Author Topic: The millennium  (Read 700 times)

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Diane

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The millennium
« on: June 25, 2008, 06:49:06 PM »
So, only if you believe in a premillenial view of Bible prophecy that says that Jesus could come back at any second and everything will immediately go to hell either immediately afterwards or slightly before -- only in that kind of context would St. Paul's comments in 1Corinthians chapter 7 be all of that relevant about "it's better not to marry, unless you're going to be driven to distraction by the opposite sex!"  It's a timeless truth in one sense, but a more practical truth only in that setting. 

My belief is that "and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" refers to those who are now seated with Christ Jesus and will reign with him for a long period of time between the first and second coming.  It is the period of time when the prayer "your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" is being answered; when the New Jerusalem is in process of coming to earth.  At the second coming, those who are not yet seated with Christ will come alive and be saved as through fire.

That view makes Paul's comments in 1 Cor 7 very relevant to me.  I am leaning into the kingdom with my whole being.  I yearn to be a witness to all those around me who are in distress because they don't know the true character and nature of God.

martincisneros

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 11:37:51 PM »
1Corinthians 7 essentially says that it's best to stay as you were when you were first called by the Lord.  He says that if you were single, it's best to stay single; if you were married, it's best to stay married.  But then he goes on to say, but if a single person marries someone in the Lord, they're not sinning.  And if someone divorced remarries someone in the Lord, then they're not sinning either.  He said that those that are single are free to keep their focus on the Lord, while those that are married are obligated to the world with how to please their spouse.  King James and a few other translations insert some things into the translation about a father giving up his daughter, but that's not in the Greek.  God only knows how many children have been oppressed in a Western cultural setting with fathers, and particularly from wealthier families, trying to do the arranged marriage thing. 

St. Paul said that it was absolutely against his will to burden us about these things, but he was concerned about our living a life of peace and was sharing things both from the Lord and from his own opinion about things based upon what was immediately on the horizon for their world.  Some of the better translations like Scarlett's and the Concordant Literal will simply leave it as a discussion over one's own virginity and whether or not one has power to abstain from marital bonds rather than inserting the idea of arranged marriages into the passage.  St. Paul was basically echoing Jesus parables about being found faithful, at whatever one had put one's hands to, when He comes.  I don't find anything in the chapter particularly encouraging divorce, but St. Paul does say that if an unbeliever wishes to depart, then let 'em depart because you're not under any obligations under those circumstances other than to keep the peace. 

The whole chapter is essentially a call to peace and faithfulness in whatever station one fills in life.  This chapter goes along with the following chapter about not using your liberty in a way that's injurous to another believer.  In the 8th chapter he uses the illustration about pagan temples, but you could apply the same truth to the previous chapter as well about not just walking on someone because you're demanding that your time belong only to the Lord.  Paul uses his own ministry as an illustration of this kind of faithfulness that we're each called to in the 9th chapter, and then in the 10th chapter he uses Israel as an example of what not to do with regards to tempting the Lord, and as a call to not do any injury to the conscience of a brother, sister, or one could say that a spouse would likewise be understood in the context of the letter when he got to that point. 

He said he pleased in all things so that he'd be an instrument for the salvation and sanctification of others.  The 11th chapter gets into a very controversial passage, that the KJV actually translates correctly that "if anyone seems to be contentious with the headcovering thing -- we have absolutely no such tradition and neither do the Churches of God."  And I'm sure that the marital chapter of 1Corinthians chapter 7 was an understood chapter in St. Paul's mind when he was talking about not rightly discerning the Lord's body over the bread and the cup, but where people were eating and drinking condemnation to themselves, with being gluttenous and drunken, and also in how they were treating others like crap.  He said that the Lord will step in with judgment when there's that continual abuse of our relationships, our bodies, the consciences of others, and of the ministries that God places in our lives as he goes on to explain with the 12th through the 14th chapters. 

