Author Topic: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?  (Read 1656 times)

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Fang_Diachi

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Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« on: January 04, 2009, 12:36:35 AM »
This is a random question that seemed to enter my mind, but I wish to hear your opinions on it. Do you believe through prayer it is possible to speak to someone who has died in Heaven? I do not mean like a living conversation, where you speak to them and they speak back, but say for instance you pray to God, and ask to say something to someone in Heaven. Do you think if you say something to them, they will hear it?

Once more just a random question that crossed my mind and I thought would be good for discussion.  :thumbsup:

Blessings. <3
x_Fang_x

martincisneros

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2009, 01:36:54 AM »
It's probably not the best habit to get into until you're much further spiritually with the Word, but if it's someone that recently died that you really really miss, I don't think the Old Testament law about saying nothing to the dead applies, particularly when it's someone you're reasonably sure had things right with our Lord.  The danger, obviously, is making it a habit with everyone that comes to mind, or even with a single person that comes to mind and getting to where you're expecting replies and then something you DON'T WANT TALKING TO YOU starts trying to imitate them and tell you all kinds of stuff, like it's your fault they're dead, or other total nonsense that you'd likely ordinarily blow off.  But when you open that door, you can make yourself vulnerable emotionally and in every other way to deception. 

I had a brief visit a day or two ago from someone that used to post on these boards, but died last year.  Wasn't looking for the visitation.  It was less than a minute.  And there's genuinely nothing to pass along to either his friends or family.  It was something personal in the way of validating things that I stand for that most of the Body at present would view as truths peculiarly my own.  Again, nothing to pass along to anyone else at these boards or to any of his family.  I wasn't looking for confirmations of any kind of anything 'cause I already know my chapter and verse that I base stuff on. 

I'm only bringing this up right now 'cause this question came up as far as whether that kind of communication is possible.  Yeah, it is, but beyond a really, really quick "Lord, tell so and so that I love them, or that I'm sorry about such and such, or that I finally know what you meant by __________, or I'm doing better about______..." I wouldn't generally pursue anything along those lines.  But if it's a part of your having peace for the rest of your life that things are resolved between you and someone else, just be brief and then cast the care completely over on the Lord and don't touch it again in your thought life, knowing that you said your :2c:  Again, this is mainly to avoid oppressive spirits that would try to move in on you.  This is liable to be one of the ways that mediums innocently get started.  Something unresolved, but then they just keep pursuing it and keep pursuing it until a demon materializes and says "hi, I'm _________(fill in the blank)."

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2009, 02:08:43 AM »
 :cloud9: We're admonished not to talk to the dead, because the Lord does not want us to bypass Him for information/instruction. He is the ONLY one who knows the path of life, the only mediator allowed. Christ is our covering, in the sense that a woman was told to have a covering. He is the covering of our soul/woman.

Without this covering, it is the same as the women whom the nephalim spirits coveted and came down and cohabited with in the OT, producing giants in the earth. For this reason, the Lord destroyed the flesh produced, with the flood.

So for this the reason when people open themselves up to any supernatural or occult practices, they have (if they have Him to begin with) removed their Covering, and opened up their souls to attachments by evil entities or spirits. What they are really trying to do is ASCEND spiritually without Christ, which is the same as one of the things Satan wants to do, ie. I will ascend above the throne of the Most High.

Christ will lift us up in heavenly/spiritual places in due season as we mature in Him once there is nothing in our flesh that wants to do it for ourselves. If HE so desires He may allow you to hear or even see, one who has gone on, but it is by and through HIS SPIRIT, and by HIS will, for HIS purposes. That's the difference. His love and blessings to you...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 02:11:28 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Fang_Diachi

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2009, 07:35:37 AM »
It's probably not the best habit to get into until you're much further spiritually with the Word, but if it's someone that recently died that you really really miss, I don't think the Old Testament law about saying nothing to the dead applies, particularly when it's someone you're reasonably sure had things right with our Lord.  The danger, obviously, is making it a habit with everyone that comes to mind, or even with a single person that comes to mind and getting to where you're expecting replies and then something you DON'T WANT TALKING TO YOU starts trying to imitate them and tell you all kinds of stuff, like it's your fault they're dead, or other total nonsense that you'd likely ordinarily blow off.  But when you open that door, you can make yourself vulnerable emotionally and in every other way to deception. 

