Author Topic: relating to other christians  (Read 1850 times)

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NinjaWizards777

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relating to other christians
« on: July 30, 2009, 08:39:47 AM »
so even sometime before I opened up to universalism (and became to slowly believe it) I found it was getting hard to relate to other Christians. Now that im a "heretic" its even harder, because I dont get fellowship...I just get told how I am wrong and how I better shape up and read my bible. Not every "ETer" is like that, my mom I dont think has made up her mind either way but she listens and doesnt condemn me.

Ive grown very disallusioned with church and just the whole manmade system we have of chrsitianity and all its faulty doctrines like eternal punishment, and half baked things like "free" will. I feel its good to recognize these things and follow what God is showing me, but at the same time I want to be humble, just as I was when I was open to both the ET and UR arguments. I want to express myself I dont feel I should be silent about my beleifs, at the same time I dont know how to have fellowship and I dont think the answer is sectioning myself off with just those who believe like me (where I live that doesnt even exist anyway, i found one universalist in the one church I go to but we dont get to talk much because hes kindof in the closet so to speak lol).

I guess Im just not sure what I should do, or even what God wants me to do. I go to church and its just...not encouraging...its just a bunch fo people pretending to have it all togehter and agreeing with doctrines that may or may not make sense just to not upset the "apple cart". its so fake to me.

Maybe Im throwing too many blanket statements out here...I dont think ETers are bad...I think and know they love God too and are just trying to follow what they think is true and the institution called Church is doing many wonderful things but I just...dont feel right just doing the motions that I dont beleive in i guess??

idk...hard to explain... especially when Im beat dead tired and cant even see what im typing right now

Tim B

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 09:47:36 AM »
Well, I don't even go to church. I do get fellowship, but to be honest, most of it's not with most of my friends that are Christians (although some fellowship is). Most of my fellowship comes from my parents (my mom believes in UR and my dad has no problem with the idea and more or less believes it, or, is beginning to believe it). I also have fellowship with friends of my parents. I have some fellowship through my brother, I suppose, but not so much, especially because he believes in ET. My sister believes in UR so I get to talk to her. lol And one of my friends is a Christian and more or less believes in UR and/or lack of ET too, so sometimes I can talk to her. My uncle also tends to lean towards UR, and my aunt says the idea makes sense, and my cousin... well, she's open to the idea. So I get to express my beliefs with some of these guys.

But yeah, I can relate to the whole not liking church thing. I went for a while, but had problems being real with people, and also felt like they put on the "I'm-OK-mask" too (like I tended to do). I also got bored and annoyed on how the preacher would talk about things changing, or how he wanted the church to change for the better, and grow in Christ, but every Sunday it felt just like it was before. No change. Just boredom and fakeness. So I left. Besides, I get closer to God by listening to music, or seeing beauty, or hanging out with my friends (even non-Christian friends)!! In fact, God just seems to be in a lot of things for me (but at church is one of the least places I find Him).


Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 11:43:48 AM »


Ninja, "who" is this that says you need to "do"?

Just BE.

Are you becoming "GOD's" Inheritance?


Where do you go to church? Mt. Zion? With the "spirits" of JUST
MEN  made perfect?

How was the service today? ha



Did God say "Come up hither?"


NinjaWizards777

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2009, 04:48:45 AM »
its just frustrating...

all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

ugh

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 05:06:48 AM »
its just frustrating...

all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

ugh


I have no cut and dry answer, I am still going through pains of change, I have no fellowship in an "in person" manner myself.  What I know is this, even if it is only my own experience.

It took me 3 years to decide that I had no place in the organized church system.  Once I left I felt all alone spiritually,  I have a great wife and boys, but they do not share my views in the sense that we can sit and fellowship. 

I contemplated going back so I went and visited a church only to hear a sermon on funding a ministry overseas so that we could help prevent 35,000 people a day from pouring into eternal hell since never hearing the name of Christ damned people to it.  I make no joke, I was literally sick to my stomach that a church allows people to take a position of authority speaking of such a vile image of God.

That was enough, the spiritual void was filled immediatly with the knowledge that I was heading in the right direction and whatever I felt I was lacking God would just have to provide the way.

