Author Topic: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)  (Read 24734 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 6131
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2010, 05:08:01 PM »
For me, it doesnt seem to make a difference if the NT was originally written in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic or Russian,
It is of zero importance in what language Jesus chose to teach.
But it is of significant importance to know in what language He thaught because a language has a lot of cultural bagage (sp?)

Example when a parent corrects a child in some cultures the child must look the parent in the eyes as proof it listens (let's assume thats how it's done in Greece).
In other cultures (let's assume Jewish) culture the child must look down to show shame (looking is rejecting the autorithy).

So when Jesus says the man was reprimanded and looked down it's important to know we should read that with a Greek or Hebrew mindset.
Some translation errors are based one wrongly assumed mindset.

Summary: The language is of zero importance. The culture attached to that language is of great importance for your understanding of scripture.....
 :2c:

because spiritually they are discerned;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2010, 05:11:25 PM »
For me, it doesnt seem to make a difference if the NT was originally written in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic or Russian,
It is of zero importance in what language Jesus chose to teach.
But it is of significant importance to know in what language He thaught because a language has a lot of cultural bagage (sp?)

Example when a parent corrects a child in some cultures the child must look the parent in the eyes as proof it listens (let's assume thats how it's done in Greece).
In other cultures (let's assume Jewish) culture the child must look down to show shame (looking is rejecting the autorithy).

So when Jesus says the man was reprimanded and looked down it's important to know we should read that with a Greek or Hebrew mindset.
Some translation errors are based one wrongly assumed mindset.

Summary: The language is of zero importance. The culture attached to that language is of great importance for your understanding of scripture.....
 :2c:

because spiritually they are discerned;
It snows.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Beloved Servant

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4290
  • David's sling
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2010, 05:53:24 PM »
Interesting.
Cultural understanding:
When Jesus turned the other cheek it was not in submission to the accuser but in defiance.

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2010, 06:44:14 PM »
Quote
Interesting.
Cultural understanding:
When Jesus turned the other cheek it was not in submission to the accuser but in defiance.
Good point David. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek

Straightforward interpretation
.....
The most straightforward reading of the passages in Matthew and Luke, however, suggests that the phrase has a more radical meaning: a command to respond to aggression by willingly exposing oneself to a further act of aggression rather than retaliating, retreating, or ignoring it.

A literal interpretation of the passages,
.......
At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.[3] The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality.
===> That the opposite how many peopel understand that verse.

Another good example of cultural understanding. Was Jesus kind by saying to give both the cloak and tunic? Or was He making a different statement?

By handing over one's cloak in addition to one's tunic, the debtor has essentially given the shirt off their back, a situation directly forbidden by Hebrew Law as stated in Deuteronomy 24: 10-13:
===> Surely Jesus didn't suggest to break a Biblical law so it sounds like it was not about giving away everything you have.

When you make your neighbor a loan of any sort, you shall not enter his house to take his pledge. You shall remain outside, and the man to whom you make the loan shall bring the pledge out to you. If he is a poor man, you shall not sleep with his pledge. When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the LORD your God.
By giving the lender the cloak as well the debtor was reduced to nakedness. Public nudity was viewed as bringing shame on the viewer, not the naked, as evidenced in Genesis 9: 20-27:

Noah was the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness.
The succeeding verse from the Sermon on the Mount can similarly be seen as a method for making the oppressor break the law. The commonly invoked Roman law of Angaria allowed the Roman authorities to demand that inhabitants of occupied territories carry messages and equipment the distance of one mile post, but prohibited forcing an individual to go further than a single mile, at the risk of suffering disciplinary actions.[4] In this example, the nonviolent interpretation sees Jesus as placing criticism on an unjust and hated Roman law as well as clarifying the teaching to extend beyond Jewish law.[5] As a side effect this may also have afforded the early followers a longer time to minister to the soldier and or cause the soldier not to seek followers of Jesus to carry his equipment in the future so as not to be bothered with their proselytizing.

Perhaps it's just me but the more I read on  the matter the more I feel it's more than just trival chit chat....  :2c:

/EDIT See also: http://donaldmsensing.blogspot.com/2003/12/turning-other-cheek-part-2.html
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 07:00:32 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4685
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2010, 06:59:26 PM »
Perhaps He turned the other cheek in the overcoming power of love. Love overcomes fear and defiance and reveals the heart of God.


Also, concerning language, the Holy Spirit taught me from the corrupted words of the KJV that the words were corrupted before I had the benefit of any insight into Greek or Hebrew. The simple language of Ephesians 1;9-11 and Colossians 1:16-21 was sufficient to convince me to embark on a journey of discovery that has led me through history and language and culture and philosophy for the purpose of clarifying for anyone who may be on the trail behind me and so, perhaps, reduce the struggle for some of them, who- were not convinced by man, but led by the Holy Spirit themselves, to seek  and follow the golden thread that winds through the seeming paradoxes and contradictions into the wide open space of the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, where God is all in all. ;o)

Because the letter kills while the Spirit gives life, it is in discerning the Spirit of the Word that the mysteries begin to unravel and the rain begins to fall. All the rest is just details. It is the Spirit who teaches the Word, and the Spirit comes from the heart of God to rescue the heart of man from the mind of man. Peace, John
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2010, 07:01:05 PM »
 :cloud9: Sorry for the length; I tried to make it into two columns, but my attempt just messed it up.  :mblush:

The Lord God said that His words would never pass away; He also said that the 3 main feasts were to be celebrated FOREVER. Now either God is lying, or man is. OR; (and this is my stand on it) the scriptures also are "structures" that house the divine INTENT of the Spirit, which we now have, to teach us His will, and purpose behind the literal.

The Torah is as the waters below the firmament, anything that came via the Spirit understanding being revealed, IS the firmament. Jesus walked on the waters below the firmament, ie. He walked on the Word (Torah) that was from the beginning and is the foundation.

I want to make it clear that this topic for me is not about being brought back under the letter, but understanding that not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away till all be fulfilled (in us, by the inworking of the Spirit and the scriptures). What He did, we appropriate. If not, then why do we observe Passover and Pentecost (and Tabernacles, but that's another thread for sure), JEWISH FEASTS, spiritually?

