "Table of the Face" and "Bread of the face".
For what it's worth; my guess is that there is  a connection to the Last Supper table.

Not every "face" means Lord. It's never easy
(Luke 9:51 [CLV])
Now it occurred in the fulfillment of the days of His taking up, He fixes His face steadfastly to go to Jerusalem."
In this case it simply means walk in the direction of Jerusalem.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #169 on: June 19, 2012, 09:42:20 AM »
Many idioms posted in this thread I posted before the forum issues. I recovered many using Google. Below I'll quote Cardinal and Eaglesway to keep some continuity in the chat about shewbread.
  I like, WW     He once spoke to me concerning the bread, and He called it the "bread of His presence", to me.
 
My   .....it represents the natures (face denoting nature) of the 12 tribes/12 apostles being formed as Christ in us.
 
They are His represented as His body, ie. He broke the bread and said this is my body which was broken for you. He wasn't JUST talking about His physical body; He has a body that has always been.
 
Face denotes nature; if you see someone walking towards you a long way off, you don't know who they are until you get close enough to see their face. Blessings....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #170 on: June 19, 2012, 09:43:00 AM »
I replied:

"He" isn't clear enough for me.
He-Father or He-Son?
My guess from the context is He-Father because that aligns perfectly with what I wrote.

"bread of His presence"
His=Father
Presence=Lord=Jesus=Son
"bread of Father's Son"

Can you agree with that interpretation?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #171 on: June 19, 2012, 09:43:50 AM »
Cardinal replied:

  Yes, I can.....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #172 on: June 19, 2012, 09:44:23 AM »
Eaglesway replied
Amen!

Shewbread

H6440
פּנה  /  פּנים
pânîym  /  pâneh
BDB Definition:
1) face
1a) face, faces
1b) presence, person
1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
1d) face (of animals)
1e) face, surface (of ground)
1f) as adverb of loc/temp
1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before
1g) with preposition
1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H6437

The bread of presence was set upon the table of "presence bread", or the communion table in the tabernacle, representing the fellowship in the love of God that is our bread that we break, the love between us in the Spirit, the koinonea and sharing of our union and harmony in one spirit as one soul with one heart. The Lampstand being the symbol of the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ the Spirit of Prophecy (a lamp shining in a dark place until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in our hearts). It is His presence, because He was broken, among us, let us then be broken for one another so that the Light of Day will shine out from the Tabernacle of Living Stones, the Tent of Meeting where the Lord dwells among His "called out ones" :o)

The brazen altar at the entrance was the place where baptismal washing sanctified the priests before they entered to minister unto the Lord. There was no admittance to the Holy Place until the "washing of the water with the word" was accepted by the one entering. A burial of my life in exchange for that life which awaits me within the middle court.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #173 on: June 19, 2012, 09:46:54 AM »
Idiom #35 - Son of ....

Luke 10
5 Now into whatever house you may be entering, first say, 'Peace to this household!'"
6 And if a son of peace should be there, your peace will be resting on it; otherwise, surely it will come back on you."

son of peace/house means a friend that's so close it's almost part of your family (family=house)

"Son of" is an idiom I can't explain. So I'll give a few examples.
Son of:
- the house => someone almost as close as familiy.
- death => deserves to die or condemned to die. When the Pilate sentenced Jesus He became Son of death
- gehenna => A person who surely will end up in 'hell'.
- Tentmaker ==> All dedicated members.
- eating ==> everything good for food.

So Luke said to greet the house (family). If they are friendly they welcome you. If not you retract your greetings and move on.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 09:55:18 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12893
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #174 on: June 19, 2012, 09:54:08 AM »
Idiom #36 - Baptism


49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

(Matt 3:11 [CLV])
For I, indeed, am baptizing you in water for repentance, yet He Who is coming after me is stronger than I, Whose sandals I am not competent to bear. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,


Were the tongues like fire (Acts 2:3) the baptism with fire?

Luke 12:49-50 is Hebrew poetry which repeats the same thought in different words.
Two OT examples

(2Sam 20:1 [CLV])
....`We have no portion in David, and we have no inheritance in the son of Jesse; each to his tents, O Israel..
Portion = inheritance
David = son of Jesse

(Hos 13:14 [CLV])
From the hand of the unseen will I ransom them; from death will I redeem them. Where is your plague, O Death? Where is your sting, O Unseen? Regret shall be concealed from My eyes."

Ransom=redeem
Sheol=death


49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Baptism = fire
Baptize = cast
 


Came=past tense. Also in the Greek it was translated from.
Greek like English has a complex tense system. Simple past, present perfect, past perfect, past continuous, past perfect continuous etc.
Hebrew has only one past tense (that can have the meaning all mentioned above)
So the correct tense must be determined from context.

"I am come" doesn't always mean that person came to the place where you are standing. I can also mean "my task is"

(Luke 12:49 [ACV]) My task is `Fire I came to cast to the earth, and what will I if already it was kindled?

49  My task is to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

"what will I" is a correct translation from the Greek text. But in Hebrew "what can also mean "how".

49  My task is to send fire on the earth; and how will I, if it be already kindled?
"how" is a parallel (poetry) to verse 50
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Fire stands for judgement. Did Jesus really want the fire/judgement had already started? Nope.
(John 3:17 [YLT])
For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

"will I" is better translated as "How could I wish"

Still reading... :mblush:

Kindled/burning is a correct Greek translation. But the Hebrew word burn can mean: Burning, start burning and burn up.

Burn(ed) up is past tense. Accomplished is past tense. Another poetic parallel.
What is "it" refering to in "it be already kindled". Fire can't be burned up. So it must refer to earth.

"to be baptized" - again a correct Greek translation that in Hebrew also can mean "to baptize"
It's wasn't about Jesus being baptized but Jesus baptizing the earth.


I'm aware the above has become rather complex and messy. I hope you understand... :mblush:


 



Baptism was ritual to become ritual clean. Not only for humans but also for things. Jews baptized pots and pans to make the ritually clean.
A pot obviously can't baptize itself, so it's done by it's owner.
But people baptized themselfs. John the Baptist didn't really baptize people. He preached and persuded people to step into the Jordan and baptize themself. John stood on the river bank when Jesus baptized Himself.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:15:15 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...