And he actually did, I have teo friends in my life that are encouraging in my views while they hold similar but very different perspectives.  It proved to me that God provides what we need most.

All I can say is hang in there, if you really need fellowship then contemplate going back into church for that, it is not shameful to do so,  as I was willing to do the same thing and took that step only to find an immediate healing over it when I did.


Offline sparrow

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 05:11:05 AM »
its just frustrating...

all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

ugh

I know what you are saying..
Just remember that everyone out there in the world is your brother or your sister.

How can you help others? By showing them love.
You don't have to necessarily try to convert others.
It's putting HIS love out there on display.
That is what this world needs.
Not the kind of love that the world offers, conditional love..
but the kind of love that HE offers, agape love. unconditional love.
Show people that it EXISTS.
Let HIM shine through YOU.
It's not so much about "converting". That's the institutional church way..
Not our way.
God will draw who He will draw.
It's not up to us.

Share your truth when you feel led to.

Don't be frustrated.
I understand where you're coming from.
But just remember that He is in control.
We just need to show the world what HIS love looks like..
The rest will fall into place, in HIS timing, in HIS way.
Does that make sense?
I hope so.

This is just where I am right now and I thought I'd share.
peace to ya..
 :HeartThrob:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline jabcat

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2009, 05:18:22 AM »

Offline sparrow

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2009, 05:21:20 AM »
jabcat!  :laughing7:
you're funny...

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

NinjaWizards777

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2009, 06:38:45 AM »
its just frustrating...

all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

ugh

I know what you are saying..
Just remember that everyone out there in the world is your brother or your sister.

How can you help others? By showing them love.
You don't have to necessarily try to convert others.
It's putting HIS love out there on display.
That is what this world needs.
Not the kind of love that the world offers, conditional love..
but the kind of love that HE offers, agape love. unconditional love.
Show people that it EXISTS.
Let HIM shine through YOU.
It's not so much about "converting". That's the institutional church way..
Not our way.
God will draw who He will draw.
It's not up to us.

Share your truth when you feel led to.

Don't be frustrated.
I understand where you're coming from.
But just remember that He is in control.
We just need to show the world what HIS love looks like..
The rest will fall into place, in HIS timing, in HIS way.
Does that make sense?
I hope so.

This is just where I am right now and I thought I'd share.
peace to ya..
 :HeartThrob:

I know what youre saying and youre right. I guess I just feel torn between wanting to function and show love outside of the constrains of the church...while at the same time not alienating myself from the church or acting like Im somehow superior to them doctrinally. I really struggle with the last part...like Im respectful of other peoples positions, and I love those people and dont doubt God in them,  but like I get so frustrated when people try so hard to defend things that are simply undefendable. And to suggest any other view automatcily means youre questioning God and that your cherry picking scripture, no if and buts about it. and that makes me so furious. I dont try to...I just do. I get stressed very easily unfortunitley. I know that it is up to God to show people what is true, and I for sure dont have things all figured out...I feel I am just starting to figure anything actually. I dont want to pretend like I have a bigger grasp of the truth than typical christians, but thats the way I feel? lol

Im a mess haha


Offline jabcat

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2009, 06:45:28 AM »

Offline sparrow

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 06:48:31 AM »
its just frustrating...

all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

ugh

I know what you are saying..
Just remember that everyone out there in the world is your brother or your sister.

How can you help others? By showing them love.
You don't have to necessarily try to convert others.
It's putting HIS love out there on display.
That is what this world needs.
Not the kind of love that the world offers, conditional love..
but the kind of love that HE offers, agape love. unconditional love.
Show people that it EXISTS.
Let HIM shine through YOU.
It's not so much about "converting". That's the institutional church way..
Not our way.
God will draw who He will draw.
It's not up to us.

Share your truth when you feel led to.

Don't be frustrated.
I understand where you're coming from.
But just remember that He is in control.
We just need to show the world what HIS love looks like..
The rest will fall into place, in HIS timing, in HIS way.
Does that make sense?
I hope so.