The New Testament quotes from all Old Testament Books except Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. This does not mean they are not inspired.
And Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. Old Testament texts quoted in the New Testament:

Gen 1:27
 Matt 19:4
 
Gen 5:2
 Mark 10:6
 
Gen 2:2
 Heb 4:4
 
Gen 2:7
 1 Cor 15:45
 
Gen 2:24
 Matt 19:5, Mark 10:7-8,1 Cor 6:17, Eph 5:31
 
Gen 5:24
 Heb 11:5
 
Gen 12:1
 Acts 7:3
 
Gen 12:3
 Gal 3:8
 
Gen 12:7
 Acts 7:5
 
Gen 13:15
 Gal 3:16
 
Gen 14:17-20
 Heb 7:1-2
 
Gen 15:5
 Rom 4:18
 
Gen 15:6
 Rom 4:3,9,22, Gal 3:6, Jas 2:23
 
Gen 15:13-14
 Acts 7:6-7
 
Gen 17:5
 Rom 4:17
 
Gen 17:7
 Gal 3:16
 
Gen 17:8
 Acts 7:5
 
Gen 18:10
 Rom 9:9
 
Gen 18:14
 Rom 9:9
 
Gen 21:10
 Gal 4:30
 
Gen 21:22
 Rom 9:7, Heb 11:18
 
Gen 22:16-17
 Heb 6:13-14
 
Gen 22:18
 Acts 3:15
 
Gen 25:23
 Rom 9:12
 
Gen 25:23
 Rom 9:12
 
Gen 38:8
 Luke 20:28
 
Gen 47:31
 Heb 11:21
 
Ex 1:8
 Acts 7:18
 
Ex 2:14
 Acts 7:27-28,38
 
Ex 5:2
 Acts 7:30
 
Ex 3:5-10
 Acts 7:33-34
 
Ex 3:6
 Matt 22:32
 
Ex 3:15
 Mark 12:26, Acts 3:13
 
Ex 4:16
 Rom 9:17
 
Ex 5:18
 Jam 2:11
 
Ex 12:46
 John 19:36
 
Ex 13:2
 Luke 2:23
 
Ex 16:18
 2 Cor 8:15
 
Ex 19:6
 1 Pet 2:9
 
Ex 19:12-13
 Heb 12:20
 
Ex 20:12-16
 Matt 19:18-19
 
Ex 20:13
 Matt 5:21
 
Ex 20:13-17
 Rom 13:2 9
 
Ex 20:12
 Matt 15:4
 
Ex 20:14
 Matt 5:27
 
Ex 20:17
 Rom 7:7
 
Ex 21:17
 Matt 15:4, Mark 7:10
 
Ex 21:24
 Matt 5:38
 
Ex 22:27
 Acts 23:5
 
Ex 24:8
 Heb 9:20
 
Ex 25:40
 Heb 8:5
 
Ex 32:1
 Acts 7:40
 
Ex 32:6
 1 Co 10:17
 
Ex 33:19
 Rom 9:15
 
Lev 10:9
 Luke 1:15
 
Lev 12:8
 Luke 2:24
 
Lev 18:5
 Rom 10:5, Gal 3:12
 
Lev 19:2
 1 Pet 1:16
 
Lev 19:12, 30:2
 Matt 5:33
 
Lev 19:18
 Mark 12:33
 
Lev 19:18
 Matt 5:43,19:19,22:39
 
Lev 19:18
 Mark 12:31, Gal 5:14,Jam 2:
 
Lev 23:29
 Acts 3:23
 
Lev 24:20
 Matt 5:38
 
Lev 26:12
 2 Co 6:16
 
Num 16:
 2 Tim 2:19
 
Num 27:17
 Matt 9:36
 
Deut 5:16-20
 Mark 10:1, Luke 18:20
 
Deut 24:14
 Mark 10:19
 
Deut 5:16
 Mark 7:10, Eph 6:2-3
 
Deut 5:17
 Jas 2:11
 
Deut 4:24
 Heb 12:29
 
Deut 4:3
 Mark 12:32
 
Deut 6:5
 Luke 10:27
 
Deut 6:4-5
 Mark 12:29-30
 
Deut 6:5
 Matt 22:37
 
Deut 6:13
 Matt 4:10, Luke 4:8
 
Deut 6:16
 Matt 4:7, Luke 4:12
 
Deut 8:3
 Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4
 
Deut 9:4
 Rom 10:6
 
Deut 30:12-14
 Rom 10:6-8
 
Deut 9:19
 Heb 12:21
 
Deut 17:7
 1 Co 5:13
 
Deut 18:15-16
 Acts 7:37, 3:12
 
Deut 19:15
 Matt 18:16,2 Co 13:1
 
Deut 21:23
 Gal 3:13
 
Deut 24:1,3
 Matt 5:31, Matt 19:7, Mark 10:4
 
Deut 25:4
 1 Co 9:9,1 Tim 5:18
 
Deut 25:5,7
 Matt 22:24, Mark 12:19
 
Deut 27:26,
 Gal 3:10
 
Deut 29:3
 Rom 11:8
 
Deut 30:12-14
 Heb 13:5
 
Deut 32:21
 Rom 10:19
 
Deut 32:35-36
 Rom 12:19
 
Deut 32:43
 Rom 15:10
 
1 Sam 12:22
 Rom 11:2
 
1 Sam 13:14
 Acts 13:22
 
2 Sam 7:8
 2 Co 6:18
 
2 Sam 7:14
 Heb 1:5
 
2 Sam 22:50
 Rom 15:9
 
1 Ki 19:10,12
 Rom 11:3
 
1 Ki 19:`8
 Rom 11:4
 
2 Ki 1:10,11
 Luke 9:54, Rev 20:9
 
1 Chr 17:13
 Rev 21:7
 
2 Ch 18:16, 30:2
 Mark 6:34
 
Job 5:13
 1 Co 3:19
 
Job 16:19
 Mark 11:10
 
Job 41:3
 Rom 11:35
 
Ps 2:7
 Acts 13:33, Heb 1:5,5:5
 
Ps 2:9
 Rev 2:26-27
 
Ps 4:5
 Eph 4:26
 
Ps 5:10
 Rom 3:13
 
Ps 6:9
 Matt 7:23
 
Ps 8:3
 Matt 21:16
 
Ps 8:5-7
 Heb 2:6-8, 1 Co 15:27
 
Ps 10:7
 Rom 3:14
 
Ps 14:1-3
 Rom 3:10-12
 
Ps 16:8-11
 Acts 2:25-28, 2:31,13:35
 
Ps 19:5
 Rom 10:18
 
Ps 22:2
 Matt 27:46, Mark 15:34
 
Ps 22:19
 John 19:24, Matt 27:35, Mark 15:24, Luke 23:24
 
Ps 22:23
 Heb 2:12
 
Ps 24:1
 1 Co 10:26
 
Ps 31:6
 Luke 23:46
 
Ps 32:1-2
 Rom 4:7-8
 
Ps 34:9
 1 Pet 2:3
 
Ps 34:13-17
 1 Pet 3:10-12
 
Ps 34:21
 Joh 15:25
 
Ps 36:2
 Rom 3:18
 
Ps 40:10
 Heb 10:5-7
 
Ps 41:10
 Joh 13:18
 
Ps 426, 12
 Matt 26:38
 
Ps 43:5
 Mark 14:34
 
Ps 44:23
 Rom 8:36
 
Ps 45:7-8
 Heb 1:8-9
 
Ps 51:6
 Rom 3:4
 
Ps 62:13
 Matt 16:27
 
Pro, 24:12
 Rom 2:6
 
Ps 68:19
 Eph 4:8
 
Ps 69:10
 Joh 2:17
 
Ps 69:23-24
 Rom 11:9-10
 
Ps 69:26
 Acts 1:20
 
Ps 78:2
 Matt 13:35
 
Ps 78:24
 Joh 6:31
 
Ps 82:6
 Joh 10:34
 
Ps 86:9
 Rev 15:4
 
Ps 91:11-12
 Matt 4:6, Luke 4:10-11
 
Ps 94:11
 1 Co 3:20
 
Ps 95:7-11
 Heb 3:7-11, 3:15,4:3,5,7
 
Ps 102:26-28
 Heb 1:10-12
 
Ps 104:4
 Heb 1:7
 
Ps 104:12
 Matt 13:32, Mark 4:32, Luke 13:19
 
Ps 110:1
 Matt 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42-43, Acts 2:34-35, Heb 1:13
 
