Author Topic: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)  (Read 24292 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #175 on: June 19, 2012, 09:56:58 AM »
(Mark 15:34 [ACV])
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a great voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why have thou forsaken me?
(Mark 15:35 [ACV])
And some of those who stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calls Elijah.

Why did some people assume Jesus called Elijah?

The only possible meaning of Eloi is God/My God. (including all sorts of pagan gods) ==> Aramiac
Eli is shorthand for God and Elijah. ==> Hebrew
Meaning the words were Eli Eli; otherwise nobody would have thought about Elijah.

Older Bible translations are of dubious quality because of the assumption that the used Greek was classic Greek instead of Koine Greek. A similar thing is going on for the Armiac/Hebrew translations.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #176 on: June 19, 2012, 10:26:21 AM »
Idiom #37 - Green and dry trees.

(Luke 23:31 [ACV])
Because if they do these things in the green tree, what will happen in the dry?

(Ezek 20:47 [CLV])
and you have said to the forest of the south:Hear a word of Yahweh:Thus said the Lord Yahweh:Lo, I am kindling in you a fire, And it has devoured in you every moist tree, and every dry tree, Not quenched is the glowing flames, And burnt by it have been all faces from south to north."

Green tree = rightous
Dry tree = wicked
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Luke 23:31 [ACV])
Because if they do these things in the green tree, what will happen in the dry?
==> "do in (someone)" is a Hebrew idiom meaning "do to (someone)"

(Matt 17:12 [CLV])
Yet I am saying to you that Elijah came already, and they did not recognize him, but they do to in him whatever they will. Thus the Son of Mankind also is about to be suffering by them."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Besides translations and idioms there is something else hidden in Luke 23:31.
Jesus never claimed He was the Messiah in a direct way. He used Rabbinic interpretations. One of those interpretations was: Green tree = the Messiah.
So Jesus said: I'm the green tree aka the Messiah Ezekiel wrote about.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #177 on: June 19, 2012, 10:49:21 AM »
Idiom #38 - Hate

(Luke 6:22 [CLV])
Happy are you whenever men should be hating you, and whenever they should be severing from you and reproaching you and casting out your name as wicked, on account of the Son of Mankind."

(Neh 6:13 [CLV])
so that he [is] an hireling, that I may fear and do so, and I had sinned, and it had been to them for an evil name that they may reproach me.

"as" isn't in the originals. In Hebrew adjective follow nouns.
English: ...wide road leads to destruction.
Hebrew: ...road wide leads to destruction.

So Neh 6:13 renders the words (idiom) in the correct English order. Luke renders them in the Hebrew order and inserted "as" to make it more readeble.
The real translation error isn't in the Greek-->English translation but the Hebrew-->Greek translation.
The original translator did  a1 on 1 translation which wasn't nesicarily wrong but the idiomatic meaning got lost in the proces.
The Greek means "cast/throw out" while the original Hebrew has the meaning of "go out".
So the fuller meaning is "cause to go out". Placed in context "make public" or "publish"

"publish name bad" is an Hebrew idiom for "defame someone", "slander someone"

(Luke 6:22 [WW])
Happy are you whenever men should be hating you, and whenever they should be severing from you and reproaching you and slander your name, on account of the Son of Mankind."
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #178 on: June 19, 2012, 10:55:07 AM »
Quoting gregoryfl


Hey WW, I love the examples you are giving. As a translator who believes in a semitic NT, it is good to read what others are finding from entering the thinking of the peoples and culture of the time. Here is an interesting example I found, from the Aramaic language. I will be translating once I finish with the Tanakh. It concerns the word 'Devil'.
 
 The Aramaic word translated as 'devil' is

אכלקרץ
It consists of 2 Hebrew words:

אכל
קרץ

The 1st word, Strongs 398, means 'to eat'. It is also Strongs 400, meaning 'food', or 'what is eaten.'

The 2nd word is Strongs 7169, 7170, and 7171, which means 'to pry.' It is used in two senses, 'to pry into something' or 'to pry something off', by grasping or pinching.

It is used in the sense of prying off a piece of clay:
Behold, I am corresponding to you before El; I myself also was nipped [pried] off from the clay.
(Job 33:6 CLV)

It is used in the sense of prying eyes:
Who winks [pries] with his eyes, who declares with his feet, Who signals with his fingers;"
(Pro 6:13 CLV)
This action is demonstrated by opening the eye or eyes wide and leaning in the direction you are prying in.

