Author Topic: the "sinner's prayer"  (Read 1898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Deena

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Gender: Female
the "sinner's prayer"
« on: November 24, 2012, 05:11:33 PM »
Before I believed in Ur, the goal when evangelizing was mapped out by the "four spiritual laws" tract which leads to the sinner's prayer. Now that I no longer believe in "turn or burn" theology, I am a bit confused about what someone must do to be saved. Is it simply done by believing and confessing it to be true?

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 06:16:57 PM »
That's what Paul said to answer the question of the Phillipian Jailer, "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?"
Paul replied, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - you and your family"

Almost every time the word "believe" is used in this context, the amplified bible puts in clarification parenthesis:

"trust in, adhere to, rely on" It has helped me a lot since the english word believe is so ambiguous(sp?)

"I believe it's going to rain today." "I believe I'll have a second helping of turkey." "I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9080
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 11:37:28 PM »
That's what Paul said to answer the question of the Phillipian Jailer, "Sirs, what must I DO to be saved?"
Paul replied, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - you and your family"


"trust in, adhere to, rely on"

 :thumbsup:

I believe it takes the same thing, whether ET or UR believer.  As is the case with thousands of believers down through the centuries - I was spiritually reborn many years before God showed me His plan of UR.

I believe one must first be drawn by the Holy Spirit, then be given the faith to believe (trust in) Jesus as their Savior.  Some in this lifetime, the rest in the next.  ("No man comes to the Father except through Me" - Jesus.  "it's by grace through faith you are saved, and that not of yourselves").

Offline lomarah

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • Gender: Female
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 02:42:59 AM »
Deena - we are saved from sin and death. We are "dead in trespasses and sins".  The wages of sin is death. Christ saves us from sin and death (not "hell", or at least not in the traditional view). All who sin are slaves to sin. (Everyone is born in sin.) Sin hurts us. He saves us from sin and death as we put our faith in His saving grace. In a very real and literal sense. In this life, now, He will free us from sin and every thing that holds us captive as we simply put our faith in Him to do it. This is the good news!! Christ came to free us from sin and death and to bring us a Way to the Father! Oh I wish everyone could see and feel His longing for us! Oh that everyone would seek Him with all of their heart! They would find their true hearts desire. He is wonderful!!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline bushy

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Gender: Male
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 06:03:19 AM »
1John 4:14, "The Father has sent His Son to be the savior of the world." And 1 Timothy 2:6, "who gave Himself as a ransom for all."  This event is ancient history to us now since it happened almost 2000 years ago and we don't have to believe anything or do anything for this stage of our salvation to have happened. And,  Galations 1:4, "who gave Himself for our sins to rescue us from this present evil age according to the will of our God and Father." This is what we were saved from at that time and we didn't have anything to do with it. This shows really clearly that salvation is universal, at least this part.

But then there is the big problem of our sins which is a pretty long list of the deeds of the flesh that we need to be freed from. Ephesians 2:5, "even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)", This salvation happened when we believed, at least part of it and the rest is ongoing for the rest of our life. John 3:36, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 5:24, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

Mostly I feel like I'm writing this to myself because these are some things I have been trying to understand lately, like what we are saved from and believing seemed like works that we do to be saved instead of a gift. I once saw that what we do is what we believe, not what is part of our theology. That makes believing really important for what we do and the changes that we make in our lives.

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 06:10:05 AM »
Yep. We don't do good works to be saved.
We do good works because we are already saved.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 08:52:46 AM »
Good answers!
__________________________
When we have opportunity, what we share with others can be more personal and interwoven with their lives than some preconceived "plan of salvation," though that may be just the thing in certain circumstances.  This is often different from what we are dealing with as we work out our own salvation, having walked with God for a while.

Beginners are concerned with the outer court of the temple where the focus is on judgement (the altar of sacrifice) and cleansing (the laver.)  What transpires here is with a natural or even carnal understanding (under the sun.)  This is where the virgins (those who have not been intimate with the bridegroom) are.  It seems to me the time spent in the outer court can be very much shortened.

When we are born again this preivious realm becomes ours and we are transferred into the holy place.  Jesus is our lamb upon the altar, and, "He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured upon us richly..." (Titus 35-6, YLT,) speaking of the laver.  Not all can enter on in.  Only those appointed by God constitute the Priesthood.  We must be a priest to enter the holy place.  This is what we become by spiritual regeneration.  Then, beyond is the holy of holies, the holiest of all.

Without much elaboration, my mention of these three realms is to illustrate how we are yet in the house, though we leave one realm to dwell in another.  We may be concerned about the anointing in the word that has brought forth the Eclessia (the candlestick) and another has no interest in such things, being preoccupied with repeated stumbling in certain sins.  Not everybody is ready to enter on into God's presence.  Few, if any, can hear those things pertaining to realms beyond their own.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline lomarah

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • Gender: Female
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 01:59:13 PM »
Ah! Good point reF!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline CHB

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2072
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 05:43:02 PM »
I think we have been saved since the foundation of the earth (Eph. 1:4-5). We, along with everyone else just didn't, or don't, understand this yet.

We are going to be saved in spite of ourselves because it was in the plan of God before he even created us.

Here is why we do good works. (Eph. 2:10) For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them.

CHB

Offline Deena

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Gender: Female
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 01:01:46 PM »
So it is not that we are trying to get them to do something, but are simply sharing the truth of what Christ has done (reconciled us to God) so that people can be free from the torment of impending judgement? That is good news!