Ps 110:4
 Heb 5:6,-10, Heb 7:17,21
 
Ps 111:2
 Rev 15:3-4
 
Ps 112:9
 2 Co 9:9
 
Ps 116:10
 2 Co 4:13
 
Ps 117:2
 Rom 15:11
 
Ps 118:6
 Heb 13:6
 
Ps 118:22-23
 Matt 21:42, Mark 12:10-11, Luke 20:17
 
Ps 118:22
 Acts 4:11, 1 Pet 2:7
 
Ps 118:25-26
 Matt 21:9,Mark 11:9-10, Joh 12:13, Matt 23:39
 
Ps 118:26
 Luke 13:35, Luke 19:38
 
Ps 132:11
 Acts 2:30
 
Pro 3:11-12
 Heb 12:5-6
 
Pro 3:34
 Jam 4:6, 1 Pet 5:5
 
Pro 11:31
 1 Pet 4:18
 
Pro 25:21-22
 Rom 12:20
 
Pro 26:11
 2 Pet 2:22
 
Isa 1:9
 Rom 9:29
 
Isa 6:9-10
 Matt 13:14-15, Mark 4:12, Acts 28:26-27
 
Isa 6:9
 Luke 8:10
 
Isa 6:10
 Joh 12:40
 
Isa 7:14
 Matt, 1:23
 
Isa 8:12-13
 1 Pet 3:14-15
 
Isa 8:17-18
 Heb 2:13
 
Isa 8:23-9:1
 Matt 4:15-16
 
Isa 11:10
 Rom 15:12
 
Isa 13:10
 Matt 24:29, Mark 13:24-25
 
Isa 34:4
 Luke 21:26
 
Isa 22:13
 1 Co 15:32
 
Isa 25:8
 1 Co 15:54, Rev 7:17
 
Isa 26:19
 Matt 11:5
 
Isa 35:5-6
 Luke 7:22
 
Isa 26:20
 Heb 10:37-38
 
Isa 28:11-12
 1 Co 14:21
 
Isa 29:13
 Matt 15:8-9, Mark 1:3, Joh 1:23
 
Isa 40:6-8
 1 Pet 1:24-25
 
Isa 40:13
 Rom 11:34, 1 Co 2:16
 
Isa 42:1-4
 Matt 12:18-21
 
Isa 45:23
 Rom 14:11
 
Isa 49:6
 Acts 13:47
 
Isa 49:8
 2 Co 6:2
 
Isa 52:5
 Rom 2:24
 
Isa 52:7
 Rom 10:15
 
Isa 52:11
 2 Co 6:17
 
Isa 52:15
 Rom 15:21
 
Isa 53:1
 Joh 12:38, Rom 8:17
 
Isa 53:7-8
 Acts 8:32-33
 
Isa 53:9
 1 Pet 2:23
 
Isa 53:12
 Luke 22:37
 
Isa 54:1
 Gal 4:27
 
Isa 54:13
 Joh 6:45
 
Isa 55:3
 Acts 13:34
 
Isa 55:10
 2 Co 9:10
 
Isa 56:7
 Matt 21:13
 
Jer 7:11
 Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46
 
Isa 59:7-8
 Rom 3:15-17
 
Isa 59:20-21
 Rom 11:26-27
 
Isa 61:1-2
 Luke 4:18-19
 
Isa 62:11
 Matt 21:5
 
Isa 64:3
 1 Co 2:9
 
Isa 65:1-2
 Rom10:10-21
 
Isa 65:17
 2 Pet 3:13
 
Isa 66:1-2
 Acts 7:49-50
 
Jer 5:21
 Mark 8:18
 
Jer 9:23
 1 Co 1:31, 2 Co 10:17
 
Jer31:15
 Matt 2:18
 
Jer 31:31-34
 Heb 8:8-12
 
Ezk 11:20
 Rev 21:7
 
Ezk 37:5, 10
 Rev 11:11
 
Dan 3:6
 Matt13:42, 50
 
Dan 7:13
 Matt 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26,14:62, Luke 21:27,22:69
 
Dan 9:27
 Matt 24:15
 
Dan 11:31
 Mark 13:14
 
Hos 2:1, 3
 Rom 9:25-28
 
Hos 6:6
 Matt 9:13, Matt 12:7
 
Hos 10:8
 Luke 23:30, Rev 6:16
 
Hos 11:1
 Matt 2:15
 
Hos 13:14
 1 Co 15:55
 
Joel 3:1-5
 Acts 2:17-21, Rom 10:13
 
Amos 5:25-27
 Acts 7:42-43
 
Amos 9:11-12
 Acts 15:16-17
 
Jonah 2:1
 Matt 12:40
 
Mic 5:1
 Matt 2:6
 
Mic 7:6
 Matt 10:35-36
 
Hab2:3-4
 Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11
 
Hab 1:5
 Acts 13:41
 
Hag 2:6, 21
 Heb 12:26
 
Zac 8:16
 Eph 4:25
 
Zech 9:9
 Joh 12:15
 
Zac 11:12-13
 Matt 27:9-10
 
Zac 12:10
 Joh 19:37
 
Zac 13:7
 Matt 26:31, Mark 14:27
 
Mal 1:2-3
 Rom 9:13
 
Mal 3:1
 Matt 11:10, Mark 1:2,Luke 7:27
 
Mal 3:23-24
 Matt 17:10-11
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 07:25:02 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2010, 07:10:19 PM »
Also, concerning language, the Holy Spirit taught me from the corrupted words of the KJV that the words were corrupted before I had the benefit of any insight into Greek or Hebrew.
I'm sure the HS could also have thaught you when reading the satanic bible or quran.
For me being a student doesn't just mean read an article. It also means finding the best article. In Bible studies that would mean the best possible translation and/or commentary. Personally I'm convinced reading a bit on the culture of people is important too.
Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2010, 07:18:00 PM »
Also, concerning language, the Holy Spirit taught me from the corrupted words of the KJV that the words were corrupted before I had the benefit of any insight into Greek or Hebrew. The simple language of Ephesians 1;9-11 and Colossians 1:16-21 was sufficient to convince me to embark on a journey of discovery that has led me through history and language and culture and philosophy for the purpose of clarifying for anyone who may be on the trail behind me and so, perhaps, reduce the struggle for some of them, who- were not convinced by man, but led by the Holy Spirit themselves, to seek  and follow the golden thread that winds through the seeming paradoxes and contradictions into the wide open space of the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, where God is all in all. ;o)