It is also used in the sense of prying lips:
He who fixes his eyes in devising duplicity, Who twitches [pries] his lips, he determines evil."
(Pro 16:30 CLV)
This action is demonstrated by pinching the lips together and pointing them in the direction you are prying in.

The Aramaic equivalent, Strongs 7170, is also used in the sense of those who negatively pry into the affairs of others, commonly translated as 'accuse.'
Wherefore, at the stated time, the masters of the Chaldeans draw near and accuse [pry] the Jews."
(Dan 3:8 CLV)

One final word to consider is Strongs 7171, used once in Scripture to refer to an insect that 'prys' into animals, particularly cattle; commonly understood to be a type of gadfly.
Egypt is a very fair heifer; the gad-fly [prying insect] cometh, it cometh from the north.
(Jer 46:20 Darby)

The Greek word translated 'devil' means 'to accuse'. The verb form of this word is used in the Septuagint in Dan 3:8, which tells us that the Greek word 'διαβολου' is related to the Aramaic and Hebrew root קרץ.

When we put these two words together, I see the word 'Devil' in Aramaic meaning something like 'Prying Eater.' There is much that can be gleaned from this, but I will stop here.
    One more thing I forgot to mention... In the 2 uses of the Aramaic word found in Daniel, we see the two words in question used together, but as separate words. Here they are:

(Dan 3:8)
ח כל קבל דנה בה זמנא קרבו גברין כשדאין ואכלו קרציהון די יהודיא


(Dan 6:24)
כה ואמר מלכא והיתיו גבריא אלך די אכלו קרצוהי די דניאל ולגוב אריותא רמו אנון בניהון ונשיהון ולא מטו לארעית גבא עד די שלטו בהון אריותא וכל גרמיהון הדקו

The phrase literally means "eat pried parts', a very vivid picture of accusation and slander.

Therefore, the 2 verses, translated this way:

(Dan 3:8 CLV) Wherefore, at the stated time, the masters of the Chaldeans draw near and accuse the Jews."
(Dan 6:24 CLV) Then the king speaks the word, and they bring hither these masters who had accused Daniel"...

Could be rendered more literally this way:

Wherefore, at the stated time, the masters of the Chaldeans draw near and ate their pried parts, that of the Jews."
Then the king speaks the word, and they bring hither these masters who had eaten his pried parts, that of Daniel"...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #179 on: June 19, 2012, 11:10:18 AM »
Quote from: rosered on April 03, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
   I love these WW ! 
 Do you have any about laying on hands of the sick to recover ?


From Alfred Edersheim an orthodox Jew that became a (leading) Christian scholar/minister.

Laying on of Hands
But this was only the commencement of the service. Women might bring their sacrifices into the Great Court; but they might not perform the second rite— of laying on of hands. This meant transmission and delegation, and implied representation; so that it really pointed to the substitution of the sacrifice for the sacrificer. Hence it was always accompanied by confession of sin and prayer. It was thus done. The sacrifice was so turned that the person confessing looked towards the west, while he laid his hands between the horns of the sacrifice, * and if the sacrifice was brought by more than one, each had to lay on his hands.

* If the offerer stood outside the Court of the Priests, on the topmost of the fifteen Levitical steps, or within the gate of Nicanor, his hands at least must be within the Great Court, or the rite was not valid.

It is not quite a settled point whether one or both hands were laid on; but all are agreed that it was to be done 'with one's whole force'— it were, to lay one's whole weight upon the substitute. *

* Children, the blind, the deaf, those out of their minds, and non-Israelites, were not allowed to 'lay on hands.'

If a person under vow had died, his heir-at-law took his place. The only public sacrifices in which hands were laid on were those for sins of public ignorance (Lev 4:15; 16:21), when the 'elders' acted as representing the people— which some Rabbinical authorities add public sin-offerings in general (on the ground of 2 Chron 29:23)— the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement, on which the high-priest laid his hands. In all private sacrifices, except firstlings, tithes, and the Paschal lamb, hands were laid on, and, while doing so, the following prayer was repeated: 'I entreat, O Jehovah: I have sinned, I have done perversely, I have rebelled, I have committed (naming the sin, trespass, or, in case of a burnt-offering, the breach of positive or negative command); but I return in repentance, and let this be for my atonement (covering).' According to Maimonides, in peace-offerings a record of God's praise, rather than a confession of sins, was spoken. But, as the principle prevailed that frequent confession even without sacrifice was meritorious, another formula is also recorded, in which the allusion to sacrifices is omitted.