I had a brief visit a day or two ago from someone that used to post on these boards, but died last year.  Wasn't looking for the visitation.  It was less than a minute.  And there's genuinely nothing to pass along to either his friends or family.  It was something personal in the way of validating things that I stand for that most of the Body at present would view as truths peculiarly my own.  Again, nothing to pass along to anyone else at these boards or to any of his family.  I wasn't looking for confirmations of any kind of anything 'cause I already know my chapter and verse that I base stuff on. 

I'm only bringing this up right now 'cause this question came up as far as whether that kind of communication is possible.  Yeah, it is, but beyond a really, really quick "Lord, tell so and so that I love them, or that I'm sorry about such and such, or that I finally know what you meant by __________, or I'm doing better about______..." I wouldn't generally pursue anything along those lines.  But if it's a part of your having peace for the rest of your life that things are resolved between you and someone else, just be brief and then cast the care completely over on the Lord and don't touch it again in your thought life, knowing that you said your :2c:  Again, this is mainly to avoid oppressive spirits that would try to move in on you.  This is liable to be one of the ways that mediums innocently get started.  Something unresolved, but then they just keep pursuing it and keep pursuing it until a demon materializes and says "hi, I'm _________(fill in the blank)."

Im confused now because Martin says the OT law does not seem to apply, but your saying something completely opposite Cardinal. O.O

But, saying that Martin is correct in the law, what if before you did so you asked God, and the Holy Spirit to protect you from the evil demons that may try to interfere?

And Cardinal im not saying Martin is right, I just had that question from what he posted.

Blessings.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2009, 07:39:29 AM »
 :cloud9: Fang, that's why it's a forum.  :winkgrin: Not everyone sees things exactly the same way. Let the Spirit and the Word speak to YOUR heart on the matter. I'm sharing what the Spirit made life to ME. His love and blessings to you....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Fang_Diachi

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2009, 07:47:13 AM »
:cloud9: Fang, that's why it's a forum.  :winkgrin: Not everyone sees things exactly the same way. Let the Spirit and the Word speak to YOUR heart on the matter. I'm sharing what the Spirit made life to ME. His love and blessings to you....

I know... I just havent been thinking straight lately so sorry about that lol.

Online jabcat

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 09:17:15 AM »
I believe it's called nemocrancy and spoken against in scripture, isn't it?  At least I thought so.  Maybe there's more to it or special circumstances :dontknow:....

Fang_Diachi

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 08:54:36 PM »
I believe it's called nemocrancy and spoken against in scripture, isn't it?  At least I thought so.  Maybe there's more to it or special circumstances :dontknow:....

Hmm I always thought Necromancy was like, calling the dead back to life, controlling skeletons, and that witchcraft/fairy tale type of thing. I didnt know Necromancy was simply speaking to them. =o

Then again I dont know, which is why I posted the topic. =p

Online jabcat

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 09:05:13 PM »
I think I mispelled it, and like you, I sure don't everything about it...I looked up a couple of things;

Necromancy (IPA: /ˈnekɹəˌmænsɪ/) (Greek νεκρομαντία, nekromantía) is a form of divination in which the practitioner seeks to summon "operative spirits" or "spirits of divination", for multiple reasons, from spiritual protection to wisdom. The word necromancy derives from the Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination".

The prophet Isaiah talked about the abomination of seeking an "anointing" and contact with the other world at a grave and called it "rebellious" and "a way that is not good" (65:2), "iniquity" and blasphemy (v. 7). He further indites those: "Who sit among the graves, and spend the night in the tombs" (v. 4). The worst of judgments are pronounced on these vile practices (vs. 13-15).

I'd say search the scriptures and pray for God to reveal His will for you...His spirit will lead you...God's blessing, James.

Fang_Diachi

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 09:09:29 PM »
I think I mispelled it, and like you, I sure don't everything about it...I looked up a couple of things;

Necromancy (IPA: /ˈnekɹəˌmænsɪ/) (Greek νεκρομαντία, nekromantía) is a form of divination in which the practitioner seeks to summon "operative spirits" or "spirits of divination", for multiple reasons, from spiritual protection to wisdom. The word necromancy derives from the Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination".

The prophet Isaiah talked about the abomination of seeking an "anointing" and contact with the other world at a grave and called it "rebellious" and "a way that is not good" (65:2), "iniquity" and blasphemy (v. 7). He further indites those: "Who sit among the graves, and spend the night in the tombs" (v. 4). The worst of judgments are pronounced on these vile practices (vs. 13-15).

I'd say search the scriptures and pray for God to reveal His will for you...His spirit will lead you...God's blessing, James.

