Author Topic: The laws of reality  (Read 1301 times)

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DC

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The laws of reality
« on: March 14, 2011, 01:05:23 AM »
Are there any bible quotes that strongly imply that God would never allow the fundamental and metaphysical laws of reality and existence to be tampered with? 

Offline thinktank

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 01:31:46 AM »
Perhaps when God stopped the people from building a tower into heaven. I think this is more complex than just simply building a tall structure, but perhaps they were building a device to enter heaven itself, because God intervened massively and confused their language.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 07:13:59 AM »



Psalm 24:

The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it...

Offline Lefein

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2011, 07:29:22 AM »
I don't think we know all of (or enough of) the laws of Reality to really gather an idea that God can't fiddle with them if he decides to.  I mean, we don't really have any idea what 11 dimensions are like...
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

DC

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2011, 02:05:18 PM »
I guess what I want to know is if there are any scriptures that imply that God would never tamper with the metaphysical aspects of a persons very being (I.E., what makes you you from you perspective)

Offline Nathan

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 05:19:19 PM »
Experiencing a physical healing . . .wouldn't that be a "form" of God changing the metaphysical?  A man who was born as  . . .say one who had a deformed arm . . .along with that would come the forming of that person's personality as they encountered reactions from those around them, as well as adapting to life generally geared for two-armed people . . .then Jesus comes along, has the guy stretch forth his hand "toward Christ" and in doing so, it's restored to full operation.  Would that not change not only the physical part, but the emotional, mental, personality part as well?

As to the referal to the building of the tower . . .I don't see men back then literally finding a secret of breaking a natural plain into the spiritual plain through the building of a tower . . .but I think it was more of a mindset, they believed they could physically accomplish what could only be done spiritually . . .physical people can manipulate spiritual influences . . .they would definitely have been able to accomplish that . . .but I don't think God was afraid of someone finding him behind the secret curtain, I think God did what he did because one, the call was for man to spread out and multiply and they did just the opposite.  And two, they were building a monument "unto themselves" rather than honoring God. 

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2011, 05:52:39 PM »



metamorphoō



Offline thinktank

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 09:43:46 PM »
Experiencing a physical healing . . .wouldn't that be a "form" of God changing the metaphysical?  A man who was born as  . . .say one who had a deformed arm . . .along with that would come the forming of that person's personality as they encountered reactions from those around them, as well as adapting to life generally geared for two-armed people . . .then Jesus comes along, has the guy stretch forth his hand "toward Christ" and in doing so, it's restored to full operation.  Would that not change not only the physical part, but the emotional, mental, personality part as well?

As to the referal to the building of the tower . . .I don't see men back then literally finding a secret of breaking a natural plain into the spiritual plain through the building of a tower . . .but I think it was more of a mindset, they believed they could physically accomplish what could only be done spiritually . . .physical people can manipulate spiritual influences . . .they would definitely have been able to accomplish that . . .but I don't think God was afraid of someone finding him behind the secret curtain, I think God did what he did because one, the call was for man to spread out and multiply and they did just the opposite.  And two, they were building a monument "unto themselves" rather than honoring God.

Nathan I never thought I'd say this   :mshock: but your thinking to naturally  :laughing7:

When I say they build a tower, God said they have become one mind and can accomplish anything they put their mind too.

 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

What I see is that all these minds working in unison and harmony would produce spiritual power and knowledge beyond our imaginations. Also you say that they would reach God and see him behind the curtain, I don't think God would be the first person they would see, but rather the devil, principalities and powers in heavenly places, or perhaps just they would be in the spiritual ream, but ignore God.

Your idea that God spread them out because they refused, seems a bit paculiar, in the sense that mankind had disobeyed God since Adam and Eve, so why would God intervene in such a powerful way. Ok there are instances where God forces his hand , such as the cherubum guarding the entrance of the garden. But.....



Offline Nathan

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 11:11:18 PM »
Guarding the garden?  To what?  Keep Adam out?  You sure that was what was going on there as well?

As for God intervening . . .what about Jonah?  Did God not intervene on behalf of Ninnevah there as well?  What about when Israel was enslaved to Egypt . . .did not God intervene there?  Abraham with the sacrificing of his son . . .didn't God intervene there?  Countless times all through Scirpture God intervenes all the time.