Closely connected with this was 'the lifting and waving' of certain sacrifices. The priest put his hands under those of the offerer, and moved the sacrifice upwards and downwards, right and left; according to Abarbanel also 'forwards and backwards.' The lamb of the leper's trespass-offering was waved before it was slain (Lev 14:24); private peace-offerings, only after they had been slain; while in public peace-offerings, the practice varied.

 

The above is about animal sacrifice. I'm not sure it's relevant to your question? Does the laying of hands "transfer" prayers into the sick person? Usally the laying of hands transfered sins.


Later I replied:

Transferring the spirit?

(Deut 34:9 [YLT])
And Joshua son of Nun is full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands upon him, and the sons of Israel hearken unto him, and do as Jehovah commanded Moses.


1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #180 on: June 19, 2012, 11:39:46 AM »
Idiom #39 - Snakes & poison

The misunderstanding of this idiom actually killed Christians who understood it literally.

(Mark 16:18 [CLV])
they will be picking up serpents; and if they should be drinking anything deadly, it should under no circumstances be harming them; they will be placing hands on those who are ailing, and ideally will they be having it."

Serpents can literally mean serpent/snake/viper.
Jesus called the Scribes vipers. Satan is often called serpent. I don't know how satan looks, but I doubt it's a literal snake. The scribes very likely looked 100% human too.
Like in English a snake/viper/serpent can also mean a bad person. An enemy.

"pick up snakes" = "handling an enemy"


"anything deadly"=Poison = false teachings. They won't be poisoned (aka deceived) by hearing false teachings.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 08:31:55 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #181 on: June 19, 2012, 11:40:29 AM »
Idiom #40 - Plucking out eyes and cutting of limbs

(Mark 9:43 [ACV])
And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off. It is good for thee to enter into life maimed, than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,

(Mark 9:44 [ACV])
where their worm does not perish, and the fire is not quenched.
(Mark 9:45 [ACV])
And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off. It is good for thee to enter into life crippled, than having thy two feet to be cast into hell, into the unquenchable fire
(Mark 9:46 [ACV])
where their worm does not perish, and the fire is not quenched.
(Mark 9:47 [ACV])
And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, pluck it out. It is good for thee to enter into the kingdom of God one-eyed, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire,
Reading the above literally a repenting Christian/Jew should mutalate himself as an act of repenting.
That seems to contradict:
(1Cor 6:19 [NET])
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
(1Cor 6:20 [NET])
For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.

Does a repenting person glorify God by mutilating his body/temple?

It's a very simple idiom. If you have a bad habbit stop it.
So if a man uses his eyes to lustfully look at women he should stop doing so.
If a hand steals then repent and stop stealing.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #182 on: June 19, 2012, 11:41:03 AM »
Idiom #41 - Eyes of your heart.

Eph 1:18 the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, for you to perceive what is the expectation of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of the enjoyment of His allotment among the saints,

I think in this case it's very obvious it must be an idiom.

A heart is the organ of knowledge and understanding.
English has a similar idiom: Learn it by heart.
So the verse is about deep understanding.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #183 on: June 19, 2012, 11:41:42 AM »
Idiom #42 - Bowels

Phil 1:8  "For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ."

Above I wrote the heart is the organ of intelect. Bowels  are the organs of compassion.

Phil 1:8  "For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels love/compassion of Jesus Christ."

I have to admit I always thought the   is the organ of love...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #184 on: June 19, 2012, 11:42:31 AM »
Idiom #43 - declare his generation

Acts 8:33 s: "In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

(Isa 53:8 [AKJV])
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

It means someone doesn't have descendants.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #185 on: June 19, 2012, 11:44:00 AM »
Idiom #44 - To go = increase

John 12:11 "Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

"went away" is "to go" in Hebrew.
To go can mean "go away", "depart" or similar. But the idiomatic meaning is "increase".

So the verse doesn't say the Jews went away but the Jews gained more and more knowledge of Jesus. The believed Jesus more and more.

(Gen 26:13 [ACV])
And the man became great, and grew more and more until he became very great.
==> The man kept going/to go getting bigger.

(1Sam 14:19 [ACV])
And it came to pass, while Saul talked to the priest, that the tumult that was in the camp of the Philistines went on and increased. And Saul said to the priest, Withdraw thy hand.
==> To go. The camp was increasing is size.


