The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)

[Molly]

Paul has it all for bringing the two languages and cultures together.  He's highly trained in the law and has the revelation of the gospel of peace directly from the source.   Both a Roman citizen and a Jew, he had to be multi-lingual.

I have found ancient Hebrew [which is a dead language] to be a much heavier language.  Yes, it has a lot of depth, but it is also heavy.  Greek is much lighter, and more appropriate to a light burden.

This is something the Jew's of the time just couldn't get--his yoke is easy and his burden is light.  We get that, though, don't we?  The lightness of his burden.  He does all the work.

Paul brings the two cultures together.  He is the apostle to the Gentiles, so I expect he was speaking Greek and Latin most of the time. 


2 Timothy 1:11
Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

[jabcat]

  Molly.

I'm startin' to wonder...

Several sects and churches claim that Jesus Christ and
the apostles only spoke Hebrew or Aramaic, and that
the original monographs of the New Testament were all
written in Hebrew, and later translated into Greek. They
consider Greek to be a pagan language. What is the real
truth of the matter? Did Jesus speak Greek?

The September-October 1992 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review contains several fascinating articles which bear heavily on the questions posed for this article. For centuries, scholars have believed -- assumed -- that very few Jews of the first century spoke Greek. They have believed, and taught, that ancient Judea was a "backwater" area of the Roman Empire, and the people were ignorant as a whole of the Greek language, although it is admitted that Greek was the "lingua franca" and "language of commerce" throughout the Roman Empire.

Today, however, new archaeological discoveries have undermined the speculations of scholars and brought into clear light the fact that Greek was well known among the Jews, especially the priesthood, leadership class, and the merchant class. In particular, Greek was well understood in "Galilee of the Gentiles," the region where Jesus Christ of Nazareth was raised, and grew up as a young lad. There is no doubt, therefore, that Jesus and the original apostles all spoke Greek -- commonly, as a "second language."

http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm

[Cardinal]

  My  .....

First of all, they have an extant copy of Matthew TODAY, written in Hebrew, so it's not a big stretch to conclude that they wrote the whole thing in Hebrew. Aramaic is a "sister" language to it. Greek was a way to HIDE IT, not reveal it, except on a very superficial surface level, when compared with what is both hidden and revealed, via the Hebrew. Another snipet.....

"One of the best arguments for proving that Hebrew was a commonly used language in Israel during the first century CE (AD) is through the evidence discovered in the archeological record. Letters from Shimon Ben Kosba (Simon Bar Kockba) have been discovered in the dead sea region and were written during the second Jewish revolt of 130-135 CE. These letters are written in Hebrew, not Aramaic or Greek. What is also interesting about these letters is that they use contractions, which can only come from a spoken language. We consistently use contractions such as "I'm" for "I am" or "wouldn't" for "would not". One of these contractions is the word tashmayim, the contracted form of "et hashamayim" (the heavens)."

I can see that the Orthodox Jews and anti-semitic pagans (even some Christians) alike, would have RUSHED to destroy all the Hebrew copies they could find, over hundreds of years. The Yahshua-believing Jews were were murdered off, along with their books.

Second, it's a HOLY language, given by God, and has more mysteries hidden within JUST THE LETTERS of it, and I'm not just talking about the "Bible codes" studies; it is an awe all by itself. But here's one of the most famous things found in the Torah, via the codes.

The word תורה (Torah) found in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible). Beginning with the first ת (T) in Genesis and counting every 50 letters you find the word Torah spelled out. The same is true in Exodus. However in the book of Numbers the word Torah is written backwards, the same is true for deuteronomy except in this case the sequence begins in verse 5 and at an interval of 49 letters instead of 50. The Torah sequence is not found in Leviticus but instead the Hebrew word יהוה (YHWH/Yahweh) is found at intervals of seven. It has been proposed that this code shows the Torah pointing to Yahweh;

TORaH > TORaH > YHWH < HaROT < HaROT

Third, He created the creation with it. If Christ and the Torah are one and the same, the Word (TORAH) made flesh, and we are told everything that was made was made by Christ, well........

Another snipet.....