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2012, 04:31:11 PM »
Exactly Deena. Having a "requirement" that must be met such as "going forward"  "Signing a declaration of faith card" "getting baptized" are all "works" which none of us are saved by. There is nothing wrong with them but these things should be done as a result of being saved - not as a "step" to salvation. How often I heard "Once saved, always saved, and when I was nine years old I went forward and gave Jesus my heart and was baptized... so you can't judge me for having this adulterous affair. The bible says we aren't under the law anymore and all things are lawful so you can't tell me it's wrong."
This woman was justifying her life on the acts(works) of an emotional nine-year old. My, how are attitude changes when puberty hits us!

CHB-we are in agreement so much it's almost like we both keep basing our thoughts on what the one same book says :laugh:
 
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline CHB

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2072
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 06:52:50 PM »
Well Ded, I am so honored by that. Thank you.

CHB

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5959
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 01:34:35 AM »
I think we have been saved since the foundation of the earth (Eph. 1:4-5). We, along with everyone else just didn't, or don't, understand this yet.

We are going to be saved in spite of ourselves because it was in the plan of God before he even created us.

Here is why we do good works. (Eph. 2:10) For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them.

CHB

 :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4438
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2012, 08:35:21 AM »
Exactly Deena. Having a "requirement" that must be met such as "going forward"  "Signing a declaration of faith card" "getting baptized" are all "works" which none of us are saved by. There is nothing wrong with them but these things should be done as a result of being saved - not as a "step" to salvation. How often I heard "Once saved, always saved, and when I was nine years old I went forward and gave Jesus my heart and was baptized... so you can't judge me for having this adulterous affair. The bible says we aren't under the law anymore and all things are lawful so you can't tell me it's wrong."
This woman was justifying her life on the acts(works) of an emotional nine-year old. My, how are attitude changes when puberty hits us!

CHB-we are in agreement so much it's almost like we both keep basing our thoughts on what the one same book says :laugh:
 

Glad you guys agree so much....it warms my heart :o)

I have to disagree a little tho :doh: (just kidding, I don't think this is really disagreeable- you tell me :o)

It all depends on what we hear when we hear the word "saved". Peter said, "In the same way baptism saves you....not by the cleansing of dirt from the body, but by the answer of a clear conscience". Also Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved".

What does Peter mean?

Well, I believe we are so conditioned by generations of hell teaching that whenever we hear "saved" we go in our thoughts immediately to heaven or hell and we get all uptight about what "saves us". This is really about "initial salvation", deliverance from the old man.

Then, when scriptures that talk about "continuing salvation" come up people get all uptight.

"saved" simply means delivered, healed, made whole. We are initially delivered, healed, made whole only by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves- it is the gift of God."

God's "saving" begins whenever we are born by the implanting of the incorruptible seed trhough faith in Christ. It continues in the waters of baptism where we are sealed, buried, separated from the world and given the answer of a clear conscience in obedience to the word of Christ, it is empowered as we are filled with the Holy SPirit, and it grows deeper and deeper as we walk in the Spirit and perservere through trial and temptation.

"The one who perseveres to the end shall be saved" says Jesus. Is this salvation by works? Of course not. It is the deliverance that comes through progressive salvation as we abide in Christ.


But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
(Tit 3:4-7)

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2Th 2:13-14)

Salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth is an abiding thing. We get more and more healed, more and more whole, more and more "saved" as we continue, established in the faith.

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
(Col 1:19-23)

If we begin to sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth (sins unto death persistently) then the "healing" becomes an even deeper injury(better never to have known than to have known and turned away, last state worst than the first) as we wither and dry up, to be cut-off from the fire and be thrown into the fire of "kolassis", but even that is so that the "spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus"(1 Cor 3:15, 1 Cor 5:5) and even that is subject to the hope and the active prayer by all the saints that such a one would return to their senses and be re-united to Christ before such correction becomes engaged and irreversible.

At every point God is always "saving", even by correction. That is the spirit of reconciliation :o) Wish all Christians had it!
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2012, 04:11:30 PM »
Yep.
I figured out if someone expects me to agree with them, just back up what you say with scripture or interlace it with scripture or even just make statements that are in -line with scripture. I'm easy. :laugh:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Deena

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Gender: Female
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 12:58:57 PM »
EW: I hate that word "if". It has tortured me. The word is so conditional, and when it is attached to my God's standards it is terrible. I don't know what to do with it. I know I am not capable to keep myself good/holy etc, so the "if" part feels like a trap door. Look out--you are only safe if...

Offline ded2daworld

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2099
  • Gender: Male
  • What if today we were just grateful for everything
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 03:25:18 PM »
quote from EW (quoting from bible) - -" if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard,"
Deena, I don't think this "if" has anything to do with keeping the commandments. It says if we have not moved away from the HOPE of the good news. If someone doesn't believe the good news, how could they be a partakedr in this life?
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4438
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: the "sinner's prayer"
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 08:25:24 PM »
EW: I hate that word "if". It has tortured me. The word is so conditional, and when it is attached to my God's standards it is terrible. I don't know what to do with it. I know I am not capable to keep myself good/holy etc, so the "if" part feels like a trap door. Look out--you are only safe if...

continuing steadfast in the faith means exactly the opposite deena :o) It means stayin in the love and grace of Christ through faith.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/re-will/msg145443/#msg145443
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com