So a house to go isn't a mobile home but a household growing in numbers  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #186 on: June 19, 2012, 11:44:47 AM »
Idiom #45 - slow/burning heart.

(Luke 24:25 [YLT])
And he said unto them, `O inconsiderate and slow in heart, to believe on all that the prophets spake!
==> Correct translation

(Luke 24:32 [ACV])
And they said to each other, Was not our heart burning within us while he spoke to us on the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?
==> Wrong translation

Hebrew reads heavy/sluggish heart.
The heart is the organ of understanding (Idiom #16). Having a slow heart means having difficulty understanding.

Luke 23:32 compares the deep knowlegde/expertise of the teacher with shallow understanding of the students. Or they simply said: That teacher knows far more of the Scriptures than we do.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #187 on: June 19, 2012, 11:45:48 AM »
Idiom #46 - Breath

Not really a wrong translations (in most Bibles) but it misses a wordplay.

(Luke 12:11 [KJ2000])
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take you no thought how or what thing you shall answer, or what you shall say:
==> How you breath departs
==> It's a idiom for "how to speak propely/correctly"

(Luke 12:12 [KJ2000])
For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say.
==> Holy Spirit is also breath. So the wordplay is linking speech to the HS.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #188 on: June 19, 2012, 12:09:05 PM »
Thank you for posting these!! I love reading them, they shed so much light on scripture.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #189 on: July 05, 2012, 09:40:37 PM »
Idiom #47 - Blood of grapes

Blood of grapes = wine

Genesis 49:11 - "He washes his garment in wine, and his robes in the blood of grapes." Deuteronomy 32:14 - "of the blood of grapes you drank wine."
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #190 on: July 11, 2012, 07:10:16 PM »
Idiom #48 - Descent to ascent

The source of this idiom lies in the world of Hasidism. Descent, in any possible form, is sometimes essential for ascent.
Slavery in Egypt, for example, was descent for the sake of ascent. We descended to the lowest possible depths in order to receive the Torah on Mount Sinai and to rise to a new dimension.

I think it aligns with what several wrote on this forum. God breaks you down and then rebuilds you into something better.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:29:08 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #191 on: July 11, 2012, 07:17:28 PM »
Idiom #49 - You have a long neck.

You like to cheat. You are a cheater.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

truthquest

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #192 on: July 12, 2012, 08:23:56 PM »
Idiom #45 - slow/burning heart.

(Luke 24:25 [YLT])
And he said unto them, `O inconsiderate and slow in heart, to believe on all that the prophets spake!
==> Correct translation

(Luke 24:32 [ACV])
And they said to each other, Was not our heart burning within us while he spoke to us on the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?
==> Wrong translation

Hebrew reads heavy/sluggish heart.
The heart is the organ of understanding (Idiom #16). Having a slow heart means having difficulty understanding.

Luke 23:32 compares the deep knowlegde/expertise of the teacher with shallow understanding of the students. Or they simply said: That teacher knows far more of the Scriptures than we do.
Yes, this is something that I only recently came to understand regarding the "heart burning". Previously I thought it meant that their hearts were burning as with an understanding, that touched their hearts and made their hearts glow and "burn" in a good way. I was having a hard time reconciling Luke 24:25 with Luke 24:32. So I had to compare different translations.
For example the Aramaic bible reads: Luke 24:32 And they were saying one to another, "Was not our heart dull within us when he was speaking with us on the road and expounding to us the scriptures?" Then I could see how both these scriptures say and mean the same thing whereas before I thought there was a contradiction. And he said unto them, Luke 24:25 'O inconsiderate and slow in heart, to believe on all that the prophets spake!
I think the Aramaic bible makes Luke 24:25 even more clear. Then Yeshua said to them, "Oh deficient of mind and slow of heart to believe in all the things that The Prophets have spoken!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 08:52:45 PM by truthquest »

truthquest

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #193 on: July 12, 2012, 09:25:31 PM »
Idiom #48 - Descent to ascent

The source of this idiom lies in the world of Hasidism. Descent, in any possible form, is sometimes essential for ascent.
Slavery in Egypt, for example, was descent for the sake of ascent. We descended to the lowest possible depths in order to receive the Torah on Mount Sinai and to rise to a new dimension.