Because the letter kills while the Spirit gives life, it is in discerning the Spirit of the Word that the mysteries begin to unravel and the rain begins to fall. All the rest is just details. It is the Spirit who teaches the Word, and the Spirit comes from the heart of God to rescue the heart of man from the mind of man. Peace, John

 :cloud9: I say AMEN.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2010, 07:22:45 PM »
:cloud9: The Lord God said that His words would never pass away; He also said that the 3 main feasts were to be celebrated FOREVER.
Are we talking about the ET forever or the UR age?
Quote
Now either God is lying, or man is.
Or man mistunderstands. Still wrong but a bit milder.
Quote
OR; (and this is my stand on it) the scriptures also are "structures" that house the divine INTENT of the Spirit, which we now have, to teach us His will, and purpose behind the literal.
If OT is the foundation of the house then without proper knowledge of the OT the NT doctrines are build upon sand instead of rock.
 :dontknow:
Quote
The New Testament quotes from all Old Testament Books except Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. This does not mean they are not inspired.
And Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. Old Testament texts quoted in the New Testament:
Maybe it's more than just 24 because it's possible several books need to be merged into one.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 6131
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2010, 07:34:57 PM »
All the new finds that men produce everyday show that man is still in the search to find what man will call wisdom (his wisdom), I will stand that with, that without the Holy Spirit interpreting what ever transalation, you find just what man intends to find...that man is the answer.
1Co 1:22  Since also Jews ask a sign, and Greeks seek wisdom,
1Co 1:23  also we--we preach Christ crucified, to Jews, indeed, a stumbling-block, and to Greeks foolishness,
1Co 1:24  and to those called--both Jews and Greeks--Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God,
1Co 1:25  because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men;
1Co 1:26  for see your calling, brethren, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
1Co 1:27  but the foolish things of the world did God choose, that the wise He may put to shame; and the weak things of the world did God choose that He may put to shame the strong;
1Co 1:28  and the base things of the world, and the things despised did God choose, and the things that are not, that the things that are He may make useless--
1Co 1:29  that no flesh may glory before Him;
1Co 1:30  and of Him ye--ye are in Christ Jesus, who became to us from God wisdom, righteousness also, and sanctification, and redemption,
1Co 1:31  that, according as it hath been written, `He who is glorying--in the Lord let him glory.'
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8437
  • Gender: Female
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2010, 07:37:23 PM »
:cloud9: The Lord God said that His words would never pass away; He also said that the 3 main feasts were to be celebrated FOREVER.
Are we talking about the ET forever or the UR age?

My point is; basic salvation is as Passover, Pentecost is begun in the believer with the baptism of the HG. These became spiritually "observed" or implemented during the time of the Lord and the disciples.

Quote
Now either God is lying, or man is.
Or man mistunderstands. Still wrong but a bit milder.

True, but I was referencing a scripture, not making a personal accusation against anyone.

Quote
OR; (and this is my stand on it) the scriptures also are "structures" that house the divine INTENT of the Spirit, which we now have, to teach us His will, and purpose behind the literal.
If OT is the foundation of the house then without proper knowledge of the OT the NT doctrines are build upon sand instead of rock.
 :dontknow:

Quote
The New Testament quotes from all Old Testament Books except Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. This does not mean they are not inspired.
And Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books. Old Testament texts quoted in the New Testament:

Maybe it's more than just 24 because it's possible several books need to be merged into one.

 :dontknow:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2010, 08:04:04 PM »
All the new finds that men produce everyday show that man is still in the search to find what man will call wisdom (his wisdom), I will stand that with, that without the Holy Spirit interpreting what ever transalation, you find just what man intends to find...that man is the answer.
Don't get me wrong Micah....Why do you even bother to come to this forum? All mortal men and women here. All people find whatever they want to find.
Isn't it better to hide in a empty dark room and wait for inspiration?


Study theyself approved doesn't mean do nothing and wait until the HS decides to inspire you.
Why did the HS even bother to inspired the writings if they are just a useless "you find what you want to find".

I truely don't understand your view.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4685
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2010, 09:16:35 PM »
Also, concerning language, the Holy Spirit taught me from the corrupted words of the KJV that the words were corrupted before I had the benefit of any insight into Greek or Hebrew.
I'm sure the HS could also have thaught you when reading the satanic bible or quran.
For me being a student doesn't just mean read an article. It also means finding the best article. In Bible studies that would mean the best possible translation and/or commentary. Personally I'm convinced reading a bit on the culture of people is important too.
Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Holy Spirit does not speak to anyone through the Quran or the satanic bible.

Without the Holy Spirit, scholarship is a ship stranded in the desert sand, it will take us nowhere. As an adjunct to the Holy Spirit's enlightenment on the Word, scholarship is absolutely excellent and of immense value.

Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".

That statement is just kind of strange and I am not sure what you are saying..... but I am pretty sure you didn't understand what I was saying.

 What I was saying is simply this- the Holy Spirit led me into my scholarly studies into the languages and cultures and history of antiquity, but had already revealed the truth of UR to me even as I read deficient translations. I certainly applaud any efforts to bring forth better translation, and spend a lot of time translating myself, Peace, John

"Let the one who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches"
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2010, 09:55:10 PM »
Also, concerning language, the Holy Spirit taught me from the corrupted words of the KJV that the words were corrupted before I had the benefit of any insight into Greek or Hebrew.
I'm sure the HS could also have thaught you when reading the satanic bible or quran.
For me being a student doesn't just mean read an article. It also means finding the best article. In Bible studies that would mean the best possible translation and/or commentary. Personally I'm convinced reading a bit on the culture of people is important too.
Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Holy Spirit does not speak to anyone through the Quran or the satanic bible.
Why not? Didn't you write pagan religions have overlap with Christianity.
I think your answer is that those books are to far away from the real inspired Books. If that is your answer my question would be; if some books are to wrong to be useful shouldn't be do our very best to find the writing that have smallest margins of error.
In Dutch we have a saying: "A good start is half the job". Doesn't that mean a quality translation gives a good headstart?