The whole book of 1Corinthians seems to revolve around the 7th chapter, because he deals with lawsuits among believers and horrendous sexual immorality in the 5th and 6th chapters.  And these things concerning being faithful to that place that one was at when the Lord called one -- to the best of one's ability, while at the same time doing absolutely everything to keep the peace even if that means letting an unbeliever walk out on you -- all of this seems to be explained to us as the wisdom taught by the Holy Spirit in the first 4 chapters of 1Corinthians.  He sincerely wishes that that Church did reign as Kings where these matters were concerned so that he and the other Apostles would reign as Kings right alongside of them in Christ. 

Read together and carefully pondered, one could almost say that the spiritual warfare accomplished through the 7th chapter in being faithful as either a single or a married person is a part of the spiritual pressure through which Jesus Christ is subduing and reconciling all things in 1Corinthians 15.  There seems to be a modicrum of corroboration in St. Peter's epistles when he exhorts one towards all marital fidelity and peacefulness for the sake of the angels -- those at work in your behalf, and also for the sake of those that are still being subdued and reconciled per Colossians 1:15-20.

The thousand years that precedes the coming of Christ is out in front of us, during which we live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.  And so many think of that life and reign as being exclusively about preaching, rebuking sin, and commanding repentance.  While those have their place, it comes back down to the basics of the 1Corinthians chapter 7 life of walking as the image of Jesus Christ where each of our relationships are concerned.  God's shared victory in history is a victory of and through relationships and not just some supernatural monarchial whatever that puts light against darkness as though there were genuinely any kind of contest between the two and as though we were in the middle of some Dungeons and Dragons game/battle for all of Creation.  The victory was won 2000 years ago, and 1Corinthians 7 is the Spirit of Christ imploring us to allow Him to reveal that through our relationships through our commitment to be a living epistle, known and read of our spouses for their edification, comfort, and sanctification -- no matter what happens in the world; even if absolutely everything else seems to burn up in Gehenna.

Things are going to happen in this world and in relation to this world's system, but the victory of the Cross is a victory not just for each individual, but for each relationship because what is each individual without each of the relationships of their lives?  In addition to being all that they can be as the Holy Spirit takes progressive custody of each level of their inmost thoughts and expressions and reveals Jesus Christ to the world through them.  In what I said, I wasn't disputing the depth and value of the 7th chapter of 1Corinthians for our lives.  It's just hard to say everything everytime without just posting an impossibly large book each time.  Particularly when there were other things that the other discussion board thread was about.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 07:16:37 AM »
The promised mercy unto 1,000 generations to Abraham and in the Psalms leaves us with about 36,000 or 37,000 years ahead of us at this point if the most likely figure of 40 years represents a generation.  If the next 1,000 years is the expected Sabbath 7th in a series and it is what has been referred to as The Millenium(s) (actually plural in the Greek) and our 1,000 year lifespans which we had before The Great Deluge are restored as suggested in Isaiah, for instance, (possibly because of the rule of the Holy ones of El-Elyon who have entered into the fufillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, having put on incorruptible immmortality,) then, there could be more than 2 1/2 million years to The Milleniums.  This is because our present lifespan is based on the 120 promised when we came off of the ark and 40 years is 1/3rd of that.  1/3rd of 1,000 is 333 years, an adjusted "generation."  You do the math.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 12:12:00 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

martincisneros

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 09:02:40 AM »
On the plurality of the "thousand" years in the Greek, that's a reference to each of the years that make up the thousand years and not an indication of multiple thousands of years, although the possibility of it being nonliteral and being as you've said isn't touched with that clarification about the Greek.  I'm not aware of a single usage of "thousand" in the Scriptures that necessitates it being strictly just a thousand.  At least a thousand, probably.  It's not a reference to a very very eventful century or five hundred year span, though some Postmillenialists have taken it that far in their assertion of a nonliteral thousand year time period.  It could be an additional reference to the "ages of ages" of Revelation 22:5.  But ages of ages is less precise.  It can span a generation or two (if even that), as might be indicated by the two "forever and ever" judgments in Isaiah 34.  But at the same time, Jesus reigns to the ages of ages which is from His first coming to the recovery of the very last prodigal, per 1Corinthians 15:28.  "Thousand years" doesn't have the limitation to me that "ages of ages" could be liable for. 