"When we look at all the names of Adam's descendent we find that all the names from Adam to Noah and his children are Hebrew names, meaning that their name has a meaning in Hebrew. For instance, Methuselah (Genesis 5:21) is Hebrew for "his death brings" (The flood occurred the year that he died). It is not until we come to Noah's grandchildren that we find names that are of a language other then Hebrew. For instance, the name Nimrod (Genesis 11:18), who was from Babylon/Sumer/Shinar and possibly the Tower of Babel, is a non-Hebrew name. According to the Biblical record of names, Adam and his descendants spoke Hebrew.

In addition, Jewish tradition as well as some Christian Scholars, believed that Hebrew was the original language of man."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[thinktank]

It's a possibility that Hebrew will be the language of the future, since God will restore all of Israel to their promised land and restore the celebration of feasts and sabaths. If this being the case then perhaps God will also increase the intelligence of humanity so that they can understand Hebrew better, for it seems to be the case that ancient Hebrew was reserved only for the intelligent and those who are blessed by God intellectually i.e the gift of a spirit of wisdom, such as solomon had.

I have made a start already, eloihim means creator  , a long way to go though 
 

[Cardinal]

   I wouldn't be surprised......I've asked Him to let me understand it. I know He can do it in an instant.

[WhiteWings]

That very well could be tank, I'm certainly interested in more evidence.  However, I'm also wanting an unbiased, accurate translation;  which again, it appears it could be hard to find.   

Even the most honest and skilled translator can't turn a bad source into something good. But as strange as it may sound transltion the Greek back to Hebrew give linguists some hints to correct a few think in the Greek (and other languages)
But if the Hebrew copies are all destroyed.... well then the translations are never as good as they could have been.
Scholars have been very sure for centuries the Greek was s bad because it was written by uneducated men. Until they found evidence for a Koine dialect.
Scholars have been very sure for centuries Hebrew wasn't spoken in Jesus time. Until the DSS prived otherwise.
So maybe Hebrew documents will be found someday. (I woldn't be suprised they are in the vatican.....)

[jabcat]

So maybe Hebrew documents will be found someday. (I woldn't be suprised they are in the vatican.....)

Now right there you might be on to something.  Wouldn't you like to know what all they're hoarding and hiding?   

[WhiteWings]

However, now there is evidence that Fundamentalists, like many Evangelicals and Charismatics, are coming under the baleful influence of the Hebrew Roots Movement. With this new development, there lurks the prospect that the Bible version debate may be resolved via compromise.  The Judaising movement, which has infiltrated culture and religion across the board, promotes an Aramaic/Hebrew New Testament over the Greek.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is based upon the false premise that the original Gospels were written in Hebrew, or possibly Aramaic, and that the Greek New Testament is a mere translation of Hebrew or Aramaic originals. The Jerusalem School of Synoptic Research, which has influenced the Messianic ministries on a broad scale, is a major source of this error. The theory of Hebrew originals of the Gospel accounts was propounded in a book published by the JSSR titled The Difficult Words of Jesus. Authors David Bivin and Roy Blizzard first cast doubt upon the original inspiration of the Greek gospels: quote]
It's usually hard to see clearly because all the mud throwing. One way to fight an opposing view is to discredit the enemy. I think Gary can tell you a few things about that.
The word infiltrated is used in a negative way. Freedom fighter to some. Terrorist for others.
The point is that the evedence supporting the Hebrew view seems to be stacking up . It's hard to admit you are wrong. But what's worse is that Hebrew originals come with a Hebrew mindset. And that Hebrew mindset is what they fear most. It dictates different translations/interpretations. And that means their denominations are wrong. And that's a very big deal in a world were people are prepared to start a war over the question if Jesus had black or brown sandals.
So the "infiltration" argument has zero impression on me because "they" have to much to lose. Sure the Jews would also love to see the Christians moving more in their way.
But if I look at the source of current Christianity, RCC church filled with statues of Roman gods, I can't say I'm unbiased.....

[WhiteWings]

God will restore all of Israel to their promised land and restore the celebration of feasts

That sounds good because the Jews have the most parties of all religions...
  

[WhiteWings]

First of all, they have an extant copy of Matthew TODAY, written in Hebrew,

The counter argument is that the Hebrew was translated from the Greek.
- Why would the Greek be translated to a dead language nobody speaks?
- Why didn't Jesus use Greek cultural concepts while speaking Greek; instead of using Hebrew cultural concepts that died with the language (a language doesn't just fade away without external factors that change culture)

There are also secular "hints" that the Romans actively started wiping out the Jewish heritage because Jews were a irritating bunch of people that always caused trouble in the Roman empire. And "now" the Christian Jews were also annoying the Romans with their own view on Christianity.