I think it aligns with what several wrote on this forum. God breaks you down and then rebuikld you into something better.
I'd like to hear more about this. My first thought was that if we don't understand earthly things then we can't understand heavenly things. But I think it means more than that. It seems it has more to do with God's will being accomplished and even through the lives of people that brings them closer to God.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #194 on: July 12, 2012, 10:19:34 PM »
Idiom #48 - Descent to ascent

The source of this idiom lies in the world of Hasidism. Descent, in any possible form, is sometimes essential for ascent.
Slavery in Egypt, for example, was descent for the sake of ascent. We descended to the lowest possible depths in order to receive the Torah on Mount Sinai and to rise to a new dimension.

I think it aligns with what several wrote on this forum. God breaks you down and then rebuikld you into something better.
I'd like to hear more about this.
Maybe other can add spiritual meanings.
Quote
My first thought was that if we don't understand earthly things then we can't understand heavenly things. But I think it means more than that. It seems it has more to do with God's will being accomplished and even through the lives of people that brings them closer to God.
I think it's a idiom that can apply to a thouand and one situations.
The true meaning is likely quite flexible.
So about God's work being accomplished...  that's (often) meaning letting go of the carnal/worldly stuff. That means losing things. I think that's a form of descent. Even more if you call letting go of the world is symbolic death and so descent into the grave.
I could think of a few more applications of this idiom but to be honest it's all speculation. I know of no official list or something like that, but it simply seems to mean "you" often have to go trough bad times to harvest good times later. :popout:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline reFORMer

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #195 on: July 13, 2012, 07:58:56 AM »
After several decades of strong supposition that Aramaic was the common tongue, it was supposedly settled by archeologists a few years ago that Hebrew was the language of the Jews in the land when Jesus walked in His flesh among us.  As to the idea the NT was originally in Hebrew, the only thing I've encountered are inferences drawn comparing Greek and Hebrew, no existing texts.  It seems to me that the only thing we can be reasonable certain of is that people who thought, spoke and read Hebrew as native to themselves wrote the NT (with God's inspiration.)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #196 on: July 13, 2012, 08:46:05 AM »
After several decades of strong supposition that Aramaic was the common tongue, it was supposedly settled by archeologists a few years ago that Hebrew was the language of the Jews in the land when Jesus walked in His flesh among us.  As to the idea the NT was originally in Hebrew, the only thing I've encountered are inferences drawn comparing Greek and Hebrew, no existing texts.
There are of course several quotes by the Church fathers claiming a Hebrew Matthew. (only once I saw a church father claiming an other Hebrew book) Of course the only 100% certain thing is that you personally have watched an Apostle pen down the words in Hebrew.
But imo the most important question isn't if Matthew wrote in Hebrew, Greek, English, Spanish or German. In all those languages it's possible to write 100% error free texts
It the grammar rules used and the idioms that really matter. Should a translator translate the manuscripts with Hebrew, Armiac, Classical Greek or Koine Greek rules.
Koine Greek can be translated to Hebrew without reordering words. In most cases that results in a grammatically correct Hebrew verse. So even if Matthew, or any other Apostle, beyond a doubt wrote Greek it seems to me they did so with a 100% Hebrew line of thoughts.
Also let not forget the Bible itself claims Hebrew in several verses. It only claims Greek and Latin once. (the sign Pilate ordered nailed above Jesus' head) But even then Hebrew is claimed also.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #197 on: July 15, 2012, 08:01:03 PM »
Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Heb 2:1  Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


Galatians
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Abraham's seed was one, Jesus. The law was given to prepare the world for Jesus, in whom the law was embodied in the spirit of love, for love does no ill to its neighbor, and fulfills the law- all of which is enfolded in two commandments, both of which are fulfilled for those who are walking in the spirit and in the promise- in Christ.







The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #198 on: October 19, 2012, 08:24:10 PM »
Idiom #41 - Eyes of your heart.

Eph 1:18 the eyes of your heart having been enlightened, for you to perceive what is the expectation of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of the enjoyment of His allotment among the saints,

I think in this case it's very obvious it must be an idiom.

A heart is the organ of knowledge and understanding.
English has a similar idiom: Learn it by heart.
So the verse is about deep understanding.

WW - your gracious and very generous sharings of invaluable information have truly blessed me and have greatly reduced the amount of time and energy required for my great need/search to know the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.

Eph 1:18 has long been a favorite of mine. 

Thanks so much.  From my heart:  may God richly bless you.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Reply #199 on: August 14, 2013, 02:52:43 PM »
Idiom #50 - Thief in the night.

This isn't a cat burglar.

It's a thief barging in all guns blazing. Very loud and agressive.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...