Under the redemption and regeneration of the Blood of Christ and empowerment of the Holy Spirit, we can live as long as we'd like in these bodies, provided that we were single-minded and holding to all of the promises of longevity in the Scriptures.  The fact that Christians usually don't live much longer than the wicked isn't an indication that they haven't been able to.  Lack of knowledge or this religious thing about abandoning the world to the devil in favor of a selfish retreat to Paradise is more to blame.  The epistle of James says not to presume, but to persue the will of God.  Most Christians just usually never ask to be made into a sign and a wonder in the earth in the realm of longevity.  We've got a better covenant established upon better promises than what Methusalah had with our heavenly Father.  Most Christians don't even persue the level of health that's available to them through the finished work of Christ, so that's one of the reasons on why they're usually evicted from the earth by the curse.  It's amazing, but Christians really do put a lot of faith in the degenerative process in this world rather than in the moment by moment regenerative processes of the Word and the Spirit of Jesus's High Priesthood. 

I'm in absolute total rebellion to this world.  If I ever die sick (which there have been a couple of close calls this year), I'll be screaming as I'm passing through the portals of heaven "BY HIS STRIPES I WAS HEALED!!!!!!"  I'll never again submit to this crap that surrounds me in this world.  I'm not saying that things have always been or will ever be totally peachy in this world, but Jesus Christ wants us in rebellion to stuff other than His finished work and the will of His Father.  We have to keep His Word.  We have to obey the Holy Spirit. 

We have to love one another joyfully and with all of our hearts and consciences.  But I look at everything that came in through Adam's disobedience and with regards to it's entrance into my life a John Wayne quote comes to mind, as I look at the promises of the Word.  So, I just look at the curse around me saying, "THAT'LL BE THE DAY!"  To me, reigning with Christ isn't a game, an intellectual puzzle, an academic theory, or "someday."  It's a moment by moment dying with Jesus Christ to all that the first Adam ever imposed upon me through his gluttony.  It's a laying down of my word for His.

Interesting how you said 2 1/2 million years, reFORMer.  I was personally PLANNING on being here for about a million years in this body, continually regenerating like a hydra and certain types of jellyfish through some things that the Holy Spirit's been showing me in the Word about an anti-aging application of the Word over the last 20 years.  I'm here.  Contrary to popular Christian belief, according to the last couple of chapters of Revelation and John chapter 17, this world is my home and not some heavenly abode -- though I'm to forever challenge anything not in line with the finished work of Jesus Christ: sinners until they repent and embrace His Lordship; sickness until it departs; poverty until it's swallowed up by life and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, etc.  I'm here to stay even if my heavenly Father has to pick up a bunch of farmers right up in mid-air and yell in their faces "STOP POISONING MY BOY!!!!!!" with all of the things that they pour on food for shelf life, appearance's sake, water retention, etc.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2008, 04:58:54 AM »
If I just mention something and have to correct my self in conversation it isn't as much of a problem as putting it in print on the internet, though I often tend to approach it as casually.  It's not as ephemeral as the spoken word (though some would argue for neverending repercussions to anything we do or say.)  I don't know on what basis I was calculating a few years ago and come up a number larger than  2 1/2 million.  While it seems similar to 10 times (2,999,700) the corrected result below, I would have remembered that as "almost 3 million.  The same goes for the results from 35,000 years (2,916,375) which I'd round off as nearly 3 million.  I was calculating this together with another brother so when he gets back to me maybe he'll remember on what basis we arrived at that figure.