Yes and as I said, and your description confirms, Necromancy is summoning of the dead. Necromancy is like um... *trys to think of good example* Well I cant think of any movie, or show off the back, but lets just say like a man gathers the bones of a dead relative, performs a ritual, and the spirit of the dead person supposedly returns to the skeleton in order to do the summoners bidding.

I really dont think Necromancy is simply talking to a dead relative or friend in Heaven. =]
As for the Scripture this may be what Martin was referring too as the OT law, that he believes dosent have effect. I PMed him about that. =]

Blessings, :HeartThrob:
Fang

Offline Sarah

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 09:11:04 PM »
Fang,

When my dad died, my mom, my brother, and myself all had a dream in which he appeared. In my dream he left a year book that he signed. It read, "I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you." It may not seem significant but it was very healing considering my relationship with him. I believe the Lord allowed that.

I see no harm in sharing your deepest wishes to God. He is our closest companion.

Love, Sarah

martincisneros

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 10:17:24 PM »
I think you're confusing necromancy with the zombie thing where they raise these bodies up by occult powers although the person's been gone for a while.  Necromancy is communication with the dead.  As far as my saying that the law didn't apply, I didn't mean the warning, I'm meant the death penalty part of it where the Old Testament gives the impression that God would want you dead for it.  It's not a matter of God not being able to protect you, but it's that gray area of whether or not you're removing yourself from God's protective boundaries.  And as I said previously, something quick is probably fine as long as it's not a habit.  Many people need closure and the Bible says that the commandments of God aren't grievous, or burdensome. 

A lot of people tend to do this anyway at funerals.  And if they weren't trying to do this, then there's genuinely never a reason to visit a grave a second time after you've already been to the funeral.  If there were a good enough reason for a second time, that doesn't erase the question mark about graves being some people's routines, either annually, monthly, or whatever.  This brings up a lot of issues about "why do we do what we do?"  We can talk about commandments all day long, but if we're doing stuff anyway, even unintentionally, then we've got to get to the bottomline of why we're doing what we're doing and listen to God about whether we're wandering into an area of land mines, spiritually.

Offline sven

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2009, 10:38:22 PM »
Quote
Do you believe through prayer it is possible to speak to someone who has died in Heaven?

no, cause i believe in soulsleep till resurection, i dont believe in "heaven" at all, and it is forbidden in Thora to "talk" with dead people.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 10:39:03 PM »
 :cloud9: Again, the point is, did we initiate the contact or did God? If God allowed it for whatever reason, that's different than us seeking the dead. I heard my mother speak plain as day, twice, as I was asleep. The second time I KNEW God allowed it to heal a "wound" in my heart pertaining to her, because even though it was her voice, the Spirit of God touched me as she spoke and I woke up sobbing over it, as He healed me. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Andromeda_Organa

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2009, 02:23:55 AM »
This is a random question that seemed to enter my mind, but I wish to hear your opinions on it. Do you believe through prayer it is possible to speak to someone who has died in Heaven? I do not mean like a living conversation, where you speak to them and they speak back, but say for instance you pray to God, and ask to say something to someone in Heaven. Do you think if you say something to them, they will hear it?

Once more just a random question that crossed my mind and I thought would be good for discussion.  :thumbsup:

Blessings. <3
x_Fang_x
I believe so. Joan of Arc talked to saints.

Fang_Diachi

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2009, 05:32:38 AM »
This is a random question that seemed to enter my mind, but I wish to hear your opinions on it. Do you believe through prayer it is possible to speak to someone who has died in Heaven? I do not mean like a living conversation, where you speak to them and they speak back, but say for instance you pray to God, and ask to say something to someone in Heaven. Do you think if you say something to them, they will hear it?

Once more just a random question that crossed my mind and I thought would be good for discussion.  :thumbsup:

Blessings. <3
x_Fang_x
I believe so. Joan of Arc talked to saints.

Hmm... ive never heard of this.

Where can it be found?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Speaking to Heavenly Bodies... possible or not?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2009, 06:03:00 PM »
New Testament passages sort a warn us against the worshiping of angels which for me can also be loved ones passed on . . .at the same time, Hebrews 11 and the beginning of 12 explains that we are encompassed by those that have gone on before us and they are cheering us on to reach the goal set before us.  I think it may be like many other things spiritual . . .spirit can see you, but you can't see spirit.  The best answer for me is to simply pursue Christ.  If you see other things, don't let them distract you from the source of life.  No harm, no foul.