This is just where I am right now and I thought I'd share.
peace to ya..
 :HeartThrob:

I know what youre saying and youre right. I guess I just feel torn between wanting to function and show love outside of the constrains of the church...while at the same time not alienating myself from the church or acting like Im somehow superior to them doctrinally. I really struggle with the last part...like Im respectful of other peoples positions, and I love those people and dont doubt God in them,  but like I get so frustrated when people try so hard to defend things that are simply undefendable. And to suggest any other view automatcily means youre questioning God and that your cherry picking scripture, no if and buts about it. and that makes me so furious. I dont try to...I just do. I get stressed very easily unfortunitley. I know that it is up to God to show people what is true, and I for sure dont have things all figured out...I feel I am just starting to figure anything actually. I dont want to pretend like I have a bigger grasp of the truth than typical christians, but thats the way I feel? lol

Im a mess haha



You're not a mess... I totally understand what you're saying.
I never really went to church so I'm not sure what to tell you about that part of it.
I'm sure others have some good advice for you.
Hang in there..
At least we have the internet and can connect with others that believe as we do.
That's pretty cool, at least. :happy3:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 07:36:58 AM »
all but ONE person that I know that believes anything like I do is on the internet, how can I have any type of fellowship that way? How am I supposed to help others  when I dont believe in the church system?

Why does helping always has to relate religious affairs?
Helping is also visting an old lady that never gets visits.
That's just one of the zillion examples I'm sure you can think of yourself.
I admit that IMO works are of importance, and I'm fully aware not all see things that way.
I'm just a fool that thinks that God smiles toward any caring heart. Whatever religion (or lack of it) :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 07:38:18 AM »
But I guess the keyword wasn't 'help' but having 'fellowship'.
Jesus said a prophet isn't taken seriously in his own town. Perhaps that can/may be extrapolated to your situation?
A true believer has no friends (his own town) to talk with.
This forum is the town far away. :2c:
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 08:39:16 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sparrow

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2009, 07:42:26 AM »
Hey White Wings...

Good posts! I totally agree with what you've said.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2009, 09:01:07 AM »
So many gathering in steeple houses have much more serious problems than a demonic eschatology.  Yes, its serious to not understand the basics of what the King James calls "eternal judgment," (cp., Hebrews 5:12-6:3) meaning, "Setting things right appropriate to the period of time in which they occur."  But, for almost all of them without exception, they only think of eachy of us as individuals as well as Jesus with us by the Holy Spirit.  They can't seem to be brought to think of her, God's girlfriend, the Eclessia.  It happens when two or more gather in His name; but, when most gather, the Church isn't on the program.  So many say God is omnipotent and omniscient; but, when they gather together, they must have another mediator, a man with a title of honor from other men to help God out.  He says who can do what and what to believe or not believe.  This other man is there to control things instead of the Holy Spirit being in charge of His own body.  These ones often called "leaders" never really lead others anywhere.  They keep things the same, perpetuating their own positions. It is "gentile authority" rather than Divine authority.  Jesus speaks to the matter directly and clearly enough.

Now He said to them, "The kings of the nations are lording it over them, and those exercising authority over them are called benefactors.  Yet you are not thus, but let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and he who is leading as he who is serving." (Luke 22:25-26, CLT)  Jesus defines His disciples as not ruling over the others.  Gentiles say they benefit from their rulers; but, there's no hierarchy among those who are Jesus's disciples, period. "You:  not so."  We're simply working other lords when any but Jesus Himself rules over each of us directly.  This is not about civil authority among the nations (gentiles.)  No problem with the boss in his office in the workplace.  We honor the President in his Whitehouse.  It's as the Church there's little benefit from external or legal rule.  When a bunch of youngsters come running in, because I'm so big I can see over (episkopos) them, where they're going, what they're doing.  Being younger they give me authority.  "Now Johnny, stop that.  All of you, quiet down.  Cheryl, go find your mother.  Everybody just take it back outside."  The younger give authority to me.  It is how much authority in the kingdom of God we are able to give to others that determines our status in it.  The more you are servant, the greater you are in the kingdom.

"And the greatest is slave of all."  This makes clear the apostle is not subecting all the other "ministers" to himself.  "Ministry" may be translated "slavery"  Scripture says of, "Three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear," the first listed is, "A servant when he reigneth..." (cp., Proverbs 30:21-22)  Whenever you can look up and see the bottom of another man's boot, you can be sure it isn't the kingdom of God.  God didn't make anyman to be a "bootlicker."