And even if Jesus only spoke (spake?) Greek and the writing are all 100% Greek inspired by HS it still doesn't mean the Hebrew is of no use.
Does anybody have a clue what "Knot it your ears." means. It's a Dutch saying that simply means. Remember what I say. Remember very well. Other cultures may think I'm suggesting to wear ear rings. So even then we need the HS inspired Greek with a OT Jewish cultural background.
It's about culture. Not language.

[lomarah]

What an interesting discussion! I was blessed with the chance to learn a tiny bit of the Hebrew language in university and it is such a beautiful language. I absolutely loved studying it. And Cardinal is so right, it is so full of meaning. I honestly do hope that we all speak Hebrew again someday. 

We are living in exciting times, in some ways it's great that the sacred name of Jesus has been hidden form the masses, because that name is blasphemed constantly, maybe this was Gods great wisdom to prevent the world blaspheming his sacred name, otherwise perhaps if his name, Hebrew name was blasphemed as much as Jesus is, the world might explode, because of the power of his name and the ingnorance of people concerning the power of the spirit world, for the tongue is a deadly weapon able to kill and destroy and also bring great blessings.
 

I found this interesting thinktank. There certainly is something about the name of Yeshua.

[Molly]

It's about culture. Not language.

It's not so much about culture as it is about the God of the Hebrew Old Testament.  If God were tied to culture, he would be a respecter of persons and most of us would be in trouble because most of us are not Jewish.

But, none of that can, or should, prevent us from knowing our God.  Something is lost in any translation, but we have the tools today to easily dig deeper into the Hebrew and Greek words.

If we have an idiom that makes no sense to us, such as a camel through the eye of a needle, isn't it possible to easily learn enough about that idiom to understand the meaning?

The Gentiles are not going to go backwards to Judaism.  Not only is the language dead, the religious impulse is dead.  I have left your house desolate...

Rather, they are going to come forward with us, to a better covenant than spoken of by the blood of Abel.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[Cardinal]

  I tend to think they are going to meet us in the middle 

[eaglesway]

White Wings,
    In no place have I suggested that their is an overlap between pagan religions and Christianity. I believe true Christianity is a relationship with the Creator through a revelation of Jesus Christ. I think it is important that you take the time to understand what a person is saying before you generate debate where none is necessary.
I certainly think we should pursue scholarship and the best translation we can obtain- as I said before. However, the Holy Spirit is the unique Commnuicator and Teacher of the scriptures. Without Him there is no discernment.
Illuminated by the Holy Spirit, is really easy to see the difference between YHWH and the principalities masquerading as gods of this world. They reveal it in their writings.

So we(the apostles/original witnesses) have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
(2Pe 1:19-21)

Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
(Rev 19:10)

You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
(2Ti 3:14-17)

Peace, John

Jab and Card, thx......Luv u guys!

[Gary Amirault]

I think Jabcat's quote is vital in trying to understand the origins of what has been incorrectly called the New Testament or New Covenant Scriptures. To label Matthew through Revelation as New Testament writings sets a stage on which we are doomed to fail in properly interpretting the contents of those writings. The New Covenant is NOT a set of Scriptures, whether written in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. Jabcat quoted:

(comment found re: this translation -   "I am all for learning about Jewish roots to better understand scripture, but it needs to be understood that Jesus "came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him" (John 1:11). Many gentile Christians falsely think that Messianic Jews have a better grasp of the scriptures simply b/c of their Jewishness. The truth is that some Jewish Christians still try to find there identity in their Jewishness instead of Christ. This is a huge mistake that leads to major theological errors. The author of this book sadly falls under this category. One such blatant error taught by this book is that Jewish Christians 'should' keep the dietary Laws or "Kashrut". The author does not submit to scripture (Jesus in Mark 7:19, Peter's Vision in Acts 10, Paul writing to the Galatians, and many more places). He tries to explain these passages away by appealing to a "Jewish understanding", but Jesus continually showed most Jewish understanding to be flawed. It is the spirit that leads into all truth (John 16:13), not Jewish roots or any other.")