If a literal 1,000 years (for training the new immortals) is subtracted from the remaining years at 40 year long generations we have 35,000 to 36,000 years left with that length of generations.  But, as I suggested, for those still being born of flesh to again have a day as 1,000 years to live (during which they are expected to normally enter into the feast of Tabernacles under the immortals tutelage) then their 1/3 lifespan generation would be 333 years.  To render out the number of generations, 36,000 years divided by 40 for each generation gives us 900 generations remaining.  Multiply that by 333.3 and the result is 299,970 years for a possible last culminating eon in which I suppose Adamic humans would still be born.

What has been important to me about this is a minimum of 36,000 or 37,000 years yet ahead to as much as 300,000 (rounded off) years ahead of us from now is never mentioned by the any minute rapturists who expect the end of human history to be in about another 1,000 years from now where they place the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium.  Every bit of Bible that can be brought to bear on bringing down false eschatology I want in my arsenal.  If it's wrong about what's nearer in the future (and they are) then it enhances the argument against the lies about the distant future.

(Does anyone know if it's appropriate to differentiate between near and far term eschatology by calling those things pertaining to the close of this age "eschatology" and what is most distant in time as "teleology?")
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 05:11:42 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline reFORMer

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 06:52:04 AM »
(You may feel differently about Europe if you go and read "Last Days Overview.")  I thought I wrote about this previously here, but grew tired of reviewing my posts trying to find it, deciding to do a new speedy mention.  I'm going to be very very brief.  This is because it is better explained, though a quick read, at where I learned it.  Here's the link:

http://www.christianmedianetwork.com/lastdays.html


Daniel 2 has the image with the head of gold vision.  I believe those kingdoms came and went and that part of the prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus in His coming to be crucified and raise from the dead 2,000 years ago.  He was, "The stone cut out without hands which smote the image upon his feet..." which was the Roman Empire (Dan 2:34,) and this stone, "...became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." (Dan 2:35)  We're still experiencing this mountain filling up the whole earth.

An angel tells Daniel that "these great beasts which are four are four kings which shall rise out of the earth."  Racial dispensationalism makes the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 to be a parallel of the 4 kingdoms referred to in the image of Daniel 2.  The decisive thing is the placement of Israel in these two sets of kingdoms.  The image had to do with the destruction of Israel and the 4 beasts with it's restoration.

The 1st beast was a like a lion that had the wings of an eagle (United Kingdom;) the 2nd beast was a bear described as having "three ribs in the mouth of it" (Soviet Union;) and the 3rd beast was a leopard or panther with 4 heads (Hitler's Germany) and the fourth beast was described as "...dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth...and it had ten horns.".

Between Hitler's death in 1945 and the formation of the state of Israel in 1948 is when the fourth beast would have to be born to keep true to the parallels with the image with the head of gold.  The United Nations is the only posibility.  It takes a while for it to mature, which is part of what the 10 horns signify.  Horns also represent power.  This is not brought out by the author James Lloyd; but, I think the horns may signify members states having nuclear weapons.

These two visions are most significant because they pertain to the manifestation of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, and the salvation history of the entire human race.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 06:57:09 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: The millennium
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2008, 06:36:46 PM »
Quote
"The stone cut out without hands which smote the image upon his feet..." which was the Roman Empire (Dan 2:34,) and this stone, "...became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." (Dan 2:35)  We're still experiencing this mountain filling up the whole earth.


Yes the stone is Christ and all those who are also Christ--on this rock I will build my church.  The corrupt system of satan cannot co-exist with the mind of Christ because truth will not allow lies, nor light allow darkness.  Corruption depends on darkness, lies, and those who would go along with them because all their deeds were evil.

I see this in a very practical way these days.  This is talking about life on this earth.  What did Jesus do in his walk?  He told the truth--about everything.  Lies cannot withstand truth, nor darkness light.


John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 06:38:46 PM by Molly »