It's not how much I can bring healing or prophecy and the rest that determines my greatness.  The measure of ministry is how much of the image of Christ, displaying all he is and does, I bring forth in others.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 09:07:06 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: relating to other christians
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2009, 02:13:52 PM »



Isa 49:7 -
Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

When is it that "kings shall see thee?"  and ARISE?   
For that which hath NOT been told them, shall be declared.

When people see a "marred image" of HIM, perhaps they do not
recognize that you are in Truth.....but that which hath not been
told them shall be, and they shall "shut their mouths" ....since we
were "raised with HIM" we shall "arise" when He brings this Word
to pass in our last days!

14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Ec 8:9 -
All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.
Ec 9:13 -
This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
Ec 10:5 -
There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, as an error which proceedeth from the ruler:
Ec 10:7 - 
I have seen servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth.

Who is compassed about with so great a witness?
Are not the spirits of just men made perfect that
dwell as the host of heaven on Mt. Zion, CLOUDS?
God's people!!
Why leap ye, ye high hills, "this" is the "hill" He hath chosen!!
He shall dwell there! Stay put, not move back and forth! No,
it is "man" that moves. Not HIM! Forgetting those things that
are behind, let us go on.......move as He did.
We are called to follow the Lord who "moved" from
Mt. Siani to Mt. Zion. THIS, Mt. Zion, is the "hill"
HE chose! Forever! He dwells there! There, HE is
Judge. What "is" His judgement? Judgement unto
LIFE! Remember, He nailed that which was contrary
to us OUT of the WAY? ?? His Judgements are unto
LIFE! LIFE! He received a commandment from the
Father, and He said "I KNOW that it's LIFE everlasting."
To them that LOOK for HIM, He will appear the second
time without sin........without sin. With LIFE! With
LIFE that swallows "death." Not the ministration of
"death." But LIFE!
In that day, ye shall "know" I am in you, and you are
in me!!!! WITHIN! You have been introduced to HIM
from the beginning of "your" journey to HIM who lives
"within" you! He is the ONLY witness, you are to follow.
His Own bear witness, for they have been with Him
from the beginning!
He putteth His Own sheep forward,
for He goeth "before" them! Nothing "new" about that,
He has lead some before us, remember Elijah?
Remember Elisha? It is only "new" to US!
And He shall come like a thief!
And YE Brethren, ye "know" He shall come like a thief.
So some KNOW. And others are learning the same truth.
Why else was it written,
"and YE brethren ye know perfectly that He shall come
as a thief?" Of what shall He rob us? He shall rob us
of the realm that exhalts itself according to a "law" .......for no flesh and
blood shall enter where the GLORY all belongs to HIM! lest the GLORY
be given to "another."
HE is a Gift! Give HIM the glory!
He leads us OUT of the first realm, and into, and will
completely lead us into, where HE entered. A place of
LIFE! Where CLOUDS of GREAT WITNESS shall compass
us exactly as they have compassed others before us.
Many things shall be revealed to us at the Revelation of
Christ. Christ IN you, the hope of glory! Because Christ
entereth GLORY! shall not the Christ "in you" be
revealed!???

Trust in the Lord, lean not to your own understanding, believe the
things you have heard from HIM......they will forever bloom, there
shall be no ceasing of the revealing of Truth, lies cannot compass it
for it is GREATER and He shall shout it from the rooftops within you.
When we seek HIM, He answers. Methinks we are like when Peter
got out of prison, we were so used to the prison, we just could not
get our sandles on and the angel had to prod us.  Methinks we are
like the people who stood around observing Paul when he shook the
viper off in the fire of God, because we were so "used" to watching
"death" that we could not believe that someone had escaped it.
We are like those that sailed with him, we watched as the hinder
part of the ship got broken up, and the "forepart" stuck! 

This is my commandment that ye heard "from the beginning" ......
and it is the "same" in the end.  Love endures the shipwreck.  Love
endures the prison.  Love endures and now abideth LOVE! In the pain
of "this" life........LOVE abides for God is Love!