Gary: My wife was raised Jewish and she came to faith before I did. From the very beginning of my walk with Jesus I had an insatiable appetite for understanding the Bible and the Holy Spirit.  I spend a great deal of time in Messianic Jewish congregations and read a lot of "Jewish roots" kind of material. I have read dozens of books on manners and customs in Biblical days, etc. I read several books and articles attempting to prove most if not all of the "new testament scriptures" were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, not Greek. ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION THESE PEOPLE (who wrote some very valuable information otherwise), taught a legalism that brought people into bondage of man-made laws, not the law of the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus. The difference between the Mosaic Law and the law of the Life in Christ Jesus is the difference  between life and death. I do not recall any particular article I've written or anyone else that lays down the differences well, I'm sure there are some good resources that clearly point to the differences. I know we have a Chart on the tentmaker site somewhere showing the differences between the Shadow of the Old Testament and the reality of the New. Perhaps someone can find it and post it here. But dear, brother and sister, a SERIOUS warning to you all, the law kills, whether written in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek when one understands how Paul used the phrase "the law." Cast out the woman and her son. The promises of God do not come to us by Moses. There is a higher law that the shadow of Moses cannot attain.

[Beloved Servant]

And this is why we must SPEAK to the rock and not STRIKE it.

[WhiteWings]

I think it is important that you take the time to understand what a person is saying before you generate debate where none is necessary.

If you had taken your own advise and avoided going off-topic we wouldn't even had this 'debate'. Very few seem (if any) even to understand what my intention of this topic is and was.
Gary is the prime example of that.
I'm done with it.

(feel free to continue about laws and HS)

[jabcat]

I wonder if it's possible to get the thread back to exactly what the original intent may have been.  I personally do think it's interesting whether or not the originals were in Hebrew or Greek.  However, maybe we can't fully know for sure?  Maybe what we have are impressions and opinions, as well as various and even opposite points of view.  That seems like one issue, and maybe what the OP was addressing?

Then IMO, there are other related issues, which it seems we wandered into - and I don't think just any one person is "guilty" of that - because that's what we have in this and any thread really, is related issues.  So seems to me one of those pertinent related issues would be, so whether Greek or Hebrew, then what does that mean?  How might it affect translations of certain words like aion (often tr. eternal) or gehenna/hades (often tr. hell), etc.  In essence, what difference might it make to us in our walk and as relates to UR.

For instance, the one Brauscher fellow who translated from Hebrew, still says "eternal torment".  So does Hebrew or Greek make any difference;  is he "right or wrong", and either way, then what does that mean?  Does it mean anything, or can't the Spirit of God reveal whatever God wishes from either one?  For example, there are at least a few members on here who actually read the KJV mostly, but are still able to "see" other things regarding the plan of God.  Personally, I do think translations make a difference, especially to the "masses" - because most don't look beyond the words on the page, so are heavily influenced by the mistranslations.

Thoughts? 

[Cardinal]

  @ WW......Personally, I've enjoyed the topic and I'm glad you brought it up. I have always trusted the HS to lead me into ALL TRUTH, and that includes gleaning from Jewish sources, knowing that where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

  I came to the knowledge of UR from the HS giving me revelation on the Tabernacle of Moses. It's not a new doctrine, as others have found out thru other means, it was just hidden from our eyes for a season, so to speak.

ANYTHING that is truth, has as it's root, the Hebrew "transmission" of the Torah, which includes in it the pattern for the Tabernacle, cited in Hebrews 10 as the pattern of HEAVENLY or spiritual things. Had I been taught originally by anyone (besides God), to study the Tabernacle of Moses, one cannot help but speculate on how much SOONER I might have come to the revelation of UR.

But He has ways of bringing all to the Truth, one way or another. Blessings...

[jabcat]

Truth will win out.   

Following my last post;  I think it's often hard to know what the absolute, most focused intent is when a thread is started.  It often pushes various buttons, as we all have our own thoughts, questions/issues we may be having at any particular time.  I understand the desire to know the languages of the originals, but also, that then things come up like "then should we be not only be paying more attention to what the Jews did, but following some of their practices, etc."...and I think that's what Gary's post is addressing;  the differences between following Judaism vs. living in the new covenant/age of grace as Paul instructed the ecclesia. 

So if those "related issues" have been addressed, maybe we can get a real clear explanation of what was intended with the OP and do some more exploring in that focused area?

[eaglesway]

Threads on forums are like conversations, they evolve and develop.