Quote
Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".
That statement is just kind of strange and I am not sure what you are saying..... but I am pretty sure you didn't understand what I was saying.
I did. Or I still don't after your explanation below.
Quote
What I was saying is simply this- the Holy Spirit led me into my scholarly studies into the languages and cultures and history of antiquity, but had already revealed the truth of UR to me even as I read deficient translations.
I'm not denying you or anyone else on this forum had all kind of revelations by using all kind of translations. That's not my point. I even took it to the extreme that becaus ewith God everything is possible He can even use the quran as a tool if He wishes so.
My comment wasn't directed only "against" you (or Micah). It seems to be a general agreement on this forum. At least that's how I read feel it. A layed back approach (correct expression?) A bit I'm to lazy to search. Or I don't bother. I just continue with whatever I have and if the HS want to tell me something He gotta use my translation. I find that very odd. I'm a bit out of sync on with spiritual affairs so the books afair doesn't add much to the insult I guess  :winkgrin:

Quote
"Let the one who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches"
Seems there is only one set of ears and a 1000 denominiations weren't allowed to use them for 2000 years  :mblush:

PS to clarify my weird statement.
If UR people say: Jesus saves all the ETs answer in that case just lets sin because Jesus takes care of everything.
Similar: I don't bother about finding a good translation because the HS takes care of everything.
Quote
Peace, John
:Peace: :Peace2:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 6131
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2010, 11:25:32 PM »
All the new finds that men produce everyday show that man is still in the search to find what man will call wisdom (his wisdom), I will stand that with, that without the Holy Spirit interpreting what ever transalation, you find just what man intends to find...that man is the answer.
Don't get me wrong Micah....Why do you even bother to come to this forum? All mortal men and women here. All people find whatever they want to find.
Isn't it better to hide in a empty dark room and wait for inspiration?


Study theyself approved doesn't mean do nothing and wait until the HS decides to inspire you.
Why did the HS even bother to inspired the writings if they are just a useless "you find what you want to find".

I truely don't understand your view.

I bother to come on this forum in hope to recieve and give, share.  Would you prefer that I dont? Who said anything about mortals? Did you mean "Is it better to hide in a empty dark room and wait for inspiration?" If you did, should the Lord have me in a empty dark room to wait for inspiration, then thats where I would want to be, and the inspiration would come, would it not? I to study, but one thing I believe the Lord has tryed to instill in me is not to let my mind jump at every new thing men decuce to put in my veiw, not that there are not new things that He has a desire for me to see, but just since the internet the mind of man is running amuck in every direction to find out more. I myself believe in a new thing that He is doing it now today.
Isa 43:19  Lo, I am doing a new thing, now it springeth up, Do ye not know it? Yea, I put in a wilderness a way, In a desolate place--floods.
2Ti 2:15  Give diligence, thyself, approved, to present unto God,a workman not to be put to shame, skillfully handling the word of truth.

You said, " Why did the HS even bother to inspired the writings if they are just a useless "you find what you want to find".
I dont believe you really mean that.




Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11315
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2010, 11:32:22 PM »
Quote from: ww
Personally I think (ab)using the quote "HS will reveal" is just as wrong as "all are saved let's sin".

It's not just a matter of reveal.  It's also he will guide you into all truth.

A guide, then, but each one of us is in a different landscape, so we need a guide with local knowledge, so to speak.  The things that knock my socks off might mean little or nothing to you. 

Everything you say is correct, of course, regarding translations.  But don't forget we are on different time schedules, and walking in works prepared for us from the beginning.  You need different clothes and different knowledge for hiking in the desert versus skiing in the mountains.

That's the beauty of our God--He is so personal.

For a long time now, whenever I ask a question, I get an answer multiple times within days.  For you, it is something different.  That's the way He works.  :bigGrin:

And, you are a gift to all of us, ww.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9123
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2010, 12:35:41 AM »
Posted by Cardinal in another thread about a year ago;

"This is long but so worth the read; written by a Pastor friend of mine on FB. Blowing of the trumpet, and another witness hears the sound; thank You Lord. Blessings.....


TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE TEACHES VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS AND THE OTHER TEACHES INVISIBLE HEAVENLY THINGS.
   
 
TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE BIBLE IS MOSES AND THE OTHER BIBLE IS CHRIST. 2 Corinth 3: 5-6, 13-15. This is the revelation of the divine plan of God to save souls! TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE IS HANDWRITTEN IN LETTER FROM COVER TO COVER TEACHING AND PRESENTING VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS THAT WERE OR ARE SEEN BY HUMAN NATURAL EYE/SIGHT WHICH ARE SHADOWS OF THE INVISIBLE HEAVENLY THINGS AND THE OTHER TEACHES AND PRESENTS INVISIBLE HEAVENLY THINGS BY REVELATION IN THE MIND OR ONE'S UNDERSTANDING TO ABOLISH VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS IN THAT SOUL. REV 5, 1 JOHN 2:7-8, 2 Corinth 3: 5-6, HEB 10:1-9, ROM 12: 1-2.

TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE BIBLE FROM COVER TO COVER, HANDWRITTEN IN BLACK AND WHITE IN LETTER, IS THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE THAT TEACHES VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS IN CARNAL HUMAN WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE TO THIS DAY OF 2009. 2 Corinth 3:5-6, 13-15.

THE OTHER BIBLE IN THE VERY HANDWRITTEN BIBLE IS THE PROMISED NEW COVENANT BIBLE, ALSO FROM COVER TO COVER BUT IS READ BY THE ENABLING OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN A CHOSEN SOUL INDWELT BY GOD AND IS BORN OF THE WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.

THE NEW COVENANT BIBLE READ BY THE INSPIRATION OF GOD TEACHES HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS WHICH ARE CONTRARY TO HISTORICAL EARTHLY VISIBLE THINGS PRESENTED BY THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE.

THE HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS ABOLISH OR REPLACE EARTHLY VISIBLE THINGS IN A SOUL THAT IS TRANSFORMED TO READ THE NEW COVENANT BIBLE BY THE POWER OF GOD.

THIS TRANSFORMATION OF THE BIBLE FROM AN OLD BIBLE OF CARNAL ORDINANCES OF DARKNESS INTO A NEW ONE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ORDINANCES OF LIGHT IS DONE IN A SOUL BUT THIS CHANGE/ TRANSFIGURATION IN THE BIBLE DOES NOT ERASE THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE ORDINANCES FROM THE BIBLE. 2 Corinth 3: 5-6, REV 5, Isaiah 45: 7-8, Pro 16: 4-6, 1 John 2: 7-8, James 1:18-21, 2 Corinth 4. Eph Chapters 1 to 4: 20, Col. 2, Heb 7:12-18.

GOD IS NOW REPLACING THE OLD BIBLE VISIBLE HISTORIC EARTHLY THINGS (COPIES OF HEAVENLY THINGS) WITH THE REAL PRESENT INVISIBLE BIBLE REVEALED HEAVENLY THINGS OF THE NEW COVENANT BIBLE IN SOULS BUT NOT REPLACED OR ERRASED FROM THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE. Col 2: 10-23, Col 3:1-16, Heb 10:1-9.

INVISIBLE transformation of souls call it rapture of souls or call it resurrection of souls is now going on from the earthly kingdom taught by carnal men using the OLD COVENANT Bible to the heavenly kingdom taught by the Holy Spirit INSPIRED WORD, the NEW COVENANT Bible.