I can't really answer to the thinking of what they would find . . .I don't see it as you do at all on that one. 

The "one mind" thing is what I was getting at on the "Everybody callin' on Jesus" thread . . .what's going on over in Japan is perhaps a way to get people to start calling on the name of the Lord . . .the result would be earth-shattering.

Offline thinktank

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
Yes I think I am right  that God stops Adam entering the garden, lest he eat the tree of life and live for ever. I don't see much else going on here, apart from also that God wanted Adam and Eve to suffer in a cursed Earth, rather than live in a luxurious garden.

Yes you are right that God intervenes many times, but I find the confusing language intervention, much larger than the others, in the sense God interferes with Mans very speech, this is the equivalent of muting the speech of a country the size of Iraq?

According to prophet kim clement, Japan's earthquake will cause them to unite with China to bring glory to Jesus. The difference between man uniting under Jesus, as opposed to man uniting under their own rule with the tower of Babylon.

Offline Nathan

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 05:02:29 PM »
Yes I think I am right  that God stops Adam entering the garden, lest he eat the tree of life and live for ever. I don't see much else going on here, apart from also that God wanted Adam and Eve to suffer in a cursed Earth, rather than live in a luxurious garden.

Yes you are right that God intervenes many times, but I find the confusing language intervention, much larger than the others, in the sense God interferes with Mans very speech, this is the equivalent of muting the speech of a country the size of Iraq?

According to prophet kim clement, Japan's earthquake will cause them to unite with China to bring glory to Jesus. The difference between man uniting under Jesus, as opposed to man uniting under their own rule with the tower of Babylon.

I don't see the garden as a natural place where a literal angel was placed on guard to keep man out.  It's been God's desire from the beginning to dwell "with" man, in spite of man's selfishness and rebellions . . .I see the garden to be a spiritual place, not a literal one.  I see Eden to be a natural place, but not the garden of Eden.  I believe that's why God placed man "in" the garden AFTER he created him.  Otherwise, he could have just created Adam out of the dust of the ground that was in the garden, but he didn't, he created from the of the earth and then placed him in the garden afterward.

I also don't see the flaming sword . ..(who is the sword?) posted at the gate of the garden to keep man out . . .but I believe the illumination of the flame is to be a beacon for man to find his way back in.  Like a lighthouse at the edge of the land, the flaming sword is at the edge of the garden.  I also think that it's connected to the veil in the tabernacle that was removed, ripped from top (mind) to bottom (walk).  The day the veil was torn, for me, was the same day the gate to the garden was openned to man once again. 

Offline thinktank

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 10:29:56 PM »
I am kind of halfway with you, in the sense I think the garden is a bit like a garden with supernatural ingridients, very similar to how new Jerusalem in the book of Revelation, that is magical and from heaven, but yet earthly and allows earthly beings, such as birds, animals, trees and Adam and Eve to dwell and live there, where inside it is nice and cosy and full of life, where God walks among them, but outside is darkness .i.e night time, thorns, ravenous beasts, temperature extremes, sharp rocks etc


Offline Nathan

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2011, 10:42:13 PM »
Only thing is, the things you list on the outside are found on a "cursed earth"  The curse will be lifted when the New Jerusalem manifests . . .which for me isn't a place as much as it is a people. . . .which is us . . .

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2011, 12:12:14 AM »
Are there any bible quotes that strongly imply that God would never allow the fundamental and metaphysical laws of reality and existence to be tampered with?
Depends on how you read verses....
- It's impossible for New Jerusalem to literally exist.
- Sky is rolled up like a scroll.
- Always day.
- Even for God it's impossible to maintain this universe forever with the current set of laws. The laws of nature all point to rest. Absolute zero (and nothingness)
- A "new earth" is impossible too. Things only get older and never renew.

The only way for things to be differently is by altering the fundamental laws....  (not just a minor tweak)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The laws of reality
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2011, 12:14:09 AM »
I don't think we know all of (or enough of) the laws of Reality to really gather an idea that God can't fiddle with them if he decides to.  I mean, we don't really have any idea what 11 dimensions are like...
I think the question is not if God *can* fiddle with laws of nature; but the question is if He will really do so.
I think He must. (see above)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...