    IMO the Hebrew roots of the scriptures are important considerations regarding translation and understanding the mind of God bubbling out of the prophets and Jesus and the apostles. This is not the same as returning to the culture and the practices that the Hebrews practiced as they drew back from the heart of God, as Paul put it, "practicing the law in pursuit of their own righteousness". This is why Paul said that they are "enemies for the sake of the gospel but beloved for the patriarchs sake". Legalism is not so much a uniquely Hebrew root as it is a spiritual departure from the heart of God presently very much in evidence among Christians Gentile or Messianic. What God made for man(the Sabbath, for instance) can be turned into religious bondage so easily. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels is still real popular. Isaiah 58 speaks to this wonderfully.

  So, to me, perhaps it might appear that someone was talking primarily about understanding the scriptures, when they are actually trying to deal with the whole Jewish roots/Torah culture thing Gary was talking about- or vice verse.  The medium only allows a certain amount of post by post flexibility, so it is sometimes difficult to maintain continuity, hence, we have admins for when things break down or get confused. I am cool with that. :o)

 

[Quaesitor]

Jabcat said:

Personally, I do think translations make a difference, especially to the "masses" - because most don't look beyond the words on the page, so are heavily influenced by the mistranslations.

I'll have to disagree here, I think it IS important to have a faithfull translation but I believe that the Word is veilled for those it is to be veiled, so translation doesn't matter, we could all be reading Hebrew from the original writings and still preach that people are going to hell. Because as have been said, and it is important to repeat it often, it is the spirit of God which unveil the Word for us.

I've seen, from my very short experience, that those who hear the victorious gospel will hear it whatever words we might use and those who will not hear will ignore even the most obvious statements.

Where I believe the translation faithfulness to be important is in my own seeking of God and His marvelous plan. which is why I read from the CLV mostly ( and my first language is french) because I've yet to see a french translation that is not RIDDLED with interpretations.
Which is why also I find the hebrew originals to be interesting.

It is actually quite fearful for traditionnal evangelicals to be told that their translation is flawed...

[thinktank]

I think it is important that you take the time to understand what a person is saying before you generate debate where none is necessary.

If you had taken your own advise and avoided going off-topic we wouldn't even had this 'debate'. Very few seem (if any) even to understand what my intention of this topic is and was.
Gary is the prime example of that.
I'm done with it.

(feel free to continue about laws and HS)

What happened to your usual good self?  Gary doesn't post here often, your post didn't help much.

I think there are many posts here that are usefull to your topic, what are you complaining about?

[jabcat]

Jabcat said:

Personally, I do think translations make a difference, especially to the "masses" - because most don't look beyond the words on the page, so are heavily influenced by the mistranslations.

I'll have to disagree here, I think it IS important to have a faithfull translation but I believe that the Word is veilled for those it is to be veiled, so translation doesn't matter, we could all be reading Hebrew from the original writings and still preach that people are going to hell. Because as have been said, and it is important to repeat it often, it is the spirit of God which unveil the Word for us.

I've seen, from my very short experience, that those who hear the victorious gospel will hear it whatever words we might use and those who will not hear will ignore even the most obvious statements.

Where I believe the translation faithfulness to be important is in my own seeking of God and His marvelous plan. which is why I read from the CLV mostly ( and my first language is french) because I've yet to see a french translation that is not RIDDLED with interpretations.
Which is why also I find the hebrew originals to be interesting.

It is actually quite fearful for traditionnal evangelicals to be told that their translation is flawed...

I'm a little confused (which isn't the first time:).  You disagree that translation is important to people who are HEAVILY influenced by faulty translations?  Are you sure you read the entirety of my post, because I said people can get revelation reading the KJV, etc.  I agree God reveals as He sees fit, but I still think it's in peoples' best interests to have accuracy and truth - as much as possible. 

Maybe our experiences are different, because people I've dealt with are so indoctrinated by reading all their lives that "hell" is "eternal", and that most people will be tormented (tortured) forever, that again, they can't see past what they've learned all their life - and they go back to their written words in their faulty translation to "prove it" (even if just in their mind, because it's SO engrained).  I've personally seen that many people have read that and been taught it for 40-50 years, and because their translation and preacher (and most of Christianity) says it, then they are "absolutely sure" that it's so.  It was very helpful to me personally to hear about aion, gehenna, and their more accurate translations.   I'm not saying, and have never said that's all there is to it, but I personally believe it's important.   

Maybe we're talking about 2 slightly different things - or mostly saying the same thing differently.   
 
Blessings.