Are you seeing (understanding) the transformation? It is happening on this wise: Two Bibles in One Bible: One is the Original and old Covenant Bible from Genesis to the book of Revelation to this day of 2009. THE OLD Bible presents and teaches earthly visible things that are copies and shadows of heavenly invisible things that are taught by the promised NEW ENGRAFTED COVENANT BIBLE.

The New Bible is the En-grafted New Covenant Bible that saves souls or gives eternal life to souls which is grafted in the Old Original Covenant Bible. The New en-grafted Bible presents and teaches invisible heavenly things that abolish, replace Earthly visible things presented by the old Bible in a every soul favored and indwelt by God but the Old Bible is not abolished from the Bible.

The earthly one kills souls and keeps souls in bondage of not fellowshiping with God. James 1: 18-21, 2 Corinth 3: 5-6, 7-15.Rom 12: 1-2. Two Bibles in One Bible: The Original/Old COVENANT/TESTAMENT BIBLE seals the promised New ENGRAFTED COVENANT/TESTAMENT Bible from the beginning BY USING EARTHLY VISIBLE VEILING THINGS WHICH ARE COPIES OF THE HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS IN PATTERN. Heb 8.

The New En-grafted Bible is appointed to be revealed in the LAST DAYS WHEN GOD abolishes the Original Bible by revealing the promised NEW COVENANT BIBLE that teaches invisible heavenly things in the soul that is enabled to UNDERSTAND the New en-grafted Bible.1 John 2:7-8, Heb 1:1-2, James 1:18-21, Ps 25:14

GOD ABOLISHES THE OLD BIBLE THAT TEACHES VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS ONLY IN THE SOUL THAT IS ENABLED TO RECEIVE NEW COVENANT BIBLE WHICH REVEALS AND TEACHES THE HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS IN PATTERN THAT MOSES, THE HANDWRITTEN BIBLE WAS SHOWN BY GOD ON THE "MOUNTAIN".

GOD DOES NOT ABOLISH OR REMOVE THE OLD/ORIGINAL BIBLE THAT PRESENTS SHADOWS OF HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS FROM THE BIBLE BUT FROM ONLY THE SOULS GIVEN THE POWER (WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD) TO SEE (UNDERSTAND) THE INVISIBLE THINGS REVEALED AND TAUGHT BY ONLY GOD AND HIS INSPIRED SONS THROUGH THE NEW BIBLE TO INSPIRED SOULS.

THESE TWO BIBLES; ONE THAT TEACHES EARTHLY VISIBLE THINGS AND THE OTHER THAT TEACHES INVISIBLE THINGS OF HEAVEN ARE THE TWO WITNESSES OF GOD THROUGH WHICH GOD RULES THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH. James 1: 18-21, by KJV BIBLE. REV 5, 1 John 2:7-8, Isaiah 45: 7-8.

TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE IS TAUGHT BY GOD IN GOD'S OWN WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE AND IS WRITTEN IN SOFT HEARTS OF FLESH AND ONE IS GIVEN TO MEN TO TEACH IN CARNAL MEN'S KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM who have hearts of stone (HARD) that do not obey GOD.

Inside these stony hearts are written the OLD COVENANT Bible scriptures, handwritten in LETTER and understood with an understanding of the hearts of stone/natural (OF NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT). 1 JOHN 2: 7-8, Isaiah 45:7-8, Heb 7: 12-18. EZ. 18:18-32; 2 Cor 3: 1-6. Therefore check yourself in which type of your heart are the Bible scriptures written.

TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: THE HANDWRITTEN IN BLACK AND WHITE WHEN MINISTERED IN HUMAN CARNAL KNOWLEDGE ARE ORDINANCES OF DARKNESS AND THE NEW EN-GRAFTED COVENANT BIBLE TAUGHT AND REVEALED BY GOD ARE ORDINANCES OF LIGHT. 1 John 2: 7-8, Col 2 : 10-23. ISAIAH 29: 11-23, Col 2, Ps 25:14.

TWO BIBLES IN ONE: THE NEW ONE BY GOD TEACHES HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS AND OLD ONE IS GIVEN TO MEN BY GOD TO TEACH VISIBLE EARTHLY THINGS WHICH ARE COPIES AND SHADOWS OF HEAVENLY INVISIBLE THINGS. 1 John 5: 7-8, Heb 10: 1-9. KJV Bible

Two Bibles in one Bible: One is read, interpreted, explained and taught in human carnal knowledge and wisdom without the help or inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The other Bible is the One written within which is read, interpreted, explained and taught by the help or inspiration or ability of the freely given wisdom and knowledge of God when a soul is INDWELT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT (GOD).

Examples: A) MOSES: 2 Corinth 3: 13-15 Earthly historical visible Moses, a man who lead the children of Israel physically from Egypt in the Middle East to Canaan is the physical example of deliverance of God who is substituted by the invisible heavenly Moses who is the entire HANDWRITTEN BIBLE who is READ to thus day 2009. 2 Corinth 3: 13-15.

The heavenly invisible Moses is revealed by the wisdom of God to be the Old Covenant/ TESTAMENT Bible handwritten in the letter (FROM THE BOOK OF GENESIS TO END OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION) that presents the earthly visible things from the Book of Genesis to the end of the Book of Revelation read up to this day 2009 but read carnally by the Israel (ALL CARNAL BIBLE FOLLOWERS WHO ARE CHILDREN OF FLESH) of all global nations. Rom 2:28-29, 2 Corinth 3:13-15. John 6:28-34

The invisible Moses, the OLD COVENANT BIBLE HIGH PRIEST is a type of Christ who is the NEW COVENANT BIBLE HIGH PRIEST is revealed to deliver the children of GOD called Israel from spiritual slavery of worshiping different carnal god(s).

The Children of God are enslaved by the carnal "Egyptian" preachers of the Bible up this day 2009 onwards who are figuratively the "Egyptians" or the children of flesh of Agar (OF THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE Gal 4:21-24, 2 Corinth 3:5-6).

Agar is the Old Covenant Bible, a "woman" who bears children of FLESH for Abraham/God who read, understand and interpret the BIBLE in human natural Knowledge and wisdom without the HELP or ENABLING or INSPIRATION OF THE POWER (wisdom and knowledge) of the Holy Spirit.

Slaves are born as slaves as a result of the teaching, interpreting, testifying carnally of the handwritten Bible. The witnessing of the Old Covenant Bible handwritten in black and white cover to cover called the LETTER, the ordinances of darkness of DEATH and BONDAGE in human wisdom and knowledge presents the visible prince of this world and his carnal ministers as kings of this world. 2 Corinth 4, 2 Corinth 3: 5-6, 1 John 2: 7-8, Isaiah 45: 7-8, Coloss 2: 10-23, Coloss 3.

But the New Covenant Bible is presented by the revelation of the Invisible New King from heaven who is read to overthrow the physical earthly visible one who is a copy of the invisible heavenly one in souls. Col. 3.

The assignment of the INVISIBLE Old High Priest called Moses, the handwritten Bible in letter, who is READ and His special ministers appointed by God, is to fight progressively the carnal blind ministers of the Bible until Moses (handwritten Old Covenant Bible) hands over the true followers to the new High Priest, Joshua (Christ the NEW COVENANT Bible); who is also READ to lead them into the promised land of Canaan, which is figuratively the promised new Covenant Bible Land.

This is the place of promise (Canaan) to this day 2009 where the chosen followers of the Bible are set free from the carnal worship of the carnal Egyptian gods. The chosen followers that have been shown (revealed) the New Covenant Bible land are instructed to takeover the land by waging battle under the command of Joshua, the New Covenant Bible High Priest and overthrow the carnal occupants that have build up a host of carnal ministers.

But Joshua under the leadership of God (Holy Spirit) is commanded to establish the the Kingdom of God where her subjects worship ONLY ONE true God by revelation knowledge and wisdom of the Spirit of God. These are the sons of God born of the Spirit of God that the whole world is waiting for, for the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the hearts of men through interpreting the Bible Word by the ability of the Holy Spirit to become the New Covenant Bible that saves souls. Rom 8. James 1: 18-21.

The revelation knowledge and wisdom of God given to a soul by the indwelling GOD teaches the Bible in a new way that abolishes or replaces visible earthly things that are presented by the Old handwritten Bible with invisible things of Heaven in pattern. 2 Corinth 3: 13-15, 17-18. B) JESUS CHRIST. 2 Corinth 3: 13-15.

Earthly Historical visible veiling Jesus Christ who preached 2000 years ago in the Middle East is replaced with the heavenly invisible Christ Jesus, the High Priest who is READ from Genesis to the end of the Book of Revelation and is revealed to be the New High Priest called the New Covenant Bible, THE WORD OF GOD, the BIBLE, THAT WAGES WAR AGAINST HIS CARNAL ENEMIES. Heb 10: 1-9, 2 Corinth 4: 1-18, 2 Corinth 3: 13-15, Gal 4: 1-14, 1 John 2:7-8, Isaiah 45: 7-8, 1 John 5: 7-8. 2 Corinth 5:16, Heb 1: 1-2. By KJV Bible.

C) BLOOD SACRIFICES: 1 John 5: 7-8. Use KJV Bible to compare heavenly invisible things in verse 7 with earthly visible things in verse 8. Earthly Historical Visible and physical Blood sacrifice of 2000 years ago presented by the handwritten Bible that teaches earthly visible SHADOWS is abolished or replaced or substituted by the invisible heavenly "BLOOD" sacrifice which is the Holy Spirit that SPEAKS BETTER THINGS THAN THAT OF ABEL which cleanses us our CONSCIENCES from all sin of transgressing the Law of God and worship of idol gods presented by teaching the Old handwritten Covenant Bible carnally in human carnal wisdom and knowledge that kills souls. Heb 12:22-29.

EARTHLY VISIBLE BLOOD SACRIFICE THAT WAS SHED 2000 YEARS AGO FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS A COPY OF THE HEAVENLY ONE IS REPLACED BY THE INVISIBLE HEAVENLY SACRIFICE OF THE HEAVENLY "BLOOD" WHICH IS ETERNAL HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD THAT CLEANSES OUR CONSCIENCES FROM THE SIN OF CARNALLY TRANSGRESSING THE BIBLE LAW WHICH RESULTS IN WORSHIPING OF IDOLS OR SHADOWS OF THE OLD COVENANT BIBLE. HEB 9: 11-23, 1 John 5: 7-8, 1 Corinth 10. Heb 10: 1-9. By KJV Bible.

TWO BIBLES IN ONE BIBLE: ONE IS CALLED MOSES THE OLD HIGH PRIEST FROM THE BEGINNING TO THIS DAY OF 2009 ONWARDS AND THE OTHER BIBLE IS CHRIST THE NEW HIGH PRIEST SEALED FROM THE BEGINNING BUT IS REVEALED IN THE LAST DAYS AND CONTINUES TO BE HIGH PRIEST ONWARDS AND FOREVER. 2 CORINTH 3: 13-15, 1 John 2: 7-8, Heb 1: 1-2"
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 12:46:14 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13155
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2010, 12:36:48 AM »
All the new finds that men produce everyday show that man is still in the search to find what man will call wisdom (his wisdom), I will stand that with, that without the Holy Spirit interpreting what ever transalation, you find just what man intends to find...that man is the answer.
Don't get me wrong Micah....Why do you even bother to come to this forum? All mortal men and women here. All people find whatever they want to find.
Isn't it better to hide in a empty dark room and wait for inspiration?


Study theyself approved doesn't mean do nothing and wait until the HS decides to inspire you.
Why did the HS even bother to inspired the writings if they are just a useless "you find what you want to find".

I truely don't understand your view.

Quote
I bother to come on this forum in hope to recieve and give, share.  Would you prefer that I dont?
I just answered your PM.
But because you ask alsmost the same thing here: It wouldn't bother me the slightest bit if I found 100 new posts of you when I log back in tomorrow.

Quote
Who said anything about mortals? Did you mean "Is it better to hide in a empty dark room and wait for inspiration?" If you did, should the Lord have me in a empty dark room to wait for inspiration, then thats where I would want to be, and the inspiration would come, would it not? I to study, but one thing I believe the Lord has tryed to instill in me is not to let my mind jump at every new thing men decuce to put in my veiw, not that there are not new things that He has a desire for me to see, but just since the internet the mind of man is running amuck in every direction to find out more. I myself believe in a new thing that He is doing it now today.
Isa 43:19  Lo, I am doing a new thing, now it springeth up, Do ye not know it? Yea, I put in a wilderness a way, In a desolate place--floods.
2Ti 2:15  Give diligence, thyself, approved, to present unto God,a workman not to be put to shame, skillfully handling the word of truth.
I only half understand what you are saying.... but I think it's answered by my answer to the next quote


Quote
You said, " Why did the HS even bother to inspired the writings if they are just a useless "you find what you want to find".
I dont believe you really mean that.
I do mean that. But I think you misunderstand what I mean by it.
IF it doesn't matter how sloppy the translation of a Bible is because the HS can teach you from that tranlation anyway then why did the HS even bother to inspire the Scriptures? The writers could just have written down what they remembered and call that the NT.
But that's not how it happened. The HS invested lots of time to guide the hand of the writes of the NT. To me that means the HS for some reason saw a need of accurate recording of Jesus teachings/life.
To me that automatically means it's important to find something as close as possible to the originals. But even that is not 100% ok because to understand words we have to understand culture.
I even notice that on this forum. Our societies are slightly diffrent. one on one translations sometimes are much different than intended. We are both living in western societies in the same time. How much more dificult is it to understand a 2000 year old society with an eastern mindset.

Everybody his/her own ways  guess  :icon_flower:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9123
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2010, 12:55:07 AM »
Then the question is: What exactly is the Mosaic law?
a] Manmade laws + laws directly from God
b] Manmade laws only.

I've read Jesus was a Pharisee and only had problems with the stuff they added. Not with the original/true laws.
That aligns quite well with Mat 5:17 where Jesus states He came to teach/(re)explain the law.

IMO, Jesus was talking primarily to the Jewish leaders at the end of that age;  prior to the stake (cross), prior to the end of temple worship, prior to the age of grace being ushered in and Paul bringing the evangel to us - the Gentiles/pagans.

Then Paul taught the Law was passing away, that we're saved by grace not ANY works, or else we'd have something to boast about - rather than just totally depending on the Messiah - and if we attempted to justify ourselves by works, then we had "fallen from grace".

The 2 Bibles post talks about the types and shadows of the OT and old covenant, which ALL pointed to Christ - the better way, the fulfillment.   :2c:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2010, 01:14:44 AM »
Seems strange that God would write in a Greek language, when the entire old testament is written in Hebrew, in fact the more I think about it the more absurd it becomes that the new tesament is supposedly written in Greek. Jesus was born of Jewish descent and he fullfilled the law, why would he decide to write the language in Greek. The new testament was primarily not for gentiles and not for Greeks, British or Americans, it was written for the Jews first, as Paul preached to them first.

I think the idea that the new testament is written in Greek, is mystery babylon deceiving the nations with her sorcery and fornications, corrupting the word of God.
 :2c:


Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9123
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2010, 01:18:03 AM »
That very well could be tank, I'm certainly interested in more evidence.  However, I'm also wanting an unbiased, accurate translation;  which again, it appears it could be hard to find.   :sigh:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11315
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2010, 01:20:28 AM »
But we are still in an age when most people are blinded--'this evil age'--and God apparently wants it that way.

I haven't had time to read this thread yet but I realized a long time ago that the nt scriptures were probably written in Hebrew.  It was in response to a question I had about why Jesus called himself 'Son of man.'  I finally realized he was calling himself 'Son of Adam,' as opposed to what the others called him, 'Son of David.'  But you don't see that in the Greek--you just see the word, anthropos--'man.'

There is a Bible floating around that does all the translations from the Hebrew.  And they use the name of Y'shua for Jesus because that is his Hebrew name.

Yet, this is our time--the time of the Gentiles--and Greek is our language.  So I don't really object to the Greek.  It's much more like English than Hebrew is.

It could be that now we are at the end of the age and the final harvesting, so knowledge is increasing and all these things are being made clearer [by ww's links, for instance].


Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9123
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2010, 01:23:30 AM »
Interesting Molly.  While you were posting, I was off finding this from angelfire;   :dontknow:

However, now there is evidence that Fundamentalists, like many Evangelicals and Charismatics, are coming under the baleful influence of the Hebrew Roots Movement. With this new development, there lurks the prospect that the Bible version debate may be resolved via compromise.  The Judaising movement, which has infiltrated culture and religion across the board, promotes an Aramaic/Hebrew New Testament over the Greek.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is based upon the false premise that the original Gospels were written in Hebrew, or possibly Aramaic, and that the Greek New Testament is a mere translation of Hebrew or Aramaic originals. The Jerusalem School of Synoptic Research, which has influenced the Messianic ministries on a broad scale, is a major source of this error. The theory of Hebrew originals of the Gospel accounts was propounded in a book published by the JSSR titled The Difficult Words of Jesus. Authors David Bivin and Roy Blizzard first cast doubt upon the original inspiration of the Greek gospels:
"Why are the words of Jesus that we find in the Synoptic Gospels so difficult to understand? The answer is that the original gospel that formed the basis for the Synoptic Gospels was first communicated, not in Greek, but in the Hebrew language. In spite of this, today's modern translations are all based upon a Greek text, derived from a still earlier Greek text, which is itself a translation of an original Hebrew Life of Jesus. This means that we are reading an English translation of a text which is in itself a translation. Since the Synoptic Gospels are derived from an original Hebrew text, we are constantly bumping into Hebrew expressions or idioms which are often meaningless in Greek, or in translations from the Greek. 1."Our reasons for writing this book are not only to show that the original gospel was communicated in the Hebrew language; but to show that the entire New Testament can only be understood from a Hebrew perspective."

The JSSR is a non-Christian, Jesus-Seminar type of institution which has connections with and sponsors seminars for various Messianic and Hebrew Roots ministries such as Moriel Ministries and Messengers of Messiah.

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/watch-unto-prayer/pecrapta.html

 :dontknow: :mshrug: :dunno2: :thinking:  :dontknow:

Again, I'm very interested in the possibilities, it just seems there's so much "competing evidence" that one might need to proceed with caution - open, but not with blinders on  :cool:




« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 01:29:55 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2010, 01:32:27 AM »
But we are still in an age when most people are blinded--'this evil age'--and God apparently wants it that way.

I haven't had time to read this thread yet but I realized a long time ago that the nt scriptures were probably written in Hebrew.  It was in response to a question I had about why Jesus called himself 'Son of man.'  I finally realized he was calling himself 'Son of Adam,' as opposed to what the others called him, 'Son of David.'  But you don't see that in the Greek--you just see the word, anthropos--'man.'

There is a Bible floating around that does all the translations from the Hebrew.  And they use the name of Y'shua for Jesus because that is his Hebrew name.

Yet, this is our time--the time of the Gentiles--and Greek is our language.  So I don't really object to the Greek.  It's much more like English than Hebrew is.

It could be that now we are at the end of the age and the final harvesting, so knowledge is increasing and all these things are being made clearer [by ww's links, for instance].


Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."


We are living in exciting times, in some ways it's great that the sacred name of Jesus has been hidden form the masses, because that name is blasphemed constantly, maybe this was Gods great wisdom to prevent the world blaspheming his sacred name, otherwise perhaps if his name, Hebrew name was blasphemed as much as Jesus is, the world might explode, because of the power of his name and the ingnorance of people concerning the power of the spirit world, for the tongue is a deadly weapon able to kill and destroy and also bring great blessings.
 :2c:


Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9123
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2010, 01:35:06 AM »
And Tony, you've posted this before;

from The Christian Bible;  "The New Contract Writings were written in the Greek language.  However it wasn't the Classical Greek of Aristotle;  rather, they were written in Koine Greek, which was the everyday language used by almost everyone during the First Century A.D. in conversation and commerce throughout the Roman Empire...therefore, plain everyday English has been used in this Bible to properly translate the everyday Greek that the writers used, instead of using the religious and theological terms found in the other Bible translations, which distort the original meaning.

The translators of the KJV were unaware of the differences between Koine Greek and Classical Greek.  The relevant manuscripts had not yet been discovered..."

As I said, let's keep diggin'   :bigGrin:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2